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post #31 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 05:50 AM
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I always say its best to have both. Start with a good flat panel first, add a PJ and motorized drop down screen later for the WoW factor.

 

Projectors are not meant to be turned off/on several times a day like a TV. Each bulb strike (off/on cycle) = about 3 hours running time,

So if you turn it off/on 4 times in a single day you may as well let it run 12 hours straight.

 

Use a TV for daily viewing, cable TV weekly sit-coms, news, weather etc...

Save the PJ for Movie nights, or Concerts, Major Sporting events and you're bulb with last much longer.

 

Prices on replacement lamps can run $250-$450 (depending on model)

...and some are only good for 2000 hours (despite manufacturers claims of up to 4K)

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post #32 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post


Use a TV for daily viewing, cable TV weekly sit-coms, news, weather etc...
Save the PJ for Movie nights, or Concerts, Major Sporting events and you're bulb with last much longer.

Prices on replacement lamps can run $250-$450 (depending on model)
...and some are only good for 2000 hours (despite manufacturers claims of up to 4K)

On the other hand, you can buy 5-10 bulbs at $300 for the price of a tiny 60" tv. I don't see why its unreasonable to use the projector for a TV too based on bulb-replacement costs. People just have to realize that the bulbs are part of the cost, just like tires are part of the cost of a car. (and 3 hours a day is only 1000 hrs a year.... so, a bulb every 2 yrs, so it would take 10-20yrs of "bulb-replacement" costs to come out more expensive than the $1500 TV at 3hr/day example. I'm neglecting average hours failure or upgrade times for the TV and projector here.) I'm not suggesting everyone should use only a projector and not a TV as well, or that it's always a better option OR that it provides the same flexibility with room lighting/etc. It just seems silly to say that it is more cost-effective to buy an additional TV and sparingly use the projector.

If you look at it the other way and are deciding the cost and never needing to buy another bulb... Then you're paying a LOT for those few hours you use for movies. If you paid $2000 for the projector and end up watching 1 movie a week, that's under 100hrs a year. If you kept it only for 3 years, you would be paying over $10 PER hour, or ~$15+ PER movie to use it. If you use it for TV/Movies/Monitor/etc, even at 2000hrs/bulb, it comes to $1/hr if its a $2k projector and you only use it for 2000 hrs total and trash it. The more you use it, the cheaper it is to use. At 4000hrs, you're at $0.58/hr. If its a $2k projector and you use it for 8000hrs total (3 addtl. bulbs -- in this case I'm not addressing epsons which give free bulbs for 2 yrs which might start with a lower worst-case baseline cost for first 2yr -- I also have no data as to "average lifetime hours" a projector lasts or that a TV lasts), you're spending $2900 for 8000hrs, which is only $0.36/hr.
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post #33 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 06:09 PM
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I have both, and usage is split about 50/50. (Epson 1080UB, Pioneer Kuro)

I'm on my 3rd lamp ( about 7000 hours total) on my 4.5 y/o 1080UB
And will likely be due for an upgrade before I buy another lamp.
Unlike many owners, I resisted the last 6 or 7 new and improved Epson UB's ( miraculously)
But cant put it off much longer with 4K lurking around the next corner.

If i did'nt have a TV, not sure I'd be happy spending $1800 on lamps,
Or that my old Epson would have survived 14000 hours.

A new JVC was almost in my hands last year, but I found other toys to waste my money on.
I doubt anyone would go through 10 lamps before their machine died, or became obsolete.

I suppose replacing my Kuro would be a greater concern, imho its still the king of flat panels
...and you cant get a new one, even Panasonic is pulling out of plasma production.
I hate LCD tv's, so I'm glad I grabbed a pair of Pio's while they were still available.
Think the Kuro's have a 60k hour lifespan.

Anyway, I guess I Dont really have a point, other than everyones situation is different.
I just cant imagine having no tv in a house and only 1 projector.
I bet most homes with a dedicated theater with a projector have at least two tv's somewhere else in the home.

Having a TV as your only display has positive and negative implications
Having a PJ as your only display has positive and negative implications
Having Both eliminates the negatives and removes all doubt.

Even if it costs twice as much, split the hours evenly should allow both to last twice as long.
....only difference is the TV doesn't need replacement lamps every year.

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post #34 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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The dual display is what I'm going to work toward.

