BenQ W1070 : DLP Full HD, 3D Ready with lens-shift for 1000$ - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post

That's a good idea. I'm thinking of simply just moving the projector back in the box a couple of inches. My only concern with that is the bottom of the image hitting the bottom of the box.
The BenQ Store online has them for $1099 in stock right now with free FedEx ground shipping. I wish I would have taken that route. I doubt this project gets below $1000 for a couple of years due to already being a fantastic value at an $1100 price point. Hope I'm wrong though!
it will drop in a couple of months, like all projectors.
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post #1352 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

it will drop in a couple of months, like all projectors.


I am with you.

At the very least, we should see some sales around Memorial and Indepence days. But that's another 5-6 months away.

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post #1353 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post

That's a good idea. I'm thinking of simply just moving the projector back in the box a couple of inches. My only concern with that is the bottom of the image hitting the bottom of the box.
The BenQ Store online has them for $1099 in stock right now with free FedEx ground shipping. I wish I would have taken that route. I doubt this project gets below $1000 for a couple of years due to already being a fantastic value at an $1100 price point. Hope I'm wrong though!


It will.

Once this projector sees competitions from Acer, Optoma, Viewsonic, etc.

All things drop. You'll be amazed that you can get this projector a year later for half the price. LOL
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post #1354 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 11:43 AM
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Does anyone know if Amazon is an authorized BenQ reseller? I am assuming they are but wanted to know if I should cancel my order for the W1080ST and just get it from the BenQ Shop since it's the same price and they at least have an estimated ship date. Only confusing thing on the BenQ site is that there are two listings for the W1080ST with different SKUs (as there also is with the W1070) and I'm not sure what the difference is.
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post #1355 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 12:27 PM
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Can anyone speak to the negative side effects of putting some very light, airy foam in front of the fan? I'm thinking of put something in front of the fan exhaust. I think the foam might melt if its too close though...
I use the max zoom on my setup with my W1070 and I do not see any negative effects. If it is a true optical zoom this should be the case with just about every projector with that feature. Digital zoom is a different story, obviously.

Thanks for the reply. I suppose even if there is some negative effect of zooming in it wont be much. I only asked because Im a part time photographer and on zoom lenses when you zoom all the way to the maximum or minimum end of a lens you start seeing increased chromatic aberrations, soft corners and some barrel distortion. And since Im new to projectors I wasn't sure how the lens in a PJ behaves. I assumed the glass quality would have to be pretty decent so optics should be good enough to not have any significant effect on picture quality. But I thought I would ask anyways and make sure.

As for your idea of using some light airy foam to stop the light leakage.... It just seems like a bad idea to be honest scotty. Do you think some kind of a mesh screen material put over top of the area grill area will reduce the light leakage? This way you can creatively put this over the grill on the outside and keep it as far away as possible from the internals of the PJ. Just an idea. Photographers use these things called "barn doors" to direct and shape light coming from a off camera flash source, maybe create some custom "barn doors" to direct the light leakage in a spot where its favourable. Another thought. Although Im not sure how you would implement either idea.
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post #1356 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 01:34 PM
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I just purchased this projector on the strength of Art’s review. I got it set up on Wednesday and have watched a few movie scenes and a couple of episodes of Person of interest. I’ve just read this thread through from start to finish and there are a few recurring themes/questions. I’ll try and deal with them one by one:

1.Menus: Picture adjustment menus remain open if you access them through the setup menu and do take up a bit of screen space. You can however adjust basic picture settings such as brightness and contrast using the direct button on the remote and this only displays a slider bar towards the bottom of the screen.

2.Tint Control: Video controls such as tint are greyed out when using digital signals. This is how it should be as “Tint Control” is only relevant to analogue NTSC signals which are susceptible to having the colour information slightly out of phase with the remaining picture information thus producing incorrect colours that are particularly noticeable with skin tones. In the digital world this is not possible and any issues with skin tone are due to other issues which need to be addressed in other ways. The W1070 has excellent calibration controls in order to do this.

3.Colour Wheel Speed Consistency: Unlike the W7000 I believe the W1070 remains at 6x speed continuously. I tried switching between low power Cinema mode and high power Dynamic mode and there was no audible difference from the colour wheel. Also, the W1070 takes a split second or so to syncronise with a new colour wheel speed (changing from 50hz to 60hz or 24hz) and displays flickering while this occurs. I believe that if it was changing from 6x to 4x it would not only be audible but visible as well. I neither see nor hear any sign of this.

