Lighting Question + Where are the H6510BD's? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 06-05-2013, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi. First post.

I've been a proud owner of the h5360 for a few years. What a great little machine. The bulb's about dead, and though I had planned to replace it at least once, the new round of projectors is just too tantalizing to ignore.

I was able to use the Benq w1070 for a few days. What a treat! Brilliant color, but the shadow detail was really, really disappointing. Worse than this (2007 release, I think) 720p projector that I bought on sale for $450 3 years ago!

The h6510bd and w1070 are my only real options, I think. I would go a little higher if there were a good enough reason, but let's face it - staying just a little behind the curve with entry level projectors is not a bad way to go. This quality was absolutely out of the question for me in 2010.

The shadow detail problem was enough for me to think that maybe saving a few hundred with the Acer couldn't be such a bad idea, even if the shadow detail is no better (is it?). Also, my projector is in the living room, and the saddest thing about it is that it's very difficult to have a decent picture while still allowing enough light for guests to comfortably walk around if they wish. This new Acer should be an improvement in that area.

But...where are they?

I can't find any...does anyone know if there's anywhere an American can get one of these? Also, did that Newegg deal recur, and will it likely return again, or was it just a one-shot deal that I missed? Speculation welcome.

Finally, it hit me yesterday that the image could only be as black as the wall behind it. This is a white room, and that may be the problem. I don't want to paint it though... Should I tack some black sheets behind me? Any suggestions?

Also, I'm not TERRIBLY picky at this price range, but is the 96hz 3d really jarring? Does it kind of ruin the experience, to the point where people would just prefer to leave it off because it isn't worth it? This is subjective, but I'm just asking for your subjective opinions.

Emphasis on: where can I get one...today?

Thanks so much.
lt1196 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 06-05-2013, 11:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,983
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Shadow detail problems are not a projector specific issue, it is related to the calibration or settings of the devices and how the black levels are passed.

Your brightness setting affects your black floor and the gamma affects everything just above it. You have to get the black levels equalized correctly for the device that is passing, hence a mismatch between VL 0 or VL 16 or some enhanced HDMI settings that are messing with it. The w1070 does not have a shadow detail problem and this issue is almost always the setup rather than the equipment.

Also, make sure the player is set to output the correct YCbCr 4:2:0 / 4:2:2, and don't set it as RGB.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

**Current Projector Calculator** --
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

coderguy is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 06-06-2013, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oh, wow. I saw it for myself, read two of three 'official' reviews online that said the same, and just figured that was 'the way it is.' Should have signed on to this forum earlier...may be better to wait for a deal on the Benq then, rather than risk the 96 Hz 3d... But the brightness...I have nothing like a theater room. I guess it's time I read the 58 page h6510bd thread to make a more informed decision.
lt1196 is offline  
post #4 of 20 Old 06-06-2013, 07:45 AM
Member
 
cbc8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I've been in search of the h6510bd for almost a month now. I've been constantly checking on amazon, newegg, and pcrush. Saw one on ebay selling it brand new for 1,899USD! I was actually one of the lucky ones who was able to order with newegg at 630, but something went amiss with my payment due to regional issues.

Anyway, am now considering the Viewsonic pjd7820d, it's eligible for advance order now in amazon at 699.99.

Btw, can anyone give a quick match-up between the pjd7820hd and h6510bd?
cbc8000 is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 06-06-2013, 10:24 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sonyad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Go to Acer's website link for the h6510 and click buy. It will show the retailers that have it in stock. That's how I found it at buy.com (rakuten.com) when it was selling for $736.
Sonyad is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 06-09-2013, 02:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
CBC,

As I understand it, contrast ratio is improved by slowing down the color wheel speed. So, while the acer and viewsonic have nearly identical specs, but the viewsonic looks more appealing with the 15000:1 contrast ratio, the slow color wheel is the reason for that, and also the reason that it is decidedly *not* meant for watching movies at home, but more for presentations. This sounds to me like a setback that might be worth dealing with in order to save money, but I trust those who disagree with me, which is everyone so far.
lt1196 is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 06-09-2013, 02:59 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A few companies have told me that they will have the acer in stock in a week. Believe it when you see it, but even Acer's website quoted the 16th of this month I think.

I went ahead and ordered the Benq again last week, hoping the above poster is right about the shadow detail (the first unit was defective). But I have to wonder: does whathifi not know what they're doing? Their final word:

"The sharp and clear picture impresses, but lack of subtlety in dark scenes and motion issues hamper this budget offering"

And Cnet:

"The bad: No 3D glasses are included, and they cost $99 each. Low-level shadow detail is crushed. With the 3D upgrades, the Epson 3020 could be a better option."

But others disagree.

