Motion handling BenQ W1070 vs w7000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Considering these two projectors... I understand that both do an excellent job with 3D, with the W7000 using frame interpolation and the W1070 144Hz (has triple-flash been confirmed?). This will be my primary PJ for watching HDTV (lots of sports) in a non-dedicated environment... would I be right to assume that the W7000 would look better for sports giving the advantages of FI, or is it a poor implementation for 2D and thus not worth the extra $ for that feature? For that matter, is FI on a DLP even necessary for 60Hz content?

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #2 of 10 Old 01-20-2013, 12:40 AM
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Excellent questions.

Also, the 7k has the Rhineland cert. which states it has 'true hd 3d' for each eye. Does that imply the w1070 does not?
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post #3 of 10 Old 01-21-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dekkerEssex7 View Post

Excellent questions.

Also, the 7k has the Rhineland cert. which states it has 'true hd 3d' for each eye. Does that imply the w1070 does not?

Both have full 1080p resolutiion in 3D mode for each eye. This is true for all 1080p 3D consumer projectors currently be sold.

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post #4 of 10 Old 01-23-2013, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Both have full 1080p resolutiion in 3D mode for each eye. This is true for all 1080p 3D consumer projectors currently be sold.


Thanx, getting up to speed
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post #5 of 10 Old 01-24-2013, 11:38 PM
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I don't know much about the older w7000, but I enjoy frame interpolation and my w1070 doesn't have any. However, I'm more than happy using my PC to do it, since most TV shows and material is encoded at 24/25/30hz and not 60hz. 144hz 3D is only for 24p Blurays, and while nice, I'd rather 120hz double-flashed (30hz in 3D) than 144hz triple flashed. I tried both in videogames and the diff between 24hz and 30hz is pretty noticeable.

On 60hz 2D content there is no point in even thinking about frame interpolation on the w1070, since you'll get no benefit whatsoever (1080p/60hz is the maximum the hdmi 1.4 cable will transmit anyway). If the projector itself could do interpolation up to 120hz or 72hz / double flashed to 144hz, that'd be something nice. I used to love setting my PS2-Rate frequency up to 72hz on my PS2 mice and CRT monitors back in the day. I wish I could get more than 60hz quite frankly. My next PJ will have to do at least 120hz and accept true 1060p/60 in 3D frame packed or even 2560/1080/120 2D for me to get excited. And that's mostly because I like smoother video. But smoothing upstream is a poor subtitute for PC gamers since it introduces lag. Much better to have the entire hardware chain capable of transmitting the raw data from the source at the higher rates. (IMO)

It IS a real pain to get interpolation in 3D to work though, even if it is only to up it from 24hz to 30hz. A TON of TV shows are encoded in 24hz, it's really annoying. I'd rather 60hz native everywhere.
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post #6 of 10 Old 01-25-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

Considering these two projectors... I understand that both do an excellent job with 3D, with the W7000 using frame interpolation and the W1070 144Hz (has triple-flash been confirmed?). This will be my primary PJ for watching HDTV (lots of sports) in a non-dedicated environment... would I be right to assume that the W7000 would look better for sports giving the advantages of FI, or is it a poor implementation for 2D and thus not worth the extra $ for that feature? For that matter, is FI on a DLP even necessary for 60Hz content?

I have actually found the w7000 FI to be ok in 2d for SOME things (after now having put 200 hours on my Benq w7000).

I don't like the soap opera effect for 2D, but let me explain:

With Netflix streaming, I started using FI on low for some things, because the Netflix compression scheme is sometimes dropping frames and makes motion so so choppy, enabling FI at LOW helps just a little (not that much), and it doesn't add the SOAP opera effect in this scenario really since the Netflix MOTION is so choppy to being with at times that the FI just offsets it (not sure if I was using it at 24p or 60hz from the Netflix signal, forgot to look).

I think the FI should work fine for sports in 2D on the w7000. Also, I do think with tweaks the dynamic IRIS will work ok once the lamp is dim enough on the w7000, and I suspect that the w7000 might have a slightly better image than the w1070 overall, but impossible to say without an A/B. My favorite feature of the w7000 though is being able to use the IRIS as a manual IRIS and lowering brightness to exactly the correct levels for 2D as needed, without an ND filter. This is really very nice at this price point, my JVC also does this. My biggest issue with the w1070 would be not being able to control the brightness like the w7000 can, so in that case most are going to need ND filters for the w1070.

Given the greater placement flexibility of the Benq w7000 with center-based lens shift, the better throw range (don't have to mount it as short throw as the 1070), and the adjustable IRIS, and the FI, I think it's worth it to me. Also, keep in mind even IF the w1070 is slightly brighter in 3D mode than the Benq w7000 (unconfirmed), for those of that use Da-Lite High Power screens, we still get brighter 3D from the w7000 because of the HP's center-based gain.


