3LCD vs DLP - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to decide between two projectors:

BenQ W1070 - $1050
Epson 3020 - $1400 (Two 3D glasses included)

The Epson is 3LCD and the BenQ is DLP. I haven't had a chance to try them both or see them in person so I'm turning to the advanced users in this forum for some advice. I guess what I'm really asking is what's a better buy? For what it's worth, I can make the viewing environment pitch black if need be.
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 12:47 AM
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There are about 100 factors that make one PJ better than another. Sort out what things matter to you.
A few questions to get you started:

What throw distance/screen size do you need?
How many lumens will you need for your screen size?
Do you care about 3d?
How much ambient light will you usually have during viewing?
How close will you sit do the PJ and how much noise will bother you?
What will you use the PJ for?
Do you game and care about Lag?
(there are a ton more items to think about)

All PJ look better in the pitch black.

Why not the optma hd33 or the ptax-100u, Maybe the hc4000? 8700ub b-stock?


Have fun!
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post #3 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 06:31 AM
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Newegg has awsome deal on the Acer H9500BD untill the 7TH. Close in price to the BenQ

Smart enough to know better, to old to care
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post

Newegg has awsome deal on the Acer H9500BD untill the 7TH. Close in price to the BenQ


That's a great price.

I believe the H9500BD uses DC2 chip?

Also, it's lacking full CMS controls for calibration?
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 02:08 PM
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Out of those 2, I'd probably go with the Benq but you should make sure you & your guests can tolerate RBE(Rainbow Effect).
A good movie to test if you can tolerate RBE on a DLP is a black and white movie like Sin City or Casablanca.

2014
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Out of those 2, I'd probably go with the Benq but you should make sure you & your guests can tolerate RBE(Rainbow Effect).
A good movie to test if you can tolerate RBE on a DLP is a black and white movie like Sin City or Casablanca.


Just curious why you prefer the Benq over the Acer?
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 11:02 PM
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If you watch alot of 3d, dlp is the way to go. if you see rainbows on dlp, epson (lcd) is the way to go. You have to see to decide for yourself.
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by coug7669 View Post

If you watch alot of 3d, dlp is the way to go. if you see rainbows on dlp, epson (lcd) is the way to go. You have to see to decide for yourself.


They are both DLP. BenQ and Acer.
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Just curious why you prefer the Benq over the Acer?
I was comparing the Epson and Benq.
With those 2 models being compared, the black level is about the same so it comes down to PQ.
The 1080p Benq projectors have picture sharpness that can not be had with any 3 panel projector.
They come close but once you've seen a Benq, it's hard to argue which one is sharpest in PQ.

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post #10 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 10:45 AM
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ohh..i see.

i agreed. i first had an Optoma DLP. move to an Epson. but now looking to move back to DLP.
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post #11 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 06:21 PM
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any specific reason for moving to DLP?

I am confused between lcd and dlp. from forums i found DLP are dark and has rainbow problem.

did u find any issues with lcd?

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post #12 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evacassar View Post

any specific reason for moving to DLP?
I am confused between lcd and dlp. from forums i found DLP are dark and has rainbow problem.
did u find any issues with lcd?
Here are a few items to view
https://www.google.com/#q=dlp+vs+lcd+projector&safe=off

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post #13 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evacassar View Post

any specific reason for moving to DLP?
I am confused between lcd and dlp. from forums i found DLP are dark and has rainbow problem.
did u find any issues with lcd?
LCD uses three panels all trying to project a single image by layering the primary colors on top of each other which can result in an image that's not as sharp and limited to the rgb spectrum...dlp have a wider color gamut and unlike the LCD panels which are organic and constantly breaking down in chemical composition. A SDLP won't have color shift problems unless there's a failure in the color wheel which can be replaced. Many LCD machines also give the effect of looking through a screen door although Ive read they have improved them a lot in recent years ( also true with dlp).
Dlps are sharper in general than most LCD counterparts.
The fact is a small portion of people are actually bothered by and can see rainbows when sitting the correct minimum distance from any given screen size if your sitting too close and find you have to dart your hwad back and forth and are constantly darting your eyes across the screen to focus on what's going on than you are more likely to see and be bothered by rainbows. This is also why there is so little mention of them in the rear projection world where the screen is smaller.. but even then their are those that seem to obsess about them and are then bothered by them and those that choose just to ignore them and eventually don't even notice them anymore... this is sometimes a subconscious decision depending one a persons personality... Its one of those things you just have to see for yourself now that your aware of them.
I myself have never had a guest complain of seek g them and have installed 5 dlp systems for friends who have seen my setup and wanted one of their own.
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post #14 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

