Would this room work with a projector? (pics included) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 07-28-2013, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys. We just purchased a new house a few months ago and I'm starting to work on my home theater in the basement. I have began to think whether I could mount a projector in this room or just go with mounting a TV on the wall. Sorry for all the crap that's blocking the view, but that's the flat back wall the screen would mount on. I'm new to this so info or tips would be appreciated. Here are some specs of the pictures provided:

Ceiling height: 84 inches (7 feet)
Floor to air duct: 76.5 inches (6 feet 4.5 inches)
Width of wall: 151 inches (12 feet 7 inches)

I'm thinking that if at all possible i would mount the projector either directly in front or behind the air duct as there are studs on each side. What do you guys think? Is this doable or a difficult task at hand?





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post #2 of 20 Old 07-28-2013, 08:44 PM
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Sure, that's all well and good. It doesn't look like you have anything approaching a worthwhile throw distance at the duct, so you likely have to go well behind it and drop the projector down a foot or so to clear the duct. Not a big deal. You could go shorter throw with the BenQ W1080ST, but you give up some image quality overall with short throw models like that. So, do some measuring.

Behind the duct, and dropped down, you will need a projector with lens shift like the Epson 8350 or the BenQ W7000.

On top of all that - paint the walls and ceiling dark if you actually want some good results.


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post #3 of 20 Old 07-28-2013, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Sure, that's all well and good. It doesn't look like you have anything approaching a worthwhile throw distance at the duct, so you likely have to go well behind it and drop the projector down a foot or so to clear the duct. Not a big deal. You could go shorter throw with the BenQ W1080ST, but you give up some image quality overall with short throw models like that. So, do some measuring.

Behind the duct, and dropped down, you will need a projector with lens shift like the Epson 8350 or the BenQ W7000.

On top of all that - paint the walls and ceiling dark if you actually want some good results.

Thanks for the response. The front part of the duct to that wall is 104 1/4 inches. I thought that the closer you get the projector to the wall, you simply compromise the size of the picture on the wall. I went to the Viewsonic website and I put in a screen size of 70'' and they said the draw distance would be 8' 7". This would put me right in front of the air duct. Or, I could go directly behind it which would be ideal being that it would sit above the seating area and out of the way of walking traffic.

If you're thinking I need to drop it down a foot I'm wondering if this would even be possible in this room. That would bring the projector down to 6 feet, and I'm 6'1. It seems like this would just be hanging very far down. Painting the room would be no problem if I move forward with it. Any other thoughts?
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post #4 of 20 Old 07-28-2013, 10:09 PM
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Mounting the PJ in front of the duct, a BenQ1080ST will throw a 115" wide (or larger) image on the wall. That's with an 8 foot throw (since it's in front of the duct). You probably wouldn't be directly below a stud if you mount it in front, but that would be the tidiest install.

As far as darkening the room, it should be sufficient to darken just the alcove section between the duct and the screen wall (including the ceiling).

Mounting behind the duct, you might make the BenQ1070W work. With a 2" vertical pole standoff to the ceiling mount added to the 8" of vertical lens shift, you could end up with the PJ at 6'2" and still have the image clear the ductwork.

Check out the BenQ site. Its projector calculator is pretty thorough.
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post #5 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 01:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post

Mounting the PJ in front of the duct, a BenQ1080ST will throw a 115" wide (or larger) image on the wall. That's with an 8 foot throw (since it's in front of the duct). You probably wouldn't be directly below a stud if you mount it in front, but that would be the tidiest install.

As far as darkening the room, it should be sufficient to darken just the alcove section between the duct and the screen wall (including the ceiling).

Mounting behind the duct, you might make the BenQ1070W work. With a 2" vertical pole standoff to the ceiling mount added to the 8" of vertical lens shift, you could end up with the PJ at 6'2" and still have the image clear the ductwork.

Check out the BenQ site. Its projector calculator is pretty thorough.

Thanks for the reply. I agree that mounting in front of the duct is the best way to go as well. I looked up the calculator on the website for the BenQ1080ST. An 8 foot throw would give me a diagonal screen size of 159 inches which is way too large. Do I maybe not need a short throw if mounting it at around 8 feet from the wall? I'm hoping I can find something where I still have room to put in a center channel speaker at the bottom of the screen. If I mounted the 1070W in front of the duct at 8 feet, I could get a diagonal screen of 95''. That doesn't sound too bad. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks for your feedback.
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post #6 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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anyone guys?
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post #7 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 10:28 AM
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Check the BenQ calculator again for the 1080ST. You possibly overlooked the "Zoom" slider which defaults to 1.0. By zooming in, you reduce the image diagonal from 159 down to 133 inches (115" width). That will be plenty bright with the right paint on the wall, and leaves you enough room for speakers on the sides. Or...

