Epson 5020 UB HDMI cable type/length question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 12-29-2012, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

Stupid questions? Haven't been keeping up much lately with my hobby. I have the pioneer BDP 51 and had an old Panasonic AX100 projector. Because of the layout of this room, I was forced to run 70 feet of HDMI cable from my HDMI switcher to my projector. Well, after some reading, decided on a new projector for now, installed the Epson 5020UB and connected everything as is that was existing. No signal at all. I am assuming it is the 70 feet of 5 year old HDMI cable? I wasn't aware that I would need the 5020 with the wireless, looks great now.

Just wondering everyone's thoughts on this before I start trying some different stuff, bringing player out and testing with another cable etc.

Will a new high speed HDMI 70 foot cable work? Should I return and get the projector with wireless?

My new pre which I have not installed yet is the Marantz 7005.


So with the Marantz 7005, the new Oppo Blu Ray 103 and this Epson work with new 70 foot cable?


Thanks for the help.

Brian

Brian
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post #2 of 18 Old 12-29-2012, 06:08 PM
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50ft is usually the limit.
You could cobble together cables and an extender or just get the 5020e

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10105

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post #3 of 18 Old 12-29-2012, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyway at all to use my existing cable with an extender or is this cable obsolete? What kind of cable do I need to use now to get 3D? Has anyone used the model E and what kind of results can I expect.

Just want to be sure of what I need to do and best options?

Thanks again.

Brian
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post #4 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 10:01 AM
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There is no such thing as a high speed or 1.4 or 1.3 or other cable. The only difference in HDMI cables is thickness and the ability to pass ethernet. My $3 HDMI cables work just as well as my friend's $150 Monster cables. They are just a wire(s) in an insulator. The 1.3/1.4a etc, are hardware specs, not cable specs.
The thicker the cable the less theoretical loss in signal from end to end. However, running an HDMI cable over 50 ft or so is often problematic.
I would go with a wireless system, built in or external or get a signal booster to compensate for the distance.

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post #5 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 02:05 PM
 
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The problem is you can't solder all 19 HDMI wires onto a connector and make it fit with larger wire like 18 gauge wire. 22 gauge is the biggest that will fit but also has other issues with how it has to be soldered onto the connector. 23 gauge is usually best. This is what is causing the length limitations of an HDMI cable and why there are no passive cables that pass full HDMI high speed spec over ~25 feet. Remember 1080P is less than half bandwidth of the full spec and the reason some people get away with 50 ft lengths plus a small amount of fudge factor built into the spec.

If you are running more than 25 ft and it will be tough to replace the cable in the future I'd look at another solution. A cat5/6, coax or fibre optic balun would be my recommendation. Most extenders/ equalizers might have problems trying to correct for loner lengths especially if you are going to be using max bandwidth in the future like 4k2k.
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post #6 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

There is no such thing as a high speed or 1.4 or 1.3 or other cable. The only difference in HDMI cables is thickness and the ability to pass ethernet. My $3 HDMI cables work just as well as my friend's $150 Monster cables. They are just a wire(s) in an insulator. The 1.3/1.4a etc, are hardware specs, not cable specs.
The thicker the cable the less theoretical loss in signal from end to end. However, running an HDMI cable over 50 ft or so is often problematic.
I would go with a wireless system, built in or external or get a signal booster to compensate for the distance.

Not exactly correct - HDMI cables are certified, as per tests defined by the HDMI organization, as either High Speed or Standard Speed. High Speed cables are tested and cerfified at the higher brandwidth required for 1080p/60 and for 1080p 3D. However, passive HDMI cables are only certified as High Speed for lengths up to 25 ft. (perhaps slightly more). Some longer (e.g., 35 ft.) cables certified as standard speed,, especially those using heavier gauge conductors such as the monoprice.com 22 gauge HDMI cables, will in fact work for 3D and 1080p/60. Generally for longer runs you will need a HDMI cable with active extender or simply use a CAT 6 (or 5e) cable with a HDMI-to-CAT balun/extender at each end. These start at about $50 (amazon lists several models - HERE is one of the low cost ones and monoprice.com also sells HDMI over CAT 6 adapters). However, as a first step I would try a HDMI Equalizer/Extender with your existing cable (if may or may not work depending on how much bandwidth your existing cable actually has. HERE is a low cost (under $30) Equalizer/Extender from monoprice.com. Finally a few companies are now selling add-on wireless HDMI adapters. HERE is a model for $166 from monoprice.com (google for several others not available). If you go this route (regardless of brand and price) read the customer reviews and make certain it can be returned for a refund since it may not work in your specific setup.

