Projector as a monitor - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 59 Old 09-26-2012, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

First of all, could anyone please answer the following questions:
1) How is the overall brightness regulated in lamp-based projectors? By changing the current that flows through the UHP lamp, I presume, but I'm still asking to confirm.
2) At what frequency do the micromirros of a DLP chip toggle when generating grayscales? That's a very important question.
3) What is the speed of the color wheel in BenQ W7000, ViewSonic PRO8200 and Mitsubishi HC4000?
coderguy,
That would be sensible. Do you know people who are planning to review Acer K750 and/or ViewSonic PRO9000 and compare it with BenQ W7000 that you recommend? To my [not so experienced] eye, ViewSonic PRO9000 looks like a unit with a good optical system, so I would expect it to fare good in terms of image sharpness.
I don't think all the LED models have worse optics, so perhaps it's because Laser/LED light is bluish compared to the light of a UHP lamp? Except for those who have perfect vision, people tend to perceive objects in reddish light as sharper (I do). Whatever the reason is, it's defenitely something to take into consideration.
rgtaa,
Regarding lighting conditions and distance from the screen, I would try to ajust them so that the viewing is most comfortable (I can more or less move the furniture as I see fit). The room size is about 4.7x3.3 meters.

The Acer has been reviewed by Kraine I believe in the K750 thread. He has reviewed both the H9500BD and W7000, last I read he was keen on the K750 though the H9500BD was a tad sharper. At present the H9500BD and W7000 are likely similar sharpness after each had their 1:1 pixel firmware updates.

Curious how the frequency of the mirrors in a DLP chip generating a grey scale is a important question? First time ever I have seen that question.
Though brightness can be changed by a few methods the most likely is changing of the ballast output. UHP (ARC) lights need high voltage to jump the gap creating the arc . Only way to control current is to either change voltage or change resistance. Most likely they have two taps to the transformer coil for high voltage and higher voltage.
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post #32 of 59 Old 09-26-2012, 04:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4mopar View Post

Curious how the frequency of the mirrors in a DLP chip generating a grey scale is a important question?
Flicker, especially low-frequency flicker, is believed to cause eye fatigue.
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post #33 of 59 Old 09-30-2012, 09:33 AM
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Hi Just got your PM leading me to this thread. For constantly moving video I would use an LCD based projector, For typical data I would use a DLP. I would check if you are sensitive to the RBE effect since you mentioned you have concerns for your eyesight. If you are sensitive to RBE you will be getting rid of the DLP once you get the eye fatigue and possible headaches.
BTW A DLP won't have the misconvergence issues you mentioned but what good is that if you can't watch it for too long? (Sort of like a Microsoft product feature)

With respect to the projectors Life span,, a UHP/Metal halide based projector will throw all kinds of UV light that could lead to blue panel problems but typically after 5000+ hours. Many of the panels break down prematurely because people leave them on for extended periods of time with no program material going them This give the UV light a chance to burn in to the polarizer and LCD Panels. This is similar to the reason screen saving programs were developed with the old CRT monitors. As far as I understand it the LED based projectors don't seem to have as much of an issue with UV breakdown. The Cre seems to have most of the same features that standard projectors have. The little LG's and other mini LED's as far as I know don't have a zoom and have had some people report focus troubles that develop after a burn in period that has something to do with plastic fatigue and or heat related distortion.
.
Basically. IMO The problems that develop with the LCD 's is the blue panel usually wears/fries and dust can get into the optical path and you get dust specks/blobs
The problems that develop with the DLP is the color wheel bearings wear and the chips spot and crap out.

Also of note : On some Metal halide projectors you have a economy and standard power output options. Other than that changing the light output from the ballast is not an option and only if you KNOW what you are doing can you adjust the voltage pot in the Ballast. With halide/ Lamps there is also the occasional arc jump/flicker problem. This applies to Both technologies because its an issue related to the light source.

Addressing your warranty shipping concerns. No matter what if the unit needs service you will have to ship any unit that you buy back to the manufacturer and in this day and age it takes between three and five days to get things anywhere in the world. If you choose to leave it at the place you purchased it for shipment back through THIER shipping channels all time predictions are off the table.

