Optoma HD131Xe, HD (1080p), 2500 ANSI Lumens, 3D-Home Theater Projector - Sub $800 New Budget King? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2873 Old 10-18-2013, 08:39 PM
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No keystone, pic is deceiving. Mount & screen is straight, per calculator.

Straight up wall cast.

Video is awesome, text on the other hand could use improving in the upper left and bottom right.

If you watch only video, this the unit to get. I cannot think of a tv that would produce this awe factor at price point!!!!

I adjusted my mount to maximum minimum to keep the screen furthest off the floor.

I am satisfied with the PJ, just if it focused in the upper left and bottom right better for text, I would think this is the ultimate PJ.

Blacks are amazing for this price point. No complaints from the wife! wink.gif
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post #632 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitgsx View Post



Which mount is this?
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post #633 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by clark17 View Post

Augiedoggy,

What type of screen are you using?

I'm currently using 110" DIY painted drywall with Black Window paint fomula giving me N7.5 natural grey paint rating. The formula uses aluminium particles which makes brightntess to be close to N8. Since our projectors are pretty bright and my screen needs repainting, I was recommended to go with ~N7.5 paint or lower with N7 (darker) to improve blacks.. My only worry is it might improve 2D picture at the expense of 3D brightness...

BTW... I watched few more SBS flicks (few minutes here and there) and I'm very happy with 3D picture Optoma produces. Much better than I epxected, even my wife had no issues with orderign 2 extra pairs of 3D glasses.

Beside the obviuos tiny problem with the soft corners, I'm very happy with the projector. Sometimes I notice tiny flickering in ECO mode, which I can easly get rid off it after switching to BRIGHT lamp mode for 20 seconds or so and than back to ECO. This also happen on my Optoma HD65 in the first 100 or 200 hours ...
I am using a cheap electric screen with a 1.0-1.3 (not sure ) gain...it is a white screen.... but my room is very dark with red walls and lots of dark wood...I can stick my hand in front of the screen when its displating black and not see any light on it....this was not possible with my old setup without dimming the averall picture beyond acceptable brightness levels to view..

Motion movement is not as good as my plasma I will admit...but I only noticed because I looked for it yesterday and noticed blur...
On a positive note I installed a darbee dartlet processor and now I dont notice the soft corners anymore.... somehow they look sharp and good even on the grid pattern.
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post #634 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

Art at projectorreviews discusses the tradeoffs between the W10170 and HD25LV (better colors & cleaner image for the benq, better blacks for the optoma). (e.g. a da-lite HP).
Interesting, let not forget the hd25lv has a much higher lumens output and is not the same projector.
So far besides that review you mentioned everyone else who has compared the two seems to have preferred the hd131xe image, the pics seem to show the w1070 as having a cold less lifelike image... Yes the w1070 seems to have a cleaner image and out of the box colors. but is also looks like the color has been turned way down to achieve this effect. (i'm sure this is not the case but thats the best way to describe what I see...)
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post #635 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 07:33 AM
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Projectors at a perfect Rec709 color space will tend to look a little more muted compared to how many people are used to watching a typical display. You can easily adjust the gains and/or saturation of each color to counteract this in the Benq's CMS (not the gain in the gray-scale control, but the CMS gain). I don't think color would be a valid reason to choose one or the other projector.

The biggest thing going over the Benq I think is the fact that Optoma supports RF 3D instead of DLP Link, that and possibly a better gamma curve. It could be that the perceived crushed blacks on the w1070 are in fact that people do not like 2.2 gammas below 25 IRE, wouldn't surprise me. I actually prefer the gamma curve to come down to about 1.8 to 2.0 below 30 IRE as to increase shadow detail, even on a JVC projector. Perhaps the Optoma has a bit of a downward bump on the gamma at the lower IRE's (not sure). Otherwise be careful about YCbCr/RGB/Auto settings and VL 0 to 16 causing crushing and judging a PJ incorrectly as a source mismatch when it is really a bad setting on your device.


