Introduction and Projector help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 06-07-2013, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone smile.gif
I am new here and new to home theater too, hifi is really my thing and I post regularly on vinyl engine. I am hoping for some advice on my new projector purchase, but first of all I would like to introduce myself. My name is Chris I live in Australia (Brit by birth) and I live on a cattle property in Far north Queensland. Hello everyone smile.gif
I have recently built an extension,(9mx8m) which is going to be basically a listening room but after evening meal the missus will invade for a couple of hours to watch the new projector. I want an LCD projector as I am not interested in messing with bulbs. As I said hifi is my thing so I dont want to spend a great deal (I have read similar posts time and time again on VE now I am doing it, the bestest thing in the world for little money smile.gif) but I dont want a complete lemon either. The projector will only be used after dark as it is the only time the TV ever gets switched on. My current TV is a linos 84 Metz CRT which I will for sure be keeping too.
Anyway I started this search looking at the Chinese projectors on ebay but only the 1280x800 ones that are apparently around the 2500 lumen mark upwards my first question is are any of these any good at all, is there one this is better than the rest or are they all junk? I ask as even with hifi now there are Chinese brands that are not bad at all like Ming da which are quite cheap and actually rather good so I wondered if this sort of thing had happened with projectors jet? We have just spent 35 grand on the extension so I want to really only spend maybe 600 dollars on the projector but if there is one that is worth the extra I can spend more like I said I dont want something I will regret.
Thanks in advance
Regards
Chris
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post #2 of 30 Old 06-08-2013, 03:14 AM
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Hi to the "land down under"!

You should not buy those cheap Chinese pjs. You'll just get a cheap toy. Your experience with audio in that regard isn't the same with the pj's for the most part. VIewsonic Pro8200 DLP 3D Ready, around $600-$700 and comes with a 3 yr warranty, next step up, Benq 1070 DLP Full 3D, sometimes on sale for around $800-$900. Epson 8350 LCD in the same price range, but is 2d only.

The Benq 1070 is about the best buy atm in that price range. It might be a little bright and some people have added an ND filter to tone it down, and lessen any RBE (rainbow effects). Compared to the Acer 6510bd, which may also be a consideration, if you just can't meet the price of the Benq. http://www.projectorcentral.com/acer_h6510bd_3d_home_video_projector_review.htm?page=Shootout-vs-BenQ-W1070
Their top pj's under $2k
http://www.projectorreviews.com/1080p-projector/under_2000.php
A good price/feature breakdown here by a trusted forum member. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391476/coderguys-top-projector-picks

Below these prices you generally start to see only 720p pj's. Generally their a little noisy, with poor black levels. Ok for 3d gaming and a few other options, but I wouldn't recommend 'em for a home theater setup.
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post #3 of 30 Old 06-08-2013, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I really want a Led projector are these LED?
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post #4 of 30 Old 06-08-2013, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Opps, I typed on my first post lcd instead of LED. I checked out the projectors suggested and it seems they are very good projectors but have conventional bulbs. My big worry with bulbs is them becoming like a tax every year or so and the possibility of them becoming unavailable which is why I thought about led projectors. Any thoughts?
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post #5 of 30 Old 06-08-2013, 07:56 PM
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There are some hybrid led's coming out now, but well above your price range.

http://www.avsforum.com/newsearch/?search=led&output=all&containingforum[0]=68&type=all&advanced=1

I think the Acer k750 is new and no reviews to determine how good it might be, but still over your price range at around $2k. You may have to wait for a nice led pj to come out that is cheaper, unless you look into the ones in the search above, and find one that will be tolerable. Most aren't 1080p, and will be lacking in blacks/contrast compared to some you can get with bulb pj's in the $1000-$1500 range.