If you can afford it. I would go with the Cre. They seem to have worked out the earlier issues and this Hans Guy at Cre seems to take a hands on approach. I kind of get the feeling that he considers these projectors his masterpieces. Regarding your dubious Cre related comments . Some Seaguller wrote a scathing review of the Cre on Amazon a while back that was so full of crap it bordered on the absurd. The author DIDN"T own one or have any first hand experience with the unit. There are several cre and other LED projector owners you can ask who have had had real use experiance with their units that will be helpfull

FYI - I have TWO samsung 50 inch rear screen DLP's. BOTH had the EXACT same DLP Chip failure problem. EXACT!!! . It is a known defect and I have had them repaired free of charge by samsung since it was part of a class settlement suit. I know FIRST hand that this happens, I don't know if its a high heat problem that you mentioned since the lamp in these units is only 132 watts.
Don't take my word for it. Go to youtube and type in "DLP spots"

Sorry if my writings seem a bit discombobulated but I tried to touch all the points you asked about.

Hope this helps

Bohanna
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post #34 of 59 Old 10-01-2012, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for sharing the info, Bohanna. Yes, I can afford the CRE projector and would gladly choose it over DLPs, but my doubts about it are not based on the Amazon review that you mentioned. They are based on the avsforum thread about the projector, which I had completely read. Some people reported seeing misconvergence the size of several pixels on the photos posted by sellmejunk before his projector underwent repairs. Another owner stated that he had to return the projector for a refund because, and I quote, there was either too much chromatic aberration or pixel mis-registration or both. On a projector like that small fonts would be virtually unreadable and larger one would probably cause eye fatige.
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post #35 of 59 Old 10-01-2012, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

Thanks for sharing the info, Bohanna. Yes, I can afford the CRE projector and would gladly choose it over DLPs, but my doubts about it are not based on the Amazon review that you mentioned. They are based on the avsforum thread about the projector, which I had completely read. Some people reported seeing misconvergence the size of several pixels on the photos posted by sellmejunk before his projector underwent repairs. Another owner stated that he had to return the projector for a refund because, and I quote, there was either too much chromatic aberration or pixel mis-registration or both. On a projector like that small fonts would be virtually unreadable and larger one would probably cause eye fatige.


I would hope that they had the convergence issues worked out by now but I may be incorrect. Some times people have issues that are more related to their sources than they are to their projectors. For example" I get a totally different picture when using my computer as a source and I change scan rates. Some projectors handle it with no problems others go wiggy and produce slightly Ghosted images. I don't know if this applies here but I just thought I would mention it.

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post #36 of 59 Old 10-02-2012, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Misconvergence isn't something that has to be "worked out", as long as the LCD panels are precisely aligned with the prism, which is manufactured to the high standarts of quality. Apparently, this is not something that can be expected from CRE.
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post #37 of 59 Old 10-02-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
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Misconvergence isn't something that has to be "worked out", as long as the LCD panels are precisely aligned with the prism, which is manufactured to the high standarts of quality. Apparently, this is not something that can be expected from CRE.

I disagree. Aligning the panels is something that requires an aquired set of skills. Also The panels in the cre are made by epson. There is AN issue with the organic vrs the inorganic panels. But this projector doesn't have the traditional bounce around light path. The placment of the LED's and the Panels could be affected by 1/1000th of an inch for convergance purposes. Of all the projector companies Cre seems to be one of the most attentitive to its customers. If I were in the market for a relativly maintence free Projector I would look very heavily at this one. I would also have a power conditioner attached to it to avoid outside conditions that could take it down.

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post #38 of 59 Old 10-02-2012, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I disagree. Aligning the panels is something that requires an aquired set of skills.
How so? You don't think they are aligned manually, do you? Therefore, the precision of alignment depends mostly on the quality of the machinery that the manufacturer can afford.
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Of all the projector companies Cre seems to be one of the most attentitive to its customers.
Not exactly, because I sent them an email with a simple question (which models of this projector are available for purchase and what is the difference between them) five days ago and received no reply so far.
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post #39 of 59 Old 10-02-2012, 10:47 PM
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How so? You don't think they are aligned manually, do you? Therefore, the precision of alignment depends mostly on the quality of the machinery that the manufacturer can afford.
.

