First Projector, but at least I came prepared! *Another Update - New 8350 or Refurb 8500UB?* - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE Below - Check my latest post

Thanks for looking at my post. It's my first, but I have been a member of and reading all the threads on this forum for a very long time. In that time span I've done my best to gather the knowledge on what info is usually requested for a proper post when asking for advice on a new projector. Here's to hoping I get it right!

Let's get to it. Here's all facts and preferences that I've managed to collect and I find are typically requested by the members here when helping a thread starter.

Price: Under $1000.

Usage
80% Movies
10% Sports (American Football)
5% Television
5% Gaming

Resolution: 1080p. 3D is not required at all.

Light Source: Any. Though I expect most likely it'll be bulb since LED - while it would be most preferred - I've found after doing research that 1080p LED is sadly still very limited and out of my price range and the best LED PJ that is in my price range is the 720p LG PA70G. Great projector, but not 1080p and I'm sticking to that requirement.

Screen Size: 120" minimum. It seems like a nice round number and "10 Foot Screen" has a good ring to it, I'm willing to go bigger if for some reason I should, but definitely not smaller. I've done the measurements and I easily have the wall space and the seating space/distance for this (or even bigger) size.

Area of operation
A Dedicated theater room with concrete floors, dark wood panel walls and white drywall ceiling. Highly light controlled (can be pitch black).

Screen is still unknown. (I'm open to suggestions! Though I suppose I need to make a separate thread in the screens sub-forum for that.)

Room Dimensions
Length - 20 feet 9 inches
Width - 15 feet 8 inches
Floor to Ceiling Height - 8 Feet

A ceiling fan exists at the dead center of the room. Center of fan is 9'10" from the proposed screen wall. It is a 48" Fan. I expect my projector mount will more than likely be around 13' from the screen with a drop of about 20-24" from the ceiling to clear the fan.

Direction of orientation will be length-wise. (i.e. 20 feet worth of distance for projector throw and seating distance)


Last, but not least. My own research and observation has led me to the Viewsonic Pro8200. Given it's current $650 (after GC) deal at Newegg. It fits my budget exceptionally. Matches my resolution requirement and I've heard nothing but fantastic things about this unit from several members on this site and at others. It was even the #1 recommended 2D model under $1000 by AVS itself. Also using the calculator here - http://www.projectorcentral.com/ViewSonic-Pro8200-projection-calculator-pro.htm?haveflashipromise - it looks like everything should work out great with a ceiling mount at 13 feet 2 inches and a screen size of 120 inches. I'd gladly buy this one, if the majority agrees....

I will be watching this thread closely in case I missed anything to provide answers/info. I know this is a bit long, but for those who read it... I THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

So please tell me... What projector would you recommend for me? The Pro8200 or something else?
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post #2 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 01:51 AM
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You did your homework, many can learn from your listing everything that newbies need to put down in getting our input. smile.gif

Now, an advantage to the cheap and good pro8200 is it buys you "time" , the transition to LED/Laser is still a couple of years away in 1080p/4K and in price range that would be "cheap and good". And the DLP is mature tech, and just like HDTV's in beginning were very high in price, the prices on the 1080p DLP have dropped compared to a few years ago.

As long as you can go straight back from screen you shouldn't need lens shift, just stay flexible in mounting and creative. The pro8200 offers something that many other home theater PJ's don't offer, flexible portable solution for travel and many type of room placements in all types of lighting.

I suggest being OPEN to not locking down the PJ in one room. It could make a wonderful xmas/thanksgiving family room event, or an adult night movie in bedroom with candles or kids movie viewing in their room or out on the backyard or porch. You can lock it down, but let it out at times so it sees different rooms. wink.gif

When I came into this room, many videophiles were here, and hardly anyone talked "portable adult entertainment for bedroom", or kids movie on porch or the kids rooms, or doing the living room TV football game with the bud's, or multiplayer gaming experience in split screen. Most are in BATCAVE with black everything, in a dungeon type room (joking guys). Not everybody, but many. Even to this day, many videophiles still just use the batcave rating system to rank order. Med-evil. (again, joking guys).

There are better batcave PJ's but not better all around PJ's in the 650 price range in 1080p with 3 year warranty. smile.gif

If the 720p LEDS didn't suffer from blurry image and low lumens, I might pick up a secondary PJ, in addition to the main Power work horse pro8200.
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post #3 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 02:48 AM
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$650 is a really good price. By saving money on the projector you can

buy or make a better quality screen, add a darbee processor, get it professionally calibrated

It's hard to pass up for that price.
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post #4 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Even though it's only two replies so far. The Consensus seems to be that I should go with the Pro8200?