As you'll find in the posts above, alot of people are like you, wanting a bulb less option with a great image in the $1k range. It may be several months before that happens.
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post #6 of 30 Old 06-08-2013, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok starting to see that I may have to go bulb which I did not want to do. Anyway I wonder if you guys can humor me? I will post a few of the Chinese projector links that I originally found before I visited here. Could you guys looking at the specs tell me what makes them no good and were alarm bell should be ringing?
I know people an make up specs if they want to but if something is not as advertised then paypal will refund you so I am guessing there is something in the actual specs that is honest and makes them junk.
This could be an education smile.gif
First link...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Native-1280-768-Contrast-2000-1-Full-HD-LED-Projector-3D-HDMI-3-USB-SD-F-AU-/130912595561?pt=AU_HomeEnt_Projectors&hash=item1e7affae69&_uhb=1
Second link...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Luxcine-ESP-300HD-LED-Home-Theatre-Projector-720P-resolution-2x-HDMI-input-/330916287558?pt=AU_HomeEnt_Projectors&hash=item4d0c25d446&_uhb=1
third link...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LED-PROJECTOR-HD-3D-PROJECTOR-MANUAL-FOCUSING-SUPPORT-VERTICAL-ZOOM-HDMI-XFH-H3-/281104906758#vi-content
Forth link possibly a bit more honest with lumens..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DLP-LED-PROJECTOR-Full-HD-Native1280-800-Resolution-Built-in-Android-4-0-OS-Wifi-/290915545616?pt=AU_HomeEnt_Projectors&hash=item43bbeaf210&_uhb=1
Firth link has no zoom but there are a few o line reviews
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Full-HD-1080P-LED-2800-Lumens-Projector-Contrast-2000-1-USB-2-HDMI-TV-AV-VG-/130914355985?pt=AU_HomeEnt_Projectors&hash=item1e7b1a8b11&_uhb=1
There are many more but what makes these junk?
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Chris
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post #7 of 30 Old 06-09-2013, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone at all? Has anyone here bought any of these projectors? Just asking if they are rubbish why?
Regards
Chris
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post #8 of 30 Old 06-09-2013, 11:15 PM
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Because their normally no where close, to the stated specs. Buy one if you like, and I wish you good luck.
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post #9 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnabq View Post

Because their normally no where close, to the stated specs. Buy one if you like, and I wish you good luck.
I am rushing into nothing but there does seem to be a blanket " they are all rubbish" thing going on but nobody seems to have actually seen one or tested one which is why I am sceptical. If they were not as described then paypal covers you so I find it hard to believe that seller will 2500 sales with 99.8% positive feedback are seeing stuff that is not as advertised. My worry is if what is advertised has advertised specs that are an issue in some way. I am new to home theater but I am learning fast that there is just as many preconceived ideas as in hifi..
I ask again what in the specs of my links is a problem?
Regards
Chris
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post #10 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 04:39 AM
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Because you can't get 2800 lumens out of an led. You should know from the get go the whole thing is a lie. But hey, call us closed minded and buy one. People on here don't know what they are talking about. Good luck!
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post #11 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 04:54 AM
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I've been digging around trying to research my future projector purchase. I was going to wait till I buy a house in a few years and build a "dedicated" theater downstairs.. However I'm itching for a big screen (Used to have a 100" screen in my bedroom some years back) to use alongside my 60" ST60 for those movies I just want the true "theater" experiance with.

If you look around at most of those "cheap" projectors.. they are not 1080P; most have a native reoloution of only 800x600 and as stated do not have the actual light output they claim with those LED's. By all means by one if you want to give it a shot but I have seen one of these cheap ebay projectors first hand (a friend of mine bought one when I told him to get teh HD20 a few years ago; needless to say after 2 days he bought an HD20) and it looked like crap; the light output was actually pretty decent but the image was NEVEr sharp no matter what we did and the detail and black levels were absolutely horrendous

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post #12 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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You are being rude Verge2 , I was not. I know little about home theater which is why I am asking questions you abrupt response is exactly my issue. I am simply asking why these projectors are rubbish and I am not really getting an answer. I am not going to rush out and buy anything but there seems to be a lot of animosity here rather than good info which is not what I was told about this forum. The ones I am looking at are ALL listed as 1280x 800 not 800x600 too. I asked simply why looking at the specs they are no good (with a smile), but I get rudeness it is a polite simple question. As far as I am aware a 120w led bulb form my research CAN give 2800 lumens. Not to say it is good but from what I can understand it is possible, I am happy to be corrected. I give polite advice every day on VE and here I am not getting polite responses here. I dont just want to hear these chinese projectors are great, I just want to know why they are not. Has anyone had one for example? what is wrong with the LCD if anything? if you think the lumen output is not possible (2800 lumens) then why and is it not possible?
Hifi wise I can say anything is rubbish but I dont unless I have touched it with my hands so to speak, I dont like Linns for example but I have never heard a Sota so I cant comment.
I gave a few links so you guys can check out all of them and see the if any are OK. I saw a youtube review of one of the linked projectors looking good with 4 fluro tubes switched on in the room so they cant be so dark. Again not saying they are good but it is a point.
I just wanted simple polite explanatory advice.
Regards
Chrus
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post #13 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 05:54 AM
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Caffe Latte, if you don't want to believe that people are out there selling complete garbage while making it look good then that's fine. But after MUCH research I have learned that the pros here know what they are talking about! I think there are many products that people don't need purchase to but to know its junk. That's what my mom would call their "reputation preceding" them. And from all the years of her saying it, I KNOW it isn't a good thing. If you really want to know it has been discussed a bunch here and other places on line. But you would save yourself a lot of time and just look at a few of the projectors that are recommended here in your price range.
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post #14 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cafe Latte View Post

