BenQ W1070 : DLP Full HD, 3D Ready with lens-shift for 1000$ - Page 181 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5401 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post


Not sure exactly what you guys are watching on your PCs, but I would assume that some of it is movies, probably from a blu-ray. If that is the case, why would you want to introduce 3:2 pulldown by playing movies at 60hz, rather than match film cadence at 24? Especially since 24hz material would activate the 144hz mode on the projector, which would provide smoother, more film like motion, especially on pans, rather than 3:2 hitching.

Am I missing something?

Let's just say I'm not a videophile and I just feel 60hz is very smooth in MPC and do not feel any motions wrong. I don't really give a damn of 3:2 pull down, but I hate 24hz because the mouse moves so slow on the desktop. And I hate to switch frequency every time you watch something. This 1.06 just gives me a relief that I no longer need to switch frequencies. Even though it improved HDMI hand shake, it still takes a few seconds to show the image, which is another thing I hate.
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post #5402 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BradP View Post

Can anyone recommend an affordable HDMI splitter that will work with 1 2D-Only (Panny Plasma) and 1 3D-Only (W1070) connected to it?

I thought I was covered with the cheapest Monoprice offering, but it appears that when I have my Panasonic 2D TV connected to the splitter as well as the 3D W1070, it won't allow the W1070 to see that it's 3D-capable.

I am in the same boat and when I tried that, it fried my Monoprice splitter. I wouldn't try to split a 3d signal and be grateful that it works for 2d.
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post #5403 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by hotjt133 View Post

Let's just say I'm not a videophile and I just feel 60hz is very smooth in MPC and do not feel any motions wrong. I don't really give a damn of 3:2 pull down, but I hate 24hz because the mouse moves so slow on the desktop. And I hate to switch frequency every time you watch something. This 1.06 just gives me a relief that I no longer need to switch frequencies. Even though it improved HDMI hand shake, it still takes a few seconds to show the image, which is another thing I hate.

MPC automatically switches refresh rate for you and disables Aero on your desktop when it detects 1080p 24hz playback, though if you set it to do so. The mouse stutter is a slight annoyance, but I only move the mouse to start and stop the movie, so it's only for a couple seconds. Benefits of 24hz outweigh that to me, but to each their own.

I am a videophile though I must confess lol.

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post #5404 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I am in the same boat and when I tried that, it fried my Monoprice splitter. I wouldn't try to split a 3d signal and be grateful that it works for 2d.

Not trying to run both at once, just trying to have the 3D work when it's on, and the 2D work when it's on. Both are never on at the same time. For some reason my splitter seems to cause the 3D to not detect due to the other device connected being 2D compatible only.
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post #5405 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by acras13 View Post

Are you trying to run both displays at the same time? Does it send 3d when the panny is turned off or its HDMI disconnected? Have you reversed which ports in the splitter your displays are plugged into? Maybe one port sets output for the other and you have the panny plugged into the master, and since its seeing a 2d only device that is what your source is using to determine output for both. Pure speculation on my part though.

Simple thing to try. I'll try it and report back. I had not tried swapping the ports. If that doesn't work I guess it's time to just start trying splitters until I get one that works. I don't need both devices running at once, this is just so I can have a plasma with a electric screen to drop down as an option (sometimes I use the projector only, sometimes the plasma only - small room).
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post #5406 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I am in the same boat and when I tried that, it fried my Monoprice splitter. I wouldn't try to split a 3d signal and be grateful that it works for 2d.

The problem is that the splitter defaults to the last resolution used so it will be impossible to use it for both 2D and 3D at the same time I would suggest using a small HDMI switch instead.
That is what I use with two projectors.
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post #5407 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 10:08 AM
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FYI : 24p at 60hz is completely, 100% solved in software without frame interpolation.

I think it's called frame blending (which doesn't invent frames, it just blends between them smoothly in intermediary time slices). The result is no 3:2 cadence, ever. I think it's the new Mad VR that supports it. Anyway, look it up in the HTPC subforum, people there seem very satisfied at the panning / smoothness of it. Honestly I hate 24p and would never switch into it again if I could (except I play back my Blurays on my PS3 because I absolutely loathe fiddling with PowerDVD software updates and problems on the PC side of Bluray playback).

I'm so glad 1080p SBS is supported now, it'll make it easier to play Skyrim/etc when I have time to play it again! I HATED having to switch into 1080i / 60 to do 3D, it was so annoying. The benefit of it being auto-detected is really what I wanted the whole time from a firmware update, so this is IT ! All our prayers have been answered (well, most).