I've got until the end of today to decide as the deal at newegg will end. Looks like my pick is leaning that way though unless I hear otherwise.
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post #5 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 02:27 PM
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At slightly above $1000 you have more options, such as hc4000 or the Benq. For a dedicated home theater they might be a better choice given you are using it mostly for movies. The pro8200 is a lot brighter and more versatile as rgtaa said. The mits might Have a better picture in a movie setting. If you were going to use it more for say tv sports, then the 8200 would be the better choice. I have the 8200 and like it. I also didn't want to spend a thousand bucks.
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post #6 of 16 Old 11-21-2012, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I'm glad I did more research!

From the review at http://www.projectorreviews.com/viewsonic/pro8200/tour.php

"Consider, this common mounting situation: 8 foot ceiling, 120 inch diagonal screen: Assume the projector is mounted very close to the ceiling, with a drop of 10 inches from ceiling to center of lens. Then, for the 120" screen, the lens offset is just a fraction less than 20 inches. The screen height is about 59 inches. Bottom line: 96 inches (ceiling) - 10, -20, -59 = 7 inches - the bottom of the screen would be just over 7 inches off the floor. That much offset is handy for placing a projector on a table below screen height, but is a challenge in those lower height ceilings."

Yeah.... I have an 8 foot high ceiling and I want a 120" Screen. Bottom of the image only 7" from the floor is ridiculous. Sadly it looks like this PJ is out for me, unless someone can tell me a way to overcome this problem. frown.gif

So it seems I'm back to my original question... Which projector?
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post #7 of 16 Old 11-22-2012, 02:07 AM
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Good you came to that decision , because the deal just ended.

In defense of the placement of the pro8200 or the mits hc4000 which has the same placement offset, many of us just get the PJ, and after we get , set it up until it works. In some rooms I can get a 120 inch screen size and others 90 inch, it's flexible since you can with zoom increase or decrease the size. And tilting the PJ a little helps, and staying flexible as to how to mount , since it might not work one way, but it would a different way. When I'm watching a movie , the room becomes a MOVIE ROOM, the lights are off, so if PJ is on a stack of storage dressers behind me above me seated, or on bookshelf, or ceiling mounts with extention, or on coffee table, I don't care. I'm always rearranging my rooms when I get new furniture or hdtv or equipment.
After the movie is over, turn the lights back on, and the room becomes a regular room again. smile.gif

Just like my computers or hdtv's, I find the right place for them and move other stuff around it so it works. You have done it a thousand times for other equipment. The thing is the PJ image itself is fluid, it's not like a hdtv that is fixed. In fact don't even think about a screen until you have the PJ set up and you measure what works in that room.

Maybe others can suggest a PJ that would work better for you.
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post #8 of 16 Old 11-22-2012, 08:54 AM
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The optoma hd20 has a lower offset and would work. It's 1080p, not as bright, and might have slightly more rbe. That bothers some people, others not so much.

It's less than $1000.

You should consider the Epson 8350. Like all lcd projectors it has a lot of placement flexibility (that ceiling fan in the middle of the room is going to present a problem if you want a 120" screen and not have the bottom close to the floor). You might find them close to $1000 (or even less this weekend).
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post #9 of 16 Old 11-24-2012, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
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So at this point it seems like the best option based on recommendations and my own research would be the Epson 8350. Here's to hoping I can at least find it for $1000 flat (if not less)

Any other recommendations? (aside from the Optoma hd20).
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-24-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtant42 View Post

So at this point it seems like the best option based on recommendations and my own research would be the Epson 8350. Here's to hoping I can at least find it for $1000 flat (if not less)
Any other recommendations? (aside from the Optoma hd20).

Thanks for posting your question and giving so much information about your situation/what you are looking for. I am in the process of selecting my second projector replacing a mits HD1000, which was a great pj for $400 refurb, but it is 720p and black levels/detail leave something to be desired. The HD1000's picture would get very grainy in dark scenes. It was also a DLP pj, and I'm wondering if this is not an issue with the 3LCD pj's.

