Best non 3D projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 07-26-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys my name is joe new to the forum cam anyone recommend a good non 3d projector, 3d because of my sons seizures disorder is not something I will be using , just wondering if anyone had any good ideas
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post #2 of 22 Old 07-26-2013, 09:31 PM
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Well there are plenty out there, but I am a big fan of the epsons simply because of their warranty. IF it breaks in the two year period (90 days on lamp) then they will send out another one 2nd day all paid by them and they will pay for shipping for your broken one. Some companies you must send in pay for shipping and wait a month. I've had enough problems with projectors to realize this is not fun to deal with, and they don't seem to be as reliable as tvs are. I'd stay away from DLP, some people get sick from the motion of the color wheel, good ones are not supposed to cause this, but why take the chance with your son if there is a slight possibility. If you have more specifics (room size, lighting, screen size, etc) we can narrow some pjs down for you
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post #3 of 22 Old 07-27-2013, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your help I have dimable recess lighting totally a light controlled room, the room is 15 feet wide by 18 in length and I have a elite electronic 125inch screen. I just don't see the point in spending the money on 3d if it is something I will never use. Thanks in advance guys
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post #4 of 22 Old 07-27-2013, 05:48 PM
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Most newer projectors designed for home theaters now support 3D. The manufacturers are doing this because it adds very little to the price and of course to stay competitive with the other manufacturers. You really don't lose anything by buying a model that does support 3D, even if you never purchase the 3D glass or use the 3D capability. You might be able to still find a good used or better still a 'B' stock 2D only JVC model (I suggest you call up the sales dept. at the AV Science Store.(1-877-823-4452). Also for new 2D only models, Epson has the Home Cinema 8350 which is a 1080p 2D only projector that sells for about $1300. Its a good buy for the money.


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post #5 of 22 Old 07-27-2013, 06:45 PM
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There is no cost associated with 3D and all GOOD projectors will have 3D. Kind of like having 18 presets on your car stereo, it doesn't cost MORE for 18 presets vs. 2 presets, and if you use it or don't use it is completely irrelevant to the fact that your car came with 18 radio presets.

Good projectors cost more not because of 3D, but because of better video processing, better optics, better parts, better optics, better build quality, etc. There are any number of reasons why 'better' projectors have a higher cost, but 3D is really not one of them. I mean, one of the least expensive projectors on the market right now is the BenQ W1070 which is readily available for under $900, but it includes 3D. Hey, it's a great entry level projector, and it SHOULD be on your list... But, depending on how sensitive your son's eyes are, I would probably recommend against DLP altogether due to the color wheel potentially causing issues.

So, LCD and LCoS are great options. LCoS is the best looking projection technology out there right now. JVC's RS46 (X30) is a great model to go to if you can swing it. Screen size may be a bit limited (about 120" or so max), but not terribly and since you have no use for the 3D function, then you can get a lot out of it.

Other options would include the Sony SXRD (LCoS) projectors, the Epson 5020 and the Panasonic AE8000.

If your electric screen is not tab-tensioned, then I would save money towards a better screen vs. a better projector, and maybe go with the older, but still exceptional Epson 8350.

Keep in mind light control includes reflections - dark paint, dark walls, dark carpet, dark ceiling. Any human can turn the lights off, so that doesn't equate to 'light control'. Light control means that any light coming off the screen is not being reflected back onto the screen, and that is only achievable through a dark room.

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post #6 of 22 Old 07-28-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post


Keep in mind light control includes reflections - dark paint, dark walls, dark carpet, dark ceiling. Any human can turn the lights off, so that doesn't equate to 'light control'. Light control means that any light coming off the screen is not being reflected back onto the screen, and that is only achievable through a dark room.

Great point, when I first painted my walls and ceiling the darkest black I could find, I still wasn't happy until I threw black carpet down and black curtains on the wall, it made a huge difference as the light now gets absorbed instead of reflected

I also think the JVC is a great choice next to the Epson, they produce a fantastic picture
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post #7 of 22 Old 07-28-2013, 11:51 AM
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Under $3000, the best choice for a 2D image is a b-stock or refurbished JVC DLA-RS40 or RS45.