Yes they are aligned Manually. They may have tweeks that compensate through the service menu but the panels need to be aligned and trued to each other. I'm not sure how its done on the cre but I guessing there are probably adjusting screws around the Panels. I'll see if I can find a picture of an optical block and post it here

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post #40 of 59 Old 10-02-2012, 11:01 PM
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post #41 of 59 Old 10-02-2012, 11:04 PM
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Here is a bigger photo

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post #42 of 59 Old 10-03-2012, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, that means I was wrong. Thanks again for the information, Bohanna smile.gif What is the document that contains the page on the screenshot? Could you also post the section that deals with Optical and electrical adjustments?
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post #43 of 59 Old 10-03-2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by B-2Admirer View Post

OK, that means I was wrong. Thanks again for the information, Bohanna smile.gif What is the document that contains the page on the screenshot? Could you also post the section that deals with Optical and electrical adjustments?

Its a page from one of the Sanyo projector service manuals. Each manual and projector is a little different so there really isn't any a one size fits all section. The smart thing is to buy an actual service manual for the model you want to work on and learn some of the little tweeks. Just MAKE SURE you write down the initial data values before you change ANYTHING in the service menu so you can change it back if you need too

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post #44 of 59 Old 10-03-2012, 01:36 PM
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Along with a Sony BluRay player and two satellite dish receivers, I have a (home built) HTPC attached to an Onkyo, all feeding into a Sony VW 60 projector.

I did have an ordinary Sony DVD player, but now my HTPC does that duty. I am just waiting for the time when I can get BluRays to play in the computer.

Anyway, I do hook it up to the internet from time to time, using wireless mouse and keyboard.

The projector is LCOS and if the lamp is old, the display does get a little dim. Most of the issue is in getting the icons and backgrounds the right size or color so that I can see them easily from twelve or so feet away. It works pretty good.

Just thought I'd let you know some real world experience.
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post #45 of 59 Old 10-03-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lone Cloud View Post

Along with a Sony BluRay player and two satellite dish receivers, I have a (home built) HTPC attached to an Onkyo, all feeding into a Sony VW 60 projector.
I did have an ordinary Sony DVD player, but now my HTPC does that duty. I am just waiting for the time when I can get BluRays to play in the computer.
Anyway, I do hook it up to the internet from time to time, using wireless mouse and keyboard.
The projector is LCOS and if the lamp is old, the display does get a little dim. Most of the issue is in getting the icons and backgrounds the right size or color so that I can see them easily from twelve or so feet away. It works pretty good.
Just thought I'd let you know some real world experience.

Check into a program called stardock windowblinds, Its great for setting up a large screen because the scroll bars and other icons show up much better than the standard screen themes
do. I do a lot of video watching from emule downloads and its much easier to see what on the screen when you are going through an exteranl hard drive. If I have a 1 TB drive thats loaded with files and folders that I need to scrool through or I have to go to the file menu I can do it using one of the the window blind thems. This makes it a breeze. The little hard to see gray scroll bars are now a nice clear easy to see blue I. don't know how I ever lived with out it

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post #46 of 59 Old 10-04-2012, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Just MAKE SURE you write down the initial data values before you change ANYTHING in the service menu so you can change it back if you need too
Bohanna
I wasn't talking about service menu! I was talking about manual panel alignment, which your manual apparently deals with. Can you post the whole PDF file somewhere? http://sharesend.com/ is a convenient service which doesn't require registration.
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post #47 of 59 Old 10-04-2012, 05:58 AM
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I wasn't talking about service menu! I was talking about manual panel alignment, which your manual apparently deals with. Can you post the whole PDF file somewhere? http://sharesend.com/ is a convenient service which doesn't require registration.

Go here- http://www.projectionforums.com/

There is a section that has service manuls.

BTW there is NO set rules or procedure for aligning panels. Optical blocks come in many sizes and styles. That is why I mentioned to be carefull when getting in to a projectors service menu.


P.S the http://sharesend.com/ came up as a dead link

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post #48 of 59 Old 10-04-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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P.S the http://sharesend.com/ came up as a dead link
Weird. It works fine for me.
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post #49 of 59 Old 10-04-2012, 09:31 AM
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Weird. It works fine for me.

Just tried it again and I get screen that says upload but my brouse button is disabled. Is there any kind of index of the site??

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post #50 of 59 Old 10-04-2012, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Just tried it again and I get screen that says upload but my brouse button is disabled. Is there any kind of index of the site??
If it's disabled for you, maybe it's a browser-related issue. Maybe you don't have the appropriate functions of Javascript enabled in your browser. It works for me in both Opera and IE8.