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post #7 of 10 Old 01-25-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

(has triple-flash been confirmed?).

not by BenQ, but by Andy_Cres, a private german user´s, measurment´s, published in this thread, (post 22) http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=94&thread=12583
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post #8 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I don't know much about the older w7000, but I enjoy frame interpolation and my w1070 doesn't have any. However, I'm more than happy using my PC to do it, since most TV shows and material is encoded at 24/25/30hz and not 60hz. 144hz 3D is only for 24p Blurays, and while nice, I'd rather 120hz double-flashed (30hz in 3D) than 144hz triple flashed. I tried both in videogames and the diff between 24hz and 30hz is pretty noticeable.

On 60hz 2D content there is no point in even thinking about frame interpolation on the w1070, since you'll get no benefit whatsoever (1080p/60hz is the maximum the hdmi 1.4 cable will transmit anyway). If the projector itself could do interpolation up to 120hz or 72hz / double flashed to 144hz, that'd be something nice. I used to love setting my PS2-Rate frequency up to 72hz on my PS2 mice and CRT monitors back in the day. I wish I could get more than 60hz quite frankly. My next PJ will have to do at least 120hz and accept true 1060p/60 in 3D frame packed or even 2560/1080/120 2D for me to get excited. And that's mostly because I like smoother video. But smoothing upstream is a poor subtitute for PC gamers since it introduces lag. Much better to have the entire hardware chain capable of transmitting the raw data from the source at the higher rates. (IMO)

It IS a real pain to get interpolation in 3D to work though, even if it is only to up it from 24hz to 30hz. A TON of TV shows are encoded in 24hz, it's really annoying. I'd rather 60hz native everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I have actually found the w7000 FI to be ok in 2d for SOME things (after now having put 200 hours on my Benq w7000).

I don't like the soap opera effect for 2D, but let me explain:

With Netflix streaming, I started using FI on low for some things, because the Netflix compression scheme is sometimes dropping frames and makes motion so so choppy, enabling FI at LOW helps just a little (not that much), and it doesn't add the SOAP opera effect in this scenario really since the Netflix MOTION is so choppy to being with at times that the FI just offsets it (not sure if I was using it at 24p or 60hz from the Netflix signal, forgot to look).

I think the FI should work fine for sports in 2D on the w7000. Also, I do think with tweaks the dynamic IRIS will work ok once the lamp is dim enough on the w7000, and I suspect that the w7000 might have a slightly better image than the w1070 overall, but impossible to say without an A/B. My favorite feature of the w7000 though is being able to use the IRIS as a manual IRIS and lowering brightness to exactly the correct levels for 2D as needed, without an ND filter. This is really very nice at this price point, my JVC also does this. My biggest issue with the w1070 would be not being able to control the brightness like the w7000 can, so in that case most are going to need ND filters for the w1070.

Given the greater placement flexibility of the Benq w7000 with center-based lens shift, the better throw range (don't have to mount it as short throw as the 1070), and the adjustable IRIS, and the FI, I think it's worth it to me. Also, keep in mind even IF the w1070 is slightly brighter in 3D mode than the Benq w7000 (unconfirmed), for those of that use Da-Lite High Power screens, we still get brighter 3D from the w7000 because of the HP's center-based gain.


I have the w1070 and like it. How do I use my laptop for FI for tv shows/sports? Yes, I have them connected to use the laptop as a source, but sounds like I can use the laptop processing to do FI for tv?

I may return the w1070 and save for the w7000 for FI in 3d as Brian at Visual Apex says in an a/b, yea you notice it, but you won't if you only have w1070 by itself. How different is it?

Do either of you have opinions based on experience of 1070/7000 black levels b/c of dark chip2 vs. dc3? My understanding is dc3 has smaller gaps btwn. mirrors and more polished finish, yet 7000 has 50k:1 native contrast, so this means the implementation of the dc2 is more refined/tweaked than imp. of dc3 at present?

I understand that 3d is more about depth of image than (Z-) than pop out (Z+), but I am VERY INTERESTED to know if w7000 allows/processes for more Z+ (while I understand it comes down to how the content was produced/shot).

I appreciate when possible; I have about 15 days left to return this....
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post #9 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 06:30 AM
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Since I didn't use the FI on the W7000 because of the distortion it adds to the image, I think both handle motion about the same. Without FI of course.
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post #10 of 10 Old 03-03-2013, 10:34 AM
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Cant speak to the 1070, but I own the 7000. I find the FI implementation excellent on this projector, at least compared to my JVC 40/45. There are 3 settings (low, med, high) and the lowest setting is mild, but very effective IMO. For 3d, I actually find the native motion on the 7000 a bit distracting and choppy, but once FI is enabled on low it is flat out perfect and looks very natural to my eyes with no soap opera effect. Having lived with FI in 3d now, I would not want to be without it and this was something I was always craving on my JVC when watching 3d.

Only 2d I have really watched on the 7000 is a few video games which I leave FI off to reduce lag and motion looks excellent in its native form. It is just 3d for whatever reason that the native motion looks choppy and off (3:2 pulldown?).

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