Q - BenQ W7000 or Epson 3020 -- Which direction should I go? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 74 Old 10-29-2012, 09:12 PM
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Thanks for the effort Crabalocker, it is much appreciated. I definitely have my work cut out for me in terms of making this decision, there are the 8500ub, 8700ub, 8350 and 3020 that are all in the mix at this point. I want the best blacks possible but I also do not want the projector to look dull and dim once the lights start going up slightly. I will be viewing a 9350 (pro verison of the 8350) tomorrow and see how that looks but I don't know where I will be able to view a 8500ub or 8700ub.

As for DLP, I am not considering it at this point in time and that is unfortunate because I love the picture it produces. I am just slightly succeptible to RBE and fear that I will notice even more with time. That and the fact that the rest of the family and guests may be bothered by it leads me to think that I should stay away from DLP until they resolve this issue.


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post #62 of 74 Old 10-30-2012, 08:50 PM
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Crabalocker, I had the chance to view an Epson 6010 today in a darkened room from an AV specialist and the thing that struck me the most is that the blacks looked nothing like in your pictures of the 8500ub. It was a 106" screen and projector was at about 13'. Dark grey walls and darkish ceiling. When we closed the door to the room and shut off all the lights, it was completely dark, except for the light from the projector. The black bars on the top and bottom of the 2.35:1 movie we were testing did not look dark like in your pictures, I would say probably more like the W7000 pics and maybe worse. The screen was a Steward Filmscreen so I know it was a good one. Is it maybe that the projector was badly setup and needed calibration to get to the look you showed in your pictures? Remember the 6010 is 2 generations newer than the 8500ub so one would expect much better at everything.

This is all just throwing me for a loop. I know that I will stay with a screen between 120"-128" (projector lamp will be about 14'10" from the screen) so from your pics I should be able to light up the screen no problem in a darkened environment. However, when we watch other content like sporting events or even just regular HDTV with very little to mild lights on, I am worried about it washing out too much. From the online calculators (PJC and coderguy), I see that the 8500ub (and 8700ub) do not seem to put up enough lumens but your pictures tell a different story. This is why the 8350 is a consideration, purely for lumen power (onlt 400 lumens more than 8500ub-8700ub), but then again I do not want to be completely disappointed with the black levels. Do you have any counsel for me regarding all these concerns? I know you did not put up the pics with ambient light on yesterday but maybe you can tell me your thoughts on this situation? I will be sitting 12.5' from the screen for reference, is that too close for a 128" screen?


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post #63 of 74 Old 10-30-2012, 11:38 PM
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Don't know what to tell yea my friend. The 8500 easily lights up my 153" screen and the blacks are noticeably blacker than the 8350 and the W7000. The 6010 should, if setup properly, easily be as dark as my 8500Ub and have better shadow detail.

Remember, my pictures were a 2 second exposure with no photo editing. I'm not sure how the camera's iris reacts to different light (black) levels? But every time I test the different projectors, to the eye as well as the camera, the Ub is noticeably blacker. The 8350 and the W7000 have a glow to the black screen saver of the OppO and the space scene's where as the 8500 doesn't glow, it's just black (maybe not as black as the velvet or the total darkness but it has no glow).

Too bad you're in Montreal, I'm in Barrie...just north of Toronto 'cause you could come over and take a look at my setup.

The 8350 is brighter than my 8500Ub and looks better with ambient light. The W7000 looks so sweet with ambient light and I'm in love with the DLP look. That projector looks amazing with some lights on, it's killer! But if you turn the lights to the lowest dim setting or off, the 8500 kicks both these projectors a$$es. Even with my dimmed bulb. The blacks are black with my 8500Ub and the black bars do not stand out at all when watching a movie(although there). The 8350 and the W7000 on the other hand do.

Projector calculator or not, any of these projectors light up my screen and it's BIG! I don't know, maybe because my screen is so big the light coming off a large surface area it throws enough light (lumens) back?? It's not the same light level as my 55" LCD but it's plenty bright while watching. Very similar to brightness levels at the theater. I find the BenQ too bright and have it set to cinema and in eco lamp mode to kill some of the lumens and I still need ambient lights to help off set the brightness coming off the screen. Maybe I'm more susceptible to retinal burnage???

Any projector in these price ranges, IMHO, will look good and easily light up a 128" screen. I sit 15 feet back from my screen so 12.5 should look roughly the same????

