Tales from the Dark Side: Plasma, what's plasma? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 03-06-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Fr. John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
OK, so I finally bit. I ordered a 3020 and 100" Elite Pull Up.

Uh-hem. Are you kidding me? We hooked it up in a well lit room yesterday afternoon. The PJ is on a small table, the screen is in front of the 54" Panny plasma. Strictly ad hoc seat of the pants set up.......we were all floored. I cannot overstate (for prospective PJ owners) the impact this thing has on watching movies. Even with all the room light, even with a fairly cheap screen, this was stunning. The screen size is a complete game changer. Forget plasma black levels, they don't matter anymore (we're still going to use it for casual TV viewing). Seriously, if you're on the fence, especially compared to a good palsma, don;t wonder anymore. Going to the theater can't match my plasma technically, the theater is much softer, blacks aren't as good, etc...but this was WAY better than the theater and way better than a plasma IMO.

So, obviously dark room viewing was going to be a vast improvement. Yep, floored again. I hooked up my SVS tube sub, which had been sitting idle for several months, and we put on some movies. We're not only sold, we're thinking of returning the 3020 and going up a level. So a few questions if you please.

1. Thinking of either the 5020 or the Panny 8000U. We're likely to remain 2D users here. I'm leaning toward the Epson BUT I can't seem to figure out if it has remote focus, which I think the Panny does. I don't want to have to get up on the ceiling to focus.
2. Are these going to be quite a bit better than the 3020? I've read the reviews, but the cost is considerably more so I'm a bit hesitant.
3. Zooming: I set the 3020 in the room so it was neither tele or wide. Am I correct in assuming that not using the zoom either way is the best choice if possible? I'm wondering how it affects the PQ if I do so? It would be better suited to the back ojf my room (see picture) but I don't want to do that if it will degrade either PQ or light output.
4. The Elite screen I bought will probably go back. I think I'd rather do 120". 100" was nice at 1.78:1 but for wider stuff I'd like a little more. Should I consider gain for this application, especially if I go with the 5020 or 8000U? Gain on this screen is 1.2 I think.

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to mount everything. See the photo below.

5. Can I get away with some kind of wall mounted shelf at the back of the room instead of a ceiling mount? Is 22' just too far?



Fr. John
Screenshots Thread
Panasonic Plasma Break-in FAQ HERE
Fr. John is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 03-06-2013, 07:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,857
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Yes the 3020 is great but better than the theater? You must have lousy theaters where you live. 4K digital on a huge screen with better color depth the 3020 isn't. It's for those encore viewings at home. Don't discount 3D movies, it does a great job there also. 3D movies are the ones I go see the most. The wife likes them also.
Bill is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 03-06-2013, 11:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
Amber Ale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

Forget plasma black levels, they don't matter anymore

Ha, it's true though. After a projector even the big 70" lcds at Costco seem small. Don't forget to factor in the cost of replacement bulbs, usually around $300 each. Led and laser projectors are what I can't wait for

www.avsforum.com/t/1422139/acer-k750-vs-h6500-viewsonic-pro9000-and-panasonic-pt-rz470

Also check out show us your screen shots over in the 3000+ section

http://www.avsforum.com/t/935620/show-us-your-screenshots

Edit: And also if I had a ton of $$$ right now this is the screen I would get, I love the look.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431840/just-received-and-mounted-my-new-dnp-supernova-blade-08-85-screen-pics-and-impressions-inside
Amber Ale is offline  
post #4 of 16 Old 03-07-2013, 04:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
ratpacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 766
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post

Yes the 3020 is great but better than the theater? You must have lousy theaters where you live. 4K digital on a huge screen with better color depth the 3020 isn't. It's for those encore viewings at home. Don't discount 3D movies, it does a great job there also. 3D movies are the ones I go see the most. The wife likes them also.

I'd rather go to the dentist than go to a movie theater. This subject has been beat to death, but with high prices, obnoxious patrons, cell phones going off and all of the other annoyances, I'll stick with BD and my 106" at home. Having control over the environment trumps the "social aspect" everyday of the week and twice on Sunday for me.

