Are affordable larger flat panel displays killing front projection? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 12-31-2012, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been having a hard time finding a reasonably priced front projector to replace my 4 year old Panasonic AX200 for the past year or so. Seems like the $1,000-$1,500 price point just doesn't have many choices these days. You'd think that years later you could find a few 1080p 3D models with lens shift...but that's sadly not the case. The Panasonic AR100U and Epson 3020 both fall in this price range, but the former lacks 3D and the latter lens shift. Are manufacturers intentionally raising the price of front projectors? Thinking about it I'm wondering if the lack of options is due to the fact that you can now find quality 60" flat panels for under $1,000, further relegating front projection to a niche market...at a higher price. What do you think? Will this trend hold for 2013 and beyond, particularly as traditional displays get larger and cheaper?

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post #2 of 32 Old 12-31-2012, 01:28 PM
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The new Ben q 1070 is 3D moderate vertical lens shift and under $1000. The Acer 9500, Ben q 7000 and Mits 7800 all are 3D with lense shift and getting very close or below the $1500 point. With the death of the 92" Mits RPTV the next in LCD I have seen is the 80" sharp at about $4000 the front projectors are the only way to get a 100+ screen. They are in no danger and prices are droping all the time all though slowly due to the tight $.

Smart enough to know better, to old to care
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post #3 of 32 Old 12-31-2012, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Clearly I'm not expecting 100"+ flat panels any time soon. But there comes a point where most people would rather have the ease of installation, flexibility of use and longevity of a flat panel display over a front projector. All of us here would rather have our projectors than say a 60" or 70" flat panel...but can you really say that for the average consumer? And with projector prices on the rise I'm afraid that manufacturers are going to produce even less of them going forward. As someone who loves front projection I hope this isn't the case.
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post #4 of 32 Old 12-31-2012, 07:13 PM
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I think when you see the price of 70" displays fall into the sub $1500 range you will start to see front projection setups lose some sales for sure. While lots of people have the space to accommodate 120"+ screens (and dedicated theatre rooms) there are plenty of users of front projection that are hovering around the 90" screen range because of space limitations (usually in multi-purpose rooms and not dedicated theatre rooms). I think a lot of those folks will reconsider a PJ setup if they can get a 70" tv for under $1500 and arguably have better PQ by sacrificing some screen size and avoid the setup of a PJ. I know I personally would as Im putting a PJ in a multi-purpose room. If I had a dedicated theatre room space then forget about it.... cant beat a nice 135" screen from a front projector.

And there is no doubt 70" displays will get under that $1500 mark soon enough.... this one here is getting pretty close:

http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-E701i-A3-70-inch-1080p-120Hz/dp/B009SJNTIY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357009944&sr=8-1&keywords=vizio+70+inch
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post #5 of 32 Old 12-31-2012, 07:33 PM
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If they can hit 120" for $3500 or less, I'm looking.
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post #6 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jnabq View Post

If they can hit 120" for $3500 or less, I'm looking.

And just how would you fit that through the front door? biggrin.gif
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post #7 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 03:16 AM
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I would say this that if the projector companies don't get their act together they will lose out on market share with the more affordable large screen TVs knocking at their door and eating their cake.
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post #8 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber Ale View Post

And just how would you fit that through the front door? biggrin.gif

That's easy, just fold it up biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Or roll it up biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #9 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 12:43 PM
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I would dump my 106" front projection for a 70"+ flat panel, but only if it was plasma. I can't stand LED flat panel displays for watching movie.

As far as cost of front projection is concerned, it is dirt cheap right now. When I got into digital front projection 9 years ago, entry level was at least $2K, mid level was about $5K-$11K and high-end was $15K+. Today's sub $1K, entry level PJs would put all those early digital PJs to shame.
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post #10 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvana_av View Post

I would dump my 106" front projection for a 70"+ flat panel, but only if it was plasma. I can't stand LED flat panel displays for watching movie.
As far as cost of front projection is concerned, it is dirt cheap right now. When I got into digital front projection 9 years ago, entry level was at least $2K, mid level was about $5K-$11K and high-end was $15K+. Today's sub $1K, entry level PJs would put all those early digital PJs to shame.

