Greater lens shift: Panasonic PT-AR100U or Epson 8350? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 02-26-2013, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Which projector has greater vertical lens shift, the Panasonic PT-AR100U or the Epson 8350? In need a lot of lens shift because my projector is sitting almost on the floor, below the bottom edge of my 106" screen.
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post #2 of 21 Old 02-26-2013, 10:41 AM
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I have the AR 100 and can state it has every bit of its claimed 65% of vertical screen height vertical shift. I have mine mounted 12" from the ceiling and shifted it down 14" with ease and had another ~14" or so in the tank with a 84" screen.

Still, the Epson offers 96% of screen height, assuming no horizontal adjustment which will limit that figure.

How low is the bottom of your screen? I'd think either would work unless the PJ is literally on the floor and the screen is very high. Off the top of my head, the AR100 would move the center of a 106" screen up nearly 3 feet (~34") with the 100 over 4' (~50") with the Epson 8350.

James

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post #3 of 21 Old 02-26-2013, 10:45 AM
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So:

If the PJ is 12" off the floor the center of the screen could end up being 4 to 5 feet off the floor with the max shift of either.

As long as the bottom of your screen is at least 20" off the floor and the PJ 1 foot, , either will work.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #4 of 21 Old 02-26-2013, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd like to put the projector about 3 inches off the floor . My screen is 1.5 feet or 2 feet off the floor. I'll measure tonight.

I currently have a a Planar PD7150 which has lens shift specs: +/-15% (horizontal), + 100%, -65% (vertical, ceiling mounted)

If I am shifting up, is it 100%? With this projector, I have to raise it to about 1 foot off the ground with maximum vertical shift to get it onto the screen.
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post #5 of 21 Old 02-26-2013, 12:28 PM
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^ correct...it has more upwards vertical shift than either of the PJ's you're considering.

The 3" PJ height and the 2' foot off the floor screen bottom throws out the AR 100 and is prolly right at the limit of the 8350.

Matter of fact, the AR 100 seems to be out, period from what you've supplied.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #6 of 21 Old 02-26-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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If my PD7150 has more lens shift than the Epson 8350, it seems that won't work either. I'm beginning to wonder if there is a projector that WILL work!
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post #7 of 21 Old 02-26-2013, 12:57 PM
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Then your data on your PJ's lens shift is inaccurate as I cannot understand why it wouldn't based upon the data you submitted. Basically- again, according to the data- you have 52" up potential shift that should accomplish the job- even 3" off the floor.

At most, 24" to the bottom of the screen -3" off the floor equals 21" to get the middle of the image to the bottom of the screen...then another 26" to the middle of the screen equals 47".

Should work as far as I can tell.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #8 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, James. I do hope that my projector's spec sheet is inaccurate!
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I looked at the Lens Shift information from projectorreviews.com and now I'm even more confused. The reviews state that the AR100U has more lens shift, being able to move 32 inches below the bottom of the screen surface compared to 22.7 for the Epson. What's going on ?!?


PT-AR100U Lens Shift

This Panasonic has plenty of lens shift as well as lens flexibility ! For that same 100 inch screen, the PT-AR100U can be placed, (normal or inverted), anywhere from about 32 inches above the top of the screen surface, all the way down to 32 inches below the bottom of the screen surface. That is measured from the center of the lens. There is also a good amount of horizontal lens shift. Using horizontal lens shift will partially limit the range of the vertical lens shift (and vice versa).

The combination of the wide range zoom lens, plenty of lens shift, gives you the flexibility to ceiling mount or shelf mount the PT-AR100U in almost all room situations.


Epson 8350

This Epson has plenty of lens shift too! For that same 100 inch screen, the Epson can be placed, (normal or inverted), anywhere from 22.7 inches above the top of the screen surface, all the way down to 22.7 inches below the bottom of the screen surface. That is measured from the center of the lens. There is also a good amount of horizontal lens shift. Using horizontal lens shift will partially limit the range of the vertical lens shift (and vice versa).

The combination of the wide range zoom lens, and excellent lens shift, makes ceiling mounting, or shelf mounting practical, in almost any room situattion.
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post #10 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 08:57 AM
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I have never figured out why projector reviews uses such a confusing explanation rather than simply stating: "with the AR:100 you can (potentially) move a 100" image up or down 32" (49" screen height X .65).

In that light, on a 100" screen they/he are correct re the AR 100, you would be able to shift the image up or down about 32 inches.

You CANNOT however, following their explanation- place the PJ 32" above the TOP of the image, but rather, since the PJ- unaltered- shoots the image straight ahead, after lowering it its max (assuming you're not using the horizontal shift) you will only lower the CENTER of the image 32 inches which means that the projector- after you factor in the reality that it's starting in the middle of the image- will only be 7 1/2" above the TOP of the image...the projector will of course now be 32 inches above the CENTER of the image... which is of course a very nice thing to be able to do as you could plant the PJ pretty much directly on a low ceiling and still project an image down the wall a good bit.

In my personal low-ceiling case for instance, it was nice to be able to mount the AR 100 HIGH up along the back wall and still be able to shift the image down to work.