I hope the 6010 was not set up correct 'cause I do not want to be disappointed with the 5020, if that's what I end up getting. I do like the ultra deep blacks when watching a movie, especially in really dim to no light.

I honestly think you'll love what ever projector you pick.

Sorry I can't help. All I can do is just give you my opinion with what my eyes see.

Good luck. I'll be reading to see what you end up getting and your thoughts as well.

If you're ever in Toronto, send me a PM and stop by.......you'll love my Seaton SubMersive, it's a beast!

Later.
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post #64 of 74 Old 10-31-2012, 06:12 AM
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Thanks Crabalocker, if I'm ever in TO in the next little while on business, I'll get in touch with you. Very insightful info, I have a tough choice ahead but maybe what will also drive it is availability of each model locally.


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post #65 of 74 Old 10-31-2012, 06:33 AM
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Since you have not committed, you may want to add the Mitsubishi 8000 to your short list.. http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc8000d_full_hd_3d_projector_review.htm
Oh sorry,,forgot your budget limit.. this is way to much but maybe worth saving for?

Doug

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post #66 of 74 Old 11-10-2012, 09:42 PM
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Is the Epson 3020 be anywhere near comparable to the 8500/8700 UBs , in black level performance/contrast with a 1.0 gain screen? `Sorry if I sound too noobish to be true, but unfortunately, that's coz I am. frown.gif

Regards
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post #67 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 06:12 AM
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All,

I'm trying to decide which projector to get. Little background information first. I have a dedicated theater room 18.4 x 13 x 9 with vaulted ceiling to 11. No ambient light. Budget around 2000 to 2100. I'm trying to decide between the Epson 3020, Benq W7000 and if one of the JVCs B-stocks falls into my price range at the time of purchase at the end of the month. As far as usage probably 40% TV/Sports 40% Movies(15-20% 3D content) and 10-15% games(mostly sports games). This is my first projector and I don't know what direction i should go. So, im coming to y'all for help on this journey. biggrin.gif Any help will be appreciated.....
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post #68 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 08:26 AM
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Unfortunately, the 3020 is very average in terms of blacks, even with the Iris on highest setting. However, the shadow is pretty good. It is my main qualm with entry level projector.
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post #69 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecold1936 View Post

All,
I'm trying to decide which projector to get. Little background information first. I have a dedicated theater room 18.4 x 13 x 9 with vaulted ceiling to 11. No ambient light. Budget around 2000 to 2100. I'm trying to decide between the Epson 3020, Benq W7000 and if one of the JVCs B-stocks falls into my price range at the time of purchase at the end of the month. As far as usage probably 40% TV/Sports 40% Movies(15-20% 3D content) and 10-15% games(mostly sports games). This is my first projector and I don't know what direction i should go. So, im coming to y'all for help on this journey. biggrin.gif Any help will be appreciated.....


I like my W7000 as an overall work horse. TV and sports look great on a DLP as does gaming. 3D looks rather good on the unit as well. The area that I have a bit of an issue with is 2D movies. I'm a little RBE sensitive and find it tiring while watching movies in a darkened setting. I can tolerate it with some ambient light. I haven't seen it but have heard that the 3020 is better but not great with gaming. I used to run my 8350 as a gaming machine but LCD was not the best for my needs (COD) and find the DLP much improved with motion. I find no noticeable difference in lag (although there is when measured) between the W7000 and my 8350.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull1985 View Post

Is the Epson 3020 be anywhere near comparable to the 8500/8700 UBs , in black level performance/contrast with a 1.0 gain screen? `Sorry if I sound too noobish to be true, but unfortunately, that's coz I am. frown.gif
Regards
RB


The 3020's black and contrast should be very similar to my W7000. Below, taken from an earlier post, this should give you an idea of how the blacks should look in comparison. The 3020 will probably give you the same grey glow to the black bars that my W7000 and 8350 do while watching letter boxed movies. You know you're watching a letter box movie but with my 8500Ub, not so much. It gives you the slightest illusion while in complete dark that you could be watching on a 2.35:1 screen. The deeper blacks give the image more PoP, IMO. The Thor shot gives you an idea of the glow and PoP.

note: I'm not a professional photographer so the shots of the W7000 might be over exposed a bit because of the extra lumens and the 8500Ub might be under exposed because of the brightness differences. It only gives you an idea of the expected differences, a reasonable facsimile.