Definitely gonna grab a panny plasma while i still can.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition mediocre minds..." A. Einstein
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post #35 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post

I have both, and usage is split about 50/50. (Epson 1080UB, Pioneer Kuro)

I'm on my 3rd lamp ( about 7000 hours total) on my 4.5 y/o 1080UB

Wow, that's a lot of hours. 14000 hours (at 50/50) over 4.5 years is over 8.5hrs a day. You do have a good point, usage can vary greatly. I thought I was bad at 4 or 5hr/day (only when I'm there though, no family usage when not there...) on 2 projectors which is all I use for TV/PC/Movies. I had assumed that even I'm on the heavier-than-average usage... I'm thinking I may have made a mistake with that assumption. With lighter usage cases, the bulb replacement costs seem fairly negligible, but with 8+ hrs/day that's no longer the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post

I doubt anyone would go through 10 lamps before their machine died, or became obsolete.
I should have expressed my thoughts more clearly. That was exactly my point, I am in agreement with you. I said it would take a good 5-10 before the bulbs would cost more than the TV, and that the projector and tv would be obsolete by that point. Again I was also not disagreeing that the TV would provide more versatility with room lighting.
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post #36 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 07:34 PM
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I love my toys lol,

My Kuro was $2k, the Epson just a bit more after rebates and freebies,
Motorized 120" drop down screen was $250 shipped...
Whats that ? <$100 a month$...less than a couple trips to the movie theater.

Thats pocket change compared to what I've spent on bigger toys.

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...When a Kuro plasma still isnt enough, make your movie Experience Larger than Life with a Projector!
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post #37 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 07:56 PM
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Well I've purchased 3 projectors in 3 1/2 years... seems like an additiction. price keeps going up for the next one I buy though ^.^
($300 for display Sanyo PLV1080HD in Nov 2009, $1000 for new Epson 8100 around sept 2010, $1200 for new 3010 in late 2011... looking at the 5020 price-ranged models to upgrade one to either later this year or next year)

Guess that's about 100 a month as well for me so far. Yes, compared to other things it's really very cheap. smile.gif
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post #38 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 08:11 PM
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Yah it can get addicting, but I've pretty much settled with the JVC's, I think they are overall the best projectors under $3000 except for 3D and gaming lag. Well at least if you get lucky on convergence like I did.

I mean I know some don't believe me, but a well-converged JVC really does beat most of these DLP's at sharpness (except for the 0.95"). The Benq w7000 is sharper maybe, but it almost looks more artificial and the text isn't as easy on the eyes, the Benq has slight ringing even at 0 (though at 0 it's almost invisible), but at 1 it's visible.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #39 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 09:04 PM
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The Benq's are fabulously sharp for the price, I think I just prefer my JVC ON TEXT ONLY due to a higher pixel fill and smoother look to text. That said, the Benq looks sharper on video sometimes, depending on what it is.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #40 of 53 Old 05-02-2013, 12:50 PM
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I've been reading a few other threads about projectors vs lcds and thought I'd add my question here. I'm stuck trying to decide between buying a Sharp 70" LCD ($2000) or fixing my Epson 8100 projector.

My projector is on a wall that I painted white with regular Behr brand paint. I have the screen at a massive 150" or so. It's fun to watch. When my projector or bulb died, I started using my 55" LG LCD for movies and my wife and I are amazed how great the picture quality (PQ) is. The projector looked good until we saw the LCD.

I decided that I wanted a 70" sharp and would just sit closer, but I'm having second thoughts. From what I read, with a dark room, screen, and decent projector, the PQ should be comparable to the LCD. Correct? So I'm thinking I should buy a screen (maybe no larger than (120") and fix the Epson. Do you think the screen and smaller screen size will rival the LCD for PQ, brightness, etc? This is mostly dedicated for movie use.

What would you do? Thanks.
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post #41 of 53 Old 05-02-2013, 01:30 PM
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IMHO,

 

to REALLY get a high quality image from a projector you need to start with a projector with higher contrast  ratio and deeper black levels.

and you need a room that's treated properly to maximize the projectors performance capabilities. (dark walls, dark ceiling and dark floors and 100% light control.)

a high power screen will give the projected image additional pop too, if you dont mind sacrificing a bit of your black level performance.

 

Keep in mind, a "Dark" room is not really dark just because you turn the lights off,

projected images will often reflect light off all reflective lighter surfaces and wash out the image on screen, reducing the contrast.

 

You can put a $5k JVC in an untreated living room without 100% light control

....but with white walls and ceiling close to the screen it would look no better than a 5 year old $1k projector.
 

 

Good reading (and picture examples) on room treatment here....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461420/does-it-really-make-a-difference-painting-your-movie-living-room-dark-or-even-black


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...When a Kuro plasma still isnt enough, make your movie Experience Larger than Life with a Projector!
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post #42 of 53 Old 05-03-2013, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahkim View Post

I've been reading a few other threads about projectors vs lcds and thought I'd add my question here. I'm stuck trying to decide between buying a Sharp 70" LCD ($2000) or fixing my Epson 8100 projector.