4.Colour Wheel Speed:
  • NTSC is 60hz (60 times per second) = 3600 times per minute
  • 1X wheel speed = 3600 rpm
  • 2x wheel speed = 7200 rpm
  • 3 x wheel speed = 10800 rpm


There is nothing faster. To get multiples of these manufacturers add second colour elements to the wheel so the wheel is rgbrgb thus doubling the effective rate. This is how it’s always been done and as such it is a “true 6x” wheel.

5.Lens size:
  • Diameter of Outside of plastic housing = 45mm
  • Diameter of Inner section of lens including black plastic ring = 38mm
  • Diameter of actual glass = 33mm


Sorry. Never fitted an ND filter so don’t know which measurement you need.

6.VP4001 Comparison: Coincidentally I’ve just replaced my Marantz VP4001 with this projector. Unfortunately the reason I replaced it was because mine stopped working so any comparison is from memory rather than a true A/B comparison. The projectors are very similar in that they are extremely sharp and very bright (VP4001 was one of the brightest home cinema projectors when calibrated). I’m sure the lens of the VP4001 was superior but the W1070 can resolve a 1080P 1:1 test pattern virtually perfectly and doesn’t suffer from much chromatic aberration at all. Certainly nothing visible from a normal seating position. The W1070 displays far more detail than the 4001. Textures on peoples clothing are clearly evident. Skin tones seem more natural and I’m pretty sure there’s more shadow detail but without doing a proper A/B I wouldn’t bet my house on it. If you like your VP4001 I’m sure you’ll like the W1070. Is it worth an upgrade? I’m not going to make that decision for you I’m afraid.

7.Light leakage. Pretty bad and off horizontally to the left if you have the PJ ceiling mounted. It comes out at roughly 45 degrees so will more than likely be on visible on your side wall.

8.Firmware: My firmware is 1.02 and I have not detected any flickering.

Hope this was of assistance. Any further questions I’ll be happy to answer (so long as it doesn’t relate to 3D, computers or gaming). I’ll try and work up a bit of a review over the next few days but I really need to watch it some more first.
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post #1357 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Preacher1973 View Post


6.VP4001 Comparison: Coincidentally I’ve just replaced my Marantz VP4001 with this projector. Unfortunately the reason I replaced it was because mine stopped working so any comparison is from memory rather than a true A/B comparison. The projectors are very similar in that they are extremely sharp and very bright (VP4001 was one of the brightest home cinema projectors when calibrated). I’m sure the lens of the VP4001 was superior but the W1070 can resolve a 1080P 1:1 test pattern virtually perfectly and doesn’t suffer from much chromatic aberration at all. Certainly nothing visible from a normal seating position. The W1070 displays far more detail than the 4001. Textures on peoples clothing are clearly evident. Skin tones seem more natural and I’m pretty sure there’s more shadow detail but without doing a proper A/B I wouldn’t bet my house on it. If you like your VP4001 I’m sure you’ll like the W1070. Is it worth an upgrade? I’m not going to make that decision for you I’m afraid.

Thank you for your response! Makes me feel more sure the W1070 is the way to go. It looked like they were going to be very similar from the specs and tests. The fine detail or lack there of on the VP4001 is something I was looking to improve. The VP4001 I always thought had pretty average shadow detail so another plus to the W1070. Thanks again!
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post #1358 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 02:30 PM
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Already purchased my 1070 but consider this lowered (just reduced?) price at this link:

http://www.visualapex.com/BenQ/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=W1070&SE=GoogleShopping&KW=W1070&gclid=CIC257Ts8rQCFaN_QgodalYAXQ
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post #1359 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 02:48 PM
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Has anyone had the chance to see the w1070 against an Epson 3010 or 3020? I just bought an Epson that I'm having too many optical issues with. And I just read some reviews for the w1070, making me think this might be a better choice. I have a few days left where I can return the Epson in favor of the BenQ. I've heard that DLP units aren't usually as bright as LCD's, but if the unit looks fantastic it's worth giving up a few lumens for a better unit.

Thanks.

Ian
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post #1360 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder_God_Thor View Post

As for your idea of using some light airy foam to stop the light leakage.... It just seems like a bad idea to be honest scotty. Do you think some kind of a mesh screen material put over top of the area grill area will reduce the light leakage? This way you can creatively put this over the grill on the outside and keep it as far away as possible from the internals of the PJ. Just an idea. Photographers use these things called "barn doors" to direct and shape light coming from a off camera flash source, maybe create some custom "barn doors" to direct the light leakage in a spot where its favourable. Another thought. Although Im not sure how you would implement either idea.
I'll play around a bit. First option is to move the PJ a bit back in the box. I will probably play around with a few extensions on the side to block the light. One concern moving the PJ back in the box is more exhaust in the box itself.
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Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

I wonder though if the projector has enough room to breath, especially through the side intake.