You are being rude Verge2 , I was not. I know little about home theater which is why I am asking questions you abrupt response is exactly my issue. I am simply asking why these projectors are rubbish and I am not really getting an answer. I am not going to rush out and buy anything but there seems to be a lot of animosity here rather than good info which is not what I was told about this forum. The ones I am looking at are ALL listed as 1280x 800 not 800x600 too. I asked simply why looking at the specs they are no good (with a smile), but I get rudeness it is a polite simple question. As far as I am aware a 120w led bulb form my research CAN give 2800 lumens. Not to say it is good but from what I can understand it is possible, I am happy to be corrected. I give polite advice every day on VE and here I am not getting polite responses here. I dont just want to hear these chinese projectors are great, I just want to know why they are not. Has anyone had one for example? what is wrong with the LCD if anything? if you think the lumen output is not possible (2800 lumens) then why and is it not possible?
Hifi wise I can say anything is rubbish but I dont unless I have touched it with my hands so to speak, I dont like Linns for example but I have never heard a Sota so I cant comment.
I gave a few links so you guys can check out all of them and see the if any are OK. I saw a youtube review of one of the linked projectors looking good with 4 fluro tubes switched on in the room so they cant be so dark. Again not saying they are good but it is a point.
I just wanted simple polite explanatory advice.
Regards
Chrus

While Verge was a bit sarcastic in his response, there is no need for you to go on a tangent here. I explained why its not good. 800X600 blwon up on a big screen just looks terrible these days. From personal experiance even ones with a 1280x720 resolution have bad color accuracy, an unsharp picture and terrible black levels.

If you want something super cheap you can just throw up on your wall and are not extremely picky then by all means buy one. If you want something trhat has a decent picture and good color; stay the hell away from them.

Fist bump to a fellow new yorker above me as well wink.gif
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post #15 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 09:22 AM
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Search this forum for "white van scam" or "volare" and see if your ebay projectors share the same wonderful specs.

There are many reputable brand names Epson, Optoma, Acer, LG, Viewsonic, Benq, Mitsbushi, etc. with both high end and low end models that get plenty of comments on this forum alone. With all the complexities that good companies face producing quality projectors I don't know why you feel a bunch of no name, no support vague ebay projectors will yield a pot of gold.
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post #16 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks I will have a look. I did not pick my list of possibilities without checking anything though the Luxcine for example has a few youtube reviews online and it seems to have a company webpage. It also appears to be discontinued too though. Here is one review link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tPG2r8XcjQ
Also this projector http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Full-HD-1280-768-LED-Digital-VIDEO-PROJECTOR-HOME-THEATRE-HDMI-VGA-TV-AV-/120991813562?pt=AU_HomeEnt_Projectors&hash=item1c2bac8fba&_uhb=1 has quite a lot of user feedback online and also youtube home reviews but no zoom feature. I was not just picking anything off ebay. I dont doubt there is some scams out there, but 120w led would produce easily what they are saying they will. Saying this I did find in a few cases the same projector listed as 800x600 and another seller selling it as 1280x800 so scams are going on. I did not find this going on with any that I linked though and they all apparently have a 5.8 inch lcd inside.
I am quite sure there are scam and junk from China going on but I have a portable DVD player for example that I bought in a stop off with the missus in Bangkok on my way back from visiting the UK. I bought it from an electronics market it has no make on it 7 years ago now and it is still going strong and we used it daily for a 9 month trip round Australia so it has proved itself.
What I was hoping is that someone would have looked at at least a couple of the links without preconceived ideas and tell me if the specs were to be correct (I understand they possibly are not) what would be the problem with the projector. If I decided to spend much more on something else knowing what to look for is going to be helpful and if the ebay sellers are hiding a poor spec in their advert then it could be a good lesson whatever i buy.
Regards
Chris
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post #17 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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What sort of money do brand name LED projectors start at? I even read a few guys online retrofitting led modules into dead projectors which was the first I read that led projectors were actually possible.
I actually started my search looking for a diy projector web site that I read about ages ago. I remember they used to sell a projector with a Hid bulb inside that was about 25 dollars but the company seems to be gone now as I cant find a trace of it. Basically in the new room we are going to sit too far away to see the tv so I am going to end up using the projector as a tv so it is why I am so worried about bulb life and why I am looking at a long bulb life or cheap bulb solution.
Regards
Chris
Edit I also need a reasonable screen too how much do I need to put aside for it?
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post #18 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 08:54 PM
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You should be able to find the cost of led projectors here in this forum. Just search. Once in awhile when checking youtube for projector reviews, I see several links to other videos for diy projectors. Way beyond my expertise, though.