LCD uses three panels all trying to project a single image by layering the primary colors on top of each other which can result in an image that's not as sharp and limited to the rgb spectrum...dlp have a wider color gamut and unlike the LCD panels which are organic and constantly breaking down in chemical composition. A SDLP won't have color shift problems unless there's a failure in the color wheel which can be replaced. Many LCD machines also give the effect of looking through a screen door although Ive read they have improved them a lot in recent years ( also true with dlp).
Dlps are sharper in general than most LCD counterparts.
The fact is a small portion of people are actually bothered by and can see rainbows when sitting the correct minimum distance from any given screen size if your sitting too close and find you have to dart your hwad back and forth and are constantly darting your eyes across the screen to focus on what's going on than you are more likely to see and be bothered by rainbows. This is also why there is so little mention of them in the rear projection world where the screen is smaller.. but even then their are those that seem to obsess about them and are then bothered by them and those that choose just to ignore them and eventually don't even notice them anymore... this is sometimes a subconscious decision depending one a persons personality... Its one of those things you just have to see for yourself now that your aware of them.
I myself have never had a guest complain of seek g them and have installed 5 dlp systems for friends who have seen my setup and wanted one of their own.

Now that was a great example of a passive aggressive opinion. You have maximized a negative opinion about the LCD technology and minimized and or overlooked several of the faults of DLP technology. What you seem to perceive as sharp many people perceive as harsh. You also failed to mention anything about the DLP chip itself failing. The MAIN problem with the LCD technology is the Blue screen LCD Panel failing after 6000+ hours. The DLP issue is the Color wheel. It is MUCH easier to replace a LCD Panel and Polarizer than it is to replace a DLP wheel - Bohanna
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post #15 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Now that was a great example of a passive aggressive opinion. You have maximized a negative opinion about the LCD technology and minimized and or overlooked several of the faults of DLP technology. What you seem to perceive as sharp many people perceive as harsh. You also failed to mention anything about the DLP chip itself failing. The MAIN problem with the LCD technology is the Blue screen LCD Panel failing after 6000+ hours. The DLP issue is the Color wheel. It is MUCH easier to replace a LCD Panel and Polarizer than it is to replace a DLP wheel - Bohanna
your right andake many good points... I didn't have a lot of time to polish the rough points of my comments as I was inline at a McDonalds in a thruway rest stop when I wrote it but it just reinforces my comments about different personalities forming different opinions about the same thing...even about topics that have been scientifically debunked... for example if you look here you will find comments where people insist they can "hear" the difference between $20 16awg and $100 "monster" brand speaker wire.
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post #16 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post


your right andake many good points... I didn't have a lot of time to polish the rough points of my comments as I was inline at a McDonalds in a thruway rest stop when I wrote it but it just reinforces my comments about different personalities forming different opinions about the same thing...even about topics that have been scientifically debunked... for example if you look here you will find comments where people insist they can "hear" the difference between $20 16awg and $100 "monster" brand speaker wire.


You can "hear" the difference if your environment has a problem with high levels of EMI(which can create other issues as well) which is more likely to present itself with the $20 unshielded cable vs a 100$ shielded cable, but move to an inexpensive shielded audio cable and the difference is gone. For long cable runs the only real difference will be a slight difference in output level due to the lower quality cable having greater resistance.

The main thing when doing any comparison is comparing Apples to Apples. Unshielded vs Shielded or Single Chip DLP vs 3 Chip LCD is comparing Apples to Oranges. They are both fruit, but their uses are different and people will have a preference for one or the other based on taste alone. Comparing 3 Chip DLP vs 3 Chip LCD would be more comparable, but as DLP is the newer tech than LCD, DLP chips tend to individually be more expensive the LCD chips. A 3 Chip DLP won't have the rainbow issues and keeps most of DLP's advantages, but at the same time can introduce convergence issues similar to those that can sometimes be see with 3LCD and due to optics is much more expensive(3DLP that is).

P.S. I agree with auggie in that if one is not sensitive to RBE, it's generally better to go with DLP.

