Official Epson Home Cinema 3020 Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1093 Old 01-15-2013, 12:45 PM
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From what I am learning the HDMI is almost a big a mess as is Cisco Cable Boxes are for Cox Cable....(another thread)

In other words a total nightmare..

I am told there is no real hard set standard, and the each product with HDMI can have a slightly different chip and protocols, so one band of DVD may not work with another brand of TV ETC.

And I am seeing the Play/Don't Play protocols differ from studio to studio and even from movie to movie...

It is kind of like the old days on VHS and the old copy guards...

And add in Electronic Switches and you have more problems..

And of course I plan on having everything turned off when I select from 2D watching to 3D watching with the Mechanical switches.

My 2 cents worth.

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post #362 of 1093 Old 01-15-2013, 04:51 PM
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Well tomorrow I will be exchanging my 3020.

I tried the Convert 2D to 3D and found that on mine the left eye field is distorted.

A call to Epson Support confirmed my problem and that I need to exchange it.

Rich

A word to the wise, test and play every mode on your projectors.

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post #363 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racprops View Post

From what I am learning the HDMI is almost a big a mess as is Cisco Cable Boxes are for Cox Cable....(another thread)

In other words a total nightmare..

I am told there is no real hard set standard, and the each product with HDMI can have a slightly different chip and protocols, so one band of DVD may not work with another brand of TV ETC.

And I am seeing the Play/Don't Play protocols differ from studio to studio and even from movie to movie...

It is kind of like the old days on VHS and the old copy guards...

And add in Electronic Switches and you have more problems..

And of course I plan on having everything turned off when I select from 2D watching to 3D watching with the Mechanical switches.

My 2 cents worth.

Agreed. I made an interesting discovery about electronic HDMI splitters. For one, it's not the switch its the source that determines what gets pushed out. Each device (projector, TV, etc.) generates an EDID that tells the source (blu-ray player, etc) what signal it will accept. So what is happening is if I have my non-3D TV on first and then turn on the projector (both through the splitter), both send their respective EDID to the blu ray player. 3020 says "I'm a 1080p 3D," TV says "I'm a 1080p 2D." The player knows it has two destinations so decides to send the signal that both devices can play. Since the TV is 2D only, the player only sends out a 2D signal.

The problem, as you state, is that devices generate EDID differently. Some will even send it when turned off - you may have to completely unplug it from the wall to make it stop. Hitachi's, for one, do that. In my case, I think just ensuring that my TV is turned off, or unplugged from the HDMI splitter. I'll try this when I can.

Note this is about splitters, switches are different.

Also, looking at the detail on that manual splitter from Fry's I see that it only passes 2.5MB per second - that's not a lot of bandwidth for HD and/or 3D.

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #364 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ngwest36 View Post

Agreed. I made an interesting discovery about electronic HDMI splitters. For one, it's not the switch its the source that determines what gets pushed out. Each device (projector, TV, etc.) generates an EDID that tells the source (blu-ray player, etc) what signal it will accept. So what is happening is if I have my non-3D TV on first and then turn on the projector (both through the splitter), both send their respective EDID to the blu ray player. 3020 says "I'm a 1080p 3D," TV says "I'm a 1080p 2D." The player knows it has two destinations so decides to send the signal that both devices can play. Since the TV is 2D only, the player only sends out a 2D signal.

The problem, as you state, is that devices generate EDID differently. Some will even send it when turned off - you may have to completely unplug it from the wall to make it stop. Hitachi's, for one, do that. In my case, I think just ensuring that my TV is turned off, or unplugged from the HDMI splitter. I'll try this when I can.

Note this is about splitters, switches are different.

Also, looking at the detail on that manual splitter from Fry's I see that it only passes 2.5MB per second - that's not a lot of bandwidth for HD and/or 3D.

And the funny thing is that it was the only switcher that worked...I know and it is rated for 1.3 HDMI.

By the way, Fry's does not sell a manual switcher that is a electronic one.

I have already tried the unplugged the 2D TV and still NO GO.

In my case I think it is the 4 to 2 switcher, it is that I have another outlet on line (even with nothing on it...) that stops the playback, that I MIGHT plug in some recorder or something so it will not play.

Really beginning to hate HDMI.

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post #365 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by racprops View Post

Really beginning to hate HDMI.

Still better than three RGB component cables and optical audio, even with HDMI's idioscyncracies. I much prefer only having one 25' cable on my ceiling!