...you could mount a screen a foot or so in front of the wall, which would reduce the size of the image to whatever you want. (Or, just move the projector closer.)

If you use the 1070, move it back a couple of feet behind the duct. The further back you mount it, you'll be giving the vertical lens shift (8 inches at the screen) more distance to work with, resulting in a higher mounting elevation for the PJ. 6'2" to the bottom of the PJ, I estimate, at around 11 feet back, which will project something around a 110" diagonal image.

The Optoma HD25 will need to go back even further, probably around 12-13 feet, and will need an extra couple of inches of pole length to lower it as it does not have vertical lens shift. Probably ends up a couple of inches lower than the 1070.

I'm in a similar basement situation but have 89 vertical inches (and no duct) to work with. Makes a difference.
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post #8 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 10:53 AM
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Projectorpeople.com are very helpful in selecting projectors for your particular needs. And they have throw-distance calculators that work wonderfully (they are also great people and sponsors of this site). I've purchased two projectors from them over the years and I'd highly recommend them.

As to having to mount your projector directly to a stud, I took a slightly different path. There was no stud where I wanted to mount my projector, so I mounted a board to two studs, painted it to match my ceiling, and mounted the projected exactly where I wanted between the studs. It has worked for about 10 years now in earthquake country, so it should work elsewhere too.

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post #9 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 11:14 AM
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While it is nice, in theory, to put a projector in front of the duct, your only option there for a 1080p model is the W1080ST from BenQ. You don't have a long list of options or choices available to you, but an option of one. If this projector was the best image your money could buy you, then I would say "Go for it!" without reservation, but the reality is that this projector doesn't produce the best image for your money due to the short throw optics. As such, as nice as 'what you want' is in theory, the reality remains that you have to decide whether or not you actually want the best home theater for your limited budget, or if you are going to make further sacrificed to the quality of your setup due to an aesthetical requirement.

Now certainly, you can go to a normal projector, mount it in front of the soffit and get a 70" diagonal - but if that's the case, then get a 70" TV instead. Projectors have all sorts of tradeoffs with light control requirements, etc. which impact image quality and the viewing experience. If you have no interest in any of them, then just get a flat panel. They are easier to deal with and won't give you those headaches. Really, with front projection you should be starting at 92" and going larger from that size and to do that on a budget, and with a requirement for the best image for your money, you aren't going to get there with the W1080ST.


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post #10 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 11:43 AM
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I would second the notion that you probably shouldn't bother with a projector if you will end up with an image smaller than 92 inches diagonally. Coming from a conventional flatscreen TV, a 133-inch image seems like overkill. Tell that to any of the PJ users here at AVS who have been watching a 92 or even 110-inch screen for awhile. Heck, 50-inch plasmas seemed gigantic to many people five years ago -- now people are moving those into their bedrooms to make way for bigger and better.

I would, however, take exception to the opinion that the W1080ST does not represent the best image for the money (specifically, the OP's money). In his particular situation I think it is a serious contender. I would bet that it wil produce a more immersive, entertaining experience than a 70" flatscreen costing twice as much.

Many at AVS were skeptical when the W1070 was announced. Now (almost) everyone is a believer that you can get an excellent PJ for less than a thousand bucks. I think BenQ has earned the benefit of any doubts concerning their new products.

As of now there may not be very many users here at AVS who have experience with this new 1080ST and can compare it to their other PJs. While that unfolds, check out the reviews for this unit at Amazon, which are quite positive.
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, thanks for all the feedback everyone. I really do appreciate it. I guess putting the projector in front of the soffit really limits my options, so I'm moving on from that idea.

Now that I think of it mounting it behind the duct may not be the end of the world. If I placed it just at the rear of the couch, it would be out of walking traffic and would prevent people from hitting their head on it (I'm 6'1). This measurement would be about 134 inches from the wall. Does this open up my options more? If it helps the duct sits down just shy of 8 inches and the ceiling height is 7 feet.