I think it's worth it to void my warranty because it's only good for another few months anyway, and this PJ has given me no problems otherwise aside from the red blinking light on startup occasionally, which apparently this firmware fixes too!

Re : 2.35 : 1 in 1920 x 800 : that actually only creates a 1920 x 1080 sub-resolution, so I believe it still sends 1920x1080 over the wire. What's more important is that it doesn't do stretching, unless you tell it to in the projector. Although, there is really not much point in doing all that with Zooming, IMO. It will help windows desktop always stay in your Scope screen, but then you might consider adding a wide angle A-lens (which I will do, shortly).

I wonder if 3D has been fixed with the vertical stretching. It probably works fine with 1080p SBS or Top/Bottom, since it worked with 1080i Top/Bottom with Skyrim running in a custom 1080i/60 -> 1920x800 resolution, but not with FramePacking (either from PC or from PS3 in 1080p / 24).

SVP codec works so well and looks great with my new Haswell system (MUCH less artifacts when you upgrade your CPU), that I think it may be worth it to hack a 1080p / 30 frame packing mode into the firmware, as that will definitely fit within the HDMI bandwidth budget, and going up from 24p -> 30p in 3D movies and Blurays would finally give me a good reason to give my PS3 to my niece. (esp since I will get an Xb1 and PS4 when they come out). 25% smoother from not-very-smooth is a big upgrade in smoothness, IMO. And 3D benefits from more smoothness twice as much as 2D. I remember Hobbit HFR looking much more "solid" and "there" than the non-HFR 3D version. Every little bit helps. For games I'd probably stick to 60hz though, over frame packing, better to have double the frames than double the horizontal rez.

I'm upgrading my firmware tonight with the aid of an LCD monitor loaner from the office, and will try to see if vertical stretching works in the 1080p SBS / TB modes. That would be pretty sweet.
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post #5408 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post


Not sure exactly what you guys are watching on your PCs, but I would assume that some of it is movies, probably from a blu-ray. If that is the case, why would you want to introduce 3:2 pulldown by playing movies at 60hz, rather than match film cadence at 24? Especially since 24hz material would activate the 144hz mode on the projector, which would provide smoother, more film like motion, especially on pans, rather than 3:2 hitching.

Am I missing something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post


Not sure exactly what you guys are watching on your PCs, but I would assume that some of it is movies, probably from a blu-ray. If that is the case, why would you want to introduce 3:2 pulldown by playing movies at 60hz, rather than match film cadence at 24? Especially since 24hz material would activate the 144hz mode on the projector, which would provide smoother, more film like motion, especially on pans, rather than 3:2 hitching.

Am I missing something?
I only watch mkv ripped movie files from my HTPC. I do not realize that 24Hz is better than 60 as I always thought the faster Hz is better. Good to know. Didn't know 24hz activates 144hz mode on pj either- not sure what it does, can you explain?
I assume 1080p/60hz is the best for 2D movies and sports?
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post #5409 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 10:16 AM
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If you bricked your projector somehow by trying to update the firmware, I'm sure that BenQ would not help you or honor your warranty. If you have successfully updated the FW and have a mechanical issue with the projector though, I'd be surprised if you wouldn't be able to get service. Might take some slick talking, but again, I'd be surprised if it isn't doable

Don't say anything..

There are many thing that I personally and many others have doen in regards to software/firmware with electronics that techniocally "void" the warranty. Say it stopped working and move along. If you tell them you were doing something that clearly voids the warranty then exspect them to void it.

Keep your mouth shut and say it just stopped working.

It's quite easy for them to see if you did something physical such as open it up as many products have stickers that break, however generally they just replace it. Newegg doesnt have the capacity or tools if even possible to check the firmware on a bricked projector, benq I doubt even cares, they probably just swap the bored..

BenQ and Im sure other use places like Mendtronix to take care of RMA/s and warranty work, they swap out the guys or give you a refurb all together.

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post #5410 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post


I only watch mkv ripped movie files from my HTPC. I do not realize that 24Hz is better than 60 as I always thought the faster Hz is better. Good to know. Didn't know 24hz activates 144hz mode on pj either- not sure what it does, can you explain?
I assume 1080p/60hz is the best for 2D movies and sports?

