Upgrading from Epson 8100 - Options? - AVS Forum
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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After living with the Epson 8100 for roughly 5-6 months, I think it's time to move on.

The Epson does put out a very nice picture for the price and I did enjoyed, however 2 things that I just can't stand.

1 - Motion effect. I had the Optoma HD65 prior and I didn't experience any RBE from a DLP projector. However, with LCD, the motion effect (bluriness) does annoy me most times with fast moving action flicks.

2 - Lumens. Although the Epson 8100 is rated at 1800 lumens, I was never able to measure more than 10ftL on a 90" gray screen in Cinema mode. I had to used a white screen to get a decent brightness. And I do like gray screens.

So, my next projector is?

- Must be DLP
- Has high lumens
- Under $1k

Seems that the Viewsonic Pro 8200 fits the bill perfectly. Next up is the HC4000 at over $1k with 1300 lumens.

Am I missing anything else?

Btw, I do have a light controlled room.

Thanks,
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:58 AM
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hi smokarz
That about sums it up, pro8200 for 700-799 , then next up the mits 4000 for 1,100. And yeah the mits is 700 lumens less than the pro8200. 2 year warranty for mits, 3 years for pro8200. Everybody is different, but the pro8200 has been Perfect for me. No RBE, low lag, Light Cannon. Now Coderguy and others seem to think spending 400 dollars more the mits 4000 is worth it. But Coderguy did buy the mits hc4000 and sold his because the RBE bothered him too much. I don't know if you are sensitive the Rainbow Effect or not, at least with the pro8200 you will not have to worry about that. Coderguy bought the pro8200 and has over 2,500 hours on it and he reports the RBE doesn't bother him. Some people put a filter on the pro8200 for first 500 hours if they are in batcave, and someone else shared how "hood" helped with getting the blacker blacks. Look in pro8200 forum room for details about that.

Personally, I would rather have 400 dollars in my pocket, and longer bulb hours, longer warranty, etc. Maybe if you get it from amazon, and it didn't work for you, return it under 30 days and get the mits hc4000 or some other model.
Maybe others will share their experiences with other models you can also research, if you are not bothered with RBE, maybe the mits hc4000 would be the right one for you , if 400 dollars can buy you a slightly blacker black, don't know. You got the epson8100 for the blacker black, so, hard call to make, right?
Good luck bro.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input rgtaa.

Anyone has experience with the Acer projector?
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So, I've been playing with the projector calculators and I don't think DLP projectors is going to work in my room.

I want a 110" screen and ceiling mount the projector.

This means I need at least an 8.5 ft ceiling.

My room is in the basement with a 7ft ceiling. And I don't want my screen on the floor.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:53 PM
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I don't think many of us have 8-9 foot ceilings. Mine is about 7 ft. You got options, you could move closer to screen and use more zoom or move further back and use less zoom to get same image size. You could tilt the unit, many of us do that. You could experiment and use back wall and have PJ 4-5 foot from floor, behind where you are seating, so your head doesn't show on screen . I have used my PJ in all types of rooms, and either moved the pj closer to screen or flipped the pj over , or right side up, higher or lower until I found the right spot. You could get ceiling mount extension that comes down a few feet and use it right side up, too. If you have only one place to put it, you might need lens shift, but if it's your room, "make it work", experiment and do whatever it takes to make it work. That is how I think about it. smile.gif
Hopefully over the next few days, maybe the gang will offer you other options on PJ's to get, think about price range. 800 or 1,300 ... because at those 2 price points you got different options. smile.gif
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:04 PM
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The Optoma hd20 and Optoma hd33 have less offset.

For the Optoma hd33 (and it has 3D) the minimum ceiling height is technically 7 feet 8 inches with a flush mount when the bottom of your screen is 24" from the floor, but you can wiggle that down to about 7 feet if you are willing to put the screen about 18" to 20" above the floor and are willing to let the black border of your screen absorb a tiny bit of trapezoid error (really small). The Optoma hd33 runs a tad more than the Mits hc4000 and might be pushing your budget a bit. You do have to watch out on the ZOOM range with the Optomas as they have more limited throw placement capabilities than the others mentioned.

The other choice you have is the Benq w6000 (no 3d), this would be perfect as you can mount the PJ flush to the top of the screen or in the center (or anywhere within the vertical dimensions of the screen) but the current prices are a bit more ($1299 for a refurb from the Benq store). None of these projectors will really give you a significant improvement in black levels over the Epson 8100, although the w6000 might be a tad better depending on throw distance and all that.


