I have small room that's very dark. Proj throw/size calculator confusing me.. HELP! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 05-24-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Good afternoon. I've got room for a screen perhaps 100-110" diagonal 16:9. The screen to the back wall is about 13.5 feet. So figure that at most I can have a 12.5 foot throw. I've got my eye on the Optoma HD25 but when I do the calculators online it shows that for a 106" diagonal the throw is 12'7" which seems completely ideal for me! Except that it's firmly in the green "recommended image brightness in rooms with ambient light" category.

My theater is a very dark room - with the door closed and the lights off it's basically pitch black.

Should I be concerned? Will the image be too darned bright? I've been eying the Elite 1.1 Cinewhite screens so I won't have too high a gain but still concerned. Can anyone provide some insight for me? Thanks!
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post #2 of 16 Old 05-24-2013, 02:04 PM
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I'm no expert myself but it depends on what brightness PJ Central's calculator uses....if it calculates based on the brightest setting for example, then using an Eco mode would drop the lumens down closer to 12-15fl (I'm just throwing numbers out there lol).

Personally, I would think that the average flat panel TV is around or brighter than 23fL so it may not be an issue but again, I'm sure more experienced folks will drop in to answer that. Every person is different too, so YMMV.

You could search the forum regarding 'projector brightness' or something like that in the meantime too...

BTW, I meant to add that you could always buy a cheap ND filter if you found a pj you like but perhaps it was too bright even in Eco mode.
Also, the advertised ratings may be noticeably less in real life viewing and the bulb tends to dim over time so that may help, I dunno...


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post #3 of 16 Old 05-24-2013, 02:49 PM
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Projector Central can be a bit over the place with their light ratings, but generally speaking, you have the ability to crank light levels way down on most projectors and get levels which are acceptable for general theater usage. That said, the HD25, much like the W1070 from BenQ, is a 'family room' projector, it does not have the black levels that a dedicated space is deserving. More accurately, it may be disappointing as the black levels won't be nearly what they would be with a more dedicated theater model. Of course, at that price point, there aren't really any of the better home theater models with the black levels which will really let a projector shine in a dark environment.

But, I would look at ways to maximize the quality of whatever projector you can afford that works for your specific setup. Generally, those designed for home theater or family room use, will provide an image that is acceptable, and can be very good as the room improves with quality. So, look at the extra lumens as a combat against the lamp dimming as it ages and giving more light for times when you want few lights on in the room or decide to watch some 3D.

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post #4 of 16 Old 05-24-2013, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm definitely looking for something under $1k - we've got a 2 year old and another on the way so we won't have lots of time to watch a zillion movies over the next few years, but of course we want it to look fantastic. 3D for me is not a 'need' but 1080p native is.

Could you recommend something in my price point with better black levels? I'm totally new to this but I understand my budget keeps me out of the really good stuff.
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post #5 of 16 Old 05-24-2013, 03:47 PM
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^^
Like you, I was looking for a 1080p pj with good black at first but after reading how good 3D can be nowadays, I decided to give up a little black and in searching for a 3D pj. My kids love watching 3D and I am sure yours will too when they are a bit older. I probably get the Benq W1070.
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post #6 of 16 Old 05-24-2013, 07:09 PM
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Mostly 2 pj's in that price range I think you should look at, Epson 8350 (lcd 2d only) and Benq 1070 (dlp 2d/3d). The Epson has lots of "lens shift" allowing lots of placement flexibility, while the Benq 1070 is somewhat limited. Check some calculators and see if it works in the room, and it (benq 1070) might be a little bright, but adding a ND filter can help. A good starting guide at price points. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391476/coderguys-top-projector-picks

A quick look at the Benq, 114" screen would be needed, to mount it at 12' 5" from the screen with at least 7' ceilings. 100" screen would allow you to mount it from 10' 11" at it's farthest distance and needing a ceiling of at least 7' 6". 106" screen at 11' 6" ceiling of at least 7' 2".
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post #7 of 16 Old 05-27-2013, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I've ordered the HD25, it appears to have the same chip as the lauded Benq. I'll cross my fingers on this one!
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post #8 of 16 Old 05-28-2013, 05:09 AM
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You could get a wide angle lens or bounce the image off of a mirror.