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post #17 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 12:10 PM
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I'm talking about the speaker wire not the low level rca input wires.... in a home theater environment every study I have read about to date states that as long as the correct gauge wire is used the human ear as well as the testing equipment they used could not distinguish the two...
Back on topic,
I was fontunate enough to have owned my x1 for a few months before I knew anything about the rainbow effect... Once I read here on how its easy to see them when darting your eyes across a high contrast scene like a science with a bright flashlight in a black background I could easily point them out.... but then I though " This is silly I never notice them before and they never bothered me when I didn't know about them" so I just ignored them and 5 SDLP projectors later I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I consciously noticed one... maybe 13 years ago.
There are exceptions to every rule but all I'm trying to say is go to a demo center like best buy and see both for yourself before making any decision to parrot the opinions of others. .. negative comments spread much faster than positive ones and you have to be objective.
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post #18 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 12:15 PM
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A single chip LCD would have a terrible picture different tech so the fairest comparison is to compare by price in my opinion.
look at plasma technology it may be better than LCD but its being phased out slowly anyway Panasonic just announced today that they're done making a plasma televisions they stated LCD just has too many cost advantages
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post #19 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

your right andake many good points... I didn't have a lot of time to polish the rough points of my comments as I was inline at a McDonalds in a thruway rest stop when I wrote it but it just reinforces my comments about different personalities forming different opinions about the same thing...even about topics that have been scientifically debunked... for example if you look here you will find comments where people insist they can "hear" the difference between $20 16awg and $100 "monster" brand speaker wire.

Are you serious?? I can CLEARLY hear the difference between a 20 dollar 16 gauge cable and a 100.00 Monster cable.

The 20.00 dollar cable makes a ka Ching sound come out of my wallet

The 100.00 Dollar cables makes a KA Ching - KA Ching - KA Ching CA CHOMP sound . If you can't hear the difference I suggest you have a hearing test!!

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post #20 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 02:04 PM
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*Assuming the DLP & 3LCD projectors are in the same price range and relatively current models

DLP pros:
Sharp picture
No 3D ghosting
Smooth motion doing fast panning/action

DLP cons:
Rainbow Effect
Usually more light leakage around case
Color wheel whine
Fan is louder
Black level/Contast is low
Limited lens shift(if it even has one)
Premature Color wheel failure
====================================

3LCD pros:
No Rainbow Effect
Less light leak due to better case construction
No color wheel whine
Fan is quiet
Better black level/contrast
Inorganic panels - longer life than organic panels
Lens Shift

3LCD cons:
Picture may be soft if 3LCD panel is not aligned perfectly(convergence) from the factory
3D ghosting(this appears to be a lot less on panels with 240hz)
Screen door effect if you sit very close to the screen size
Picture not as smooth on fast motion panning/action

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post #21 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 04:00 PM
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For me rainbows have never been a problem.

I chose DLP for the fact that I am a gamer, and DLP projectors are generally known to have LESS input lag then LCD based.

Just another thing to consider.

Outtie

I don't have alot of posts since I joined AVS Forums in 2004. I mainly read the information in threads as a source of research material. - quoted from The Outcast in April 2007.
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post #22 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

*Assuming the DLP & 3LCD projectors are in the same price range and relatively current models

DLP pros:
Sharp picture
No 3D ghosting
Smooth motion doing fast panning/action

DLP cons:
Rainbow Effect
Usually more light leakage around case
Color wheel whine
Fan is louder
Black level/Contast is low
Limited lens shift(if it even has one)
Premature Color wheel failure
====================================

3LCD pros:
No Rainbow Effect
Less light leak due to better case construction
No color wheel whine
Fan is quiet
Better black level/contrast
Inorganic panels - longer life than organic panels
Lens Shift

3LCD cons:
Picture may be soft if 3LCD panel is not aligned perfectly(convergence) from the factory
3D ghosting(this appears to be a lot less on panels with 240hz)
Screen door effect if you sit very close to the screen size
Picture not as smooth on fast motion panning/action

One LCD con not mentioned here is one of the worst ones is unsealed light path leads to dust blobs

Smart enough to know better, to old to care
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post #23 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post


One LCD con not mentioned here is one of the worst ones is unsealed light path leads to dust blobs


Trying to clean my last PJ was what finished killing it after the dust blobs became to much to bare.

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post #24 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreationz View Post


Trying to clean my last PJ was what finished killing it after the dust blobs became to much to bare.

Search this board for "Fuzzy sticks" Its a little secret trick I developed several years ago that I thought I would pass on to the Kind and friendly people who frequent this board !

Better yet go here as a starting point!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1369211/any-way-to-diy-cleaning-of-dirty-internal-optics

Bohanna
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