XBL GT: deathpallie
ratpacker is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 03-07-2013, 04:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jnabq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Albq. NM, USA
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 39
1. Thinking of either the 5020 or the Panny 8000U. We're likely to remain 2D users here. I'm leaning toward the Epson BUT I can't seem to figure out if it has remote focus, which I think the Panny does. I don't want to have to get up on the ceiling to focus.

The Epson will be manual focus, but if you let it warm up about 30 mins. then set it, your pretty much done. I did miss having motorized focus initially, but if you don't need lens memory, (which is the panny's advantage), then the Epson 5020 should be better overall, also keeping in mind warranty and replacement bulbs. http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/competitors.php Coderguy did a great breakdown on these at http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391476/coderguys-top-projector-picks if you haven't read his post.

2. Are these going to be quite a bit better than the 3020? I've read the reviews, but the cost is considerably more so I'm a bit hesitant.

If you could afford the 5020, then it will be the better image, especially where blacks are concerned, vs the 3020. I'd try to fit the 5020 into my budget.

3. Zooming: I set the 3020 in the room so it was neither tele or wide. Am I correct in assuming that not using the zoom either way is the best choice if possible? I'm wondering how it affects the PQ if I do so? It would be better suited to the back ojf my room (see picture) but I don't want to do that if it will degrade either PQ or light output.

Generally, the farther away, less brightness and ideally placed within the middle of the zoom range would probably be the best, but would you notice the difference? Maybe, depending on the viewing environment. With your thoughts of mounting this pj at 22', consider the need of a little higher gain screen, and try setting it up temporarily in both locations to see which you like better. Using, http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/ and the 5010 as a guide, a 1.3 gain screen might be needed at that distance of 22' to keep up the brightness. Remember as you get more hours on it, the bulb dims and if you want to keep it in ECO mode, (quieter and longer bulb life), the extra gain will be helpful if you decide on mounting it further back.

4. The Elite screen I bought will probably go back. I think I'd rather do 120". 100" was nice at 1.78:1 but for wider stuff I'd like a little more. Should I consider gain for this application, especially if I go with the 5020 or 8000U? Gain on this screen is 1.2 I think.

The larger screen may need more gain at a distance of 22'. Check the calculator to see what brightness numbers would be, depending on where you finally decide to mount it. I think 1.3 looked ok at 22' and 120".

5. Can I get away with some kind of wall mounted shelf at the back of the room instead of a ceiling mount? Is 22' just too far?

You could wall mount it, and 22' isn't to far depending on the viewing environment, with no or very little ambient light, and a bright enough screen to maintain brightness. Just some of my thoughts for you to consider.
jnabq is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 03-07-2013, 04:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jnabq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Albq. NM, USA
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratpacker View Post

I'd rather go to the dentist than go to a movie theater. This subject has been beat to death, but with high prices, obnoxious patrons, cell phones going off and all of the other annoyances, I'll stick with BD and my 106" at home. Having control over the environment trumps the "social aspect" everyday of the week and twice on Sunday for me.

+1
I did have someone over to look at my 6010 in action recently, and after seeing it display 3D, and the darbee effects, I think he was sold on both. I didn't think 3D was all that either, until I watched some content at home, in my environment, with the much brighter image. The last 6 movies I've bought, only 1 was 2D. Once you see it, you might reconsider, as many of us have.
jnabq is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 07-03-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Fr. John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Just thought I'd revive this to say that we sent the 3020 back and just set up the 5020 this last weekend.

Sweet.

Fr. John
Screenshots Thread
Panasonic Plasma Break-in FAQ HERE
Fr. John is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 05:13 AM
Member
 
KTM250's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

OK, so I finally bit. I ordered a 3020 and 100" Elite Pull Up.

Uh-hem. Are you kidding me? We hooked it up in a well lit room yesterday afternoon. The PJ is on a small table, the screen is in front of the 54" Panny plasma. Strictly ad hoc seat of the pants set up.......we were all floored. I cannot overstate (for prospective PJ owners) the impact this thing has on watching movies. Even with all the room light, even with a fairly cheap screen, this was stunning. The screen size is a complete game changer. Forget plasma black levels, they don't matter anymore (we're still going to use it for casual TV viewing). Seriously, if you're on the fence, especially compared to a good palsma, don;t wonder anymore. Going to the theater can't match my plasma technically, the theater is much softer, blacks aren't as good, etc...but this was WAY better than the theater and way better than a plasma IMO.

