Please convince me that I don't need lens shift! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I realize the obvious answer to this is likely: take due attention to the installation of the projector mount/projector and screen and you will never need lens shift.

And as an avid DIY'er with a pretty darn decent skill set, I acknowledge this reality and likely, my unnecessary apprehension.

STILL, as a soon-to-be first time PJ owner, I cannot escape the thought that there's a very good chance that the center of my screen will not perfectly align with the center of my PJ lens and I will be SOL, short, of remounting my (ceiling hung) screen or mount.

The idea that lens shift would allow me to adjust for this inch or two in seconds vs the former is absurdly enticing to a newbie like me. Add this to the fact that I will likely remove the PJ on occasion to watch movies and sports outdoors on occasion during the summer months.

Am I missing something here, or is lens shift really that huge? I was ecstatic at the idea of buying a $900 benq1070, but the complete lack of horizontal LS and very small vertical LS has me very apprehensive now, and I'm pretty much in love with the brighter (I have a good amount of ambient light in my living room, during the day) Panasonic AR100...with lens shift...but with almost certainly lesser blacks and overall image quality.

Is this simply a matter of picking a spot for the PJ mount, and measuring to two (measured) identical points to the L and R for the screen mount (forming an equilateral triangle)?

thanks for any advice, and please do not resist speaking to the ease/importance of lens shift if you believe it to be so. biggrin.gif

James

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post #2 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 10:32 AM
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You will need a projector mount that allows a little adjustment horizontally and vertically. I think the easiest and surest method then is to measure carefully where the projector should be mounted, and then hold the projector in that spot turned on and putting an image on the screen. Confirm that it is the correct location and then drill the holes in your ceiling for your mount. Final adjustment - an inch here or there - you achieve within the mount. So there, you don't need lens shift.
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post #3 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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^ That's precisely what I'm looking for (also need a low profile mount for a 7' ceiling, of course), but I'm not finding.

Perhaps the terminology for left to right horizontal movement is my downfall. (?) This peerless for instance, offers "tilt and roll" but is that what I'm looking for? http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGUNV-Precision-Universal-Projector/dp/B000TXNS6G/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360176233&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=peerless+porojector+moutn

Onward, sure, I can simply ensure the PJ is mounted within the "zoom range" of my desired screen size, and then mount the PJ and THEN mark/place the screen, but this just seems so crude and archaic to me, no offense to anyone.

And again, can I trust the mount/position to stay true after removing the PJ on occasion for use outside?

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #4 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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It's funny, when I first started this PJ journey, I never assumed any PJ I would consider in this day and age would lack something like lens shift...whatever I was calling LS in my mind at the time, anyway. tongue.gif

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #5 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 01:43 PM
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I have had both projectors with lense shift and some without. My previous epson 6100 had so much lense shift I could have placed it anywhere on my back wall and still center it on the screen. Without lense shift it is not as critical as you think to get it centered + or - a few inches is not going to introduce a noticeable amout of keystone to be noticed. So unless your room is very out of square just measure from both walls to center or where ever you want to place it and rotate the projector to line up your image. If you will be takeing it down often unless you want to spend 1/2 hour or more setting it back up get something with lense shift.

Smart enough to know better, to old to care
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post #6 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 02:06 PM
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I guess for me, since I never had a PJ with lens shift , I guess in my situations I don't need it. Now, I tilt, move closer or further away from screen, zoom in or zoom out, place it on bookshelf, or table, or whatever and adjust until it does fit. Some people want the PJ in one place, and only one place, so yeah, I guess lens shift would be important to them. I like improvising and doing whatever it takes TO MAKE IT WORK. But lens shift sounds like I wouldn't have to be bending over backwards to get it to "work". smile.gif
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 03:51 PM
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It sounds like you will be using it in more than one place. I really think you want lens shift for the flexibility just for temporary setups. It is one thing to ben over backward for a main setup and not mess with it again it is a whole other do to this dance just for a few hours of use in other spots.
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post #8 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmannth View Post

It sounds like you will be using it in more than one place. I really think you want lens shift for the flexibility just for temporary setups. It is one thing to ben over backward for a main setup and not mess with it again it is a whole other do to this dance just for a few hours of use in other spots.