Most Blu-Rays are shot in 1080p/24 Sports and some music concerts are 1080p/60
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post #5411 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post


I only watch mkv ripped movie files from my HTPC. I do not realize that 24Hz is better than 60 as I always thought the faster Hz is better. Good to know. Didn't know 24hz activates 144hz mode on pj either- not sure what it does, can you explain?
I assume 1080p/60hz is the best for 2D movies and sports?

Movies are traditional shot at 24FPS, much slower than the average refresh rate of displays/projectors. This causes some motion blur/judder on the display. Playing at 24hz with something like 144hz engaged is "supposed" to smooth out the movie to give more detail and smoothness to panning shots, less eye strain etc..

What is best is subjective, you are more than welcome to leave 24p mode off on your projecotr and run at 60hz. Try 24p and see if you like it better, if a 24p signal is not being displayed it will use the projectors native 60hz no need to change settings everytime you turn something else on.

If you are playing MKV files and not blu rays through a 24p compatibile player (which anything new probably is), your HTPC or whatever your using to stream needs to support 24p playback in order for it to work, generally from my experience it does not work so well.

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post #5412 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 10:53 AM
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I have been through the a million threads on pj's and screens. Still up in the air on the screen but decided I was pulling the trigger on the W1070, and BAM, Amazon is out of stock.

The next best price is tiger direct through amazon, its $20 more and not prime shipping. Anyone know about how long they generally are out of stock at amazon? Is Tiger Direct on par with Amazon for returns and problems?
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post #5413 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 11:06 AM
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IDidn't know 24hz activates 144hz mode on pj either- not sure what it does, can you explain?

Like Shady said, films are traditionally shot in 24fps. The 144Hz allows the glasses to shutter in sync with the frame rate since 144 is a multiple of 24. Most 3D projectors use 120Hz glasses that will shutter out of sync with the frames of the movie. This can cause a less crisp image with watching 3D.

As for 2D content, 24fps vs 60fps is personal preference. I grew up with analog film cinemas and when I watch movies on TVs and projectors that have frame interpolation to "convert" it to 60Hz, it causes the image to look un-naturally smooth and takes away from the movie experience. Again that is just my opinion.
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post #5414 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 11:14 AM
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The Mad VR frame blending is not the same thing as smoothing. People who hate SVP still like the blending, it eliminates 3:2 judder from pulldown

I encourage people who hate smoothing but don't want to switch their refresh rate from 60hz to 24hz all the time, to read the following:

http://community.mediabrowser.tv/permalinks/13288/madvr-v0-86-0-released---this-may-resolve-all-our-refresh-rate-switching-woes
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post #5415 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 11:15 AM
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I have been through the a million threads on pj's and screens. Still up in the air on the screen but decided I was pulling the trigger on the W1070, and BAM, Amazon is out of stock.

The next best price is tiger direct through amazon, its $20 more and not prime shipping. Anyone know about how long they generally are out of stock at amazon? Is Tiger Direct on par with Amazon for returns and problems?

I got mine from NCIX, for $850 back in early dec '12. Best AV purchase I've ever made.

Tiger Direct is also decent, I've ordered a few things from them before, but not projectors.
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post #5416 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

FYI : 24p at 60hz is completely, 100% solved in software without frame interpolation.

I think it's called frame blending (which doesn't invent frames, it just blends between them smoothly in intermediary time slices). The result is no 3:2 cadence, ever. I think it's the new Mad VR that supports it. Anyway, look it up in the HTPC subforum, people there seem very satisfied at the panning / smoothness of it. Honestly I hate 24p and would never switch into it again if I could (except I play back my Blurays on my PS3 because I absolutely loathe fiddling with PowerDVD software updates and problems on the PC side of Bluray playback).

3:2 pulldown is also a type of fix for 60hz not being a multiple of 24, but it doesn't work very well. I'm sure whatever you are talking about doesn't work better than actually matching the cadence of the original, especially when it enables 144hz to help smooth motion further, which can be useful for 3D, so it still doesn't make sense to me, to not just match the cadence of the film proper...

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post #5417 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 12:55 PM
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Too many posts to reply to lol, so I'll just make a general one.

Going from 24hz to 60hz does not introduce smoothing. 60 not being a multiple of 24 created the need for 3:2 pulldown, which creates hitches and stuttering, most easily spotted in pans (when the camera sweeps horizontally or vertically across the screen).

All movies, except the Hobbit, are shot at 24fps. Pretty much all BDs, even a lot of TV shows on BDs, are 24p. When you playback a BD on a 24p capable display, you match the original film cadence, bypass 3:2 pulldown, and eliminate hitching and stuttering due to 3:2 pulldown as a result.