While I agree that FP is dirt cheap compared to 9 years ago...I'm referring to how costs have not really come down over the last couple of years. Again, I'm coming as someone who prefers the flexibility and convenience of lens shift. While many people here don't need it, I think that's a feature that is welcomed by the majority of people shopping for a projector.
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post #11 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 07:58 PM
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Sounds like the TS has his mind made up. To me its simple you don't see flatpanels for theaters. HOME THEATER is such a loose term but to me you don't have one unless it is a dedicated space and it has a projector in it. Anything else is not a THEATER. So ahead and pay more for a 70 inch with anything but a theatrical feel to it.
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post #12 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 08:49 PM
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I don't see how flat panels are going to take away from projector sells. Its very small to begin with. I have my projector on a shelf behind my couch and my screen that's very light weight on the wall. Extremely easy setup. I know about 3 people with projector setups around me. Thousands and thousands of others don't have them. Its just the feel or the atomsphere that sets it apart to me. Plus, I rather watch a blu ray on a screen to get the movie feel than watch a movie through glass and have that tv feel. But that's just me, and so many others don't even care about it or HD. That's why projectors are such a small market
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post #13 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 11:50 PM
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While I would agree with you on that a projector is the way to go to have that " Theatre " experience, however where the mass market is concerned most people would not fuss with a screen, projector and such and if the screen size if big enough will opt out for a large screen TV with all the gizmos.
I could never really understand all that Smart TV stuff when my PS3 or a Blueray player can do basically everything a Smart TV can other than the hand gestures control thing and I could probably rig some system up with IR sensors.
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post #14 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 11:58 PM
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I know the diehard fans of projectors won't go for a large screen TV but there are people out there who may have a older projector and are debating on whether they should sit and wait for the more affordable LED 1080 P projectors come out or pick up a large screen 70 " and over TV when the prices come down.
Yes, there are some draw backs on trying to get a 70 inch TV down stairs into a narrow basement doorway or steps but many are at the point where the projector manufactures are not listening to the buying public.
If they make it ? they will buy it.
I know one thing ? Any projector company that manages to package a affordable $ 1000 to 2000 range ? LED Laser 1080 P with 3D ready and some short of zoom ? would sell like hot cakes.
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post #15 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 12:03 AM
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Yes, Plasma over LCDs.
I still even have a old CRT HDTV that still runs great and beautiful picture but only 37 inch.
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post #16 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 12:09 AM
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Remember when American car companies thought that they had the market share all to themselves back in the late 60s and when the 1972 oil crises hit they still laughed at the Japanese car companies until people started to buy Japanses compact cars and then the American car companies were in a rush to build a fuel efficient car like the engineering marvel the Ford Pinto ?
The Chevy Vega ? what wonderful Marvels of rush engineering.
Sorry to say the Japanese car makers ate American car companies cake back in the late 70s and early 80s.
Never say never.
That's where the projector companies sit now, like the American car companies back in the late 60s thinking that all is well, thinking that no one is going to eat into our market share.
Look where GM is now ? or Chrysler ?
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post #17 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 02:12 AM
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I helped a good friend of mine install an 80" Sharp LED tv in his family room, I had originaly recommended for the price, an Epson 5020UB with a 113" Black diamond screen. However, he went with the LED. Needless to say the LED looks good.... if you do not know about "refresh rates", "ant crawl", etc... I just got an Epson 5020UB which does not have any of the inherent problems of "live panel" LCD, LED and even Plasmas... He can see the CLEAR differnce now...but it's too late!...take the time to consider how and what you watch and observe the difference if you are able to in order to make the best possible "PERSONAL" choice...

Large screen TV's are getting cheaper it's true... in my experience with home theater however, you don't always get what you pay for, sometimes less is indeed more....way more!
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post #18 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 04:43 AM
 
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When they make large TVs that are AT then I'm all in:D
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post #19 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber Ale View Post

And just how would you fit that through the front door? biggrin.gif
smile.gif Guess I'd have to measure my double french door opening... I think I could get it to fit
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post #20 of 32 Old 01-03-2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ForzaMilan View Post

I just got an Epson 5020UB which does not have any of the inherent problems of "live panel" LCD, LED and even Plasmas... He can see the CLEAR differnce now...but it's too late!...
So who's got buyers regret now, you with PJ or your friend with LED?
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post #21 of 32 Old 01-03-2013, 09:14 AM
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I don't think they are the same market. Maybe there is a slight overlap but FP people have a specific effect and environment they are looking for and large tvs just don't do the things they want. The overlap may widen some when 100" displays become readily available and affordable but for now and the immediate future FP will probably remain a viable choice for home theater.

The PJ market is going through an adjustment period right now where interest is not taking off among the typical viewer like they thought it would. This I firmly believe is because the box stores were unable to properly display the PJ to the typical viewer and they were uninterested in doing so because the profit margin and volume is much smaller for PJs. Nearly every person I have demonstrated my setup to and then showed them how they could do the same thing has added a PJ to their home. You have to show a realistic setup and then give the typical viewer the confidence and information they need to make it happen for them.

There are still several great options for PJ people in all the price ranges and will continue at least until we have interactive walls that can display programming and other visual content desired in the home or business.