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #366 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ngwest36 View Post

Still better than three RGB component cables and optical audio, even with HDMI's idioscyncracies. I much prefer only having one 25' cable on my ceiling!

That and it seems 3D will only run on HDMI are the ONLY good reasons for HDMI...

For the past 9 years I ran SVGA and S-Video cables to my old projectors.

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post #367 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 09:20 AM
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So what WOULD you recommend for a splitter? I don't plan on using two devices at the same time. I have a Pioneer Elite receiver from about 3 years ago that only has 1 hdmi output. I currently have that output going to my flat screen. I am installing a 3020, and was looking at this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Z4R45K/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00 .

I will only have one device on at any one time, not both. Do you think this will be ok or do you recommend something else, like this manual switch you guys are talking about?

I was also looking at this: http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-HDMI-Bi-directional-Switch-Switcher/dp/B006CUIVTO/ref=pd_cp_pc_1
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post #368 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 09:46 AM
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I just noticed that when I look at the lens sideways when the projector is turned on, there is some dust inside the lens. Is this normal? Or is there a way to clean it without breaking anything?
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post #369 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 10:25 AM
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Just reinstalled a replacement unit. (Exchanged with Best Buy)

BETTER!!

The 2D to 3D works now.

AND this one is noticeable sharper.

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post #370 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groundtrac View Post

So what WOULD you recommend for a splitter? I don't plan on using two devices at the same time. I have a Pioneer Elite receiver from about 3 years ago that only has 1 hdmi output. I currently have that output going to my flat screen. I am installing a 3020, and was looking at this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Z4R45K/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00 .

I will only have one device on at any one time, not both. Do you think this will be ok or do you recommend something else, like this manual switch you guys are talking about?

I was also looking at this: http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-HDMI-Bi-directional-Switch-Switcher/dp/B006CUIVTO/ref=pd_cp_pc_1

Hard to say.

I have only tested a few and I only found one that worked with my setup, a Sony 3D player to a Epson 3020.

The one I found worked FOR ME is:

http://www.amazon.com/Bytecc-HMSW301SM-Performance-Amplifier-Switcher/dp/B004MCFMBY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358245199&sr=8-1&keywords=0837281107391

The one your looking at looks interesting and I wonder if it is Mechanical with just LEDs powered by the online voltage...

IF you get one please report back here.

Warring: My setup works only for my system, it may not work on your system.

See post 363 above.

Meanwhile I want to switch two Viewing devices (TV and PJ) to three input devices (Cable, DVD, and Computer) and to do that 90% of the time I am using a 2 to 4 electronic switcher, and for Sony 3D only I am having to add two Mechanical switched to by pass the electronic switcher.

See drawing on page 12 post 342 of this thread.

And again warning..all your devices may have to be turned off to let this switching happen safely and in some cases even unplugged for a couple of minutes so the line voltage can die down.

Copy at your own risk.

Rich

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post #371 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groundtrac View Post

So what WOULD you recommend for a splitter? I don't plan on using two devices at the same time. I have a Pioneer Elite receiver from about 3 years ago that only has 1 hdmi output. I currently have that output going to my flat screen. I am installing a 3020, and was looking at this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Z4R45K/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00 .

I will only have one device on at any one time, not both. Do you think this will be ok or do you recommend something else, like this manual switch you guys are talking about?

I was also looking at this: http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-HDMI-Bi-directional-Switch-Switcher/dp/B006CUIVTO/ref=pd_cp_pc_1

I got this version of the Vipowered splitterlitter. Didn't want to have to get up to hit a switch. The other splitter you linked looks fine too.

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #372 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 12:53 PM
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Yes all the electronic switchers came with remote controls...

I remember the days before remote controls...when I was the remote control as in Rich get up and change the channel.

Heard the term of a remote being a "Clicker"??

That is because early remotes like Zenith were not electronic but tuning forks, well rods and when you pushed the button it would click or snap as it struck the rod with a hammer and the ultrasonic sound would be picked up by the receiver in the TV and it would then respond.

Simple commands like change channel of sound up or down in steps.

Ah the good old days....NOT!!

Rich

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post #373 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groundtrac View Post

So what WOULD you recommend for a splitter? I don't plan on using two devices at the same time. I have a Pioneer Elite receiver from about 3 years ago that only has 1 hdmi output. I currently have that output going to my flat screen. I am installing a 3020, and was looking at this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Z4R45K/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00 .

I will only have one device on at any one time, not both. Do you think this will be ok or do you recommend something else, like this manual switch you guys are talking about?