My projector is on a wall that I painted white with regular Behr brand paint. I have the screen at a massive 150" or so. It's fun to watch. When my projector or bulb died, I started using my 55" LG LCD for movies and my wife and I are amazed how great the picture quality (PQ) is. The projector looked good until we saw the LCD.

I decided that I wanted a 70" sharp and would just sit closer, but I'm having second thoughts. From what I read, with a dark room, screen, and decent projector, the PQ should be comparable to the LCD. Correct? So I'm thinking I should buy a screen (maybe no larger than (120") and fix the Epson. Do you think the screen and smaller screen size will rival the LCD for PQ, brightness, etc? This is mostly dedicated for movie use.

What would you do? Thanks.

I don't think I'd fix the pj, unless it could be done for around $200 dollars. Is it just the bulb? If you can get a new bulb for under $300, it might be worth keeping till you can save the money to buy a higher end pj in the $2500-$3500 range, that can get you closer to the image you want/see in the TV. Then consider the screen and/or paint. There are advantages to a normal tv, but I'd bet you'll miss the 150" image.
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post #43 of 53 Old 05-03-2013, 04:16 PM
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The projector is not going to give you as nice a picture as the LCD TV no matter what you do. The trade off is the size. The darker the room the better. The projector uses a white 6500k - 9000K based light as a source. Think of it as passive. The LCD and Plasma uses active pixels. There is NOTHING like the Blacks and deep colors of a Plasma. The three chip LED RGB colored panels in the newer high end LED projectors will give you better colors but the end image won't be as bright. The trouble is that lamp based projectors block light in order to get colors.. Many of us use LCD or Plasma's during the day and projectors with drop down screens at night. This way you are not using up lamp time until you need it and you get more out of the projector.

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post #44 of 53 Old 05-05-2013, 09:32 PM
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Bohanna, jnabq, PioManiac - thanks for the replies.

The good news for me is that the projector needs a new bulb. For some reason, the bulb error light didn't come on at first, but now it does. I was using that as an excuse to buy the LCD but I'm sure I won't be happy with 70". Based on your replies, it's going to be near impossible to get the same PQ as the LCD. I'd have to get a screen, install some additional room darkening materials, buy a better projector, etc...

Is there currently a clear choice for a $2500 projector?
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post #45 of 53 Old 05-06-2013, 06:00 AM
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You can sometimes find B stock jvc's from AVS here, around that price? Give them a call. Just consider lamp life might be a little lower than some others. A pretty good deal on the Epson refurb 5010, 2 yr warranty. http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=Home-Cinema-5010-R
It's last years model, but the differences aren't that much, mainly the 3d dynamic iris and the different glasses they use. Check Coder's top picks for recommendations in that price range to see the strength and/or weakness's of the ones listed. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1391476
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post #46 of 53 Old 05-06-2013, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahkim View Post

Bohanna, jnabq, PioManiac - thanks for the replies.

The good news for me is that the projector needs a new bulb. For some reason, the bulb error light didn't come on at first, but now it does. I was using that as an excuse to buy the LCD but I'm sure I won't be happy with 70". Based on your replies, it's going to be near impossible to get the same PQ as the LCD. I'd have to get a screen, install some additional room darkening materials, buy a better projector, etc...

Is there currently a clear choice for a $2500 projector?

 

Two years ago the JVC HD250 was top dog for that price, if you didn't need 3D,

Unfortunately it was discontinued and the push for 3D meant you had to pay substantially more for an entry level 3D machine

...even if you didn't need or want 3D.

 

Same goes for the new Epsons, you cant get a dedicated 2D machine in the UB (Ultra-Black) model line anymore

...so I'm hanging on to my 5 year old Epson1080UB until it croaks, on my 3rd lamp now and just over 8000 hours on it.

 

It was just over $2k after rebates and freebies in 08'

 

Just to give you an idea of PQ, here's some comparison pic's compared to my 50" Pioneer Kuro Plasma in my basement Bat-Cave

Dark Walls and Ceiling are Key elements, I don't even have any painted drywall surfaces, its all velvet and fabric...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post


My 50" Kuro


120" screen / Epson PJ


50" Kuro


I leave the blue light in the lower left corner of the Kuro shots when I crop them so it's easier to tell the two apart.

