LCD Artifacts vs. DLP Artifacts? New 5020UB User. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 05-23-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone,

I am a longtime projector user. I've owned two CRT and four DLP projectors over the past twenty years.

My Mitsubishi HC4000 (DLP) recently failed and I decided to spend a little more money this time and invested in an Epson 5020UB (LCD). After ceiling mounting and careful alignement/calibration, I am confident that I have the projector properly tweaked. The brightness, blacks and color fidelity are beautiful with good source material, but I am noticing a few things that bother me and have a few questions for people who are familiar with both technologies.

Are LCDs inherently less forgiving than DLPs? Or, is it possible that the added brightness (~800 calibrated lumens in THX mode) of this new projector is just bringing out the imperfections in video with heavier compression or lower resolution? I notice far more grain/murkiness in shadow detail and compression artifacts than I have in any of my recent projectors. If I were to compare this image to a newer, 2000+ lumens DLP, do you think that I would see as many imperfections in the source material? Also, now I notice that DirecTV HD sources vary greatly in terms of sharpness/softness and color quality. These are things that I never noticed with my, albeit dimmer, 1300 Lumens (calibrated to ~400 lumens) DLP projector. Also, I seem to be detecting a little motion smear which is something I never experienced with DLP, though this was expected unlike the other issues.

Any thoughts on the differences between the two technologies and whether these artifacts are inherent to LCDs or just a function of the added brightness would be helpful. It pains me to be only two days in and already trying to determine if I'm going to sell this for a sub $3000 DLP projector. That said... any suggestions?

Oh, one more thing... am I alone in being able to detect the automatic iris? I can occasionally see when it gets fooled by certain lighting situations and detect a faint flicker from time to time. Is this normal?

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts!

"What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got, say, pitiful portable picnic players."
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post #2 of 7 Old 05-23-2013, 01:59 PM
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Can not speak on the Epson or LCD but I now have a Sharp Z30K DLP and after switching the HD box to 1080i I really see noise/lost of res in motion vrs my HC3000 with it set at 720p.. Maybe it is just the Mitsubishi of old were better than the "New"

Doug

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post #3 of 7 Old 05-23-2013, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Doug... While checking out the new 5020UB last night, I played a few older movies (on Blu-ray) and found some of them to be less watchable. Film grain and other imperfections seem to be more pronounced. Last Fall, when the Hitchcock Blu-rays were released, I couldn't get over how picky everyone seemed to be about the overt graininess in Marnie. With the new projector, I now understand why. Perhaps I'm just now seeing the signal closer to how it should look and need to get used to the difference, but I still suspect that the technology plays a part in this.

I owned an HC3000 too, which eventually led me to the HC4000. Though the HC4000 is quite a bit dimmer than the Epson, it seems to be far more forgiving. Unfortunately, I've had an awful experience with Mitsubishi regarding tech support for the HC4000, which failed repeatedly leading to various periods of time without a projector. Epson, apparently, has very good tech support and they have a two year swap-out warranty.

Thanks, again, for you input!

"What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got, say, pitiful portable picnic players."
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post #4 of 7 Old 05-23-2013, 10:44 PM
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You might try some different iris settings to see if you notice any difference in the "flickering", as to the other concerns, I would think DLP would be even worse for imperfections depending on the pj. You didn't mention your other source components besides the Directv, and make sure if your running the signal through a receiver, that it isn't doing any processing to the image. I think the newer pj is just showing you how bad the content actually was encoded? Is the image suitable on a good bluray?
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post #5 of 7 Old 05-24-2013, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your response, jnabq.

After another night of playing with the new projector, I am now convinced that it just resolves much more detail from the original source material and the flaws are more pronounced as a result. Prior to last night, I had been looking at a variety of sources ... Last night, I decided to dig into a few higher quality transfers on Blu-ray and all I can say is that I am blown away! Lawrence of Arabia looks stunning!

I have also found the source of the iris glitches. I frequently use an AppleTV to view Blu-ray rips and Apple has yet to enable 24fps mode out of the AppleTV so everything is converted to 59.94fps on the fly. This seems to trick the iris and the frame interpolation features resulting in periodic brightness/temporal glitches. Blu-rays at 24fps look perfect with these settings (though I avoid the frame interpolation feature with film sources, of course). DirecTV seems to cause the same trouble. Now that I have this figured out, I am very happy with the projector. Also, I have figured out that my DirecTV receiver seems to be set to a brighter gamma than my other equipment.

To answer your question, my sources are DirecTV, a PS3, and a DVD Audio/SACD player... these all go into an Onkyo receiver in pass-through mode so no processing.

Now I need to figure out an easy way to bypass my non-HDMI 1.4 capable receiver in order to see what 3D Blu-rays look like!

Many thanks!

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post #6 of 7 Old 05-24-2013, 08:33 PM
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Glad you made some progress in nailing down the issues. Using an older non-hdmi receiver myself, but my Panasonic bluray player has 5.1 analog outputs, and I use a monoprice 3x1 enhanced hdmi switch for the video sources. Panasonic DMP BDT500 is the newest I think at about $300 with 7.1 analog outputs. Might be a consideration if you need a new player, or you don't want to change out the receiver and have no other audio connection options.

I might be confused, your Onkyo does have hdmi then, but it's the older hdmi standard? Seen some people have no issue running 3d content through some older versions of the hdmi standard pass through ports, on some older components. Just because it's not 1.4 doesn't always mean it won't pass the 3d signal. Worth a shot anyhow.
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post #7 of 7 Old 05-29-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks jnabq. Yes, my receiver switches HDMI signals, and can be set to passthrough or fairly sophisticated video processing (circa 2008). Unfortunately, I have looked into it, and it doesn't pass 3D signals. It's a fairly high-end Onkyo from 2008 and I'm very happy with its sound quality, so I'll likely have to come up with a work-around until I feel the need to upgrade to a good 3D capable receiver (the new Pioneer receivers with high-quality class D amps are tempting). I think that it's going to be manual rewiring for now... Perhaps I'll buy a cheap switch from monoprice for the time being. I've ordered the 3D Blu-ray of Dial-M for Murder from Amazon, so I'll have to come up with a plan soon. wink.gif

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