I was also looking at this: http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-HDMI-Bi-directional-Switch-Switcher/dp/B006CUIVTO/ref=pd_cp_pc_1

I've used the following monoprice switch with my 3020, Sony bluray s590, Onkyo receiver, etc. in 3D mode without a problem:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=8463&seq=1&format=2
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post #374 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 02:20 PM
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Great.

The problem I have is I want two outputs with four or five inputs.

I have not found a compatible switch like that.

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post #375 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 04:26 PM
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Great.

The problem I have is I want two outputs with four or five inputs.

I have not found a compatible switch like that.

Don't you have an AVR?

HD DVD = 64
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SDVD = 585
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post #376 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 04:40 PM
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Just got my 3020! Waiting on the universal mount to be delivered. Anyone know what size screws are need for mounting the 3020?

Thanks!
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post #377 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ngwest36 View Post

Don't you have an AVR?

What is a VAR is that a brand?

Rich

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post #378 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 05:47 PM
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Just got my 3020! Waiting on the universal mount to be delivered. Anyone know what size screws are need for mounting the 3020?

Thanks!

The info will be in the Documentation of the 3020 Manual etc.... And your mount should come with various sizes of screws.
I think it might be a one card insertion in the literature in the 3020 box for mounting ....screws used and a warning.

iMIKE THEATRE
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post #379 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
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What is a VAR is that a brand?

Rich

Rich-He said AVR----Audio Video Receiver.

Ed
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post #380 of 1093 Old 01-16-2013, 07:21 PM
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OK But The TV Tuners are already AVR then as they do both.

OR are we talking about a new Stereo receiver with video switching..well kind of but it is a older model and only switches composite video...

If it an't broke why buy?

Rich

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post #381 of 1093 Old 01-17-2013, 02:04 AM
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OK But The TV Tuners are already AVR then as they do both.

OR are we talking about a new Stereo receiver with video switching..well kind of but it is a older model and only switches composite video...

If it an't broke why buy?

Rich

Composite? You gonna hook your Betamax up to it? biggrin.gif

HD DVD = 64
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post #382 of 1093 Old 01-17-2013, 05:00 AM
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Funny I do still have a Batamax, we got into video when the Batamax was new, as a one hour recorder and a top loader...

We also have a old Victor Kalar 16 MM FILM Projector (Famous for how these old machines would not rip up film should a mishap happen, even a bad splice would kick out the gate and stop the film, these were highly wanted machines by film collectors...) and at one time was collecting a few special films and added a anamorphic lens and was able to get some 16mm film in that format so we could screen wide CinemaScope movies.

We had cable in LA in the 80s.

In '93 we got a 10 food C Band satellite dish to get better movies. Got out of C Band due to TI and as it was going digital.

I had Voom Satellite for the year they lasted, great idea and very sorry they failed, all HD that was on the air plus 11 special movies channels with two movies playing all day in HD they put together.

I just cleaned up my video section and removed a apple box of cables, (Component, S-video and audio lines and 6 switchers, and VHS cables...) at one time at the peek we had: Direct TV DVR, a all country DVD, a Blu-ray DVD, two Cox cable Boxes, (three when you count the one in my wife's room.) three VHS, two VCR type DVD-Ram recorders, a Batamax, and the Laser Disk.

AND I had controls to allow all of this to playback on a TV and a projector, and to record Bata, to VHS or to the DVD-Ram, or DVD to VHS or DVD-Ram...a really complex system.

From the 80s we have recorded all out TV shows and watched them at our control and when we wanted, first with VHS, then the DVD-Ram with tuners like VHS like machines, than with Direct DVR and lastly with Cable Box DVRs and NOW I am building my own computer DVR and getting my wife a TIVO as she does not want a large complex computer in her room.

Now I have stripped the living room down to: The all country DVD, a new Sony 3D Blu-ray, one Cox Box, (for now) one DVD-Ram, one VHS.

I am 64 and remember a Black and White TV and watching 2 and 3 channel TV in the 50s, at one time we lived out in a small town and was hooked up to what some say was the beginning of cable, a company that a antenna on a nearby mountain and sold TV reception from Phoenix via flat lead wire.

So I kind of have seen it all...

I have a nice receiver and have never hooked it up to control video, I do have a old Sansui QS-1 4 channel audio convertor that works 2 channel stereo into great 4 channel sound, kind of like our 2D to 3D video convertors now do, and it has its own second receiver as the back channel's amp, and the main receiver has surround sound decoder for movies. So I have 6 speakers, with 4 for the main receiver's surround sound and then a second pair for the 4 channel rear sound playback.

