BenQ W1070 : DLP Full HD, 3D Ready with lens-shift for 1000$ - Page 337 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:56 AM
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BenQ W1070 : DLP Full HD, 3D Ready with lens-shift for 1000$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
I'd say it suffers from both white crush and black crush, problems that are under-reported with this projector. As to what you can do about it--calibrating with a color meter helps, and screen choice can make a big difference too; although it doesn't improve white crush that much, it can help with black levels.
I've run the AVS Calibration patterns in the past and don't get much clipping on either black or white (using the default settings - I tried the calibration in both Standard and Cinema modes.) This is under Firmware 1.08; for which I noticed that out-the-box, calibration was less required than before - in fact I think the biggest change I made was upping brightness from 50 to 51 to eradicate a drop of black clipping. (You're running the latest firmware, right?). The only B/W clipping I got was with WTW/BTB, which is as I'd expect on a consumer display.
Double-check the HDMI Mode you have set (to ensure that it's matching your player). If significant crush was a widespread issue, I suspect reviewers be less than pleased - and we'd hear all about it.

A very weird thing, though, as I mentioned a while back in this thread, is that on the AVS color stepping pattern, I had to toggle Color Temperature to another value, and then back, to prevent it from clipping some primaries. I have no idea why: I can only assume it's to do with projector's image processing (BC-related?) on the test pattern.
Watching actual video content, white (and high-saturation color) detail is preserved; as is shadow detail. Not that the latter looks all that great in any case with the mediocre black levels - but you know ;-)

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Last edited by kreeturez; 10-07-2014 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:29 AM
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If you're having trouble in dark scenes and bright scenes, try turning brightness to 52, contrast 45-47 and gamma to 2.0 or 2.1 and see if that helps. The amount of clipping should be small and easily fixed if it's the projector causing it. Shadow details are easier to see with lower gamma settings, which might've been the natural way of your old Sharp.

Also, make sure noise-reduction is turned off..it might be knocking down fine details otherwise.

Fixing clipping should not require any sort of meter or tool, it's easy to fix by eye using any simple test pattern or even a movie scene with near-white/near-black content like a sky scene with a blooming sun or a dark scene switched to show black bars on sides or top/bottom.
Do the lows first (with brightness) then the highs (with contrast) because the resultant brightness setting will affect where contrast needs to be, but not much/at-all the other way around.

With less accurate out-of-the-box displays you'll want to give brightness and contrast a second pass (in case contrast had to be adjusted so far that it actually affected where brightness should be), but the w1070 should only require a tiny bump which should be fine in one.
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Last edited by Ftoast; 10-07-2014 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
I've run the AVS Calibration patterns in the past and don't get much clipping on either black or white (using the default settings - I tried the calibration in both Standard and Cinema modes.) This is under Firmware 1.08; for which I noticed that out-the-box, calibration was less required than before - in fact I think the biggest change I made was upping brightness from 50 to 51 to eradicate a drop of black clipping. (You're running the latest firmware, right?).
No, I'm afraid I'm not. I'm stuck on very old firmware--can't remember at the moment, but I think it is 1.02?

Yes I would like to update my firmware but I'm scared to. Every guide I read has someone posting in the comments section about how they bricked their projector even though they followed the guide to the letter ...
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
If you're having trouble in dark scenes and bright scenes, try turning brightness to 52, contrast 45-47 and gamma to 2.0 or 2.1 and see if that helps. The amount of clipping should be small and easily fixed if it's the projector causing it. Shadow details are easier to see with lower gamma settings, which might've been the natural way of your old Sharp.

Also, make sure noise-reduction is turned off..it might be knocking down fine details otherwise.

Fixing clipping should not require any sort of meter or tool, it's easy to fix by eye using any simple test pattern or even a movie scene with near-white/near-black content like a sky scene with a blooming sun or a dark scene switched to show black bars on sides or top/bottom.
Do the lows first (with brightness) then the highs (with contrast) because the resultant brightness setting will affect where contrast needs to be, but not much/at-all the other way around.

With less accurate out-of-the-box displays you'll want to give brightness and contrast a second pass (in case contrast had to be adjusted so far that it actually affected where brightness should be), but the w1070 should only require a tiny bump which should be fine in one.
thanks, i will try out your suggestions. i played around with the settings last night and i agree with your comments regarding the gamma setting. i've read where some people had set it to 2.4 which i tried but that made the black crush worse. i will try out a lower gamma setting with a higher brightness - that makes sense, hopefully it will help. at this point, improving shadow detail would be the biggest thing for me.
so, when you say turn off the noise reduction do you mean set it to 0? i believe the default setting is at 7.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
No, I'm afraid I'm not. I'm stuck on very old firmware--can't remember at the moment, but I think it is 1.02?

