What the biggest upgrade I can get from an Optoma HD20 for under $3k? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 04:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Like the title says, I want to upgrade my Optoma, specifically I am looking for something with better black levels and hopefully a brighter picture, but without losing the nice colors of the Optoma. Can a really substantial upgrade be done under $3k? I can't justify this if it is at all a slight improvement, it really has to be a big improvement. I don't really need 3d but it would be nice to have.
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post #2 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 06:01 AM
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Look at the woot deal up in the deals thread sharp z30k Mine will arrive today so will be posting impression over the next few days before and after calibration.. I understand the gamut is off a bit on the Z 30K and the CMS does not work. So may not be what you are looking for but the amount of other options 2:1 lens with power zoom/focus/V/H shift and memory, turn key 3D with emitter and 3D glasses, 3 year warranty for USA all for $1800.. I hope it is as good as it seems.. will let you know shortly!
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post #3 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking forward to your impressions. What other projectors have you owned?
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post #4 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 07:07 AM
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Mitsubishi hc5 or JVC RS-46, as far as best upgrade for 2D viewing. 3D is another issue, the Sharp is going to win for 3D, but for 2D these projectors are going to be more pleasing for pure movie watching.


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post #5 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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How do these projectors compare to each other as far as black levels and brightness go? Also how do they compare to the HD20 you think?
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post #6 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

How do these projectors compare to each other as far as black levels and brightness go? Also how do they compare to the HD20 you think?

well sub $1000 vs $4999 msrp
Check out this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391476/coderguys-top-projector-picks/0_100
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post #7 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

well sub $1000 vs $4999 msrp
Check out this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391476/coderguys-top-projector-picks/0_100

That is a very good post, I don't know how I missed it, thanks for the link!
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post #8 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 11:32 AM
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The big Brown Santa slay showed up at 12:30 with the Z30K, setup even though not completely dark in the living room flipping channels. I have a Dalite HP screen and with iris 1 open in movie 1 mode it is looking very nice and bright with some light in the room. Not a light cannon for sure and I have made no adjustments yet, but I think I am a Happy camper! I suppose any new 1080p projector would have the same results after watching a 2005 720p for years.. Anyway, out of box this looks nice with FIOs TV.
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post #9 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

How do these projectors compare to each other as far as black levels and brightness go? Also how do they compare to the HD20 you think?

The JVC is going to be a day/night difference with black levels and over all contrast, there is no comparison.

you have to post more info about the viewing conditions. screen size, light control in the room, etc. This will help with making an upgrade recommendation.
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post #10 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Screen size is 125", distance from viewing position is about 12', distance from projector is about 15'. Screen is a DIY Wilsonart designer white laminate. Screen Room is pretty tightly light controlled, not much ambient light.

The most ambient light is leakage from the Optoma projector itself. Which bring me to another point, I am hoping for a projector with not as much light leakage as well.
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post #11 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Screen size is 125", distance from viewing position is about 12', distance from projector is about 15'. Screen is a DIY Wilsonart designer white laminate. Screen Room is pretty tightly light controlled, not much ambient light.

The most ambient light is leakage from the Optoma projector itself. Which bring me to another point, I am hoping for a projector with not as much light leakage as well.

I am going to say the Z30K is off your plate.
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post #12 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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hmm, ok.
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post #13 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

hmm, ok.
Sorry should have added more detail.. Screen size it going to be borderline to large without it being a high gain screen with the amount of light this unit will put out. Also it will want to be shelf mounted vs top or above screen as there is limited lens shift.
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post #14 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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The projector is mounted on my ceiling, so it will be slightly above the screen.
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post #15 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 01:55 PM
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How many hours do you put on the projector's lamp per year?
If putting a small amount of hours, the JVC should be ok on that screen size.

I might email Mike@avscience.com and see if he has any B-STOCK JVC RS-45's left, this is the brightest JVC made lately in the under $3000 class. If he has B-stocks left, and since you'll be saving money, I might buy an extra spare lamp as well. That should help the screen size, if you feel it getting too dim, just swap the lamp. You could also get you a cheaper 2nd projector to conserve lamps on the JVC, that is what many of us did.

Art @ ProjectorReviews.com measured the RS-45 (x30) - 892 lumens, which is just about 200 lumens brighter in best mode over the RS-46 (x35) - 702 lumens. Whether or not you want to risk having less reliable lamps on last year's JVC's is up to you (though Mike does say the 003 lamps don't appear to have any problems). I hope that is the case, but I'm not 100% sure either way.

Though I forget how much dimmer Zombie measured the RS-46 compared to the RS-45, zombie?
150 lumens on the RS-46 less than the RS-45 maybe? It is in his thread and I will go look later anyways because I have to.


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post #16 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I put maybe 300 to 400 hours a year on the lamp. In the regular mode, not in an extra brightness mode.

The HD20 has a measured lumens of 996. Do you think its fair to say that it will actually be brighter than the JVC projectors? Or is the lumens dependent on the age of the bulb and other factors like that? Sorry for my ignorance, I don't know a whole lot about projectors.

Say I bought a JVC RS-45, what kind of change could I expect in the picture overall? Better black levels, maybe a sharper image? But maybe not a brighter image?
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post #17 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 03:00 PM
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I saw close to 900 lumens @ D65 on the RS46 with a brand new lamp. 16 feet from the 142".