Back on topic, I think it's fairly safe to say now that one chip DLP projectors are no longer an option for me, because they display colors sequentially and thus flicker at a low frequency. In addition, each pixel in a DLP projector will flicker to simulate different shades of brightness. This kind of double flicker will surely not be good for my eyes. So, not wanting to take chances with the CRE projector, especially after they ignore my requests for clarification regarding their product line, I'm thinking that perhaps I should swallow my desire for HD resolution and get a Samsung SP-F10 or SP-F10M, while it's still possible.

As to www.projectionforums.com, there is no manual for Sanyo PLC-XF12NL on this site, so please, post yours somewhere.
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post #51 of 59 Old 10-05-2012, 06:00 AM
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If it's disabled for you, maybe it's a browser-related issue. Maybe you don't have the appropriate functions of Javascript enabled in your browser. It works for me in both Opera and IE8.
Back on topic, I think it's fairly safe to say now that one chip DLP projectors are no longer an option for me, because they display colors sequentially and thus flicker at a low frequency. In addition, each pixel in a DLP projector will flicker to simulate different shades of brightness. This kind of double flicker will surely not be good for my eyes. So, not wanting to take chances with the CRE projector, especially after they ignore my requests for clarification regarding their product line, I'm thinking that perhaps I should swallow my desire for HD resolution and get a Samsung SP-F10 or SP-F10M, while it's still possible.
As to www.projectionforums.com, there is no manual for Sanyo PLC-XF12NL on this site, so please, post yours somewhere.
\

The reason I refered you to that site was to show you there are different service manuals and procedures for aligning LCD panels. The xf12NL is a beast that I just happened to pick to show you that Panels were actually tweeked and aligned PM me and leave a email address and I will try to send it to you if you want but I don't think you will be working with one

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post #52 of 59 Old 10-06-2012, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
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The reason I refered you to that site was to show you there are different service manuals and procedures for aligning LCD panels.
And the reason I asked you for the Sanyo PLC-XF12NL service manual is because none of those on projectionforums that I checked contained the section about convergence adjustments, and I was curious to see how it's done. Now that I recieved the manual you sent by email, I can see that.
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post #53 of 59 Old 07-16-2013, 02:35 AM - Thread Starter
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What kind of screen should I look for to use with a projector as a monitor?
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post #54 of 59 Old 07-16-2013, 03:53 AM
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Depends how big of a screen you are going with, but personally, I would get the High Power 2.4 gain screen for this in order to maximize lamp life.

I would go with the Benq w7000 for a projector as a monitor, it's the sharpest one for text under $2000. It also has an adjustable IRIS in the service menu, meaning you can reduce the brightness when the lamp is still too bright without using an ND filter.

Don't go with a non-DLP or one that has convergence. The only NON-DLP projector I've ever seen that is sharp enough to use as a monitor is a JVC, but that is overkill for a monitor and the bulbs are expensive. Forget LCD projectors, way too much of a hit or miss on convergence and sharpness, and I've never seen any LCD be as clear on text as a Benq DLP.
You can get them around $1600 new online now.

Good luck...


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #55 of 59 Old 07-16-2013, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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You've already voiced your opinion about which projector I should use, why repeat yourself?

My last question was about the screen. I don't care about the lamp life, but would like to know what kind of screen would be better for use as a monitor in terms of image quality.
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post #56 of 59 Old 07-17-2013, 03:10 PM
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Well I now own the w7000 myself as well as an RS-45, so was just re-iterating as I am currently using it as a monitor myself (sort of, quite a lot of HTPC usage from the w7000 - works great)...

I am not sure what screen is clearest, but probably the high-end Stewart SnoMatte screen is one of the best ones according to people in the forums. Not sure it'd really be worth it just for text viewing, but no idea myself.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #57 of 59 Old 07-17-2013, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, which screen would be a more cost-effective solution?
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post #58 of 59 Old 07-18-2013, 04:36 AM
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How far back from the screen will you be sitting? That could play into even seeing any screen texture.

What kind of room environment is it going to be in? Lots of ambient light?
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post #59 of 59 Old 07-18-2013, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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As I already said regarding lighting conditions and distance from the screen, I would try to adjust them so that the viewing is most comfortable. The room size is about 4.7x3.3 meters.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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