I'll let you know what I think of the 3d tomorrow. Expectations are high, though I'm not terribly difficult to please.
lt1196 is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 06-09-2013, 07:05 AM
Member
 
cbc8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for the reply.
I was already set in getting the h6510, but the waiting time has just been too long.
Then I came across the pjd7820hd - and you are spot on. Based on user reviews and forums, the specs are almost the same, with viewsonic having the upper hand on contrast ratio and somewhat a shorter throw. H6510bd on the other hand has the better color wheel and 2d to 3d conversion - in which wasn't that impressive.

I ordered the pjd7820hd and what bothers me now is that if I will really notice the difference with the color wheel speed. A lot of reviews, even happy users mentioned this. I'm a newbie myself as well and don't have any comparison with these home theater projectors.
cbc8000 is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 06-09-2013, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If you aren't satisfied, you could consider returning it in two weeks or so, and order the acer instead/as well. I'm very curious about what you will think about the viewsonic, and I sincerely hope you enjoy it, but popular opinion is not on your side. Maybe you could try some high contrast material, such as a black and white movie, just to see how bad the rainbow effect can possibly get, so you aren't surprised in the future. The Acer h5360 is said by many to have very prominent RBE, maybe not quite as much as the viewsonic, but over the past two years, it never bothered me at all. Luckily the experience is subjective. Good luck!

Benq coming tomorrow. Looking forward to telling you guys that it really is as good as they say after I watch Jurassic Park. My girlfriend has not enjoyed 3D too much in the past, (but I have), so the 144 Hz was another reason pushing me toward Benq. Hopefully, it is so "good" or "tolerable" that we will be able to watch it together. For me personally, I think 96Hz would be fine.

I want to black out my white room. I see a lot of cheap cloth online, felt, nylon, etc., all matte black. I'd like to just pin fabric all over my walls. Does anyone have suggestions of what materials might be best? Or if not best, then 'pretty good', if it's cheap. That'd be best.
lt1196 is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 06-09-2013, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oh, and what I meant to get across in that first paragraph is that, as a newbie, if you hook up the projector and don't think it's one of the coolest things you've ever seen, that should be enough to make the return in my opinion. The entry level projectors released over the past year are/should be stunning.
lt1196 is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 06-10-2013, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, got the projector, about to test 3d, but original replier, what do you mean YCbCr 4:2:2 / 4:2:0 ? I have no idea what that means, but in this horror movie I'm watching, there is just a ton of single-shade black, so Im very curious
lt1196 is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 06-11-2013, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A few things about 3D: first of all, it's just amazing.

Sainsonic glasses, black 144 Hz work very well. As said elsewhere, blacks retain a mild red tint, but it's hardly worth mentioning, all things considered.
I recommend these glasses - they don't "randomly" lose sync. They deactivate only if the glasses are turned away from the screen for five seconds. When you look back, they reactivate, with a 50/50 shot of being on cue. You do not TYPICALLY look away from a screen for five full seconds unless you are seriously distracted, like leaving for the restroom or to get a cup of water. In these cases, you would remove the glasses anyway. So if losing sync seems like a big deal, which it really is not thanks to the toggle switch, just take them off and leave them facing the screen and it won't ever (in my 4 movie experiences) lose sync. It's not anything like the problem I feared.

Benq w1070 3d really is incredible. 144 Hz flickering is invisible, though not undetectable. That is, you know SOMETHING is happening, but you can't actually see the flicker. It seems to be the slowest it could go before flickers would be visible for me, but even at 96 Hz, this dlp link 3D would still be incredible. My dad has a theater room with a 2011 Panasonic, I forget the model, but it's about $2800. It is LCD. The 3D on this is BETTER, though only one year newer, and 1/3 the price. If its all about 3D for you, this really is the entry level to get. But if 3D is for irregular use, I suspect the hd6510BD would be sufficient. But I watched 4 movies - RIPPED files, not even from a 3d bluray, and there was not ONE error. Not one instance of flickering or ghosting, period, and I was attending critically.

You lose color, contrast, AND resolution in this mode, so in a way, it really is only as spectacular as the usual, vibrant 2D image you usually get. But it is no worse, just different, and plays apparently without error. I recommend the biggest screen possible for 3D viewing. My screen is 100". A nice size. So much of the back wall is visible though that it staying there in the same place kind of steals momentum from the 3D. It's difficult to describe, but I can tell a larger screen would fix this.
lt1196 is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 06-24-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's a great morning!

Just got my FIFTH e-Mail in the past 6 weeks that an item (Acer H6510BD) was in fact on back order, contrary to the page's claim that it is "in stock." (EVEN NOW, the page says it is "in stock.") at least this site didn't immediately charge my card like the others.

Then I saw the "deals" part of these forums. Saw that h9500bd refurbished for $715, now sold out, and felt hugely jealous of everyone else on that thread.