The black level difference on the JVC is in another league compared to the optoma.
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post #18 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I saw close to 900 lumens @ D65 on the RS46 with a brand new lamp. 16 feet from the 142".

The black level difference on the JVC is in another league compared to the optoma.

Ahh, I guess maybe Art measured a bad lamp sample. Interesting, a lot of people have been incorrectly posting the RS-46 is dimmer than the RS-45.

@ShadyJ
Art measured the hd20 at 700 lumens in best mode, or thereabouts, PJC measured 630.

Let's call the Optoma hd20 700, and the JVC RS-45/RS-46 = 900.

By eye, you won't see that much difference, though if your HD 20 lamp has aged, a new JVC lamp will be significantly brighter. The JVC is a bit brighter on a new lamp though in best mode.

The main differences you will notice is a more uniform focus, more film-like image, higher contrast, etc...


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post #19 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 03:30 PM
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I only saw 3 samples, but all were the same. The 4810 was nearly identical as well.
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post #20 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Let's call the Optoma hd20 700, and the JVC RS-45/RS-46 = 900.

By eye, you won't see that much difference, though if your HD 20 lamp has aged, a new JVC lamp will be significantly brighter. The JVC is a bit brighter on a new lamp though in best mode.

The main differences you will notice is a more uniform focus, more film-like image, higher contrast, etc...

Nice! I will look more into these JVC projectors! One more thing, you mention 'risking last years lamps', is there a problem with certain lamps?
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post #21 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 03:49 PM
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No problems on this year's JVC's. BTW, also take a look at the Mitsubishi hc5, it is very good. I actually liked it very slightly better over the JVC RS-45 I own, though it is very similar overall and you'd have to be pretty OCD (like most of us in here are) to really tell much difference between these two projectors. The Mits has slightly better processing than the JVC, but the JVC has slightly darker blacks. The Mits has better motion.

Zombie will be A/B'n them soon in a more complete manner.


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post #22 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice! One thing I should mention is I have a HTPC hooked up to my system, and I like to play games from time to time, would these Mitsubishi and JVC projectors work well for that?
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post #23 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 05:12 PM
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I don't remember the lag of the hc9000d (which is the same as the hc5). You can check for it in the owner's thread, I just cannot recall at the moment. The JVC does have quite a bit of gaming lag, it should be fine for most / almost all single player games, it will be rougher for FPS games that you are playing seriously or scoring based. Any twitch game could be affected.


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post #24 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I see. Thanks coderguy, you have been very helpful!
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post #25 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey zombie, how does the black levels on the Mitsubishi compare to the JVC-RS45? If I went with the Mitsubishi over the JVC, would the black levels still be a big jump over the Optoma HD20? Also, regarding lag, would you say a racing game is playable on the Mitsubishi? What about a first person shooter? Also, do you know what the manufacturer warranty is on the Mitsubishi? How is Mitsubishi's reliability generally considered against JVCs? I am reading all these reports of failing bulbs on the JVC and that has me scared, I am not made of money, and I really don't want another lemon projector. My HD20's motherboard has already failed twice and the last time it nearly cost $400 to fix. Sorry to bombard you with all these questions, but this is a big purchase for me, and I want to get it right.
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post #26 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Huh, the post that I replied to disappeared.
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post #27 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Hey zombie, how does the black levels on the Mitsubishi compare to the JVC-RS45? If I went with the Mitsubishi over the JVC, would the black levels still be a big jump over the Optoma HD20? Also, regarding lag, would you say a racing game is playable on the Mitsubishi? What about a first person shooter? Also, do you know what the manufacturer warranty is on the Mitsubishi? How is Mitsubishi's reliability generally considered against JVCs? I am reading all these reports of failing bulbs on the JVC and that has me scared, I am not made of money, and I really don't want another lemon projector. My HD20's motherboard has already failed twice and the last time it nearly cost $400 to fix. Sorry to bombard you with all these questions, but this is a big purchase for me, and I want to get it right.

He hasn't compared them yet, I compared it to the RS-46. The JVC does have darker blacks for sure, but not by that much. They are both the same sharpness, the Mits is cleaner looking slightly, less noise at least on the samples I compared. It was at a dealer and not in my own room, oh and it was an hc9000d and not an hc5, but by all accounts they are the same projector.

Mits should be reliable but there is no way to know for sure which projectors are better reliablity wise really. You can buy a square trade warranty as an extra backup.

Zombie will be spending many many hours comparing them instead of my 45 minute comparison, but it may take him a couple weeks (not sure).


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post #28 of 29 Old 05-25-2013, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ugh, I just got hit with a big unexpected expense. Looks like no nice projector for me! I had my heart set on that HC5 too... waaahh!
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post #29 of 29 Old 12-09-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Ugh, I just got hit with a big unexpected expense. Looks like no nice projector for me! I had my heart set on that HC5 too... waaahh!

Did you ever end up upgrading? If so - what did you end up choosing? I am considering upgrading my HD20 to a Sony HW55ES - which is a bit more than your price point. Like you I am wondering if the jump in cost there brings that significant of a jump in the quality of the picture. I was initially pretty impressed with what the HD20 could do. My room is completely light controlled and I am currently projecting on a 120" AT screen.

Would appreciate any input from others who might have upgrade to similar model from an HD20 or even HD25...

- Scott
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