Yes I would like to update my firmware but I'm scared to. Every guide I read has someone posting in the comments section about how they bricked their projector even though they followed the guide to the letter ...
You can always send it back to BenQ to let them do it for you. 1.02 is quite old.

I updated my firmware twice and it wasn't so bad. Really, I think people who bricked their projector probably (i.e. definitely) didn't follow the instructions to the letter because if they had, they wouldn't have bricked it.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:26 PM
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BenQ W1070 : DLP Full HD, 3D Ready with lens-shift for 1000$

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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
You can always send it back to BenQ to let them do it for you. 1.02 is quite old.



I updated my firmware twice and it wasn't so bad. Really, I think people who bricked their projector probably (i.e. definitely) didn't follow the instructions to the letter because if they had, they wouldn't have bricked it.

Yeah you're right. I did so 3 times and whilst it was a bit nerve-wracking, I didn't run into any serious issues. The additional 3D support of 1.06 (which takes advantage of this projector's truly outstanding 3D performance) and the much-faster HDMI detection that came with it was really worth it. Firmware 1.08... not quite as much

That said despite the out-the-box color improvements with newer firmware, even on the older 1.02, two-point contrast/brightness calibration should yield almost no clipping at either extreme.

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Old 10-07-2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
You can always send it back to BenQ to let them do it for you. 1.02 is quite old.

I updated my firmware twice and it wasn't so bad. Really, I think people who bricked their projector probably (i.e. definitely) didn't follow the instructions to the letter because if they had, they wouldn't have bricked it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
Yeah you're right. I did so 3 times and whilst it was a bit nerve-wracking, I didn't run into any serious issues. The additional 3D support of 1.06 (which takes advantage of this projector's truly outstanding 3D performance) and the much-faster HDMI detection that came with it was really worth it. Firmware 1.08... not quite as much

That said despite the out-the-box color improvements with newer firmware, even on the older 1.02, two-point contrast/brightness calibration should yield almost no clipping at either extreme.
Okay ... so which guide did you guys follow?

You've convinced me of the need to update.
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:01 PM
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Looking to replace my Optoma HD66 (mostly bedroom use sometime with light in the evening) in the next 2-4 months so doing some preliminary research, I have been very happy with the HD66 as it was relatively cheap at the time for a 720p, nice overall picture and it was fairly bright as well. Looking for a PJ that is just as bright if not brighter than the HD66, nicer picture than HD66, 3D capable for gaming only, SD/HD movies, TV, 1080p, not too noisy, and less than $800.

I think I have it narrowed down to 1.) BenQ W1070 2.) Optoma HD141X 3.) Optoma HD25-LV.

Questions.

1.) How loud is the W1070, we have it fairly close to our heads?
2.) What kind of difference can I expect between the W1070 and my current HD66 as far as brightness and picture quality?
3.) What kind of results can I expect from the W1070 for 3D gaming?
4.) Any other suggestions or input as to my requirements, or is there anything that is expected to launch in the near future to where I might want to hold off?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
You can always send it back to BenQ to let them do it for you. 1.02 is quite old.

I updated my firmware twice and it wasn't so bad. Really, I think people who bricked their projector probably (i.e. definitely) didn't follow the instructions to the letter because if they had, they wouldn't have bricked it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
Yeah you're right. I did so 3 times and whilst it was a bit nerve-wracking, I didn't run into any serious issues. The additional 3D support of 1.06 (which takes advantage of this projector's truly outstanding 3D performance) and the much-faster HDMI detection that came with it was really worth it. Firmware 1.08... not quite as much

That said despite the out-the-box color improvements with newer firmware, even on the older 1.02, two-point contrast/brightness calibration should yield almost no clipping at either extreme.
Okay ... so which guide did you guys follow?

You've convinced me of the need to update.
I am looking to update as well. Which guide did you use and recommend?
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahulp001 View Post
I am looking to update as well. Which guide did you use and recommend?
The guide I used personally was in a PDF file available from a link that's now down.

However, it appears you can still grab the latest firmware - 1.08 - from here.

I can't vouch for the quality of the instructions listed there (since I no longer have the ones I used to compare to); but the firmware IMG file supplied there has a CRC that matches the one I have; so it is definitely the correct firmware. To be safe, you can compare the instructions there to those posted throughout this thread: although most commenters over there seem to be sorted.