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post #636 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niggenz View Post

Which mount is this?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067OOHC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A little pricey, but I enjoyed mounting it.
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post #637 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 10:15 AM
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When i finally buy the Optoma i'm thinking of buying this screen, cause it's affordable and it's by Optoma:

http://www.beamercenter.nl/product/251182/category-198518-169-projectieschermen/optoma-ds-9092pmg-213-x-149-16-9.html

It would mean that i'd have a 80 inch screen, if i did the math correctly. I have a 60 inch plasma now, 20 inch more doesn't sound like a lot,but i checked and it's quite the difference.
I am not very capable when it comes to attaching a wallbracket or anything to do with tools and what not, so my plan is to first put the projector on something like this:

http://i40.tinypic.com/hrak94.jpg

Usually a rear speaker is on that, but i never use them. Would this be a good enough height for the projector? It's about 70,5 cm in height.
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post #638 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 12:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

When i finally buy the Optoma i'm thinking of buying this screen, cause it's affordable and it's by Optoma:

http://www.beamercenter.nl/product/251182/category-198518-169-projectieschermen/optoma-ds-9092pmg-213-x-149-16-9.html

It would mean that i'd have a 80 inch screen, if i did the math correctly. I have a 60 inch plasma now, 20 inch more doesn't sound like a lot,but i checked and it's quite the difference.


Have you checked out the projector calculator yet? http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD131Xe-projection-calculator-pro.htm

That is going to be a VERY bright picture. I saw from a previous picture you submitted of your viewing area that you are limited in what size screen you can use. Good luck
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post #639 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 12:23 PM
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He can use an ND filter to tame the brightness and he should be fine.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

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post #640 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

Have you checked out the projector calculator yet? http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD131Xe-projection-calculator-pro.htm

That is going to be a VERY bright picture. I saw from a previous picture you submitted of your viewing area that you are limited in what size screen you can use. Good luck

Oh man...i am from a dumb guy, but i really have no idea what to do on that site. I wish it was in my language, English is not my mother language, Dutch is. I dont mind a very bright picture though, in fact i love it. When i still had the Toshiba LED, boy was it bright and i loved that. The max distance i can sit away from the screen is around 4,8 to 5 meters.

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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

He can use an ND filter to tame the brightness and he should be fine.

What is a ND filter? I have absolutely no idea.
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post #641 of 2873 Old 10-19-2013, 06:17 PM
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Are most of you going with universal mounts? I don't need anything fancy, but I'm having a hard time finding anything actually made for this model.

I'm using a 100" screen with 10' tall ceiling at 12' throw so I've got 8" of play from the top of the screen (if I understand the calculator correctly) I'd want about a 2' drop.

Was thinking of this guy here: http://www.amazon.com/eHotCafe-PRB-10-WHT-Premium-Quality-Projector/dp/B0098T5OLO/ref=sr_1_18?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1382231479&sr=1-18&keywords=projector+mount
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post #642 of 2873 Old 10-20-2013, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

Oh man...i am from a dumb guy, but i really have no idea what to do on that site. I wish it was in my language, English is not my mother language, Dutch is. I dont mind a very bright picture though, in fact i love it. When i still had the Toshiba LED, boy was it bright and i loved that. The max distance i can sit away from the screen is around 4,8 to 5 meters.

If you click on the link ( http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD131Xe-projection-calculator-pro.htm ) it will take you to a site where you can see how the HD131XE will work with any particular sized screen. With an 80 inch screen the projector needs to be mounted 6" above the top of the screen. And it needs to be mounted anywhere from 2.6 to 3.2 meters (8.8 to 10.5 feet) away from the screen to be in focus. The 6" above the screen means that if the top edge of the screen is (For example:) 6 feet above the floor then the projector needs to be mounted at 6 feet 6 inches from the floor.
The chart that the link takes you to also shows how bright the image will be from your given numbers. At 80 inches the image will be very bright even if the screen gain is .7 (less than 1).
Quote:
What is a ND filter? I have absolutely no idea.