So, obviously dark room viewing was going to be a vast improvement. Yep, floored again. I hooked up my SVS tube sub, which had been sitting idle for several months, and we put on some movies. We're not only sold, we're thinking of returning the 3020 and going up a level. So a few questions if you please.

1. Thinking of either the 5020 or the Panny 8000U. We're likely to remain 2D users here. I'm leaning toward the Epson BUT I can't seem to figure out if it has remote focus, which I think the Panny does. I don't want to have to get up on the ceiling to focus.
2. Are these going to be quite a bit better than the 3020? I've read the reviews, but the cost is considerably more so I'm a bit hesitant.
3. Zooming: I set the 3020 in the room so it was neither tele or wide. Am I correct in assuming that not using the zoom either way is the best choice if possible? I'm wondering how it affects the PQ if I do so? It would be better suited to the back ojf my room (see picture) but I don't want to do that if it will degrade either PQ or light output.
4. The Elite screen I bought will probably go back. I think I'd rather do 120". 100" was nice at 1.78:1 but for wider stuff I'd like a little more. Should I consider gain for this application, especially if I go with the 5020 or 8000U? Gain on this screen is 1.2 I think.

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to mount everything. See the photo below.

5. Can I get away with some kind of wall mounted shelf at the back of the room instead of a ceiling mount? Is 22' just too far?


You will get over it. I was the same way when i first fired my 5020 up, but then you start to really look at the picture notice how unsharpe it is on anything that is not 1080P. Plasma does a much better job on that type of material.
KTM250 is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 05:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
nickoakdl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM250 View Post

You will get over it. I was the same way when i first fired my 5020 up, but then you start to really look at the picture notice how unsharpe it is on anything that is not 1080P. Plasma does a much better job on that type of material.

Wouldn't a single-chip DLP produce a very sharp image?
nickoakdl is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 06:39 AM
Member
 
KTM250's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Wouldn't a single-chip DLP produce a very sharp image?
I don't know. This is my first and probably last projector. I have never seen a single chip dlp.
KTM250 is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Fr. John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM250 View Post

You will get over it. I was the same way when i first fired my 5020 up, but then you start to really look at the picture notice how unsharpe it is on anything that is not 1080P. Plasma does a much better job on that type of material.


Not a chance. We have 4 plasmas, 42"-54". All are great. Strict PQ doesn't outweigh size and presence. I'd also argue that that PQ isn't all about absolute black or sharpness, film like quality, which the plasma can't match, has a lot of value. Furthermore, 99% of my viewing will be done on 1080. I reserve the lower quality stuff for the plasma.

Fr. John
Screenshots Thread
Panasonic Plasma Break-in FAQ HERE
Fr. John is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 08:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
nickoakdl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM250 View Post

I don't know. This is my first and probably last projector. I have never seen a single chip dlp.

It was a bit of a rhetorical question. They are considered to be significantly sharper than LCD units. I'd only recommend LCD projectors if you absolutely need the placement flexibility it provides.
nickoakdl is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 08:54 AM
Member
 
KTM250's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

Not a chance. We have 4 plasmas, 42"-54". All are great. Strict PQ doesn't outweigh size and presence. I'd also argue that that PQ isn't all about absolute black or sharpness, film like quality, which the plasma can't match, has a lot of value. Furthermore, 99% of my viewing will be done on 1080. I reserve the lower quality stuff for the plasma.