This video shows the direction I believe displays are all headed, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkHpNnXLB0
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post #22 of 32 Old 01-03-2013, 10:35 AM
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Projectors don't work for everyone but do we really want everyone to have one? There are 4 people on my block alone with them. But all are settup in a way that is less than ideal or are only 100inch or smaller screens in multi function rooms. It all comes down to what works for you and your family. But when I tell people what I have into my projector and room it really gets them rethinking that 55 inch they just bought and were so proud of.
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post #23 of 32 Old 01-03-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reconlabtech View Post

I don't think they are the same market. Maybe there is a slight overlap but FP people have a specific effect and environment they are looking for and large tvs just don't do the things they want. The overlap may widen some when 100" displays become readily available and affordable but for now and the immediate future FP will probably remain a viable choice for home theater.
The PJ market is going through an adjustment period right now where interest is not taking off among the typical viewer like they thought it would. This I firmly believe is because the box stores were unable to properly display the PJ to the typical viewer and they were uninterested in doing so because the profit margin and volume is much smaller for PJs. Nearly every person I have demonstrated my setup to and then showed them how they could do the same thing has added a PJ to their home. You have to show a realistic setup and then give the typical viewer the confidence and information they need to make it happen for them.
There are still several great options for PJ people in all the price ranges and will continue at least until we have interactive walls that can display programming and other visual content desired in the home or business.
This video shows the direction I believe displays are all headed, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkHpNnXLB0

Stores like best buy really kills the thought of projectors. Every time I go in there, the workers have no clue about them and they have them hooked up to composite cables. Two years ago, they had a Mitsubishi hooked up to composite cables, then last November they had the Sony HW30 just looking terrible. If I was to make a decision between the Sony HW30 and a $300 Qumi, I would have chose the Qumi. Its ridiculous. No one would consider a projector after visiting the best buy where I'm from.

Best Buy was the first store to show me a projector and I was not impressed at all, I was going to spend $5000 on a 82in Mitsubishi. My brother had to convince me to get a projector. He should me YouTube videos and different sites.I paid less than half for my 110in screen and Panasonic AE3000. As big as best buy is, I think they could sell many more projectors.
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post #24 of 32 Old 01-03-2013, 12:26 PM
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Buy was the first store to show me a projector and I was not impressed at all,

Same here, last time I was in to look at a JVC projector it was a mess, they had the worst demo material. Some company BenQ etc. needs something like an Apple store so the general public can go in and just see how good projection looks.
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post #25 of 32 Old 01-03-2013, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Same here, last time I was in to look at a JVC projector it was a mess, they had the worst demo material. Some company BenQ etc. needs something like an Apple store so the general public can go in and just see how good projection looks.

The Sony store actually does a nice job with their projector display...but last I was in there (several years ago) they had a 20k unit hooked up. lol
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post #26 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

So who's got buyers regret now, you with PJ or your friend with LED?

Let's see.....80" Sharp LED $5000.00........ Epson HC5020UB $2500.00I use a 120" Elunevision Silver Perlux screen from eastporters $500.00......that's $3000.00 for a Clean, Ultra Sharp, 3D Picture...... who do you think got buyers regret?

Keep in mind that both buyers of a Large TV and Front PJ system will most likely also invest in Receiver, Speakers, BD player etc.....

At the end of the day you could very well build a complete HT system with a PJ for the price of a large TV.......
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post #27 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaMilan View Post

Let's see.....80" Sharp LED $5000.00........ Epson HC5020UB $2500.00I use a 120" Elunevision Silver Perlux screen from eastporters $500.00......that's $3000.00 for a Clean, Ultra Sharp, 3D Picture...... who do you think got buyers regret?
It's all clear if you put it this way... biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvana_av View Post

I would dump my 106" front projection for a 70"+ flat panel, but only if it was plasma. I can't stand LED flat panel displays for watching movie.
As far as cost of front projection is concerned, it is dirt cheap right now. When I got into digital front projection 9 years ago, entry level was at least $2K, mid level was about $5K-$11K and high-end was $15K+. Today's sub $1K, entry level PJs would put all those early digital PJs to shame.

Agree that it would have to be plasma. I've hung 65" plasma displays before and they're beasts. At least two grown men and a big boy mount preferably spanning three studs. I imagine a 70+" plasma panel is more than most people are comfortable maneuvering. I've installed 70" and 80" LCD's without an issue as they're much lighter.
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post #29 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 11:10 AM
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Panasonic 65VT50 is roughly the same weight as my Sony 24" CRT monitor... 100 pounds biggrin.gif
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post #30 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 11:14 AM
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That could very well be the reason we're not seeing really large plasmas. As long as the largest plasmas stay at 65", I will be keeping my front projector.
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