Theater/bar/game room design considerations - ambient light and projector specs - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 Old 04-30-2013, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JD NC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 40
I'm designing a multi-purpose room as part of an upcoming remodel, and am trying to figure out a realistic budget for what I want to do.

The main space is approximately 420 sf (20'x21) and my current design will have a 106-144" 2.40:1 screen centered on a 16' portion of the 20' wall (the remaining 4' is an entryway that opens up into the main room). The main seating position will be about 8.5' back and the bar and game table seating will be on a riser behind the main couch, with the viewing positions around 13-18' from the screen.

The room is light controlled, so theater mode won't be a problem, but I'm trying to figure out the most cost effective way to get a good HDTV picture when the house lights are up. I'm educating myself on lumens and foot lamberts, and my best guess is that I need a 3500 lumen projector to get a bright enough picture. Can I cut that lumen number requirement with a higher gain screen? What other specs besides light output will help make a front projector look good with the lights 2/3-3/4 of the way up?

The other big question is whether what I want to do is realistic. Am I better off getting an 84" LCD?

Thanks in advance

JD NC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 Old 04-30-2013, 08:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 139
You are possibly better off going with an 84" LCD, depends what your primary use is (daytime with ambient light vs movies at night). If it is daytime viewing, go with the LCD, forget the projector.

That said, it depends on how much light when the lights are turned on, where they are pointing (at the screen or away), and how picky you are. You don't need 3500 lumens for a "watchable" image with some light, but the dark scenes in any scene on a projector when the lights are on will be bad. Don't expect miracles with a projector in ambient light. The image will look ok for Sports or bright scenes, but in any darker scenes the image will completely wash out with light.

You can look into the Black Diamond screens, pricey but they are best suited for this application. A lower-cost screen is a 2.4 gain Da-LITE HP screen. better than no-gain but not as good for ambient light as the BD screens.

I would say with either of those screens, a projector like the new Benq w1500 coming out shortly will work fine. You could also look into the Epson 5020. I'd probably do the Epson in this situation, it has a torch mode where you can get 1500 lumens, and with gain that is enough for your requirement (well maybe, depends).


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #3 of 7 Old 04-30-2013, 08:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Optoma th1060p or Benq sh910 if you just want the brightest projectors for the dollar, but I'd probably go with a TV instead if you are fighting lighting that hard-core.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #4 of 7 Old 04-30-2013, 09:11 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Awww...Coder,

The OP has some good options.

The Optoma and BenQ you suggested above are certainly beamers....and combined with a dark Gray High Contrast surface, they will absolutely get'ter dun. But not easily due to important & missing features.

Now if he wants a dedicated 2.40:1 screen he'll be best served at present using a Panny 8000 placed at 12' 3" to achieve a 47" x 112" (122" diagonal) screen. That's about as big as both his seating distance and available Lumen output can provide with that PJ...but seeing that it has lens memory, it's a good choice to make.

Otherwise, if JD NC,] doesn't mind making Zoom and Shift adjustments, the BenQ SP890 is the best choice of all. H&V Lens shift. 50K:1 Contrast. DLP. 122" diagonal 2.40:1 @ 16' throw and 77 foot lamberts to wash over a dark Gray high contrast screen.

For this and similar situations, it's the absolute Bomb, and is probably going to have me switching to DLP PJs for a great many of my installations.

That said....Screen-wise...he needs to at least consider a Ambient Light effective DIY Screen like these and realize about a $3K savings.

(...the Screen shown just below was a Silver Fire re-coated 106" diagonal Tab Tensioned Electric...hit with a el' cheapo 3K Lumen Viewsonic PJD 6683ws Short Throw )






Or this 110" diagonal "Zero Edge" DIY Screen .......a Panny 8000 doin' the honors. cool.gif



...and as found at this location" http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361269/110-sf-v2-1-3-0-floating-sintra-screen-w-backlighting-videos-too#post_21043092

84" LCD? Talk about "Kissin' yer Sister!

JD NC,

Come on over to DIY Screens. http://www.avsforum.com/f/110/diy-screen-section

We got'cher back....and there are enough combinations available...PJ to Screen match-ups...to get you exactly where you want to be.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #5 of 7 Old 04-30-2013, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JD NC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Thanks for the feedback guys. The lighting will still be very tightly controlled - there's no natural light coming in from outside, so I will be still be able to watch movies in the dark. I just see myself using the room much more as a multipurpose room, with sports on when I have company, and kids movies on when my kids have friends over, so the house lights will be up a lot of the time. Maybe not 100%, but probably 66-75% when there's a game on. The good news is that the black levels and contrast don't need to be pristine for those uses, but it does need to be at least good enough to show HD sports and impress my friends. smile.gif

The size and aspect ratio are not set in stone - I need to get in there with a screen mock up and test out different sizes, and there's a good chance it may be smaller, but I wanted to play it safe on specs so I get a capable projector.

Good to know I have a lot of options. Once I get the project underway, I'll start a thread on the theater builder subforum. Thanks again

JD NC is offline  
post #6 of 7 Old 04-30-2013, 01:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 710
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Whoah, nice setups there guys. Really.

What's the actual contrast ratio of that 50k : 1 projector? The blacks look a decent amount better than my w1070. I couldn't really care less about having it work during the day with the windows open though.

That DIY borderless screen looks pretty cool. Wonder if I could make an AT, curved screen with a 4K fabric in the same fashion. Although, having black borders increases the apparent contrast, doesn't it? So while cool / innovative, it's probably not performance oriented (especially with the glow of the backlights right around it).
RLBURNSIDE is offline  
post #7 of 7 Old 04-30-2013, 03:35 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Whoah, nice setups there guys. Really.

What's the actual contrast ratio of that 50k : 1 projector?

It's a really new Model, and I can't find a official Review / Test article with actual "native" specs. But being a DLP, and with that in mind, I'm sure the contrast is better than any corresponding levels in a LCD PJ with anything remotely close to as much Lumen.

.......and I'm a long time LCD = Lens Shift Advocate....and that's what I'm sayin' eek.gif
Quote:
The blacks look a decent amount better than my w1070. I couldn't really care less about having it work during the day with the windows open though.

That DIY borderless screen looks pretty cool. Wonder if I could make an AT, curved screen with a 4K fabric in the same fashion. Although, having black borders increases the apparent contrast, doesn't it? So while cool / innovative, it's probably not performance oriented (especially with the glow of the backlights right around it).


Actually, when the Back Glow is muted and much lower, the opposite is true.

Just as a Black Surround will provide a reference Black deeper than what the video content has, and trick the eye/brain into perceiving blacks on screen as being "blacker".....a "Indirect" light source, one that cannot strike the screen surface in any way, and that is "Less than" the average illumination on screen, will also help give a seeming improvement in Contrast.

Showing those images of "Cranked Up Back Lighting" is a wonderfully cool effect, but the only time it would be used like that would be during Sports content, which usually means the room's lighting is up anyway. In the dark...or when viewing really dark on-screen content, common sense would call for some muting.

If one was to construct a Channel-Like Trim Surround, one that shielded the rear of the AT Screen assembly from the light produced, and directed such at a right angle only from the edge of the screen, then I'd say it could be done. But that's the DIY'er in me talkin' and any challenge is always deemed worthy of pursuit if the end results are "unheard of" . biggrin.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off