Caution, please - there's risk involved, here! Also if you're running Firmware 1.06 or newer, there's very little good reason to do this. (The 'Firmware Changelogs' section tells you what's changed in each version of the firmware).

One particularly important instruction to follow - that could potentially brick your projector if set incorrectly - is this:
"In the 'Complete Image Download' section, set 'skip blootloader area:' to 32kb"!

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Old 10-07-2014, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
The only B/W clipping I got was with WTW/BTB, which is as I'd expect on a consumer display.
The B/W clipping on this projector *is* WTW and BTB, and seems to be in contrast with most consumer displays, which are able to display WTW and BTB. And it's odd that it's not more often mentioned in reviews (though it is mentioned occasionally).

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Old 10-07-2014, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
The guide I used personally was in a PDF file available from a link that's now down.

However, it appears you can still grab the latest firmware - 1.08 - from here.

I can't vouch for the quality of the instructions listed there (since I no longer have the ones I used to compare to); but the firmware IMG file supplied there has a CRC that matches the one I have; so it is definitely the correct firmware. To be safe, you can compare the instructions there to those posted throughout this thread: although most commenters over there seem to be sorted.

Caution, please - there's risk involved, here! Also if you're running Firmware 1.06 or newer, there's very little good reason to do this. (The 'Firmware Changelogs' section tells you what's changed in each version of the firmware).

One particularly important instruction to follow - that could potentially brick your projector if set incorrectly - is this:
"In the 'Complete Image Download' section, set 'skip blootloader area:' to 32kb"!
I've read posts from people who say 1.08 has issues, something to do with fan speed. One of the posters who bricked his projector said he did it while trying to downgrade from 1.08 ...
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:24 PM
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What about you, RLBURNSIDE?

What guide did you follow? Help us out here ...
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
I've read posts from people who say 1.08 has issues, something to do with fan speed. One of the posters who bricked his projector said he did it while trying to downgrade from 1.08 ...
I've run 1.08 (after upgrading from 1.06) for many months and there're definitely no fan issues. It's a good release. I just wouldn't say it's worth it for users whom are already on 1.06; but that's just my opinion
1.08 is also what ships with every new W1070 sold; so if there were widespread problems like that... well, 1.09 would probably be out by now

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Old 10-08-2014, 07:33 AM
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Are you guys using the "PC" setting on the hdmi mode selection? I'm not having any clipping of WTW or BTB when I use that.
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Last edited by acer; 10-08-2014 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:39 AM
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ok, so i did a little google searching on calibrating the w1070 and came across an article which mentions the clipping of the blacks and whites.

here's an excerpt: "The best mode uncalibrated was the default User mode. It had the best grayscale numbers, and the best color numbers as well. When using the HDMI input, color and tint controls are disabled, so unless you have calibration equipment, all that you will be configuring on the BenQ are the brightness, contrast, and sharpness controls. Setting those is much easier when Whiter-than-White and Blacker-than-Black are visible, but those are clipped by default. They can be made visible by setting the HDMI Mode to PC from Auto, which I would recommend doing."

so i put the hdmi setting to PC and what do you know, the clipping was gone. i got a nice grayscale by setting my brightness to 49, contrast 50 gamma 2.2 and sharpness 13. i used Sightseeker1's color settings (page 331 of this thread) and i'm getting a nice balanced picture. much happier now .
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:47 AM
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Can anyone confirm whether or not auto recognizes the difference between PC and BD/film-limited in later firmware? I don't remember having to switch the source-mode for PC when I had it (mine was on 1.08), but my PC also tends to default to 16-235/film-limited for new external displays..I'm usually good about switching the PC over to full/0-255 though.

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Last edited by Ftoast; 10-08-2014 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acer View Post
Are you guys using the "PC" setting on the hdmi mode selection? I'm not having any clipping of WTW or BTB when I use that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post
"They can be made visible by setting the HDMI Mode to PC from Auto, which I would recommend doing."

so i put the hdmi setting to PC and what do you know, the clipping was gone. i got a nice grayscale by setting my brightness to 49, contrast 50 gamma 2.2 and sharpness 13. i used Sightseeker1's color settings (page 331 of this thread) and i'm getting a nice balanced picture. much happier now .
Yeah, that setting is what I meant by this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
Double-check the [projector] HDMI Mode you have set (to ensure that it's matching your player/source).


Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
The B/W clipping on this projector *is* WTW and BTB, and seems to be in contrast with most consumer displays, which are able to display WTW and BTB. And it's odd that it's not more often mentioned in reviews (though it is mentioned occasionally).
Again, that's down to the selected HDMI mode (which can be set on the projector to display it) as well as personal preference...

I suppose whether BTB and WTW is really wanted in the calibrated image is up to personal choice since it's not content that appears much in consumer video (even Bluray). Setting maximum white to above reference actually costs brightness in normal video (since that range is almost entirely unused); and brightness on a projector is not normally something you'd want to waste (though the W1070 does have brightness to spare, I suppose). Same applies to raising the black floor to support BTB (which perhaps matters more since black levels are not spectacular to begin with). I did elect to calibrate to clip both when calibrating; but once again - that's up to individual taste and I can certainly understand why others wouldn't want it clipped.

Great articles on this here and here. From the former Spears and Munsil link (which describes calibrating for Bluray):
Quote:
How exactly to resolve this quandary involves considering what you consider most important and what your viewing conditions are. If what you want is the punchiest possible video, or you routinely watch video in a room with a significant amount of light, you may want to consider deliberately calibrating to maximize reference white and clipping the above-reference range.
There's also a bit of a contrast advantage to doing so. But once again: personal taste!

Regardless - good to hear that you guys are sorted in either case!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Can anyone confirm whether or not auto recognizes the difference between PC and BD/film-limited in later firmware? I don't remember having to switch the source-mode for PC when I had it (mine was on 1.08), but my PC also tends to default to 16-235/film-limited for new external displays..I'm usually good about switching the PC over to full/0-255 though.
'Auto' seems to default to limited color range regardless of input; even in 1.08. Which is probably why you didn't need to change it
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Last edited by kreeturez; 10-08-2014 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:07 AM
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yeah my room has black painted walls and ceiling so i don't need BTB. and WTW just looks offensive. anyway, thanks for the info. this is a very helpful thread. what in the world did we do before there were message boards???
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
I've run 1.08 (after upgrading from 1.06) for many months and there're definitely no fan issues. It's a good release. I just wouldn't say it's worth it for users whom are already on 1.06; but that's just my opinion
1.08 is also what ships with every new W1070 sold; so if there were widespread problems like that... well, 1.09 would probably be out by now
Well I guess that's what I get for trusting some random poster on another site. I trust my fellow avs members a lot more. I'll look for 1.08. Might post the link to the guy who said there were issues with 1.08 if I can find it again ...

Still hoping for a decent guide to updating the firmware ...

... anyone?
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:10 PM
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I think I have answered part of my own question. Using test from projector centrals reviews, looks like the W1070 is significantly less bright than the HD66.

W1070 880 lumens (Cinema/Eco mode) to 1554 max lumens.
HD66 1227 lumens (movie/Low lamp mode) to 1979 max lumens.

Any suggestions on a PJ that is in the range of the HD66 as far as lumens but cost effective in the sub $800 range plus 1080p and 3D, LOL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako PJ View Post
Looking to replace my Optoma HD66 (mostly bedroom use sometime with light in the evening) in the next 2-4 months so doing some preliminary research, I have been very happy with the HD66 as it was relatively cheap at the time for a 720p, nice overall picture and it was fairly bright as well. Looking for a PJ that is just as bright if not brighter than the HD66, nicer picture than HD66, 3D capable for gaming only, SD/HD movies, TV, 1080p, not too noisy, and less than $800.

I think I have it narrowed down to 1.) BenQ W1070 2.) Optoma HD141X 3.) Optoma HD25-LV.

Questions.

1.) How loud is the W1070, we have it fairly close to our heads?
2.) What kind of difference can I expect between the W1070 and my current HD66 as far as brightness and picture quality?
3.) What kind of results can I expect from the W1070 for 3D gaming?
4.) Any other suggestions or input as to my requirements, or is there anything that is expected to launch in the near future to where I might want to hold off?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako PJ View Post
I think I have answered part of my own question. Using test from projector centrals reviews, looks like the W1070 is significantly less bright than the HD66.

W1070 880 lumens (Cinema/Eco mode) to 1554 max lumens.
HD66 1227 lumens (movie/Low lamp mode) to 1979 max lumens.