I'm keeping an eye on that as well... so far so good... the exhaust is venting out of the box and the ambient temp inside the box is consistent with room temperature after about an hour of use. No signs of overheating. If it comes to it I have considered cutting holes and install a minimalist grille on the side for better ventilation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ered View Post

Already purchased my 1070 but consider this lowered (just reduced?) price at this link:

http://www.visualapex.com/BenQ/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=W1070&SE=GoogleShopping&KW=W1070&gclid=CIC257Ts8rQCFaN_QgodalYAXQ

WOW - amazing deal. I would hop on this asap. Wish I would have waited one week to pull the trigger on this from visual apex.
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post #1361 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ered View Post

Already purchased my 1070 but consider this lowered (just reduced?) price at this link:

http://www.visualapex.com/BenQ/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=W1070&SE=GoogleShopping&KW=W1070&gclid=CIC257Ts8rQCFaN_QgodalYAXQ

yikes, I was just about to blindly pull the trigger on this but decided to check a few things with the calculator. I would need to move up to a 133" screen for this to sit 14.5 feet back where my SP7210 is currently at. Either that or some major work modifying and most likely damaging my star ceiling. bummer!

Doesn't seem I'll have any placement problem with a W7000. I guess I'll need to wait on a good deal for that. About 1 grand more than this W1070 currently.

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post #1362 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 02:59 PM
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Wow, that's a good price.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
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post #1363 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by teeger View Post

Has anyone had the chance to see the w1070 against an Epson 3010 or 3020? I just bought an Epson that I'm having too many optical issues with. And I just read some reviews for the w1070, making me think this might be a better choice. I have a few days left where I can return the Epson in favor of the BenQ. I've heard that DLP units aren't usually as bright as LCD's, but if the unit looks fantastic it's worth giving up a few lumens for a better unit.

Thanks.

Ian

The W1070 is extremely bright after calibration. The Epson is only brighter uncalibrated.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq/w1070/performance.php#bright
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post #1364 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:03 PM
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Yah, but no-one has measured 3D lumens yet, that is what I am most interested in.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
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post #1365 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:06 PM
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One thing I notice is that Visual Apex has the W1070 as a 3D-Ready projector and the W7000 as a 3D projector with processor built in? Is this correct, I thought the W1070 also has the processor built in.

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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yah, but no-one has measured 3D lumens yet, that is what I am most interested in.

No one calibrates in 3D mode that is why.
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post #1367 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

One thing I notice is that Visual Apex has the W1070 as a 3D-Ready projector and the W7000 as a 3D projector with processor built in? Is this correct, I thought the W1070 also has the processor built in.
The W1070 does have it built in. All you need to bring to the party is the glasses.
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post #1368 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:12 PM
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It does not matter if you calibrate or not. 3D lumens are measured with a light meter by just placing the PJ into 3D mode and checking it, this gives a good reference compared to other projectors.
Yes it does matter. We know this for almost every other projector.

Approximate:

Optoma hd33 = 900 lumens in 3D mode
Optoma hd8300 = 750 lumes in 3d mode
Benq w7000 = 1100 lumens in 3D mode
Acer h9500bd = 700 lumens in 3D mode
JVC's = 600 to 900 lumens (depends on model)
Sony's = 900 to 1000+ lumens (hw30, hw50)
Epson 5010/5020 = 1300 to 1600 lumens in 3d

Epsons are the reigning champions in 3D brightness for now.


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post #1369 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It does not matter if you calibrate or not. 3D lumens are measured with a light meter by just placing the PJ into 3D mode and checking it, this gives a good reference compared to other projectors.
Yes it does matter. We know this for almost every other projector.

Approximate:

Optoma hd33 = 900 lumens in 3D mode
Optoma hd8300 = 750 lumes in 3d mode
Benq w7000 = 1100 lumens in 3D mode
Acer h9500bd = 700 lumens in 3D mode
JVC's = 600 to 900 lumens (depends on model)
Sony's = 900 to 1000+ lumens (hw30, hw50)
Epson 5010/5020 = 1300 to 1600 lumens in 3d

Epsons are the reigning champions in 3D brightness for now.

It does matter. In the case of a W1070 are you going put the light meter behind the active glasses? Same with passive polarized setups. What exactly do you think you measuring?
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post #1370 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yah, but no-one has measured 3D lumens yet, that is what I am most interested in.