This is how the film was intended to look. Don't personally see the point in deviating from that, or introducing visual anomalies into the equation by purposely choosing modes that are non multiples of 24, but again, to each their own.
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post #5418 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Movies are traditional shot at 24FPS, much slower than the average refresh rate of displays/projectors. This causes some motion blur/judder on the display. Playing at 24hz with something like 144hz engaged is "supposed" to smooth out the movie to give more detail and smoothness to panning shots, less eye strain etc..

What is best is subjective, you are more than welcome to leave 24p mode off on your projecotr and run at 60hz. Try 24p and see if you like it better, if a 24p signal is not being displayed it will use the projectors native 60hz no need to change settings everytime you turn something else on.

If you are playing MKV files and not blu rays through a 24p compatibile player (which anything new probably is), your HTPC or whatever your using to stream needs to support 24p playback in order for it to work, generally from my experience it does not work so well.

Quote:
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Like Shady said, films are traditionally shot in 24fps. The 144Hz allows the glasses to shutter in sync with the frame rate since 144 is a multiple of 24. Most 3D projectors use 120Hz glasses that will shutter out of sync with the frames of the movie. This can cause a less crisp image with watching 3D.

As for 2D content, 24fps vs 60fps is personal preference. I grew up with analog film cinemas and when I watch movies on TVs and projectors that have frame interpolation to "convert" it to 60Hz, it causes the image to look un-naturally smooth and takes away from the movie experience. Again that is just my opinion.
Thanks for the detail explanation. As I said, I always thought faster Hz is better, i.e 240Hz TV is more expensive, better than 60Hz, 120Hz TV?
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post #5419 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 01:07 PM
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Thanks for the detail explanation. As I said, I always thought faster Hz is better, i.e 240Hz TV is more expensive, better than 60Hz, 120Hz TV?

For an LCD, higher refresh rate is better in terms of motion blur. There is a difference between having a high refresh rate and having motion smoothing or dejudder modes. Depends on the TV.

Some TVs allow you to enable the higher refresh so that you can combat motion blur, without introducing a dejudder mode. Many don't though and force dejudder on you.

A lot of people like dejudder or the "soap opera effect." I can't stand it.

This is different than what I am talking about though. Just wanted to make it clear that there is a benefit to higher refresh rates with LCD in particular, but that is a separate issue from the frames per second that a film is filmed at and how it's played back.

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post #5420 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 01:17 PM
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i wanna do 1920x800 because otherwise the XBMC GUI will have to be zoomed out because it's 16:9 unfortunatly. I'm all over the XBMC forums trying to get the aeon skins ported out to 2:35.1 but no takers yet. plus most newer games will launch at 1920x800 and i like to launch them from xbmc.

btw somebody go bump this
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=166340&pid=1459379#pid1459379
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post #5421 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 01:22 PM
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Thanks for the response. I went to a meeting and Amazon magically got more in. It states it maybe a day or two extra from normal prime. Order placed now I wait.
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post #5422 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

FYI : 24p at 60hz is completely, 100% solved in software without frame interpolation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post

Going from 24hz to 60hz does not introduce smoothing. 60 not being a multiple of 24 created the need for 3:2 pulldown, which creates hitches and stuttering, most easily spotted in pans (when the camera sweeps horizontally or vertically across the screen).


Ok, you guys tried to convert me to a videophile...

I was quite happy with the smoothness of any 24hz content in 60hz anyway, and I don't see much difference between 24hz and 60hz refresh rate. Of course that's why I'm not a videophile.

So while we're here, I'd like to do more test and comparison on 24hz content (should be 23.976???) in the following modes. My MPC is almost default and it does not change refresh rate when playing and I do not intend to let it to.

24hz playback - MPC default
60hz playback - MPC default
60hz playback - MPC with madVR -- Thanks rlburnside for this suggestion, as I have not used it in the past.

Then another round in 3D.

Can you also recommend a particular scene that might show significant judders or shudder? I'd like to use Avatar, as I can use it for both 2D and 3D test. I acutally have 3 Avatar mkvs, one for 2D, one for SBS, one for OU. I'm mad...
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post #5423 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 08:38 PM
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Is there anyway to view 1080i/60 3D material with Frame Packing and Top-Bottom format rather than just Side by Side? Would there be any benefit if you could? My DirectTV channels and 3d camcorder are in 1080i/60 and I always wondered if there would be a benefit of Frame packing/Top Bottom. Or is it just isn't compatible at all?
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post #5424 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 09:41 PM
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Would this projector be compatible, ceiling mounted about 15-16ft away from a 92" screen. I'm not really sure what in the hell all these calculators are trying to tell me, lol.
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post #5425 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 09:58 PM
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I can tell you right now without even looking at the calculator there is no way even the w1070 has a throw that's long enough to project an image that small from such a distance.