120" PJ


...the PJ shots are even more impressive when you consider they are 9'-0" wide vs the Kuro screen at about 40" wide

The 50" plasma from 12' away doesn't seem to have as much impact when I don't crop the pic's to the same size.


(use the blue light in the lower right corner from my PS3 as a reference point)

the 120" powered drop down screen, shot from the same camera position without cropping the image.


I did a Pio vs PJ comparison with an SD DVD too, from Star Wars, General Grievous,
both up-scaled from 480i on my PS3 to 1080p

Pio at 50"


PJ

 

Kuro at 50"

 

Epson at 120"

 

 

Quote:Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post





Casino Royale 50" plasma vs 120" screen and pj combo (for about the same price)










sorry if the focus is off a bit (hand held camera, no tripod)




oops, forgot to turn the camera flash off


Even with some ambient light the picture is still pretty good now that my walls are darker


but once the lights are out it looks like a giant plasma screen


and last but certainly not least, the view from my center seat, trying to holding my camera steady while fully reclined









 

With this kind of "POP" off the screen, I have no desire for 3D and refuse to pay extra for it.

 

 

004_zps2431aa6d.jpg

 

prometheus2_zps86e90bc8.jpg

 

prometheus3_zpsc15b790e.jpg

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post #47 of 53 Old 05-28-2013, 10:27 PM
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Thanks for posting the screen shots. Looks amazing. I decided to go with a projector and screen. Considering the JVC RS45 or Epson 5020.
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post #48 of 53 Old 05-29-2013, 06:44 AM
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PioManiac,

Nice comparison shots. The PJ looks strong and appears to have great convergence.
Could you please let me know if that is a brilliant white (gray?) screen and what "gain" it has? (sorry if I missed it in an earlier post)
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post #49 of 53 Old 11-08-2013, 01:38 PM
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Well I was hoping that Plasma prices would come down enough that I could pick up a half-decent one for <£500 but it looks like that's not going to happen. Apart from LG, which I wouldn't touch, the only things available in the UK these days seem to be a 720p Panasonic TXP50X60B for about £400 for a 50" and I don't really feel like spending that money for 720p.

I'm kinda hoping with Plasmas going out of production, projectors might become a bit more popular and that will drive the prices down. I want a LED projector so I don't have to worry about the cost of bulbs but I'll wait until a) they produce a budget model with enough lumens to not need a blacked-out room, b) put them in normal sized casings, so that they can use large and quiet fans, not small and noisy ones, c) maybe improve the issues with text sharpness, although I'm not going to be using it as a PC monitor as such, I do want to be able to clearly read text in RPG games.

I really like the idea of not having a TV on the wall, where it's vulnerable to damage and no matter how thin they are, having one one the wall with all it's leads, etc still encroaches on the room somewhat, so without it the room feels slightly more open and spacious.

I might look out for a cheap s/h Plasma in the meantime but without any warranty, I'm not going to drop more than about £100 on something that might pack up in a week or have problems that only become apparent once I get it installed.
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post #50 of 53 Old 11-08-2013, 02:09 PM
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720P on a 50" set isn't bad at all depending on where you sit. Most people sit no where near where they can see much of a benefit of a 1080P set. They look better/sharper from a few feet away, but move back to the probably 12-14' that most people seem to want to sit from a TV and you're in 720P land all day with what your eyes can resolve.

Now go up to a 100+" screen and yes, 1080P really makes a difference (I think I can hear my poor little 720P LED projector sobbing in the media room right now after hearing me say that...).
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post #51 of 53 Old 11-08-2013, 02:19 PM
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Sure but I'd be viewing from about 7.5-8' away so it's possibly going to be quite a noticeable difference playing games in 1080p instead of 720p.

Certainly I'd want to get a 1080p projector for those screen sizes. That should have be the second item on my wishlist actually, as I think the budget LEDs are all 720p at the moment.
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post #52 of 53 Old 06-24-2014, 06:20 PM
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I know this is old and my comment will not matter, but I have a JVC X500 Projector and I would put it up against any plasma. Now it was not cheap but the image is magnificent. IMO if you can afford it, a JVC projector is the way to go. Super sharp image with fantastic black level and contrast. I could never go back to a tv.

James Reid:D
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post #53 of 53 Old 07-08-2014, 07:33 PM
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HI
The forum members that have experience with both plasma tv setup and projector setup make great candidates for answering the question in the following post:

Eye Strain, Fatigue, CVS, FULLHD Home Cinema Projector, Plasmas,

If possible please check the link and post a reply. Thanks.

Thanks for the cool photos in this thread. :=)

Last edited by noiselisten; 07-08-2014 at 07:37 PM.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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