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post #1 of 27 Old 12-17-2012, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone, new guy here. Wanted to introduce myself and ask a few questions.

I've spent the past month reading a variety of forums, doing research and liked this forum the best, so decided to join.

A little background info:

My wife and I just bought our first home back in July, and I've been putting together my Man Cave. Its a small room upstairs (roughly a 12'x13' nearly square) where I've placed two couches, glass coffee table, some beers signs etc. I typically use this room to watch movies and play video games on my PS3 since its got the surround sound hooked up and our living room only has a sound bar setup (due to configuration issues).

The entertainment center in the man cave has a Samsung 50" 720p Plasma TV, Sony 5.1 amp, PS3, and a 5.1 surround speaker setup all Sony, except my sub is a Definitive Technologies. All in all my equipment is mediocre compared to many, but it does everything I ask of it, is plenty loud for such a small room, and I'm quite satisfied with it, except one part....the screen. Here's a pic of what I've got so far:
ManCave2_zpse15c3497.jpg

Now, I've always wanted (and now that I own a house can) to get a projector and have a huge screen for movie watching as both my wife and I do that frequently. Getting her to go along with spending thousands of dollars on A/V stuff however, is a different challenge. So I started researching projectors and long story short think I have decided on the Optoma HD20 1080p projector. The hundreds of reviews I've read on it are mostly positive, and most importantly its under $1,000 ($829 last I checked on Amazon). So to try and get my wife on board, I borrowed a projector from my office this past weekend and hooked it up in the Man Cave, where we proceeded to watch Sherlock Holmes 2, Avatar, and MIB 3(again we really like to watch movies smile.gif ) Within the first 5 minutes of the first movie she looks at me and says "damn this IS pretty cool!" and by the end of Avatar she was pretty much sold on the concept. Here's a shot from Avatar with the borrowed projector, projected onto the wall:
ManCave_zps41970822.jpg

The projector I borrowed is a business class / presentations quality projector so I know there will be some performance differences than that of a "Home Theater" projector. With that said, I was still quite impressed with its performance. The borrowed projector is an Infocus 1503 short throw. (Here's a link to the manufacturer page for specs: http://www.infocus.com/projectors/portable-projectors/infocus-in1500-projector-series/infocus-in1503-portable-projector) One thing I did notice is that both my wife and I are within that (some say) 5 percentile that is effected by "the rainbow effect" as we both noticed it quite heavily upon watching the first movie, but both agreed that it got better as the movie went on, as if maybe our eyes got used to it? Neither of us noticed almost any at all in Avatar, but MIB 3 for example was more noticeable.

So I did some measurements, and again the room is almost a square shape at 12'x13', the couch sits approx. 10' from the wall that would be projected onto, I know I will get a better outcome with a screen vs. projecting on the wall and I do plan to get a screen once I've got the projector installed and dialed in. I plan to remove the ceiling fan in the room and mount the projector there, which measures approximately 6' off the wall I'll project to. We configured the borrowed projector to create a screen size this weekend that was approx. 7' across and approx 8' diagonally, which seemed to be the perfect size to fill the wall and match up with the entertainment center & speakers that exist there. Here's a sketch:
sketch_zps77b6898a.jpg

So my questions go as follows:

-Since the borrowed projector is a presentation style vs home theater style projector, would the rainbow effect be more apparent on the presentation vs. the home theater (ie the Optoma HD20)?
-With experiencing "the rainbow effect" should I start looking into LED projectors vs DLP, even though it didn't ruin my movie watching experience? I've read into the difference between 2x, 4x, 6x speed color wheels and multi-color wheels some having more colors on the wheel than others effecting the "rainbow effect" but can't say I truly understand the details on all that.
-Given the size of the room, desired screen size (roughly 8' diagonally), seating distance from the screen (approx. 10') etc. do I need 1080p or would a cheaper 720p projector be just fine given my source is a PS3 capable of 1080p? I'm thinking I would be foolish to buy anything but a 1080p considering the source and desired size.
-Is the Optoma HD20 even the right choice for me? Or is there other models you would recommend I look into, given the details above?

I really appreciate you taking the time to read this over; I know its long but wanted to give as much detail as possible. Thank you in advance for any replies/input, I'm looking forward to learning more before I make my first step into owning a projector!

-West1134 (Kris)
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post #2 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 09:12 AM
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I think the biggest issue you will have to deal with is getting the screen size you're looking for from your planned throw distance. Are you planning to keep the tv in the room as well? If so, you probably need to wall mount it so you can drop a projection screen in front of it. That will reduce the planned thrown to about 5.5 feet. Projector central has a calculator that will show what options you have available. It is located under their "search by feature option" located here: http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm
There is a place to enter screen size and throw distance. That will show you what projectors are available.

