Using multiple 1080p projectors for gaming with Eyefinity - suggestions? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 11-16-2012, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I'm looking into 1080p projectors that have the following characteristics:
  • Low input lag
  • 1080p
  • Lens shift
  • $1000-1500 price range

I want to pair 2 (or 3, if the price is right) to create an eyefinity setup.

I've seen many on WSGF (widescreen gaming forum) use the Optoma GT750 projector. These DLP PJs have very low input lag, but they are 720p resolution. They are getting 3072 x 768px.

If I use two 1080p projectors, I could get 3840x1080 - but there will be a seam down the middle (which isn't good for FPS games). I will use software similar to Warpalizer to do edge blending of the image.

I plan to use it for racing and flight simulators mostly.

This may not be the best demonstration:

Thanks,
ELmO

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post #2 of 32 Old 11-17-2012, 05:36 AM
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Hello Elmo,
That's one of my old videos. I'm currently only using 2 of the 1080p projectors, which is much better for FPS games.
In Feb. I'm switching to 5, LED, 720p projectors in portrait. I put far too many hours on these things.

How much time will you be spending on the projectors per day?

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post #3 of 32 Old 11-17-2012, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Snipe3K,

Awesome - you are exactly the person I want to speak with! I've seen many of your videos on youtube?

I will probably not be spending more than an hour on them per day. It is more for any guests (family/friends). I enjoy doing various projects (if you see, I have 4 different theater room setups in my SIG). I enjoy the process a little bit more than my final result (which is left for friends to enjoy pretty much).

Here are my questions:
  • Which 1080p projectors are you using?
  • Why are only 2 better for FPS? I know the PC hardware reqs would drop a little if the resolution is lower. What are your thoughts on 3 vs 2 projectors in general? What happens to the FOV? I think you were using a somewhat expensive (3K) Da-lite screen. I wonder if I can manufacture my own curved screen with my carpenter, if I can find construction plans?
  • How much are the 720p LED projectors - are you waiting because that hardware isn't out? Are they LED because those don't have problems projecting in portrait? It sounds like you are worried about bulb life by your hour count, and LEDs bulbs last forever.
  • I like your setup for racing games, but I've seen some "taller" setups that seem great for flight simulations. Do you play any flight games or do you have any knowledge of what I'm asking here. I assume the 5x1 portrait is getting you your height back.

I have a little difficulty in choosing a 1080p projector, mainly due to their throw lengths. It seems like the Optoma GT750 at only $660 or so is a good 720p DLP short throw that people have been using.

Thanks for your initial thoughts,
ELmO

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post #4 of 32 Old 11-17-2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe3000 View Post

I'm switching to 5, LED, 720p projectors in portrait.

Why, portrait? I never thought of doing it that way with projectors. Do you know what led projectors you will be using or are you waiting to see what happens with Ces.

there is that benQ short throw dlp, 1080p. it sounds promising but not out yet.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435626/benq-w1070-dlp-full-hd-3d-ready-with-lens-shift-for-1000
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post #5 of 32 Old 11-18-2012, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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If you follow monitors, you can get a different AR with 5x1. I think he is closer to 16x10 or 16x9 with 5x1 in portrait. If you put 5x1 in landscape you'd have a super wide screen (lol), well out of 180FOV.

The reason to go 5x1 in monitors is for getting closer to 16x10 but also regaining your height resolution and just more visible resolution in front of your eyes (instead of wasted at the sides you barely see).

Look on youtube for 5x1 eyefinity setups and you will see some interesting things, but probably no videos on 5x1 projectors. Typically I've seen projectors have heat dissipation issues on their side. I think he suggested LED because he uses his projector setup so much he's burning bulbs otherwise. But I bet LED is a hell of a lot cooler too and doesn't have any heat issues in regards to mount orientation.

I'm personally looking at that benQ for my simulation setup, thanks! I think Snipe3K uses BenQs also but I'm waiting to hear.

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post #6 of 32 Old 11-19-2012, 12:53 AM
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Will you be using a curved screen, I just came across this youtube video.

It seems like it could be alot more immersive for games, but might be weird watching movies on.
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post #7 of 32 Old 11-19-2012, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I would like to use a curved screen (or build one myself). Probably will use Seymour AV's XD acoustically transparent fabric.