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post #8 of 22 Old 07-28-2013, 06:07 PM
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I would suggest : infocus sp8604,
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post #9 of 22 Old 07-29-2013, 02:00 AM
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There's no point of trying to find a projector that doesn't do 3D, when you can just not use it. I have 3D capable projectors that I use only for 2D.
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post #10 of 22 Old 07-29-2013, 08:30 AM
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The only real reason I can see for not going 3D, as mentioned above, would be if you need to offset your projector. I know the Epson 3D projectors don't allow for Lens Shift, which is why I won't be going 3D any time soon - my ceiling fan means I have to use lens shift.
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post #11 of 22 Old 07-29-2013, 02:48 PM
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I disagree. Most 3D projectors are DLP, which can cause some people to see rainbows. If you already know your son has problem with 3D, why take the risk on rainbows. And why pay for 3D that you'll never use? Go with a good 2D projector such as the Epson 8350. Full disclosure: I had a DLP projector for years and never noticed any rainbows but I just purchased the 2D Epson to replace my old DLP because I don't want to risk rainbows with a new DLP and I don't want to pay extra for 3D that I am pretty sure I'll never use.

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post #12 of 22 Old 07-29-2013, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdfrietze View Post

The only real reason I can see for not going 3D, as mentioned above, would be if you need to offset your projector. I know the Epson 3D projectors don't allow for Lens Shift, which is why I won't be going 3D any time soon - my ceiling fan means I have to use lens shift.

I think that's just the cheapest model, the other models have good lens shift
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post #13 of 22 Old 07-29-2013, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnilsson View Post

I disagree. Most 3D projectors are DLP, which can cause some people to see rainbows. If you already know your son has problem with 3D, why take the risk on rainbows. And why pay for 3D that you'll never use? Go with a good 2D projector such as the Epson 8350. Full disclosure: I had a DLP projector for years and never noticed any rainbows but I just purchased the 2D Epson to replace my old DLP because I don't want to risk rainbows with a new DLP and I don't want to pay extra for 3D that I am pretty sure I'll never use.

3D doesnt add to the cost of the projector. They are the same new as the other models that were new when they came out. If you want to buy something used that is 3-5 years old, that's a big risk. If you want to buy a dlp, the 3D projectors and the non 3D projectors can have rainbows. I don't understand why you think that 3D adds to the cost of the projector. Doesn't make sense when all projectors are 3D capable and are cheaper and cheaper every year. If you buy a used projector that is not 3D, you can most likely get the improved model with 3D for almost the same cost used.

To get a reliable projector, buy a new projector and it will be 3D capable, which you don't have to use. Or buy a used non 3D projector that is 3+ years old and most likely will have problems sooner than later
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post #14 of 22 Old 07-30-2013, 10:25 AM
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I don't see how a 3D projector can cost the same as a 2D projector with the same specs (other than 3D ability). For one thing, I've never heard of any company offering a new ability (such as 3D) for the same price as the old ability. After all, it takes additional engineering, etc. to provide 3D. That costs money. For another, most 3D projectors I have seen come with at least two 3D glasses, which are also an added cost for the company making the unit. Companies are not in business for charitable reasons; they tend to want to recoup their R&D and other costs, which means that new features will cost more until the old features get so cheap that the new feature adds noting to the old cost. I have yet to see that be the case with 3D. But I have not conducted a full review of projectors, so I may be wrong. Basic economics, though, lead me to believe that 3D still costs more.

And that still doesn't address the problem of rainbows. I haven't seen a low-cost 3D projector that is not DLP. If I had seizure issues with 3D, I'd avoid DLP too, just in case.

And your argument against buying older model projectors only goes so far. The Epson 8350 (a 2D projector) still to this day gets best-buy, best in class, and rave reviews, despite being a model that was released about 3 years ago. Sure, Epson will replace it, but given that it's still a best-buy, there's no reason to ignore it in favor of a more recently released 3D projector if you don't care about 3D. Unless the projector itself is a used model, which has been in use for the past 3 years, it should not have problems any sooner than another model made today. The 8350 may even have fewer problems as it's bugs have been worked out for the past 3 years, whereas a new projector may still be having its bugs discovered and worked out.

There are valid arguments to make in favor of a newly released 3D projector, but potential risk and problems with an older, but unused or at least under full warranty, projector, are not such.

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post #15 of 22 Old 07-30-2013, 12:14 PM
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virtually all Home Theater Projectors made today are 3D and most do not include the glasses. It may even cost a manufacture more to make a 2D projectors as all newer components would be designed for 3D. If they released a 2D version it would most likely have the feature just disabled. The Epson 3020 is an entry level LCD 3D projector the closest replacement to the 8350 for about the same price with 2 pairs of glasses.