Any suggestions on a PJ that is in the range of the HD66 as far as lumens but cost effective in the sub $800 range plus 1080p and 3D, LOL?
The HD66 doesn't touch the W1070 on color lumens. Nor does the HD25LV or 141x models. The W1070 is far brighter when showing 'color' content vs. pure white lumens which is how brightness is often measured. The new CLO (Color Light Output) specification should always be considered when reading brightness claims.

The www.colorlightoutput.com website isn't working right now, but it's worth looking over to get a good idea of what the W1070 really can deliver, vs some of the Optoma models.

I use the W1070 on a 161" screen, in low power mode, and it looks good in both 2D and 3D at that size.

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Old 10-08-2014, 04:00 PM
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The www.colorlightoutput.com website isn't working right now, but it's worth looking over to get a good idea of what the W1070 really can deliver, vs some of the Optoma models.

I use the W1070 on a 161" screen, in low power mode, and it looks good in both 2D and 3D at that size.
Thank you for the valuable insight and link, I will check it out when its back up. By my calculations, my screen will be in the 95-110 inch range if I purchase the W1070. Hmmm, okay now I am leaning to the W1070 as that is really only $50-100 more.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:05 AM
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3D Question


When playing Bluray 3D

Is the HDMI Input changing to 3D Frame Parking 24Hz or 60Hz?

Thanks!
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:08 AM
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When playing Bluray 3D

Is the HDMI Input changing to 3D Frame Parking 24Hz or 60Hz?
Frame packing - It takes the left image and the right image and packs it into a single frame.

This is sent as a 1920x2205 frame, and the projector breaks it into the left eye/right eye components automatically.

My experience has been that the projector handles all of this automatically. I have my Panasonic BD player running directly to the projector. I drop a disc in, and the projector recognizes it as 3D, and switches over to 3D playback. Works perfectly with my DLP Link glasses.

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Old 10-09-2014, 10:22 AM
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Frame packing - It takes the left image and the right image and packs it into a single frame.

This is sent as a 1920x2205 frame, and the projector breaks it into the left eye/right eye components automatically.

My experience has been that the projector handles all of this automatically. I have my Panasonic BD player running directly to the projector. I drop a disc in, and the projector recognizes it as 3D, and switches over to 3D playback. Works perfectly with my DLP Link glasses.
Do your HDMI input change to 1080p 24hz or is it already set to 1080p 24hz?
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:30 AM
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Do your HDMI input change to 1080p 24hz or is it already set to 1080p 24hz?
Minechanges to 1080p 24hz automatically, using either the PS3 or Samsung BR player.
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:00 PM
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Do your HDMI input change to 1080p 24hz or is it already set to 1080p 24hz?
The output of the Blu-ray Disc player changes from 1080p/60 or 1080p/24 to frame packed 1080p/24 automatically. There is no change you need to make manually to either the projector or the player. The projector automatically switches to 3D mode, which is brighter than standard viewing, and the BD player automatically handles putting out the proper frame packed 3D viewing material. It proved to be plug-n-play for me on using 3D. I just bought a commercial 3D movie and popped it in.

Worth saying: My Panasonic BD player with the projector did not like when I shut down the system with a 3D disc in the player. The player would claim I didn't have it connected to a 3D capable display. Ejecting the disc, and putting it back in fixed that issue. It was consistent to have that occur, and consistent on how I could fix it.
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:44 PM
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The output of the Blu-ray Disc player changes from 1080p/60 or 1080p/24 to frame packed 1080p/24 automatically. There is no change you need to make manually to either the projector or the player. The projector automatically switches to 3D mode, which is brighter than standard viewing, and the BD player automatically handles putting out the proper frame packed 3D viewing material. It proved to be plug-n-play for me on using 3D. I just bought a commercial 3D movie and popped it in.

Worth saying: My Panasonic BD player with the projector did not like when I shut down the system with a 3D disc in the player. The player would claim I didn't have it connected to a 3D capable display. Ejecting the disc, and putting it back in fixed that issue. It was consistent to have that occur, and consistent on how I could fix it.

Thanks!

This answers my question..
I taught Full 3D Bluray display in 1080 p/60hz...
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:47 PM
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Thanks!

This answers my question..
No problem at all.

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I thought Full 3D Bluray display in 1080 p/60hz...
Unfortunately, no. In fact, the HDMI 1.4 specification doesn't allow for this, and HDMI 1.4 doesn't have the bandwidth to support 1080p/60hz frame packed 3D, or 1800p/120hz material.

Since movies are shot at 24hz, it works out just fine for movies, and IMO, looks better than what you typically see at a movie theater as long as you are using decent 3D DLP Link glasses.

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