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post #8 of 32 Old 11-19-2012, 01:50 AM
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Last video of the night, wish I had the $$$ to do something like this. One lucky kid biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 32 Old 11-19-2012, 02:43 AM
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The first video Amber Ale posted is a great example of what the 2 projector setup looks like.

When you go with 3, you get the "fish eye" effect on half of the two outer projectors, unless the games has good FOV adjustments. Also, its just far too wide, wasted pixels. Also, you can fill more vertical space in the same width space than you would with 3 projectors.
Iv'e found 3 screens is only good for racing AND only if the screens can surround you somewhere close to 180 degrees. So I just mounted 3 1080p 120hz monitors on my motion sim and moved it to the corner of the room.

If you have enough room for it and can get a big enough screen, then 3 projectors for racing is as good as it gets. The PC specs isn't a problem, I'm running 4x 7970s, the issue for me is I don't have enough space to dedicate projectors to my racing rig. I'd have to move my FPS setup out of the way, and I do more FPS than racing. The second video Amber Ale posted is a good example of how much space you need for a 3 projectors racing setup. The further back the rig, the bigger the screen you will need. Want more vertical space for the 3 projector setup? no problem, but again, you will need an even bigger screen. Within the same width of the screen in that second video, if there where 2 projectors instead of 3, you would have quite a bit more vertical for the games.

- I'm using BenQ w1000+ projectors, over 6000 hours (less than 1 year) on the same bulbs and still going. Great projectors, but I put too much time on them, I need LED.

- I'm looking at the LG PA70G or the Casio XJ-M245, I'm not sure about the 120hz on those, connection requirements, sharpness, input lag... I have some time to figure it out. brightness wont be an issue, I only need the screen size of each projector at about 41 inches diagonal.

- I think the LG projectors are about $500 each at FRYs, and the Casio's are about $1000 each. The perfect projectors for me would be the BenQ LW61ST, probably the best 720p projector out right now, and short throw, which would save me a lot of room behind my screen, but they are $2000 for 1. Maybe something new will come out at CES, I'll wait and see.

- Here is a pretty good explanation for the whole 5x1 thing : http://www.wsgf.org/book/export/html/1272

- You are correct about getting my height back with the 5x1 setup. That video was taken when I was using 3 projectors, you can't see it because of the dark room, but I was only using 50% of the vertical screen space available.

- Yes, there are cheaper screens out there and putting it together yourself would be far cheaper. Rear projection is mainly what I know about. I went through many samples from various companies to compare image quality. The Frame is where they get you. If you can make your own, you can save loads. I should mention the quality difference between the different rear projection screens isn't all that big, but because I sit so close to my screen, when I did the comparisons, I was looking closely, very closely.

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post #10 of 32 Old 11-23-2012, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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They don't make the BenQ W1000 anymore, and I think I read reviews that the input lag on the BenQ W1100 is not as good.

I see how you had to choose between racing and "everything else". Do flight simulations also benefit from 3 projectors, or would you still prefer 2 with the taller image?

It's of course difficult to decide having not seen either in person, I think I have the money for the 3 projector setup - the question is do I have the space. The Optoma GT750e is a very cheap projector to try 3 out (or just 2), but I'm worried about the 720p resolution.

ELmO

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post #11 of 32 Old 11-24-2012, 11:23 PM
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You should try that new BenQ 1070, 720P @ 120hz, and 1080P @ 60hz. Sounds like it could be a really good gaming/movie projector. I hear its going to be inexpensive as well.

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post #12 of 32 Old 11-25-2012, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Snipe3K,

I agree, but I think it's not a short throw projector. Seems like a perfect budget gaming PJ otherwise. Someone in that thread posted about a "BenQ 1080ST", but I'm not sure if they made that model number up, which would indicate a short throw version.

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post #13 of 32 Old 11-25-2012, 09:25 PM
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The BenQ GP10 looks interesting as well, but I can't find any reviews on it.

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post #14 of 32 Old 11-27-2012, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Check this out from the BenQ W1070 thread.

The w1080st is the short throw version. Here is a new review:

"W1080ST: the world’s first Full HD short throw video projector
As the world’s first Full HD short throw video projector, BenQ’s W1080ST creates a 65.7” image when positioned at a distance of just one meter, preventing image obstruction and shadows on the screen which is ideal in any situation, but particularly important when engaging in gaming."