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post #16 of 22 Old 07-30-2013, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnilsson View Post

I don't see how a 3D projector can cost the same as a 2D projector with the same specs (other than 3D ability).
Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it isn't the case.

3D processing is integrated into video processing chips. All projectors require video processing chips, and as manufacturers move forward with video processing technologies the old processing chips are discontinued and replaced with new chips. The new chips don't have added costs, they cost the same as the old chips because the build requirements of manufacturing remains the same. So, a $10 non-3D chip gets replaced with a $10 3D capable chip. This means that there is no cost on the front end to add this 3D capability.

Now, there is some cost with LCD with the new chipsets which had to be developed for 3D projection, but this cost is minimal, and IMO, Epson is gouging people on the new chips, but this won't last long specifically because of what BenQ and Optoma are doing in the DLP department.

The reason the 8350 is so popular is because of the lens shift and lens range which is included at the price point, but when it was released 3 years ago, this was a $1,500+ projector, while the 8700UB was closer to $3,000. Now, the 3020 and 5020 are the replacement in that price point market, but the 8350 remains along with the Panasonic AR100 because of their placement flexibility. That's what they deliver for a very good price. I expect within a year or two the 8350 will go away and the 3020 may get upgraded with longer zoom optics and lens shift... maybe. I have a feeling the reason the 3020 doesn't have those items is not because they couldn't put them on for the price, but because there was very little incentive for people to spend more on the better 5020 model.

Panasonic, by example, doesn't have a 'cheap' version of the AE8000 out there. They have the very different AR100.

But, JVC went from the non-3D projectors to the 3D projectors with absolutely zero price change from model year to model year, and have lowered their pricing in subsequent years while continuing to improve their product.

Not that any of this matters since the OP hasn't checked back in since his second post.

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post #17 of 22 Old 07-30-2013, 12:42 PM
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This is a silly debate on a thread where wertman stated right off that he does not want 3D. I will, however, point out that the 3020 costs $300 more than the 8350 (and has a lower contrast ratio than the 8350), which seems to support my argument that wertman should ignore 3D projectors and look at 2D projectors as he'll get more for his money with a 2D projector given his statement that he will not use 3D.

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post #18 of 22 Old 07-30-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry guys to stir up so much of an argument it's not that I would not want 3d I thought having a 2d projector would be a more reasonably priced alternative especially with my son having seizures I would not want to run the risk of something happening, I did not even factor in to consideration the color wheel thing. I am not really sure what that is but I am probably going to look at the 8350, as long as i get a thumbs up i would be getting an awsome picture. Thanks so much I admire all of you and am drooling over everyone's theater. Thanks so much guys
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post #19 of 22 Old 07-30-2013, 01:10 PM
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The 8350 is a very respectable projector. It does not match the image quality of the Panasonic AE8000, the Epson 5020, or my personal favorite - the JVC RS46.

While those cost more, they have an appreciably better image quality which is more suited for dedicated and properly treated home theater environment.

So, at the end of all this, it depends on what you are specifically after.

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post #20 of 22 Old 07-30-2013, 03:26 PM
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Agreed. There are projectors that are much better than the Epson 8350. I would have loved to buy one of them. But they were all significantly more expensive and I could not bring myself to pull the trigger on one of them given the cost/value of the 8350. But it is a 3-year old model (despite its continuing good reviews) and it does not have 3D. If I could have gotten as good a projector for the same price, with 3D, or a newer model that was as good a buy, I would have done so as it usually does not hurt to have added options or the most recent technology available. So far, though, I haven't heard of a better basic projector (though if 3D is important to you, there are other very similar models from both Epson and other makers that should do just fine). But new projector models seem to come out every month, so if you can wait, who knows what a value you might find?!

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post #21 of 22 Old 08-01-2013, 12:40 AM
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Better video processing, better optics, better parts, better optics, better build quality with a better projectors.You just want a non 3D projector.Wv7Zubiggrin.gif
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post #22 of 22 Old 01-17-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wertman View Post

Hi guys my name is joe new to the forum cam anyone recommend a good non 3d projector, 3d because of my sons seizures disorder is not something I will be using , just wondering if anyone had any good ideas

I have a Sony VPL-HW10 in 'like new condition' with only 90-original hours on it that I am seriously thinking about selling so I can move up to 3D. What price range are you proposing?

JSJS
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