David
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post #3 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crussader View Post

I think the biggest issue you will have to deal with is getting the screen size you're looking for from your planned throw distance. Are you planning to keep the tv in the room as well? If so, you probably need to wall mount it so you can drop a projection screen in front of it. That will reduce the planned thrown to about 5.5 feet. Projector central has a calculator that will show what options you have available. It is located under their "search by feature option" located here: http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm
There is a place to enter screen size and throw distance. That will show you what projectors are available.

Thanks for the input. I don't plan on keeping the TV in there, and I also have flexibility to mount the projector farther back as necessary, I just thought it would work out perfectly to use the existing box for the ceiling fan.
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post #4 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West1134 View Post

I also have flexibility to mount the projector farther back as necessary, I just thought it would work out perfectly to use the existing box for the ceiling fan.
You can still use the ceiling fan location to plug in the projector, but moving back 2 or 3 feet will open up a much larger range of options.

You might consider keeping the tv there as well. A projector can't be frequently turned on and off like a tv can.

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post #5 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crussader View Post

You can still use the ceiling fan location to plug in the projector, but moving back 2 or 3 feet will open up a much larger range of options.
You might consider keeping the tv there as well. A projector can't be frequently turned on and off like a tv can.

Thats a good point. I think I might be able to get a old school pull down style screen from work for free too, so if I hang it from the ceiling, I could always drop it down when needed.

Thanks again for your input.
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post #6 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 11:27 AM
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My understanding (and experience) is that the rainbow effect is most noticeable in scenes containing vertical, high-contrast elements -- like building edges against the sky in Sherlock -- and when you move your head and/or eyes. Although I noticed it frequently when I first got my Mitsubishi DLP projector a couple of years ago, I hardly notice it at all now. Your eyesight might differ, though.

Blu-ray video is primarily 1080p, and you'll be sitting rather close. Both suggest a 1080p projector would be a better match for your use than a 720p one.

Sorry, I can't make any meaningful projector suggestions. I haven't been paying any attention to current models, since my current one probably has another year or two of life in it.

Selden
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post #7 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

My understanding (and experience) is that the rainbow effect is most noticeable in scenes containing vertical, high-contrast elements -- like building edges against the sky in Sherlock -- and when you move your head and/or eyes. Although I noticed it frequently when I first got my Mitsubishi DLP projector a couple of years ago, I hardly notice it at all now. Your eyesight might differ, though.
Blu-ray video is primarily 1080p, and you'll be sitting rather close. Both suggest a 1080p projector would be a better match for your use than a 720p one.
Sorry, I can't make any meaningful projector suggestions. I haven't been paying any attention to current models, since my current one probably has another year or two of life in it.

Appreciate your input. I agree the 1080p model is the right fit. Glad to hear you barely notice much RBE anymore. I too noticed that once we had been watching for awhile, my eyes must have adjusted a little as I didn't notice it as much.
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post #8 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 06:06 PM
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Once you project onto a screen, or a wall painted with reflective screen paint, the rainbow effect will really intensify. Just keep that in mind, just because you can deal with it now is great, but if you notice them now, you will really notice them later. I made a makeshift screen just hanging a white sheet across a room and I didn't notice rainbows at all, but my wife saw so much RBE that she got a headache 20 mins in. Some see rainbows, some don't. If you notice them, just play it safe and buy an LCD. I too would rather have a DLP for the image quality and smooth motion ability but in the end, its not worth the risk to buy it and set it up and then have someone at the party be so distracted by rainbows that they have to leave the room (how embarrassing). I'll wait until DLP doesn't cause any rainbows, because even on projectors with 6 speed color wheels, people still report seeing them, and the Optima HD20 is only 4 speed. Just throwing that out there...
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post #9 of 27 Old 12-18-2012, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lemansfanatic View Post

Once you project onto a screen, or a wall painted with reflective screen paint, the rainbow effect will really intensify. Just keep that in mind, just because you can deal with it now is great, but if you notice them now, you will really notice them later. I made a makeshift screen just hanging a white sheet across a room and I didn't notice rainbows at all, but my wife saw so much RBE that she got a headache 20 mins in. Some see rainbows, some don't. If you notice them, just play it safe and buy an LCD. I too would rather have a DLP for the image quality and smooth motion ability but in the end, its not worth the risk to buy it and set it up and then have someone at the party be so distracted by rainbows that they have to leave the room (how embarrassing). I'll wait until DLP doesn't cause any rainbows, because even on projectors with 6 speed color wheels, people still report seeing them, and the Optima HD20 is only 4 speed. Just throwing that out there...

Really appreciate your opinion on the RBE issue. Definitely something to continue to consider. The good news is, I have a buddy who's looking at doing a projector too, and also looking at buying the HD20. I'm thinking I might see if I can borrow his once he pulls the trigger (as he's a lot closer to getting one than I) and see how it works in my configuration. I'll start looking into LCD projectors too.