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Old 09-13-2012, 03:57 PM
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Coderguy, in the past, the epson 8100 you considered pretty good, he seems to think to lacks "punch" , not bright enough for him, do you think the mits4000 would work for him, I'm not sure. He says he wants more lumens than 8100. Could it be his bulb was getting old, I don't know myself. It does sound like he is looking for brighter image. That motion effect is that normal on the epson 8100? Do the newer epson LCD models have that motion effect problem or was that tied to the epson 8100? He had DLP in the past and liked it, so interesting situation.
Maybe he can share with us his viewing habits, don't know if he is gamer, tv sports guy, or just movie guy or a little or a lot of all of the above.
Maybe also the room size. All this info helps in getting good feedback from the guys here.
If his budget is 800 dollars , do you think the pro8200 would be good for him, given what he wrote in first post?
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey thanks guys.

The one thing I absolutely love about the Epson 8100 is the ability to put the PJ anywhere in the room with its lens shift.

Some background.

My room is about 13'x 24'. Wall color is dark gold, ceiling is dark brown so there's not a whole of light bouncing around.

The room is in the basement and totally light controlled.

I watch mainly movies, with maybe 20-30% sporting events and music videos.

I watch less than 10hrs a week. My PJ currently has less than 100hrs on the bulbs.

I bought the 8100 as a refurb, came with new bulb. I also managed to get an additional brand new bulb from Epson as part of their warranty. I switched between the two bulbs, measured and basically get the same lumen ouputs, so I don't think it's the bulb.

After I calibrated the 8100 with an iDisplay Pro 3. I measured about 8-9ftL on a gray screen. This makes it tough for viewing. Then I switch to a white screen and measured around the teens in ftL after calibration, so this seems to work better.

I currently have a ~90" white screen and looking to move onto a 110" gray screen, but I think the lumens on the Epson 8100 won't be able to put a bright enough image on this size screen.

Additionally, the motion slur is really killing it for me. I guess I am a little over sensitive with motion.

I think my next PJ is going to be a DLP, but its limited replacement flexibility is making it tough.

The Pro8200 has a great price and tons of lumens. But from my reviews, the HC4000 seems to put out a better image for movie viewing (which is my primary interest).

But the HC4000 has only 1300 lumens, I wonder if it's capable of throwing a 110 image on a gray screen.

If I had $2-$3k to spend, I'll probably look at the new models from Epson and Panny. But I am a broke dude. tongue.gif

Hope that help.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:14 PM
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I am sorry that the epson 8100 didn't work out for you, I remember how excited you were when you first got it. Hopefully you will sell at and not take a loss on it, with 2 bulbs, should be cool.

I think you laid it out really good, what you just wrote, so , I'm sure the guys will figure out something for you. I am thinking you might have to move up to the 1300 dollar and above models. You got spoiled with lens shift, you might have to loosen up a little on that feature if you are going DLP, and do some physical placement yourself. smile.gif Or get a model with lens shift.

I'm sure you looked at coderguys post, he has the coderguy top picks link in his sig , maybe look at that, and projectorreviews 2012 round up for ideas, combining the 2 sources should start you on models that might do it for you. I know the pro8200 could do 110 inch screen size no problems but it sounds like you need higher grade PJ from what you are saying. I had nothing to go by in the past, so the pro8200 is kick ass for me, Love it, and I did pick it up for 659 new last dec. , so the price was right, maybe with your epson8100 your standards got raised, but coderguy who has super high standards thinks the pro8200 for the price he paid for it super good deal too.

It comes down to can the hc4000 do a 110-120 screen with the brightness and blackness that would work for you in that room, if the epson8100 couldn't do it. Did you check the lumen comparision between epson8100 and hc4000? Maybe go into the hc4000 forum and ask those guys, or coderguy might know from the top of his head. He probably does. smile.gif