In that same thread, it states Q1 2013, $1300 MSRP. Great price for the first 1080p short throw!!! This is the one. How many should we get, 2 or 3?

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post #15 of 32 Old 11-27-2012, 06:58 AM
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You could always start with 2 to see how that works for you. And if you need more, then add more.

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post #16 of 32 Old 11-28-2012, 12:59 PM
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you might find something in here

http://www.projectorreviews.com/game-projector-blog/

gaming projector blog
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post #17 of 32 Old 11-28-2012, 02:46 PM
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There's one more gaming projector blog on that website as well. Unfortunately, they rarely review the gaming projectors. Mostly just a handful of Movie projectors to see if they'll pass for gaming.

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post #18 of 32 Old 12-11-2012, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I wish our hobby had a bigger audience, we would get a lot of input on this. Maybe if people start seeing what we're doing with multiple projectors and edge blending they'll start being more curious. It's similar to doubling up CRT projectors I guess, but we want to use 3-5 of them at once.

Any more progress in your research on 5x1 portrait LEDs? I feel like I'm behind if I do 3x1 landscape PJs (or even 2x1). I wish I could see one in person to know what I'm getting into. I'm sure for racing sims it will be nuts, but what about HAWX or flight simulations?

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post #19 of 32 Old 12-12-2012, 03:38 AM
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I've been looking at some of the bulb stuff lately. I'll just have to calculate in a bulb change every 5-6 months if I go that route. I'm looking at the BenQ W710ST and W1080st, the ability to do 800p @ 120hz or 1080p @ 60hz interests me. Although I will need to know if the 800P on the w1070/w1080 is as crisp as the 1080P. Some projectors/tvs/monitors don't like to be outside their native resolution.
The good LED/laser stuff is just so expensive, and you aren't really getting that much for it. We'll see, maybe something will be announced in the next month.

One thing I can tell you for sure, whether you go with 2 or 5 projectors, you will love the setup. You won't want to go back to monitors.

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post #20 of 32 Old 12-16-2012, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Hah, I haven't even tried an eyefinity triple monitor setup yet. I use dual monitors at work, other than that I'm just dreaming.

I kind of wanted a motion d-box chair, but I can't find any used for a reasonable price. Do you happen to know of anything similar but much cheaper?

Why would you run the PJs at only 800p, trying to get higher hz? Could you just buy a ton of 800x600 projectors?

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post #21 of 32 Old 12-16-2012, 05:13 PM
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I was originally going to get a D-box setup as well, but then I figured for that kind of money, there has to be something better out there. Then I found simcraft (www.simcraft.com)
I have the Vertext2 model (http://www.simcraft.com/sc220-Epsilon.html) Its cheaper and you get more out of it. The last 2 screen shots on that page, of the black model, are pics of my rig.

If you really have your heart set on D-box, then talk to my buddy Mayaman:
http://insidesimracing.tv/forums/topic/3546-custom-visionracervr3-d-box-motion-dual-th8-shifters-more/
He was able to find used D-box stuff, twice.

Two main reasons why I want 800p; The first is hz, yes I want 120hz. not for 3D, just for the smoothness. Speaking of which I picked up a LG PA70G the other day to play around with, and 120hz gaming is the best thing ever.
The other reason is that I want 5 projectors, and I know from experience what happens when you go past a certain resolution. Even on the fastest setups, you have to start sacrificing video quality in order to push the pixels through those kinds of resolution, its not fun. Id rather not go past 6912000 pixels, or there about, if I can avoid it.

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post #22 of 32 Old 12-16-2012, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe3000 View Post

Speaking of which I picked up a LG PA70G the other day to play around with, and 120hz gaming is the best thing ever.

Looking forward to hearing how 120hz gaming works on that for you, I keep reading about the focus issue but maybe for gaming it wouldn't be an issue.
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post #23 of 32 Old 12-16-2012, 06:39 PM
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Looking forward to hearing how 120hz gaming works on that for you, I keep reading about the focus issue but maybe for gaming it wouldn't be an issue.
I dont plan on using the LG for the gaming setup. It was just on sale at Frys so I picked one up to play with.