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Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

Here's a couple of screen shots I just took. They are the W7000 and my older 8500Ub. You'll see the difference in blacks and will give you an idea what the upgrade from the 3020 to the 5020 would be kinda like.
Same exposure same camera and no picture touch-ups.
W7000

8500Ub

W7000

8500Ub

W7000

8500Ub
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post #70 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 11:27 AM
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Crabalocker, can you tell me about your room a little more? I find it to be quite dark with that huge of a screen lighting up the room. Please let me know the color of your walls and ceiling because my experience with a temprorary business projector (which I am using for testing purposes) is that once it is lighting up my wall, there is plenty of light in the room, nowhere near as dark as in your pictures.


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post #71 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 12:20 PM
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I'm in the same boat, out of all the projectors I'm considering I'm settling on Epson and the 3020 or 5010(20). Warranty, support and lamp life are too good to pass it up. My room is not light controlled (family room) and the walls are light colored - but we do not watch the pj during the day anyway. My screen is a Firehawk.

Now that the 5020 is out, I wonder if one could get the 5010 in a closeout deal (maybe in the <$2000 price range), otherwise I would have to get the 3020 which I understand sacrifices black level (mainly), otherwise it's a very nice pj and most are bundled with free 3D glasses.

If someone is willing the unload a 5010(e) I will be interested - anyone knows if Epson's warranty is transferable? A AE7000 just sold here for $1000, so maybe we get lucky 8).

Thanks, MJC
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post #72 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV Maniac View Post

Crabalocker, can you tell me about your room a little more? I find it to be quite dark with that huge of a screen lighting up the room. Please let me know the color of your walls and ceiling because my experience with a temprorary business projector (which I am using for testing purposes) is that once it is lighting up my wall, there is plenty of light in the room, nowhere near as dark as in your pictures.


The photos are all of dark scenes to get an idea of black levels. The projector from just the the light reflecting back into the room does light it up pretty good. It also has to do with how the camera reacts to brightness from the screen to the dark of the room. I'm not sure of the photographic terms. The same way when you try to take a picture of a subject when placed in front of a window, the camera measures the light from the window and the averaged light is lowered or balanced and in turn it results in the subject to look darker than it really is. Again the term of this effect ???? forgive my ignorance to the photographers here.

Here are some shots of my room:








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post #73 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 01:40 PM
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I'm upgrading the projector I bought 10 years ago (A Sony HS10 - http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-HS10_Cineza.htm ) and The BenQ W7000 and the Epson 3202 are the two projectors I've narrowed it down to because I want to keep the total cost under $2k. Otherwise I'd get the new panasonic with it's great reviews and it's low 22db noise level.

It makes it hard that there really isn't anywhere to see the projectors in person to compare them (which was also the case 10 years ago).

I've pretty much decided on the 3020 for a few reasons
- projector is less expensive
- RF glasses seem to be both better and less expensive
- concern about rainbows. The problem isn't just woudl they bother me, it's would anyone who watched it be bothered by them. I think I'm right that the W7000 is 4x in the movie modes, 6x in the higher power modes. If RBE is a potential concern with DLP, what is the tradeoff in using the LCD in the 3020?

One thing I wonder about from the research I've done is the comments that LCD is a more movie like picture. How can this be true when digital projectors in real movies are DLP?

I want to watch movies, 3d movies, occasional sporting events (including 3d sports), and some tv shows like Doctor Who, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy. I don't care at all about any lag for video games on the projector.

I'm not sure what the difference is between ghosting and crosstalk, but I don't want whichever one it is that I get with polarized glasses at the movie theater where I sometimes see two separate images instead of a single 3D image. Which is why I'm not considering the 3010 or 5010 as I've heard this is significantly better in the new generation.

The other projector that has caught my attention is the yet to be released BenQ 1070 with it's 6x color wheel. It's unclear if it will be out in the US before christmas, which is when I plan to install the new projector. This projector sounds too good to be true - better than the W7000 for about half the cost.

I'm projecting a 169" diagonal image in a light controlled theater room. I know anything I get will be a vast improvement over my 10 year old projector, but it will also quite likely be a projector I keep for another 10 years. So any advice to help me make the best choice would be appreciated.

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post #74 of 74 Old 11-13-2012, 01:51 PM
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I love the DLP look but rainbows I do not like. My Epson's look really good as well on my screen. I think the 3020 would be a good choice, I believe it's really bright in best mode, more than a 1000 lumens I believe.
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