p.s. crap, I just checked the epson8100 is 1800 lumens, and in review on projectorreviews says it should do 110 in bright mode, no problems. Do you think your PJ is working right? Did you call epson or check in your epson8100 forum room. Maybe you need to exchange it, I don't know. You got 2 year warranty and what do you have to lose , if you were planning to sell it anyway? If your warranty is not tied to your name, when you sell it can the other person keep the rest of the warranty? I don't know about that, either? If the warranty is tied to you, what do you have to lose calling epson and exchanging it, right? Unless you already tried that already. ... oh yeah, you had the motion effect problem too, unless that is malfunction too. smile.gif
I've had my pro8200 on all day, 8 hours or more, I don't think you could do that with the epson8100, from what I remember reading in forum rooms. Maybe get cheap and good PJ from amazon and if it sucks for you, return it. It is your cheapest solution, and give it a few weeks to figure it out, it took me a few weeks to get it down. And 7 months until I moved back a few feet and got the "kick ass" feeling flying jets in battlefield 3. smile.gif You were used to 10 hours a week with your epson8100, but with the pro8200, you could kick the stuffing out if it, coderguy and I am, and it keeps on ticking. smile.gif
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thinking it a little more, I don't think neither the HC4000 nor the Pro8200 would work in my room well, without spending a whole lot of efforts trying to figure out placement.

The BenQ W6000 seems very attractive. It has a very small offset (~6")? And puts out a very good picture for movie according to coderguy's list and other reviews.

And of course, the newer Epson models are all very good, though they cost quite a bit more.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:03 PM
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good ,now you are getting somewhere, did you find a good price on one?
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Nope, didn't find a BenQ W6000 anywhere.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:44 AM
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yeah, that is why I asked, I couldn't either. I saw some over 2,100 dollars but I didn't check out if they were in stock or not, and figured it was not in your price range. I looked for used one and refurbs for 1,400 or so, but , it was either ebay auction or not in stock. Maybe save and get something really good , or maybe exchange your epson 8100 and see if it fixes the motion blur and lumens issue. Also, between now and xmas, I'm sure there will be good sales, remember last year. smile.gif
The optoma hd33 or acer h9500bd, might be something to look at too, for around 1,300 dollars, or get on sale. I think the optoma hd33 was on sale for around 1,000 a few weeks ago, for very brief time. Or get the epson 5010 for more of course. Not much in the 800 dollar range.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Contacting Epson to see if they can give me an exchange on the 8100.

Hopefully, they can give me credit for the purchase of a new Epson pj.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:04 PM
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WOW. I've had my Epson 8100 for a little over a year and have been very pleased with it. It's also in a light controlled basement and I project onto a 100" gray screen. I have everything at 0.....Brightness, Cont, Sat and Tint....and Color Mode at NATURAL. With Color Mode's LIVING ROOM, and DYNAMIC both brighter (but too bright for my liking), plus the ability to dial up the BRIGHTNESS itself.... I'm a little shocked that you find this projector too dim.

Not saying your wrong.....everyone's entitled to their own likes and dislikes. Just can't say I agree.....

But best of luck with your search for a newer PJ more to your liking.

Larry
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

I don't think many of us have 8-9 foot ceilings. Mine is about 7 ft. You got options, you could move closer to screen and use more zoom or move further back and use less zoom to get same image size. You could tilt the unit, many of us do that. You could experiment and use back wall and have PJ 4-5 foot from floor, behind where you are seating, so your head doesn't show on screen . I have used my PJ in all types of rooms, and either moved the pj closer to screen or flipped the pj over , or right side up, higher or lower until I found the right spot. You could get ceiling mount extension that comes down a few feet and use it right side up, too. If you have only one place to put it, you might need lens shift, but if it's your room, "make it work", experiment and do whatever it takes to make it work. That is how I think about it. smile.gif

My previous projector was an Optoma HD20 with fixed offset, and I was using it in my basement theater room which has only a 6 1/2 foot ceiling. I have a 120" screen, and the screen housing is mounted on the wall directly against the ceiling. This puts the bottom edge of the screen at 14" off the floor. My ceiling mount put the lens of the projector about 4" below the top edge of the screen, so with the fixed offset, I did have to tilt the projector up a little to get the image centered on the screen. The keystoning was very minimal, with maybe 3/4" of image spilling onto the black border at the top of each side of the screen. This was so negligable an amount that no one even noticed it, and it was not enough of a keystone to distort the image in any way. I used that projector in that setup for almost 4 years - so I wouldn't worry too much about fixed offset units.

FEEL an awesome 3D Blu-ray movie in the Frey Theater - Now with projection in glorious "FREYMAX" 3D!

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I think I trimmed down my choices.

VW Pro8200 ($700) - Need to find out how to get this to work in my room.

BenQ W7000 or Mits 7800 - Both have lenshift. Expensive (~$2000). Need to wait for these 2 to drop down in prices.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:32 PM
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Did you ever contact Epson. I have a 106' screen and my 8100 can get blindingly bright.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I did, having difficulties trying to get a replacement. Maybe I should try again.

Btw, what mode are you running?
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