My second issue is that I can't have the image take over the entire wall because I would like a center speaker on the wall. Even putting the zoom at 1.20 for the 1080ST with a 8 foot draw I"m getting a diagonal of 132 inches. This seems like a bit much. I placed some dark tape on the wall to measure what a 16:9 ratio would be for a 96" image diagonally and it looks pretty darn good to me. I'd be content with that. Thoughts?
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post #12 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 02:39 PM
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I'm very happy with 84 inches at 9-10 feet with my optoma hd25, but I am not an expert like some of these folks. 96 sounds awesome to me.
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post #13 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 02:41 PM
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Don't forget that you also need a projector mount, which will make your projector hang down another 4-5 inches from your ceiling. If you go with a projector, I would put the projector in front of the duct. I have a projector in a room with 8' ceilings and I'd prefer to have it a bit higher, not that it causes any problems, it just seems rather low at times (I am also 6'1").

But as some have pointed out, you should really consider the price of a TV versus a projector and screen of the same size (I have yet to see a painted wall that looks as good as a screen). If the price is comparable, I'd go with the TV over a projector and screen (size being the same) because of room lighting issues and fan noise issues you always have with a projector.

Also consider how much space you need on the sides of your projected image/TV for front L and R speakers. A center speaker is great, and needed for an immersive feeling, but you also need front speakers. A center speaker will not be enough for movies and music. Make sure you leave enough room for front L and R speakers outside your image area.

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post #14 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 03:33 PM
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At what distance will you be sitting from your screen and where do you generally like to sit in a movie theater?

If you like sitting in the 'middle' of the movie theater, then you should go for a screen size which is about 9" of diagonal for each foot of viewing distance to get that theater feel. Generally speaking, from 12' a 110" diagonal is typical. Some people like sitting closer, so 120"-130" is proper, and some like sitting further back, which makes 92" to 100" appropriate. The common sizes for diagonal are 92", 100", 106", 110", 120", and 133" with some oddballs from some manufacturers in there as well.

Don't be fooled by what you put on your wall. If you haven't had front projection, then go by your viewing distance and your theater seating preferences. In a home, after a 50" screen you better believe that anything you put up may seem 'big', but in reality, you get used to it extremely quickly and there is no reason not to make the most of the experience to suit your true to life theater expectations.

Now, with a 11' throw distance, and I will call it a 100" diagonal, this is your list of options:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?g=1&hide=0&st=1&mfg=&p=500&p=4000&w=&r=&br=&ll=&ltg=&t=&db=&dt=&c=&ar=&dvi=&wr=&hls=1&pjl=&pjw=&pjh=&td=11&i=d&is=100&sort=pop&sz=15

It includes several of the models I listed before. All projectors have lens shift which will allow you to get an image almost anywhere you want on the wall without issue and will clear your soffit nicely.

You should get a decent projector mount with an interchangeable pole on it so you can lower the projector exactly the distance you need to. This way the lens clears the soffit, while the rest of the projector can actually be above it. This maximizes your distance between seating and the projector nicely.

I've done several similar installations, and getting the projector above seating is always one of the better choices as sound emanates from the sides/back of most projectors so it helps to keep projector noise down to a minimum for seating below the projector and nobody will bump their head until they start jumping on the couch.


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post #15 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 04:11 PM
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In the set up I have it does not allow me to put a center speaker below the screen because the screen is about 10 inches from the floor.
Yes, I know low ceilings. mad.gif
Low ceilings I guess is 6 1/2 feet with a massive wood main beam for the house that is about 12 x 8.
The screen is about 4 1/2 feet infront of the beam so I had to mount the center speak behind the beam and next to the beam from the floor joists.
It's not a perfect solution but it works.
I have the center speaker pointed down towards the seating area.
Low ceilings are not a projectors best friend.
Another problem with low ceilings is when someone walk infront of the projector.
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-29-2013, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

At what distance will you be sitting from your screen and where do you generally like to sit in a movie theater?

If you like sitting in the 'middle' of the movie theater, then you should go for a screen size which is about 9" of diagonal for each foot of viewing distance to get that theater feel. Generally speaking, from 12' a 110" diagonal is typical. Some people like sitting closer, so 120"-130" is proper, and some like sitting further back, which makes 92" to 100" appropriate. The common sizes for diagonal are 92", 100", 106", 110", 120", and 133" with some oddballs from some manufacturers in there as well.

Don't be fooled by what you put on your wall. If you haven't had front projection, then go by your viewing distance and your theater seating preferences. In a home, after a 50" screen you better believe that anything you put up may seem 'big', but in reality, you get used to it extremely quickly and there is no reason not to make the most of the experience to suit your true to life theater expectations.

Now, with a 11' throw distance, and I will call it a 100" diagonal, this is your list of options:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?g=1&hide=0&st=1&mfg=&p=500&p=4000&w=&r=&br=&ll=&ltg=&t=&db=&dt=&c=&ar=&dvi=&wr=&hls=1&pjl=&pjw=&pjh=&td=11&i=d&is=100&sort=pop&sz=15

It includes several of the models I listed before. All projectors have lens shift which will allow you to get an image almost anywhere you want on the wall without issue and will clear your soffit nicely.