How far away are you sitting that a tv isn't viewable? Seems like you need a light canon and a really big screen. Check out the DIY Screen section. That should keep you busy for quite some time.
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post #19 of 30 Old 06-10-2013, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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The room is 9m x 8m and the screen and we will be sitting facing down the long of the room and the sofa will be around 6m from the screen. The diy projector site did kits to build you own projector but they also sold pre-made ones.
The missus asked a question last night regarding bulb projectors. The Benq that was recommended for example gives a bulb time of 6000 hours max. What can we realistically expect? Also how many years are the replacement bulbs made for? I really dont want to go the bulb way but she asked me to ask smile.gif
Regards
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post #20 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 07:58 AM
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So you're sitting about 19 feet back. Were you planning on mounting your projector in front of or behind the seating?

I can't provide the answers on bulb life. You'll have to peruse that thread. But your mounting distance, seating distance and screen size are critical in knowing which projectors are applicable for your room.
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post #21 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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The projector is going to be ceiling mounted (I have already run power for it) so as it is up on the ceiling I dont suppose it will matter where it is as it should not be in the field of view. At least I dont think so but this is my first lcd projector.
Regards
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post #22 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cafe Latte View Post

You are being rude Verge2 , I was not. I know little about home theater which is why I am asking questions you abrupt response is exactly my issue. I am simply asking why these projectors are rubbish and I am not really getting an answer. I am not going to rush out and buy anything but there seems to be a lot of animosity here rather than good info which is not what I was told about this forum. The ones I am looking at are ALL listed as 1280x 800 not 800x600 too. I asked simply why looking at the specs they are no good (with a smile), but I get rudeness it is a polite simple question. As far as I am aware a 120w led bulb form my research CAN give 2800 lumens. Not to say it is good but from what I can understand it is possible, I am happy to be corrected. I give polite advice every day on VE and here I am not getting polite responses here. I dont just want to hear these chinese projectors are great, I just want to know why they are not. Has anyone had one for example? what is wrong with the LCD if anything? if you think the lumen output is not possible (2800 lumens) then why and is it not possible?
Hifi wise I can say anything is rubbish but I dont unless I have touched it with my hands so to speak, I dont like Linns for example but I have never heard a Sota so I cant comment.
I gave a few links so you guys can check out all of them and see the if any are OK. I saw a youtube review of one of the linked projectors looking good with 4 fluro tubes switched on in the room so they cant be so dark. Again not saying they are good but it is a point.
I just wanted simple polite explanatory advice.
Regards
Chrus

I'm not being rude any more than you are. I'm being certainly sarcastic however. If you weren't going to believe people's answers, why ask the question? Its illogical to me.


However, since i am bored waiting on some work, i will humor you.




You posted the following:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Native-1280-768-Contrast-2000-1-Full-HD-LED-Projector-3D-HDMI-3-USB-SD-F-AU-/130912595561?pt=AU_HomeEnt_Projectors&hash=item1e7affae69&_uhb=1&clk_rvr_id=489733148931

1. The projector looks cheap. Very cheap. Look at the lens crudely sprouting out of the body. The AV input section is a joke. The IR on the back SHOWS EXPOSED CIRCUIT BOARD!!!!