I was actually reversing what you are saying, I'm thinking with temp setup, it's really easy to set it up, because it's not locked down on ceiling mount, so just move the PJ around, since it's temp setup, tabletop, bookcase, couch, etc, dump it 8-12 feet straight back from screen and for a couple of hours, focus on the screen and not how the room looks , with the PJ on a table or whatever, since the lights are turned off, anyway. smile.gif
Although, yeah, lens shift would be good for temp setups too, but, it is easy to just move the PJ until it works, for a movie or football game, that is how I do it, and nobody cares. Pack it up when done and their room is back to normal.
Most portable type PJ's don't have lens shift, usually more expensive models do have lens shift , and it is a nice feature, for the person who needs it.

The thread title sort of says " please convince me that I don't need lens shift", so I was trying to convince him. biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 04:49 PM
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I have had projectors with both lens shift and without ... my current projector has no lens shift and since it is permanently mounted on a perfectly positioned mount: aside from taking a little longer to align, and having had to re-adjust the stops on my electric screen ... I don't miss it.

Please convince me that I don't need lens shift!

- Can you use a measuring tape?
- Can you do some basic math?
- Can you put the mount at the right location on a ceiling beam, or use some good quality anchors?
- Are you ok with the top of the screen aligning to your lens once mounted?

No lens shift required! As stated above most mount will allow a bit of fudge factor. And you can live up to your moto "VALUE is critical" by saving money, or perhaps getting other features instead.

Please convince me that I need lens shift!

- Want to put you projector almost anywhere and get a perfect picture buy turning some dials?
- Want to just guess where the ceiling mount should be, and screw it on the nearest beam?
- Want to align it perfectly on the screen with pit-stop crew speed?
- Want to use it on a corner table, at any hight? Move it around whenever re-decorating?
- Want to obsess over whether your screen should be a few inches higher or lower for optimal neck angle? And adjust in a few seconds?
- Dont even want a digital keystone correction feature to be buried in the SW, and coming anywhere near your picture quality?
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post #10 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 04:51 PM
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I travel with my pj a bit and lots of times you need to put it out of the way. You don't want to put in on the table where people put their drinks, it is just not good. 8-12 feet back is right where people will sit. Maybe you want to put it behind and above people a bit, most non lens shift PJs cant do this. I have a mobile scree that is at a fixed height, lens shift and good zoom all the way for this sort of stuff.

In a fixed spot. Measure 3 times cut once. Must the PJ first, screen 2nd and hope your screen placement didn't get too weird.
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 04:53 PM
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Lens shift is a nice feature to have if needed, no doubt, but it is best to avoid using it for optimal image quality (especially with projectors in this area of the forum, <$3K).

Jason

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post #12 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input everyone.
I'm actually happy that nothing significant was introduced that I had not already read or thought about.

Still, two things:

1. The whole "you don't have to be dead on with a DLP/PJ with no LS, pretty much stems from keystoning, correct? And the point is that a little k-stoning isn't a big deal?

2. I'm now aware that the amount of LS needed to move a screen image a few images has ANY ill effects...am I wrong?

I guess all else being equal, I'll take the ease of LS and no/less ill effects on image quality.

Basically, it just seems to be personal choice, powered of course by the particular application.

Personally, in my current app, there's just no way I would want to go without it. Perhaps down the line my scenario will change and it will be less compelling, but right now, I'm gonna stay shifty.

Thanks,
James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #13 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 07:29 PM
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It's like extra's on buying a new car. Lens Shift is a luxury feature. smile.gif
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post #14 of 15 Old 02-06-2013, 07:42 PM
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Both Digital Keystone and Lens Shift should be avoided if possible.

The amount the image will suffer varies by the amount of each feature in use and from model to model.

Lens shift in moderation is better than extreme amounts while digital keystone of even a single click can cause a loss of resolution (no longer 1:1) and create other issues.

However most people that use these features generally claim they are not bothered by the results or cannot see the difference (it is there never the less).

Now how much this matters is a personal choice that each of us has to make.

Jason

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post #15 of 15 Old 02-10-2013, 11:16 PM
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