Thanks again.
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post #10 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 07:54 AM
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Of course, there is an expensive way to eliminate the RBE: get a 3-chip DLP projector. No color wheel = no RBE.

Selden
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post #11 of 27 Old 12-19-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah....don't think I could convince my wife that I need to spend that kind of $$$ for what she would refer to as "a toy." I'd love to go high end though!
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post #12 of 27 Old 12-22-2012, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I pulled the trigger on a "last days before Christmas" sale today.

Got a Viewsonic Pro8200 HD 1080p, 2000 lumen projector for $699 shipped plus a $50 gift card to Newegg, so essentially $650. I did a some quick research and read reviews on this unit last night, and overall it looks like its a decent PJ. Some concerns is the throw distance needed for it, might not fit my small room. But I decided for the price, I'll take a chance, get it home and play around with it. If it doesn't work for me, I've got a buddy who's got a much larger room that is also looking for a PJ, so I'm 99% sure I'll be able to sell it to him for what I paid for it.

Thanks to everyone for the previous posts and input, it was very helpful. In all honestly I wasn't planning to buy a PJ until tax season and use my return to cover it, but I just felt that at this price I couldn't pass it up!
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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So it took awhile, but my first projector finally showed up! UPS left it on my doorstep (wish they would've taken it to their Hub vs leaving it on my step, even though I live in a safe area) yesterday morning, so I took off work early to go home and pick it up and spend the afternoon setting it up.
Photobucket

At first I just staged it on a stool to see if it would even work in the room I have as I was a little worried about throw distance (my room is pretty small), but it is perfect! I'm just projecting onto a white wall for now, but even with that the image is great! The darks are very dark, and the clarity is insane! Definitely glad I went with 1080p vs 720p.

After I was convinced I was going to keep it, I started out on mounting it and running cable. Where I needed to hang it, there wasn't a joist to tie into so I had to use the spring clip style screws. I know they are designed for this type of application but I just didn't like the fact that the PJ was just hanging by the those in the sheet rock, so I went ahead and got some leftover steel wire and once in the attic looped it around a screw I put into a joist. I then ran the steel cable down through the mount and looped it to the cable lock bar on the projector. This way if the mount ever fails (which I highly doubt it will) the PJ will at least hang by a steel cable vs falling to the ground. (Yes I'm a bit paranoid, and I like to "over build" things haha). The Projector is hanging about 11' from the wall its throwing on to, and the image is about 8' diagonal. I have the ability to go smaller and even a slightly bit bigger at this mounting position.

Next I ran an HDMI cable into the ceiling across my attic to the header in the wall; drilled through it and dropped it down inside the wall so I could pop it out behind my entertainment center. This was a bit of a time consuming part of the install due to trying to make sure I drilled the hole/created the drop right where I wanted it, but in the end it all turned out good. All in all I'm happy with the install as I feel it looks pretty professional, and my first impression (just last night so far) of the PJ is really good. I DEFINITELY will be looking into some DIY projector screen builds here on the forum as that'll be the next step for me, but until I come up with something, projecting on the wall will be fine.
Photobucket

One final note, per conversations earlier about seeing RBE (Rainbow Effect), as mentioned prior, when I borrowed the PJ from work I noticed it pretty easily and was on the fence about buying a DLP due to this. But the price was right on this Viewsonic ($650), so I ordered it even though I was nervous to see how the RBE looked. So far, after watching clips from three or four different movies, some Netflix, and some other downloaded content, I can say that yes there is SOME RBE, but it is definitely much less noticeable on this unit than the borrowed PJ from work! Honestly, after watching for awhile I barely noticed it at all, and my Wife (who also noticed it on the work PJ) said she didn't see it at all.

Here are a couple of quick videos I took of "The Art of Flight" (Awesome snowboarding movie BTW if you've never seen it) Its a downloaded .MKV file that is a Blu-Ray Rip so I'm sure the image quality would be even a little bit better, but I'm certainly not complaining!!! I couldn't figure out how to embed the actual video, but if you click on the image it'll take you into a new window and play the video. Also note that the video has been compressed to host on photobucket so it definitely looks sharper in person.






I'll update this thread on my user experience after I've had some time to play with it some more.
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post #14 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 09:32 AM
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Congrats on your move up to projection! It is a great way to enjoy movies in your own home and avoid the mess the local theater has become.
I have used the HD70 from Optoma for several years now in a room about the same size as what you are setup in and it has been great. Your PJ should work out well for you!

You will need to calibrate your PJ once you have everything setup the way you want it and this will help reduce the incidence of RBE. I have a high power screen I originally used for my setup but it was so bright I would have a headache after an hour or so. I changed over to a particular paint formula I found on AVS and then calibrated for it and can watch my dlp all day without issue.

Now get that surround sound and sub-woofer configuration so that your sound matches your visual performance and you will have a room hard to leave!