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post #7 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 04:27 PM
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You might want to make sure Deep Color is set off before deciding whether to replace the cable. If that doesn't help, you may also want to trying setting the output to 1080i and see if the picture is acceptable to you.
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post #8 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Not exactly correct - HDMI cables are certified, as per tests defined by the HDMI organization, as either High Speed or Standard Speed. High Speed cables are tested and cerfified at the higher brandwidth required for 1080p/60 and for 1080p 3D. However, passive HDMI cables are only certified as High Speed for lengths up to 25 ft. (perhaps slightly more). Some longer (e.g., 35 ft.) cables certified as standard speed,, especially those using heavier gauge conductors such as the monoprice.com 22 gauge HDMI cables, will in fact work for 3D and 1080p/60. Generally for longer runs you will need a HDMI cable with active extender or simply use a CAT 6 (or 5e) cable with a HDMI-to-CAT balun/extender at each end. These start at about $50 (amazon lists several models - HERE is one of the low cost ones and monoprice.com also sells HDMI over CAT 6 adapters). However, as a first step I would try a HDMI Equalizer/Extender with your existing cable (if may or may not work depending on how much bandwidth your existing cable actually has. HERE is a low cost (under $30) Equalizer/Extender from monoprice.com. Finally a few companies are now selling add-on wireless HDMI adapters. HERE is a model for $166 from monoprice.com (google for several others not available). If you go this route (regardless of brand and price) read the customer reviews and make certain it can be returned for a refund since it may not work in your specific setup.

Oh yeah, they are definitely certified, just like THX equipment is certified. However, as you soon find out with A/V gear that the certification means little. A calibrated projector will usually trump the THX certified setting. It is merely some form of standard. The fact is that meeting the standard is almost completely pointless. The manufactures pay money for that certification. While one product has it and costs more, most times the product beside it would pass but they chose not to pay for the certification process. I have used $3 cables time and again in 6ft lengths that pass full 3D, 1080p/60 ,etc. I have won countless bets against people that have ordered $50-$150 cables of varying lengths and bet them that my $15 - 50ft HDMI cable works exactly the same, again passing 3D, 1080p-60 and DOLBY TrueHD. It never fails when they feel stupid and ripped off. One can choose to pay any price for the same or similar products but it is mostly a complete waste. The certs are typically a minimum performance measure and not a maximum anyway.

I think CNET even did some testing along those lines too...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

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post #9 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 07:50 PM
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Somewhat related perhaps - I just got a 5020, and am having a real handshake issue with 3D and my Oppo 93. Anyone else have this combo and experience this? I have a short run and never have had an issue with any handshake between the Oppo and my JVC 40 using the same cables.
Might the issue be the projector itself? The Oppo? Strangely enough, it can't get the direct link between the player and projector at all, says "incompatible" or some such language rather than "no signal", but I can eventually get it when I run it through my Sony receiver, although it is spotty even then, but I think that rules out the receiver. I have Monoprice 15 ft cables, 2 years old. The 2D handshake seems OK.

Loving the 3D on this unit when I finally get it up on the screen!

SAM33
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post #10 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 08:06 PM
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Oppo firmware updated? There seems to be a new FW for the 5010 out, http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399426/update-for-the-epson-tw9000-5010-is-ready/360#post_22752490

You might give Epson support a call to see if they recommend you update. 15' seems short enough for that cable, if their rated for 3D then they should be fine. I had intermittent issues with a 20' run to my 6010 when playing 3D, changed out some shorter cabling at the sources. Did you try turning off the "deep color" in the Oppo? Different components have different hdmi input sensitivity, and can react differently when using the same cable.
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post #11 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 10:28 PM
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This is definitely not all that rare. Some equipment and related firmware can have issues establishing the connection (handshake). The previous post is the best start. See if there are issues with Oppo hardware or hopefully firmware.

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post #12 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 04:45 AM
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Thanks much to you both! I'll try these suggestions, and happy new year!

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post #13 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, thanks for the info. I removed my Marantz 6 in 2 out HDMI switcher and ran my 70 foot older Blue Jean cable directly from my Pioneer BDP 51 to the Epson 5020. Perfect picture. For some reason the Marantz would not pass the signal to the projector. It worked with my older Panasonic projector. I have a new Oppo 103 arriving along with a 60 foot Monoprice RedMere cable. I will do some testing when they arrive.

Thanks.

Brian
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 12:12 PM
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Not sure about the firmware yet, but I checked and the deep color is off on the Oppo, so that's not it. Also having sound issues now, so maybe it IS the receiver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlvi3 View Post

I have a new Oppo 103 arriving along with a 60 foot Monoprice RedMere cable. I will do some testing when they arrive.
Thanks.

Great minds think alike, I'm doing exactly the same except for a 15 foot cable. I was going to get the new Oppo anyway before I started having projector issues with the JVC, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger. Let's hope we both have good luck!

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post #15 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Hah, yes. Good luck and I will follow up in a few days after new Oppo arrives. Thanks.

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post #16 of 18 Old 01-02-2013, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlvi3 View Post

I have a new Oppo 103 arriving along with a 60 foot Monoprice RedMere cable. I will do some testing when they arrive.
Thanks.

Remember, that redmere cable is one direction only, connect it correctly with respect to the data flow.
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post #17 of 18 Old 01-02-2013, 12:59 AM
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Cableclub.com has very good inexpensive cables both amplified and non-amp'd..... I use a 35' 1.4 and so far is working great.... Also please join the Epson 5020UB owners thread to share your experience thus far!

Thanks!
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-02-2013, 01:01 AM
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Hi Sam, I just started the 5020UB Owners Thread, please join it so you can share your issue with the OPPO 93.... darn it! I was gonna order one tomorrow 1/2/13 because of the refurbished deal!.... but the HDCP handshake issue can be a deal breaker!
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