Now, the epson...I'll check it out and get back to you as they (epson) traditionally offer a considerable amount of LS and do not see why that wouldn't be the case with the 8350.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #11 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 09:12 AM
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Ok, no, according to the 8350 manual...

page 12: As a rule of thumb, you can use lens shift to move the image up or down
by nearly its full height, and left or right by about one-half its width

and on page 25 it lists 96% of screen height as the vertical LS

http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/plhc87u/plhc87uug.pdf

So: 49" X .96 = 47"

So then, the 8350 could (potentially) be placed 22 1/2" above the TOP of the screen and 47" from the center, just as I estimated earlier.

I don't know why some mangle LS so badly. My guess is they- especially reviewers- have set-ups that simply use none (or very little) of it and/or they simply mis-apply the criteria/incorrectly calculate it.

Either way, it doesn't seem to help anyone who actually needs to use/estimate it.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #12 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 10:02 AM
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So in your app, with the PJ 3 inches off the floor and the bottom of the screen 24" off the floor, you will need 45 1/2" of shift to get the center of the image to the center of the screen.

If you're not using a bit of horizontal shift with the 8350 you should be able to pull it off, but it will be damn damn close.

If the screen bottom is just 18" off the floor you should slide in there much easier.

May I ask why the PJ needs to be so fantastically close to the floor? Outside of the placement issues you're running into, it's obviously a locale that much's more conducive to dust (a big enemy to LCD PJ's), meddling hands, and a potential accident.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #13 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. So it does appear that the Epson 8350 has greater lens shift than the PT-AR100U.

We have a coffee table that has a bottom shelf, so I put it on the bottom shelf so that we can still use the coffee table and so that the projector isn't seen. WAF tongue.gif
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post #14 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 10:49 AM
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Yes, seems inescapable to me (that the epson has more lens shift).

^ I understand re the waf. Just out of curiosity would it be possible to invert the PJ and mount it to the bottom side of the coffee table top (assuming it's wood)? You'd have it further off the floor, closer to the screen (to use less LS) and (potentially) have better use of the lower shelf...much less susceptible to movement too.

You'd obviously never see the mounting holes either so long as you didn't pierce the top/utilize shallow screws. And I've actually had fantastic results using gorilla glue to flush mount brackets to (clean, dry) wood with no screws...have lasted for years and the bond is stronger than the wood itself.

Just an idea.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #15 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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That is an option, but these projectors are so heavy. 16-19 lbs. The PD7150 is 17.6 lbs; I can't believe the PT-AR100U is 19 lbs.

Off topic, but these projectors are over a year old; where are their successors?
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 12:51 PM
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^ I think the AR 100 is hitting a good spot for panasonic- especially for the cost. I'll tell you that I'm very happy with it and I can't imagine a better option anywhere near the price that can do a well-lit room and darkened-room movies as well.

The 8350 is a bit different, I suppose. It's longer in the tooth still, but has been a very popular option. An updated version seems in order as you have to now spend a decent penny to get a newer Epson with lens shift (the 5020 at ~$2500).

A 3D-less version of the 3020 with lens shift makes sense to me, but I'd bet Epson thinks it would cannibalize 3020 and 5020 sales.

I'm waiting for a bright (read 2000+ lumen) $1500 3D LCD PJ from either Panny or Epson before the end of the year. smile.gif

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #17 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 12:52 PM
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And BTW: the AR100 is about 19lbs...not that heavy, really. I'm certain it could easily be securely to the bottom of a decent table top.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #18 of 21 Old 02-27-2013, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I measured my setup. The bottom edge of my screen is 21.5" from the floor. I have to put the middle of the PD7150 lens at 11.5" with full vertical lens shift to get it onto the screen. My screen height is 52.47".

That means that my lens is shifting 10"+26.24" (52.47"/2) = 36.24", right? Do I need to calculate any offsets?

I want to lower the projector by 4.5" (lens 7" off the ground), so I need a projector that has 40.74" lens shift (78%)

The PT-AR100U has 65% lens shift, so it can shift 52.47"*.65, or 34.11". Not quite enough.

The Epson 8350 has 96% lens shift, so it can shift 52.47"*.96, or 50.37", which would work.

It seems like my Planar PD7150 has 69% lens shift. Not sure why the manual says 100%; if it was 100%, it should be able to shift 52.47", right?

Does the zoom affect lens shift? For example, if I move the projector forward or backwards?
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post #19 of 21 Old 02-28-2013, 06:08 AM
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Your calculations appear correct to me, from a quick "brain-over".

I'm not aware of any PJ's zoom affecting LS, but perhaps someone knows something I don't.

Vertical and Horizontal LS reduce one another though, meaning if you use any of either, the max of the other will be sacrificed. View the ability to move the lens like an oval, not a rectangle.

Are you using any horizontal shift with the Planar? It (vertical shift) can be greatly affected with a nominal amount of horizontal shift...and vice versa.

Barring the need for significant horizontal shift, it appears the Epson should be able to work for you.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #20 of 21 Old 02-28-2013, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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On the Planar, I played around with horizontal lens shift and it didn't appear to affect the vertical lens shift. I'll have to give it a try again tonight.
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post #21 of 21 Old 02-28-2013, 07:53 AM
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I'd assume it must, seeing the lens housing is curved and must be accounted for. With some models you may not notice it if you don't really need to use both extensively.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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