You can find the 8350 for just under $1k on ebay, but Visual Apex has a pretty cool deal where you get a free calibration disk, dust cover, and free two-day shipping with a final price of $1,099. Here's the link:

http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=Home-Cinema-8350

Has anyone seen a good amount of video on the 8350 to tell us how the black levels/detail are? (Sorry to hijack to thread a bit Xtant42).

"In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments; there are consequences."Robert Green Ingersoll

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post #11 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Update - Two weeks later and several dozen hours of research. I've only verified even more so what I already was leaning towards originally and therefore have made my final pick for projector...

Epson 8350 *cheers. applause.*

Given the multitude of positive comments, professional reviews and vast ownership representation here at this very forum (among elsewhere) I find that to be a major positive supporting factor. However though even more than that is that it has the lens shift I need to get the screen size I desire for my wall space. the lumens to support that screen size (Including the occasions where ambient light will be necessary such as sporting events/parties). the lumens to continue to give me high enough FL's for an enjoyable experience and relatively minimal acceptable loss over the life of the bulb. The price of course, despite being over $1000 (hey, quality cost money i found). and all that other great stuff like sharpness, color quality, image clarity, low audible noise, reliability, customer service, warranty, replacement bulb cost, etc. etc. etc. all that good stuff you 8350 owners already know!

I will say I gave a lot of research into alternate competitive options such as the Epson 3010 and Panasonic AR100U. For brief moments throughout my research about a half dozen other models too. Though despite being great units or having a feature I liked I would Eventually see something after reading far enough Into them that I didn't like or could do without. Such as Lack of lens shift, brightness OR most of the time, the price.)

So finally unless anyone has any last words, advice, etc in argument against The 8350 or to push for a different projector that could legitimately sway me..... I say it's about time for me to finally move onto figuring out the screen for my pick (the 8350) I suppose my first question is do I need to start a new thread in the screen section or can I carry on here?
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-08-2012, 08:35 AM
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I'm choosing the 8350 after months (and months) of research. You can see my other posts where I'm asking questions about quality, cost and lens shift...same answer! Take pictures when you're done!
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-08-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtant42 View Post

Update - Two weeks later and several dozen hours of research. I've only verified even more so what I already was leaning towards originally and therefore have made my final pick for projector...
Epson 8350 *cheers. applause.*
Given the multitude of positive comments, professional reviews and vast ownership representation here at this very forum (among elsewhere) I find that to be a major positive supporting factor. However though even more than that is that it has the lens shift I need to get the screen size I desire for my wall space. the lumens to support that screen size (Including the occasions where ambient light will be necessary such as sporting events/parties). the lumens to continue to give me high enough FL's for an enjoyable experience and relatively minimal acceptable loss over the life of the bulb. The price of course, despite being over $1000 (hey, quality cost money i found). and all that other great stuff like sharpness, color quality, image clarity, low audible noise, reliability, customer service, warranty, replacement bulb cost, etc. etc. etc. all that good stuff you 8350 owners already know!
I will say I gave a lot of research into alternate competitive options such as the Epson 3010 and Panasonic AR100U. For brief moments throughout my research about a half dozen other models too. Though despite being great units or having a feature I liked I would Eventually see something after reading far enough Into them that I didn't like or could do without. Such as Lack of lens shift, brightness OR most of the time, the price.)
So finally unless anyone has any last words, advice, etc in argument against The 8350 or to push for a different projector that could legitimately sway me..... I say it's about time for me to finally move onto figuring out the screen for my pick (the 8350) I suppose my first question is do I need to start a new thread in the screen section or can I carry on here?

It's good you didn't decide on the 3010 since many of the online sellers no longer stock this model, although I'm sure there are some available somewhere. First time buyers entering the front projector market think $1000-1500 is a lot of money to pay but historically you could never enter this hobby for less than $3000 years ago. This is a great time to be entering the home theater arena since tech gear prices are at an amazing low. Enjoy your 8350.

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post #14 of 16 Old 12-09-2012, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daninsd View Post

I'm choosing the 8350 after months (and months) of research. You can see my other posts where I'm asking questions about quality, cost and lens shift...same answer! Take pictures when you're done!

That's great to hear! I'll definitely take pictures when it's all set up. You do the same!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

It's good you didn't decide on the 3010 since many of the online sellers no longer stock this model, although I'm sure there are some available somewhere. First time buyers entering the front projector market think $1000-1500 is a lot of money to pay but historically you could never enter this hobby for less than $3000 years ago. This is a great time to be entering the home theater arena since tech gear prices are at an amazing low. Enjoy your 8350.