2. There aren't 3000 lumen LED projectors. These don't exist. Runco made one with 540 lumens... it was 15,000 dollars. Man those people at runco are dumb, some company from china(who has done nothing but copy technology for the last 10 years, and offered ZERO innovation) has developed a 3000 lumen LED lighting system. How do they and every other projector company stay in business... that's right, this projector uses a bulb. Stay tuned for a different number.

3. The remote looks like it came out of a gumball machine.

4. It comes standard with 2 fuses. Why in god's name would a projector come with extra fuses? Seriously, somebody give me a good explanation for that.

5. 5.8'' TFT LCD Panel. LCD projectors don't use large panels, epson's are .7 inches. So why are they using one almost 10 times as big? Well, experienced people know the trick, know the scam, and have seen this before. They are using the equivalent of a 720p smartphone screen, and shining a flashlight through it. The colors and contrast on this are terrible, it's basically a toy.

6. google white van scam. Notice how similar this looks to the people's failures.

7. This is a bulb projector. I have seen the same plastic thing, and the last time it had a manual. The manual in broken english, even showed how to replace the bulb. I'll give you a hint for step 1. See that latch on the back, it pulls off that hole panel. Cheap overhead projector bulb goes in there.


People on here are trying to keep you from wasting your money. These chinese knockoffs are junk, they are not home theater projectors. Trust us and don't be fooled dude, we are trying to help you.
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post #23 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cafe Latte View Post

The projector is going to be ceiling mounted (I have already run power for it) so as it is up on the ceiling I dont suppose it will matter where it is as it should not be in the field of view. At least I dont think so but this is my first lcd projector.
Regards
Chris

It does matter where a projector is mounted regardless of it being in your field of view or not.
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post #24 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate all the help very much and your breakdown of the issues of the linked projectors is very informative. Why do named brand projectors use such small lcd panels I wonder? If the linked projector were actually led which I can see why they would not be the led bulb IMO would have to be very large maybe this is why they are using such a large panel? Maybe it is the cheapest panel to use which is probably more likely as you said.
I am not sure why more named brand led projectors dont exist as a 120w led array bulb will give easily 3000 lumens maybe there is another issue focusing the light or something but I really cant see why led can not produce decent lumens
You said that what they are basically doing is getting an lcd panel and shining a torch through it. I though this was how a projector worked, what actually happens in a decent projector?
I am starting to think about the Benq mentioned at the start of this thread with its 6000 hour max bulb life but I am still wondering how much in reality this will be. I am also still very curious about LED projectors and I for the life of me cant see what the problems in making one would be as people on the net have retrofitted led bulbs in bulb projectors with success. Maybe there is a resistance to change from the industry who are addicted to the revenue from replacement bulbs.
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Chris
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post #25 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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It does matter where a projector is mounted regardless of it being in your field of view or not.
Yes I have just been reading about that. I did not know there was so much to it. I was reading about the Benq and the small lens shift issue. I will be 5m minimum from the screen maybe up to 6m and I want to ceiling mount the projector so I am now worried that the Benq might be in the field of view if I went this way.
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Chris
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post #26 of 30 Old 06-12-2013, 04:37 AM
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People are making legitimate led projectors, the forum is littered with them. They just aren't very bright.
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post #27 of 30 Old 06-12-2013, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Cafe Latte View Post

Yes I have just been reading about that. I did not know there was so much to it. I was reading about the Benq and the small lens shift issue. I will be 5m minimum from the screen maybe up to 6m and I want to ceiling mount the projector so I am now worried that the Benq might be in the field of view if I went this way.
Regards
Chris

Yes, I was getting the distinct impression that you are wading in unfamiliar waters. Forget trying to build a projector and shop for a good one. You can built a ventilated box for the projector if you are worried about it being in your field of view.
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post #28 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I have not been back for a while we have been very busy on the farm and the new projector has been at the back of my mind. Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice it is much appreciated. I am thinking to get the BenQ , but before i take the plunge is there any bewares I need to consider as you guessed I know nothing about home theater but there is little I dont know about hifi smile.gif
Thanks again
Chris
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post #29 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 07:08 AM
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Just read the Benq 1070 thread under this forum to get a feel of it. It's definitely a fine machine but I've noted some technical glitches that pop a little too frequently. Other than that, order from a reliable dealer with good return policies and enjoy.
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Just read the Benq 1070 thread under this forum to get a feel of it. It's definitely a fine machine but I've noted some technical glitches that pop a little too frequently. Other than that, order from a reliable dealer with good return policies and enjoy.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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