Enjoy!
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!!

Yeah I'm spending some time today researching the DIY screen builds. I'm leaning towards building one that hangs vs. painting one. At the moment I'm thinking of taking something like 1x4, creating a frame and stretching some material around it, stapling the back. Then hanging that on the wall and bordering it with a black velvet or something.

I've got the 5.1 surround already setup so I'm good there, but you mentioned calibrating the PJ. What exactly do you mean by that and/or how do you go about it? Is there a special DVD or guide to follow?
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post #16 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 10:10 AM
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To start with a simple calibration, use the THX calibration tool found on some disney and pixar movie discs. I can't recall which one right now but there are several movies that have one. then, if you want to really get into it, Disney has a Blu-ray disc you can buy called World of Wonder.

Here it is on Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Wow-Blu-ray-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B00462PTDQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1357236238&sr=8-2

A good demo for your audio is chapter 25 of Finding Nemo. If the room is not shaking when Darla taps on the fish tank glass, your sub needs help.

Here's an AVS link to the Movies with Bass thread that will give you the best movies for demoing bass/LFE and also the timestamp / chapter location and frequency charts for those movies as well.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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SWEEEEET!!! Thanks!

I'll check all this out!
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 10:46 AM
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BTW,

Here's an article about calibrating your model of PJ over at Projector Reviews:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/viewsonic/pro8200/calibration.php

Interesting results
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 07:44 PM
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There is a thread here with some calibrations for the pro8200.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390576/viewsonic-pro8200-calibrations

Specifically post #6 and post #37.
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-03-2013, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bse53 View Post

There is a thread here with some calibrations for the pro8200.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390576/viewsonic-pro8200-calibrations
Specifically post #6 and post #37.
Thanks!!!
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post #21 of 27 Old 01-04-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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So we watched Terminator 2 last night and it was awesome!! One thing I noticed though, and I wanted to get some feedback from you all.

At one point during the movie there seemed to be a "hiccup" where the image cut out for a second the screen went green (its designated "no signal" color) and while it was green there was a very narrow bar that looked like a scrambled image across the screen. This lasted for maybe 2-3 seconds then continued playing. Upon it playing again, my receiver displayed it was broadcasting in 5.1, which it only shows when the movie/signal starts. The rest of the movie played flawlessly. This also happened the night before once, while watching Netflix.

I'm guessing its just a hiccup in the signal that is causing this, just curious if anyone has any troubleshooting ideas to check? I am running a 30ft HDMI cable through the attic, and down through the wall to the back of my receiver at the TV out port, then another HDMI from my PS3 to the back of the receiver to the Blu Ray port. My gut is telling me though that its likely a hiccup coming from the PS3 and its just something that will happen time to time.

At the end of the day its not a big deal, but figured I'd throw it up here and ask.

Thanks!
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-04-2013, 10:16 AM
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Sounds like a signal quality issue, maybe cable related maybe PS3 related. What brand and type is your 30 foot hdmi cable?
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post #23 of 27 Old 01-04-2013, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reconlabtech View Post

Sounds like a signal quality issue, maybe cable related maybe PS3 related. What brand and type is your 30 foot hdmi cable?

Cmple? Bought it off Amazon for $10 shipped.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027NTUMC/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00


I knew 30' was a bit of a stretch for HDMI, but for $10 was willing to risk it.
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post #24 of 27 Old 01-04-2013, 10:29 AM
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If you haven't already done so, you should disable "deep color" in the player. No existing source material actually includes more than 8 bits of color per channel, but having it enabled uses more bandwidth. Turning it off reduces the bits/second and makes signal transmission through HDMI cables more reliable.

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post #25 of 27 Old 01-04-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

If you haven't already done so, you should disable "deep color" in the player. No existing source material actually includes more than 8 bits of color per channel, but having it enabled uses more bandwidth. Turning it off reduces the bits/second and makes signal transmission through HDMI cables more reliable.

Oh OK, cool I'll check that out when I get home from work. Thanks.
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post #26 of 27 Old 01-06-2013, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I finished my DIY screen using 1x4 for framing, wrapped in black felt and stretched black out cloth. Overall it turned out very nice! Now I just need to sit down (fixing dinner first) and watch a movie on it to see how it performs vs. the wall. I've also followed the above setting changes to both my PS3 and my PJ to adjust everything and I'm getting the PJ closer and closer to being perfect (for me). Thanks again for all the input everyone, very helpful.

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post #27 of 27 Old 05-28-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just re-reading through my post looking for a link for someone else, and man I'm long winded in my first couple of posts LOL! Guess I was a bit excited. One more big thanks to everyone for you input, I've been rocking the PJ for nearly 6 months now and absolutely love it!
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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Viewsonic Pro8200 Dlp Projector
Gear in this thread - Pro8200 by PriceGrabber.com

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