Ahhh, so that explains why there is a 3020 now, doesn't it? tongue.gif I'll admit I didn't know that, but I probably would've noticed it eventually. Although I did see places where you could buy it, that's a moot point though. I suppose that's a reflection of all the models I've gone through, all the crazy amounts of in depth research can make you miss simple stuff like that on the surface. Oh well.

As for the price you're right and I'm very happy about that! Better tech and lower prices finally allow me to get the home theater I've always dreamed of. hopefully in the next 5 to 10 years LED tech will get better and proliferate, then we will no longer have to talk about / worry about bulb life.and pay obscene prices to replace them. Future dreams...

As for now I'm taking the best of what I can get (at least I sure hope it is.) and hope to enjoy the heck out of it! Now on to finding a suitable 120" screen.

==========================

Well, well, well... Just as I thought I had this all wrapped up. I get quite an offer! I have the opportunity to buy a Refurb Epson 8500UB with only 15 hours on the bulb for only $950. Now I know from reviews this PJ is widely considered absolutely amazing. A true award winner and used to cost over $2000. Is it safe to say it is better than the 8350? Certainly when it comes to black levels (contrast) obviously. Anything else?

The things I worry about though is after doing research on the 8500UB is that I see LOTS and LOTS of complaints on it. Apparently it has a very widespread and well-known issue regarding red lines on the whole screen, purple colors on the bottom. Basically you have a lot of visual artifacts / issues and that is VERY concerning to me. Now I will admit I saw most of these complaints from back in 2010, so my question is has this been fixed since then? Is it something I should really be worried about? I know Epson has great customer service, but I don't want to be dealing with constant RMA's. Also talk of convergence issues which apparently the 8350 has the ability to correct this issue? Definitely a few things that make me hesitant... Should I be?

So bottom line the question is - Should I buy the $950 Refurb 8500UB OR stick to buying a brand-new 8350 for $1099?
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post #15 of 16 Old 12-09-2012, 08:45 AM
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As for now I'm taking the best of what I can get (at least I sure hope it is.) and hope to enjoy the heck out of it! Now on to finding a suitable 120" screen.
==========================
Well, well, well... Just as I thought I had this all wrapped up. I get quite an offer! I have the opportunity to buy a Refurb Epson 8500UB with only 15 hours on the bulb for only $950. Now I know from reviews this PJ is widely considered absolutely amazing. A true award winner and used to cost over $2000. Is it safe to say it is better than the 8350? Certainly when it comes to black levels (contrast) obviously. Anything else?
The things I worry about though is after doing research on the 8500UB is that I see LOTS and LOTS of complaints on it. Apparently it has a very widespread and well-known issue regarding red lines on the whole screen, purple colors on the bottom. Basically you have a lot of visual artifacts / issues and that is VERY concerning to me. Now I will admit I saw most of these complaints from back in 2010, so my question is has this been fixed since then? Is it something I should really be worried about? I know Epson has great customer service, but I don't want to be dealing with constant RMA's. Also talk of convergence issues which apparently the 8350 has the ability to correct this issue? Definitely a few things that make me hesitant... Should I be?
So bottom line the question is - Should I buy the $950 Refurb 8500UB OR stick to buying a brand-new 8350 for $1099?

As far as an inexpensive good quality fixed frame 120" screen have a look at the Elite SableFrame. My niece has it and loves it, I did the home theater install for her.

Your other question on the refurb versus new is a tough one. My personal preferences run toward new with the least amount of (or no) problems.

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post #16 of 16 Old 12-10-2012, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as an inexpensive good quality fixed frame 120" screen have a look at the Elite SableFrame. My niece has it and loves it, I did the home theater install for her.
Your other question on the refurb versus new is a tough one. My personal preferences run toward new with the least amount of (or no) problems.

I'll certainly look into that screen. It's nice to see there's actually 120 inch fixed screen that's near $300. In most cases from what I've seen they are really expensive and strangely enough motorized versions end up being cheaper than fixed screens. personally that makes no sense to me, but hey that's home theater in general. =P

I'm still interested in hearing what other people would suggest regarding my projector choice... new 8350 from retailer ($1099) or refurb 8500UB from an individual ($900)


FINAL RESULT: I bought the Epson 8500UB!
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