But don't forget that 3D with DLP is so much better than on a LCD system....
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post #1371 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:26 PM
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You just turn the PJ into 3D mode and take a measurement just like 2D, you do not measure behind the glasses. We've had this same conversation in this thread multiple times (not with you but with others). Several of us have been doing this for a while now, and it is a pretty precise indicator of how bright the PJ will be (not exact) in 3D modes compared to others, because most glasses between projectors are within 10% of light loss, and most cheap light meters have 5-10% error anyways at least. We don't need a measurement of light loss after the glasses.

A projector can be 2000+ lumens in 2D and still only do 1000 in 3D modes, there is other stuff going on the PJ has to do in 3D mode even before the glasses which reduces the brightness far down from what a 2D torch mode allows.

I agree 3D on this projector will beat an LCD (didn't say it wouldn't), but I'm just curious to how bright it is in 3D mode, that's all.


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post #1372 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Preacher1973 View Post


3.Colour Wheel Speed Consistency: Unlike the W7000 I believe the W1070 remains at 6x speed continuously. I tried switching between low power Cinema mode and high power Dynamic mode and there was no audible difference from the colour wheel. Also, the W1070 takes a split second or so to syncronise with a new colour wheel speed (changing from 50hz to 60hz or 24hz) and displays flickering while this occurs. I believe that if it was changing from 6x to 4x it would not only be audible but visible as well. I neither see nor hear any sign of this.

I can easily hear difference in color wheel speed on my W1070. Here is how it is modes i tested, 24hz, 50hz, 60hz 2D and 3D.

Lowest speed is 24hz 2D and 50hz 3D, about same.

Second lowest speed is 60hz 2D/3D, no change in color wheel speed 2D vs 3D.

Fastest speed is 24hz 3D and 50hz 2D, about same.

Hard to tell what are the actual speeds but i would estimate this is 2x, 2.5x, 3x machine. You can multiply these by two to get effective speed.
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post #1373 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You just turn the PJ into 3D mode and take a measurement just like 2D, you do not measure behind the glasses. We've had this same conversation in this thread multiple times (not with you but with others). Several of us have been doing this for a while now, and it is a pretty precise indicator of how bright the PJ will be (not exact) in 3D modes compared to others, because most glasses between projectors are within 10% of light loss, and most cheap light meters have 5-10% error anyways at least. We don't need a measurement of light loss after the glasses.

A projector can be 2000+ lumens in 2D and still only do 1000 in 3D modes, there is other stuff going on the PJ has to do in 3D mode even before the glasses which reduces the brightness far down from what a 2D torch mode allows.

I agree 3D on this projector will beat an LCD (didn't say it wouldn't), but I'm just curious to how bright it is in 3D mode, that's all.

You are missing my point entirely. Putting the PJ in 3D mode and measuring output doesn't tell you as a viewer anything. Measurements you need to take are from the perspective of a viewer. In 2D my eyes have nothing, but air to view through so the lumen output has meaning. When you are looking through glasses you are darkening the viewing experience. Glasses are not all made the same. One model can be darker than the next. Color shifts in the lenses are also present. Ballparking light loss isn't measuring. Which is it? Precise or not exact? Those terms are contrary to each other. The viewer's experience is why we calibrate displays and then measure lumen output. It does matter and the goal is to be precise.

Have you ever read SpectraCal's workflow for 3D calibration? Look at how many calibration steps require you to wear the glasses.
http://store.spectracal.com/3d-calibration
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post #1374 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ered View Post

Already purchased my 1070 but consider this lowered (just reduced?) price at this link:

http://www.visualapex.com/BenQ/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=W1070&SE=GoogleShopping&KW=W1070&gclid=CIC257Ts8rQCFaN_QgodalYAXQ


Whoaaa...Drop it another $50 and I am in.

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post #1375 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 04:10 PM
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You are missing my point entirely. Putting the PJ in 3D mode and measuring output doesn't tell you as a viewer anything. Measurements you need to take are from the perspective of a viewer. In 2D my eyes have nothing, but air to view through so the lumen output has meaning. When you are looking through glasses you are darkening the viewing experience. Glasses are not all made the same. One model can be darker than the next. Color shifts in the lenses are also present. Ballparking light loss isn't measuring. Which is it? Precise or not exact? Those terms are contrary to each other. The viewer's experience is why we calibrate displays and then measure lumen output. It does matter and the goal is to be precise.

Have you ever read SpectraCal's workflow for 3D calibration? Look at how many calibration steps require you to wear the glasses.
http://store.spectracal.com/3d-calibration

I disagree...