Sounds like you agree with me. Only watching 1080P on the projector and the rest on the plasma. IMO you can have all the size and presence you want but if the sharpness is not there then it is less then film like. So there are trade off's on both types. I could not get over the lack of sharpeness, camera panning blurr and on my projector the light flicker of the auto iris (still don't understand the great reviews this projector got). So I went out and bought another plasma to watch most things on. Enjoy the projector, they are not for me, but it is to late now and Im out 2500.
KTM250 is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 09:06 AM
Member
 
KTM250's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

It was a bit of a rhetorical question. They are considered to be significantly sharper than LCD units. I'd only recommend LCD projectors if you absolutely need the placement flexibility it provides.
Too bad I didn't know this before. I went by all the reviews and everyone making this projector out like it was the the best thing in it's price range and more. None of the problems I see are mentioned and this is the second one that I have had, both with the same problems. The first one went back for a real bad light flicker. I laugh at all the people with the same problem and there fix is to just turn off the auto iris. Makes me wonder about all these reviews. Again too late now so I will just have to live with it or have epson send me another one. Have a nice day.
KTM250 is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 11:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 225 Post(s)
Liked: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

Not a chance. We have 4 plasmas, 42"-54". All are great. Strict PQ doesn't outweigh size and presence. I'd also argue that that PQ isn't all about absolute black or sharpness, film like quality, which the plasma can't match, has a lot of value. Furthermore, 99% of my viewing will be done on 1080. I reserve the lower quality stuff for the plasma.

I tend to agree with this. I recently went an upgrade binge

bought a new 64" Samsung f8500 plasma. after seeing it's picture quality I pretty quickly came to the realization I was never going to use my old 720p Epson projector again. there was literally no situation where I enjoyed it more.

upgraded to a jvc x35 and I feel I've got basically identical quality to the plasma now, but twice the size. now I feel like it's almost a waste having the f8500 in the same room because the only stuff I use it for is watching cable tv when i'm not really paying attention to it, and surfing the net. I might as well be doing that on the cheapest Chinese knock-off lcd.

there are subtle difference to the picture between the projector and plasma, but in my opinion I prefer the projector. I still really hate a 'digital' looking image. and the plasma definitely looks more digital than the projector. with the projector I don't feel like i'm looking at a group of pixels that represents an image. I just feel like i'm looking at that image.

as for watching non-hd stuff. my receiver has upconversion, and with that on I can't say I notice any difference between the quality on the two displays. if you're projector/tv is having difficulty it's not due to the display technology, it's due to the electronics that process the signal.

I kind of hate to say it, because I love plasmas over anything lcd, but i'm guessing I probably won't buy another plasma. my plan for the future is to find a half decent led/laser/hybrid projector and run a dual projector setup instead of a projector/plasma set up. that way I can use a fixed screen and have a much cleaner looking install. I can use the bulbless projector for the daily duties and medial tasks, and continue to use the best quality I can afford projector for critical viewing. I'll move the plasma into the living room or something.
Fr. John likes this.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 07-05-2013, 11:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,174
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 225 Post(s)
Liked: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM250 View Post

Too bad I didn't know this before. I went by all the reviews and everyone making this projector out like it was the the best thing in it's price range and more. None of the problems I see are mentioned and this is the second one that I have had, both with the same problems. The first one went back for a real bad light flicker. I laugh at all the people with the same problem and there fix is to just turn off the auto iris. Makes me wonder about all these reviews. Again too late now so I will just have to live with it or have epson send me another one. Have a nice day.

my old Epson projector had the auto iris. it was pretty bad quality and I didn't think it even really helped with it on, so I did turn it off. but this time around I knew what I pita an auto iris is, that was the main push to get me into the jvc projector that does not use an auto iris at all. I know a lot of ppl still think putting the auto iris on the jvc's or any projector makes it better, but honestly I wouldn't buy another projector with an auto iris unless I viewed it in person first. for me, they are just plain terrible.
not a fault of 'projectors' though. that's like seeing one cheap lcd and saying lcd's can't produce black so i'll never buy one, or seeing one cheap plasma with a logo burned into the corner and saying that's why you'll never buy a plasma. no matter what the display technology, there is a HUGE difference between entry, mid, and high end models.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Tags
Epson V11h501020 Powerlite Home Cinema 3020 2d And 3d Home Theater Projector , Epson 5020ub Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector , Panasonic Ptae8000u Hd Projector , Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema 6010 Projector
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off