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post #24 of 32 Old 12-17-2012, 08:27 AM
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Have you considered going 3D Eyefinity? One nice thing about the GT750 is it's 3D and the 3D works seamlessly with AMD cards. I'm using an Asus 7770 1ghz edition and can play Skyrim in 3D at max with no issues or lag, but that's at 720p. Skyrim and Black Ops both look crazy good in 3D.

What kind of computer setup are you going with to be able to run two or three 1080p projectors?
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post #25 of 32 Old 12-19-2012, 01:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I will probably not be able to match snipe's setup, but I am willing to put 3 or 4 7970s into it. The 7970s are down to $350 each.

I think I can get away with only 2 7970s though depending if I'm only using 2 1080ps.

I have never thought about 3D Eyefinity, mainly because it seems like I would need 120hz and it has to be 720p. Any thoughts on this? I would love to play 3D Skyrim.

I'm trying to learn from Snipe since he's done this a few times already. The more pixels, the harder it will be to push for sure. Now he says he likes 120hz, very few people are doing these types of setups right now so I will listen to his advice.

I would like to see 3D Eyefinity, and eyefinity on a projector setup in general so i can decide what I'd personally like.

I see the Optoma GT750E for sale, and not everyone is sure it can do 3D eyefinity - everyone is sure about the 750 though. I think the E is the newer or English version (?). I'm willing to do that, but I think Snipe says the resolution is a little too low.

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post #26 of 32 Old 12-19-2012, 02:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe3000 View Post

I was originally going to get a D-box setup as well, but then I figured for that kind of money, there has to be something better out there. Then I found simcraft (www.simcraft.com)
I have the Vertext2 model (http://www.simcraft.com/sc220-Epsilon.html) Its cheaper and you get more out of it. The last 2 screen shots on that page, of the black model, are pics of my rig.
If you really have your heart set on D-box, then talk to my buddy Mayaman:
http://insidesimracing.tv/forums/topic/3546-custom-visionracervr3-d-box-motion-dual-th8-shifters-more/
He was able to find used D-box stuff, twice.
Two main reasons why I want 800p; The first is hz, yes I want 120hz. not for 3D, just for the smoothness. Speaking of which I picked up a LG PA70G the other day to play around with, and 120hz gaming is the best thing ever.
The other reason is that I want 5 projectors, and I know from experience what happens when you go past a certain resolution. Even on the fastest setups, you have to start sacrificing video quality in order to push the pixels through those kinds of resolution, its not fun. Id rather not go past 6912000 pixels, or there about, if I can avoid it.

Still kind of expensive seat. I'm sure it's worth it but I was looking for more in the 3K price range. Maybe a used simcraft seat?

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post #27 of 32 Old 12-19-2012, 09:52 AM
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Send simcraft an email, they were selling used stuff not too long ago, they might have more.
They also sell DIY kits, just the actuators and bearings. If you can build your own frame, that will save loads of money. I believe they even have the plans on their site to build your own frame, if thats the route you take.

I should warn you, AMD drivers suck compared to Nvidia's. Especially when it comes to multi-GPU and multi-screen support.
AMDs still works, just very frustrating to get the simplest things to work. If you know for sure that you are not going to go with exactly 3 screens, then you have no choice, you have to go with AMD, but if you do settle on exactly 3 screens, I wouldn't hesitate to go back to Nvidia.

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post #28 of 32 Old 12-19-2012, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Can the optoma gt750e be used with 120hz? That Projector is so cheap, it might be a good start for me? I just don't like 720p.

Have you looked into 3D eyefinity?

I sent simcraft an email. No used systems available, they directed me to the plans which were much cheaper (still a little expensive, lol). Still would have been nice to find a used system!

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post #29 of 32 Old 12-19-2012, 05:09 PM
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The gt750e will do 3D. I'm not interested in 3D, just the 120hz part.

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post #30 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Snipe, so what YOU'RE looking for is 1080p 120hz, right?

The GT750E specs say 3D and 120hz. Typically, 720p projectors that do 3D are usually operating at 120hz, with 60hz to each eye? Is this correct or how does that work?

I think I might go with 3 GT750Es just to play and see what this is all about, knowing I don't have enough resolution. It sounds like the BenQ W1070 can only do 120hz at 1200x800 resolution (not 1080p).

I know when the PS3 goes down to 720p for 3D games, it's a noticeable sharpness drop. But that just may be the upconversion my projector is doing on a lower res signal.

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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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