This guy uses a HC4000 with a mirror and said there's no loss in PQ.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qU4PNvq72BI
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post #9 of 16 Old 05-28-2013, 02:59 PM
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12'6" lens to screen and you can go with a 100" to 110" screen just like you want. That's a good way to go. I expect the BenQ and Optoma to be similar overall on performance with slight misses and hits from either one at that price point. With the price point you are at you should be very happy no matter what.

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post #10 of 16 Old 05-28-2013, 05:06 PM
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Your setup is nearly identical to mine. I'm 11.5' from a 96" screen. You'll love the HD25. Black levels are surprisingly good. I have an adapter attached to my HD25 so that I can screw a ND2 filter in when viewing 2D. Without the filter, it's just a bit bright even in Eco, unless you prefer the flame-on Best Buy demo mode. Not unbearable, just not quite natural.
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-29-2013, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you tell me where to buy this adapter and filter? That sounds like it might be perfect for me. Thanks!!
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post #12 of 16 Old 05-29-2013, 02:09 PM
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I've seen some on Amazon or a local home theater shop will have them. Just search for Neutral Density filter.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-29-2013, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks - he mentioned an adapter and I'm not seeing one out there anywhere.
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post #14 of 16 Old 05-29-2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyL712 View Post

Good afternoon. I've got room for a screen perhaps 100-110" diagonal 16:9. The screen to the back wall is about 13.5 feet. So figure that at most I can have a 12.5 foot throw. I've got my eye on the Optoma HD25 but when I do the calculators online it shows that for a 106" diagonal the throw is 12'7" which seems completely ideal for me! Except that it's firmly in the green "recommended image brightness in rooms with ambient light" category.

My theater is a very dark room - with the door closed and the lights off it's basically pitch black.

Should I be concerned? Will the image be too darned bright? I've been eying the Elite 1.1 Cinewhite screens so I won't have too high a gain but still concerned. Can anyone provide some insight for me? Thanks!

An ND filter solves your problem, it's like a sunglass lens for the projector to darken the image. Any side effects to the image are extremely minimal to generally non-visible. They only cost $50 or less depending which one you get. That is the solution and therefore I would not worry about how bright a projector is, instead worry about how dark of an ND filter you need to buy with it.

Also, if you are willing to spend just a few hundred more, AVS (sponsor of forum that sells projectors) sometimes get in B-Stock JVC HD250's for just a few hundred more than a Benq w1070. The w1070 is better than the Optoma if you can make it fit, but you'll need an ND filter for any of these low-cost DLP projectors on such a small screen. If you did buy a JVC b-stock HD-250 instead, it will be on an entirely different level for SCI FI movies and contrast, and it also looks more film-like.

As much as I like these low-cost DLP's for general TV viewing, gaming, sports, and of course 3D ---- I'd say if you are mainly buying a projector for 2D movies, find a B-stock or used JVC instead, it should be worth it. The JVC has an IRIS you can use to control the brightness, so you won't need the $50 ND filter, so the difference in price is about $350. It's worth it, though this projector does have the potential to develop a pink stripe issue on the edge, but the B-stocks come with a 2-yr warranty.


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post #15 of 16 Old 05-29-2013, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyL712 View Post

Thanks - he mentioned an adapter and I'm not seeing one out there anywhere.

The adapter is a step down 77mm to 72mm ring. The filter is 72mm. It doesn't have to be that exact size. You could go 72-67. The ring is hot glued to the edge of the focusing ring and the filter screwed in or removed when needed. It is a touchy focus ring so it always has to be refocused.
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post #16 of 16 Old 05-29-2013, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Got it, thanks. Looks like some people just put a 77mm filter in there and call it a day, too.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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Optoma Hd25 Hd 3d Home Theater Projector , Benq W1070 1080p 3d Projector , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 8350
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