(The reason I have been on this search stoll and want to replace the Benq w1070 is really my own fault. I have white walls in a small room, and I use a gray screen, whih reduces lumens further. My girlfriend doesn't care too much for the projector because I insist on having the lights off as much as possible in order to watch it, and there is not the possibility of walking around and talking when all the lights MUST be off. I realized that I don't actually want a "home theater," I just want the world's most kickass TV - and surround sound. So I need some serious Lumen output.)

Inspired by the deal threads, I searched differently for deals clearance etc, and couldn't find anything. I've checked eBay maybe ten times in the past 6 weeks, and there has always been just that one unit - for $1900! But this time, there was a refurbished model - for $540 (there is a no questions refund policy) - I snagged it immediately! Never been so excited about a purchase before! Alright, enough gushing. I'll write up a comparison vs. the BENQ when it comes in.
lt1196 is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 06-24-2013, 03:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Cowboys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Also, make sure the player is set to output the correct YCbCr 4:2:0 / 4:2:2, and don't set it as RGB.
My HTPC has YCbCr 4:4:4 and YCbCr 4:2:2. Which one should I use? It is currently set to be YCbCr 4:4:4. Thanks.
Cowboys is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 06-26-2013, 04:18 PM
Newbie
 
Poncho Moran's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Back in stock, yeah baby!
Poncho Moran is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 07-01-2013, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I strongly believe the refurbished one might be defective or have a bad lamp. For those who have seen both acer and Benq, after watching 30 movies on the Benq, I should be able to notice the brightness difference, right? Even on bright with Eco mode off, it doesn't appear any brighter than the Benq with smart Eco On. *if it looks too good to be true*...


Looks like Newegg is doing their deal again, but it's already out of stock there. Keep your eyes open if you want an Acer!

New Acer on the way (what a headache!). $701 shipped from compsource
lt1196 is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 07-06-2013, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
New Acer will be here today or Monday. After reading reviews and watching a YouTube video or two, also pulled the trigger on the Darbee Darblett. That will be here on Tuesday.

This is probably the price range, where you start getting an excellent picture, but the most room for improvement exists, that the Darbee would be most useful. Basically, I wouldn't be surprised if some, perhaps even many $1300 projectors are matched or outperformed by the Benq, but I wouldn't suspect than ANY of them would match the Benq + a Darblett. The hope is that the $1000 purchase of the Acer + Darblett either matches or *crosses fingers* outperforms the W1070. This is all about getting extra brightness, especially since that will translate directly into bulb savings for some people who may want to replace a bulb at 1000 lumens. For acer, maybe 5+ years, for benq, probably more like two.

No matter what happens, I'll be coming back to post my thoughts on the comparison between these projectors and the effects of the Darblett on each.
lt1196 is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
May I ask, is the Acer supposed to be any better in regard to rainbows than the Acer H5360 retailing for <$600 in 2009 was? I can remember when purchasing that unit that RBE it was the #1 thing reviewers were complaining about, but it is rarely mentioned as a major distraction in the case of the H6510BD. Read the Amazon reviews for the h5360 - the word "rainbow" is everywhere. And yet, the sources I have seen agree that it had a 3x speed color wheel, while the 6510's is only 2x! Over three years into the future, and in a unit more expensive, did Acer actually SCALE BACK in this important aspect?

The reason I must ask is that the Acer H6510BD Refurb is so ugly right now that I really think that even if it had the Darblet hooked up, the BenQ would still outperform it. So that alone is a reason to suspect that something is wrong with the unit other than that the bottom 1/8 of the image is totally washed out.

The other is that I was pleased to be able to put up with the rainbows of the h5360 (many people couldn't). Even though they were present, sometimes more than others, they were never actually distracting, and after a month or so, they became unnoticeable without making an effort to flick my eyes and draw them out, so I figured I was less sensitive to the RBE than your average bear. But these really are worse. 2D, 3D, high contrast, low contrast scenes , you name it, the rainbows are apparent. Can a unit be defective in virtually every way and still work? xD. Probably not...but then, with either the rainbows OR the overall PQ I've got here, couldn't believe a person who bought it and said they did not feel ripped off when they saw what the BenQ could do for only $200 more.

A post above I mentioned that today was the final day of the delivery estimate, and STILL I have not been able to get a tracking number from this company. Based on all of my experiences over the past 2 months, it just feels unlikely that it will actually arrive - or that it even actually shipped out - so I'm antsy to get to the bottom of this before I must choose to either keep or return the BenQ in a couple of days. If the rainbows really are worse than the H5360, and it isn't just the unit, I'll probably force myself to stick with the BenQ. Do you think this refurb Acer looks like it's supposed to, in terms of RBE, based on your best assessment of what I have said?
lt1196 is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lt1196's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
BenQ up on Amazon once more for $870! A steal any way you slice it..
lt1196 is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 07-08-2013, 12:49 PM
Member
 
Taffy Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Acer H6510BD in stock at Newegg for $799.00.
Taffy Lewis is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Tags
Acer H6510bd Dlp 3d Projector
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off