I'm about 8.5 feet away from my 100 inch screen, it's the max zoomed out I could get (or zoomed in? I always mix the two up). Anyway, the zoom slider is in such a way that 100 inches is the maximum fit at 16:9, so that when I will run it at 2.35 : 1, I can zoom out fully and roughly max out the width.

ps since updading my firmware, I didn't change it back to cinema mode and I see in black text here some blueish tints to some of the characters. Definitely going to switch back to Cinema mode to get rid of rainbows. Maybe it's a good idea to tinker with the firmware to force the wheel to 3X all the time. (if it isn't at 3X already)

pps I don't particularly care how much better Mad VR is than 3:2 pulldown (which I agree, isn't very good), since I always run SVP anyway, I love smoothing not blending, I think 24p is an affront to the human visual system, and as a 3d programmer who does tons of animation and special effects, I loathe that frame rate and wish it would die. Then again, interpolation is quite good now, and I'd rather they up the framerate to an even 30p to slowly convince people to let go of the (inferior) past. There is no argument for poor framerates that isn't an appeal to tradition, and in tech and science that's invalid, IMO. But to each their own. I get my smoothing, the industry will do what it will do. People are used to 60hz, it's widely seen on this little thing called TV.
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post #5426 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 10:21 PM
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Thanks for the response. It seems as though I'm going to have a hard time replacing my Panasonic ptae1000u. I was wanting to try dlp but can't seem to find anything around $1000 that'll work.
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post #5427 of 11359 Old 07-09-2013, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

FYI : 24p at 60hz is completely, 100% solved in software without frame interpolation.

I think it's called frame blending (which doesn't invent frames, it just blends between them smoothly in intermediary time slices). The result is no 3:2 cadence, ever. I think it's the new Mad VR that supports it. Anyway, look it up in the HTPC subforum, people there seem very satisfied at the panning / smoothness of it. Honestly I hate 24p and would never switch into it again if I could (except I play back my Blurays on my PS3 because I absolutely loathe fiddling with PowerDVD software updates and problems on the PC side of Bluray playback).

3:2 pulldown is also a type of fix for 60hz not being a multiple of 24, but it doesn't work very well. I'm sure whatever you are talking about doesn't work better than actually matching the cadence of the original, especially when it enables 144hz to help smooth motion further, which can be useful for 3D, so it still doesn't make sense to me, to not just match the cadence of the film proper...

I don't have a dog in the 24hz @ 60hz 3:2 pulldown tech, only what I read from the MadVR forum that I came across when I was looking up possible competitors to SVP. The MadVR blending is apparently very good, and blows 3:2 out of the water, but is completely different in implementation and purpose to frame interpolation. They have lots of comparisons in the thread and around the net, I encourage you to actually visit them, view the samples, and come to your own conclusion. I was surprised when I did the reading on it, but my curiosity ended there because I love interpolation (when done right). Still interesting tech though. People were clamouring for it to avoid seeing judder on ivy bridge intel mini itx boards that didn't properly support 24hz. If you have a display that supports 24hz, use that, but realize that it will absolutely suck for general windows desktop use. And changing your refresh rate all the time is a pain and annoyance. Life is too short.
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post #5428 of 11359 Old 07-10-2013, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by wofford29 View Post

Thanks for the response. It seems as though I'm going to have a hard time replacing my Panasonic ptae1000u. I was wanting to try dlp but can't seem to find anything around $1000 that'll work.

Optoma HD25 should work.......much longer throw, I seriously considered it for the same reason......we were spoiled with our Panny's :-)
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post #5429 of 11359 Old 07-10-2013, 06:25 AM
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I got my 110" Elite Screens "Sable" fixed screen up last night and it looks amazing with the BenQW1070! I basically put this together so I can play NHL hockey on my PS3 in the Man Cave Hideout. I just need to put up some curtains, setup my surround and add some acoustic panels over the white ceiling....but even as is, the picture is gorgeous!







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post #5430 of 11359 Old 07-10-2013, 07:30 AM
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Isn't it funny how your screen looks huge in person, but when you take a picture, it looks much smaller. I have a 100" screen and I took a photo and someone asked me why I went so small.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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