You should get a decent projector mount with an interchangeable pole on it so you can lower the projector exactly the distance you need to. This way the lens clears the soffit, while the rest of the projector can actually be above it. This maximizes your distance between seating and the projector nicely.

I've done several similar installations, and getting the projector above seating is always one of the better choices as sound emanates from the sides/back of most projectors so it helps to keep projector noise down to a minimum for seating below the projector and nobody will bump their head until they start jumping on the couch.

Thanks for the link to those projectors. That's helpful. Let me explain a few ideas in my head and tell me if I'm going in the right direction. For this room the back of the couch would be about 138" from the wall that the image will be displayed on. I don't want the projector too far in front of it because then people could hit their head on it when standing. I also don't want it too far behind because it will disrupt walking traffic. To give an example, lets take the Epson 8350. The unit is 15.7" long. I'm thinking that I would mount the projector with about half the unit covering the end of the couch (7.75" inches in front of the back, 7.75" inches over the back). This would put the lens/draw distance at roughly 146" (12 feet 1 inch). When I use the calculator it says that a draw distance of 12 feet 1 inch would give me a diagonal image between 58"-123" (I'm desiring around a 92"-96").

Does this seem like a possible solution? Any thing else I'm missing and/or need to know?
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post #17 of 20 Old 07-30-2013, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thoughts?
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-30-2013, 07:15 AM
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All projection throw distances are from lens to screen, not from middle or back of projector, but from center of the front of the lens. So, that is the measurement that matters exclusively.

If you have some range to move the projector forward or backward a bit, then it gives you the flexibility of placement which is ideal. The back of the projector matching the back of the couch is likely what I would be shooting for and recommending if I were installing in your location. It isn't the 'perfect' basement with 12'+ ceilings, but almost nobody has that, so you really just have to take an honest look at what you have and enjoy what you do have which will be a very nice setup.

Now, we never got into budget, but the 8350 is a very capable 1080p non-3D projector. It is several years old at this point, but still provides a very good image for the money. The Panasonic AR100 I believe would be considered a comparable model.

But, there is some level of quality benefit with the nicer projectors such as the Panasonic AE8000, Epson 5020, and JVC-RS46 models. Those benefits really become apparent in a room which is properly painted and darkened.

So, while I think you are starting to get there with a solid projection setup, you still have to consider the space.

It is this simple: A $3,000 projection screen will provide less improvement to an image than $100 in dark paint will.

I will still happily prod you towards telling me your viewing preferences when you go to a movie theater and not let your eyes decide a screen size for you. No matter what you say, I can tell you that if you think 92" is 'large' right now, then 6 months after purchase of a screen, you will wish you had gotten the 100" screen. It is the NUMBER ONE complaint of people who buy TVs. They wish they had gotten the next size up. I personally ran with 106" for years but finally just gave in and put in a 161" screen. It's about as large as I could possible go with 8' ceilings in my basement. I'll figure out the seating and all the rest later. biggrin.gif


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post #19 of 20 Old 07-30-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm aware that the throw distance starts at the lens, I was just giving those measurements to figure out where I am going to mount it. since I'm just starting this whole theater thing I don't want any screen larger than 96 inches. plus, I want to make room for it center channel speaker below the bottom of the screen. I know that I can always upgrade, but right now that's not my plan. In regards to my budget I plan on spending right around $1000.

I've done a little research and it looks like I'm down to around three models that would work well: Epson 8350, benq1070, and the optoma hd25. since I have that soffit that hangs down about 8 inches from the ceiling, would it be best that I go with the projector that has the lens shift? is there anything I should keep in mind when comparing these three projectors? If not one of these, which one would you recommend at a similar price point?
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post #20 of 20 Old 07-30-2013, 12:41 PM
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For the installation you just described -- that is, a 12-foot throw, with a display no larger than 96 inches diagonal -- I think you'll be wanting the Optoma HD25, which is a longer throw than the BenQ 1070W (the BenQ's smallest image at that distance is around 110" diagonal). Even at 110" diagonal image size you'll still have at least 16 inches below the screen for a center channel. Alternatively...

...you could go back to mounting the 1080ST in front of the duct, suspend an Acoustically Transparent screen one foot or so in front of your wall, and place all of your speakers behind the screen. (This is what I am currently doing. There are threads on how to do this in the DIY Screen forum.) This would also allow you to "shrink" the image from the 1080ST down to a smaller size range.
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