2D benchmarking tells you nothing because almost no one has a truly matt black pitch black room with no refletive surfaces. So how it looks to you will be different to everyone.

The only thing you can do is measure it in a similar a way as possible and then everyone has to realize that the surroundings will change how it looks to you, but relative to other options you have a benchmark to work off of.

Same with 3D and glasses.

Sure it all depends on what glasses you use but that's the same for everyone. These measurements don't tell you exactly what you will see, but they do tell you that one projector will be brigher with the same glasses than another.

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post #1376 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ered View Post

Already purchased my 1070 but consider this lowered (just reduced?) price at this link:

http://www.visualapex.com/BenQ/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=W1070&SE=GoogleShopping&KW=W1070&gclid=CIC257Ts8rQCFaN_QgodalYAXQ

Good lord... I have no where to even put this right now but so tempting...

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post #1377 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Devedander View Post

Good lord... I have no where to even put this right now but so tempting...


I will temporarily keep it for you.......FREE of charge wink.gif
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post #1378 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Despoiler View Post

You are missing my point entirely. Putting the PJ in 3D mode and measuring output doesn't tell you as a viewer anything.

Some of us have tested many of these projectors in our own rooms and taken the measurements, no measurement is exact. Cheap light meters give 5% to 10% error or more anyhow, and this is absolutely the ONLY way we have right now to compare 3D brightness, and it absolutely helps in a huge way and is ABSOLUTELY ballpark to give an idea of 3D brightness. Unless you buy specific glasses that are taking the light loss way down (which only a few do), then as I said before they are generally within 10% (the same as the error margin of the measurement).

You will not beat the Epson in 3D brightness unless this PJ happens to be brighter (we dont know, but I doubt it), and this is no matter what glasses or calibration you do and this is backed up by our own lumens measurements, and most of the time the pre-calibration gray-scale in 3D on these projectors is just too cool (green or blue), so although a calibration causes some further light loss, it is not generally huge in 3D mode and you can still use 3D uncalibrated anyways. You are considering 2D torch modes relating to 3D torch modes, but these do not relate well. Calibration actually adds another level of subjectivity because of meter errors and user-calibration errors, so unless the person is using a spectrometer, or a profiled or a relatively new D3 from T.Huffman / Chromapure to calibrate, and a $200+ light meter, then I wouldn't trust the post-calibrated lumens measurement in 3D anyways.

I am more concerned about the default 3D mode before calibration of how it measures, the other measurements can be added in also to compare, but measuring this has NOT SKEWED the visible brightness we see between the projectors when we test with A/B, it absolutely has followed the same general visible trend as measured when comparing to A/B in the same room (even with different glasses, with only a few exceptions of really dark glasses).

I have Spectracal version 5 with a C6, but would generally recommend Chromapure with a D3 instead.


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post #1379 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 04:53 PM
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Codeguy, I hope you get a chance to test and compare this projector with others you have tried.
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post #1380 of 10636 Old 01-18-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JaMiR View Post

I can easily hear difference in color wheel speed on my W1070. Here is how it is modes i tested, 24hz, 50hz, 60hz 2D and 3D.

Lowest speed is 24hz 2D and 50hz 3D, about same.

Second lowest speed is 60hz 2D/3D, no change in color wheel speed 2D vs 3D.

Fastest speed is 24hz 3D and 50hz 2D, about same.

Hard to tell what are the actual speeds but i would estimate this is 2x, 2.5x, 3x machine. You can multiply these by two to get effective speed.

There still seems to be some confusion about how a DLP works and what the speed of the wheel signifies. If you read point 4. in my post above I tried to explain it.

1x refers to the wheel spinning as many times in a minute as the screen refreshes. Hence 60hz multiplied by 60 seconds gives 3600rpm. For a 3x wheel you multiply that by 3 and get 10800rpm.

For 50hz it refreshes at 50 times per second. Multiply that by 60 and you get 3000rpm. Multiply that by 3x and you get 9000rpm.

Therefore:

3x at 60hz = 10800rpm
3x at 50hz = 9000rpm.

They are different speeds yet still rated the same way.

Now read my point 3. above again.

The question that had been asked was if the W1070 changed speed when you changed viewing modes (ie Dynamic to Cinema as per the W7000) NOT whether it changed speed when you changed the refresh rate because ALL DLP's do that. It's just the way the technology works.

I actually mentioned that it was quite obvious that the wheel speed changed when changing refresh rates and the fact that these effects DID NOT occur when changing viewing modes leads me to conclude that the projector does not change from 6x to 4x when changing viewing modes.
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