I run a 5 Cd player but am converting over to having music either on my computer in MP3s (Hooked up to the stereo system...) and my car and bedroom systems now play SD Cards MP3 systems. 16 GIG SD Cards hold about 5 days of music...

I dislike the idea of having too much tied into one costly box like having a stereo receiver that controls all my video and music systems. I had one like that years ago and when it failed left it was a hard to replace unit.

Rich

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post #383 of 1093 Old 01-17-2013, 07:15 AM
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Dang Rich, you is OLD! Just kiddin', you're a youngster--I'm 67 myself;). I remember the "clicker" Zenith remote control you mentioned the other day. When you changed he channel it went CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK and the dial on the TV actually turned. If I remember correctly (that's questionable,rolleyes.gif) ours didn't last long. Enjoy reading your posts!smile.gif

Ed
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post #384 of 1093 Old 01-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by old corps View Post

Dang Rich, you is OLD! Just kiddin', you're a youngster--I'm 67 myself;). I remember the "clicker" Zenith remote control you mentioned the other day. When you changed he channel it went CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK and the dial on the TV actually turned. If I remember correctly (that's questionable,rolleyes.gif) ours didn't last long. Enjoy reading your posts!smile.gif

Ed

Thanks.

It has been a very interesting 64 years..and I would like to do 64 more...

IF I could stay in the shape I am in now...or better...

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post #385 of 1093 Old 01-18-2013, 05:03 AM
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As a part of my Epson 3020 install has been the effort to get video, specially 3D.

And as a part of my efforts has been to get off cable and more on to the internet.

I talked with Cox and CenturyLink about phone and internet service, Cox will cost me $95.00 for around 20 to 30 MB, Centurylink will sell me 20 MB fore $69.95 or 40MB at $74.95.

With a 5 year price lock.

A small saving, but with Cox's retaliatory attitude, IE IF I leave I lose a couple of grandfather deals and how last time they put in a internet slowing filter to block my possible stealing TV and even cut the wire ..(all proved when I had the TV system turned back on..) I get the feeling I will need to cut cable total out.

Has anyone done this? And if so how was DSL??

Rich

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post #386 of 1093 Old 01-18-2013, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by racprops View Post

As a part of my Epson 3020 install has been the effort to get video, specially 3D.

And as a part of my efforts has been to get off cable and more on to the internet.

I talked with Cox and CenturyLink about phone and internet service, Cox will cost me $95.00 for around 20 to 30 MB, Centurylink will sell me 20 MB fore $69.95 or 40MB at $74.95.

With a 5 year price lock.

A small saving, but with Cox's retaliatory attitude, IE IF I leave I lose a couple of grandfather deals and how last time they put in a internet slowing filter to block my possible stealing TV and even cut the wire ..(all proved when I had the TV system turned back on..) I get the feeling I will need to cut cable total out.

Has anyone done this? And if so how was DSL??

Rich

Is DSL fast enough? I don't know if it's gotten better, but wasn't DSL just above dial-up back in the day? You're going to need 5MB/sec at least for HD and 3D I think.

HD DVD = 64
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post #387 of 1093 Old 01-18-2013, 06:01 AM
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Well cable has 20 to 30 KBPS and DSL now says they will provide 40KBPS.

Netflixs say you need 12 KBPS for their 1080 3D.

Rich

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post #388 of 1093 Old 01-18-2013, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etoile37 View Post

I just noticed that when I look at the lens sideways when the projector is turned on, there is some dust inside the lens. Is this normal? Or is there a way to clean it without breaking anything?

I notice something similar. Doesn't seem to affect anything. * shrug *
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post #389 of 1093 Old 01-18-2013, 04:26 PM
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Man you sure can see the low res pictures and all the focus mistakes in shows and film.

The replacement projector is as sharp as my old DLP was if not a touch better.

I am so glad I exchanged it. the first 3020 was not as sharp.

Rich

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post #390 of 1093 Old 01-18-2013, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngwest36 View Post

Is DSL fast enough? I don't know if it's gotten better, but wasn't DSL just above dial-up back in the day? You're going to need 5MB/sec at least for HD and 3D I think.

DSL has gotten alot better, depending on the area you live in. My centurylink package is currently giving me, 12123Kbps downstream, normally the higher "upstream" rates are lower, vs cable, unless you pay more. That's over 2x the downstream rate my cable had, for less money, on the 5 yr pricelock package.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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