An ND (Neutral Density) filter is a gray filter that dims the light so that whites don't just get blown out. And your blacks can be blacker. It could be an advantage. It is a good area to experiment with in order to get the picture quality you want.

Good luck. I am sure there are sites that talk about these things in Dutch. (Your English is excellent, btw.)
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post #643 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidkidd View Post

The difference is in the PCB. The firmware recognizes an onboard identifier t display the appropriate options. This allows Optima to essentially deliver multiple products from one reference design. This is usually accomplished by the placement of a rice grain sized resister in a unique location on the board.
I learned something new to debunk this theory with these projectors....
After reading in the older hd25 projector threads I discovered that those with the hd131x would in fact see hd25 as the model# while in the service menu. making them recognized as the same projector by the firmware and those with either the hd25e or 131xe will see "VDHDNUE" as the model name in the service menus.... also making the hardware as being recognized as the same same by the firmware.... so if there is some difference it light output I would venture to say it had to be accomplished by some mechanical change or a setting that was changed in the service menu.... in any case I think they would be treading on grey legal area with both models technically being the same "VDHDNUE" both on the sticker at the bottom as well as in the service menus if they did make changes to improve one without the other...
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post #644 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 07:59 AM
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Could be slight differences in the color wheel that give it a difference in brightness, but other than that 100% same hardware using same firmware. One dimmer, but slightly more accurate. One allowing more light through, but slightly less accurate and slightly worse black levels.

P.S. I tried using Netflix 3D via my PS3 and all I got was a "stuttering" picture out of it. I went through the PS3's display setting and it does detect the 3D capability of the projector, but I don't think the projector is detecting the PS3's output mode properly. Also, the PJ seems to lose the source and cycle through all of them every time the PS3(or 360 for that matter) output changes modes... annoying but liveable provided I can work out the rest of the issues. Finally, my old mount doesn't fit it either... :(

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post #645 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

The HC8000D is a step up from the 7900, with an additional iris (better blacks), and comes with a spare lamp. $1600 new, shipped currently on ebay (from what appears to be a reputable seller).

I tried contacting the seller about he Mitsubishi warranty, but haven't heard anything. This outfit seems to be a gray market reseller. Not sure this is worth almost $900 more than the Optoma considering the risk of no warranty.
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post #646 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 10:54 AM
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H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreationz View Post

Could be slight differences in the color wheel that give it a difference in brightness, but other than that 100% same hardware using same firmware. One dimmer, but slightly more accurate. One allowing more light through, but slightly less accurate and slightly worse black levels.


P.S. I tried using Netflix 3D via my PS3 and all I got was a "stuttering" picture out of it. I went through the PS3's display setting and it does detect the 3D capability of the projector, but I don't think the projector is detecting the PS3's output mode properly. Also, the PJ seems to lose the source and cycle through all of them every time the PS3(or 360 for that matter) output changes modes... annoying but liveable provided I can work out the rest of the issues. Finally, my old mount doesn't fit it either... frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreationz View Post

Could be slight differences in the color wheel that give it a difference in brightness, but other than that 100% same hardware using same firmware. One dimmer, but slightly more accurate. One allowing more light through, but slightly less accurate and slightly worse black levels.


P.S. I tried using Netflix 3D via my PS3 and all I got was a "stuttering" picture out of it. I went through the PS3's display setting and it does detect the 3D capability of the projector, but I don't think the projector is detecting the PS3's output mode properly. Also, the PJ seems to lose the source and cycle through all of them every time the PS3(or 360 for that matter) output changes modes... annoying but liveable provided I can work out the rest of the issues. Finally, my old mount doesn't fit it either... frown.gif
OK but my point is if they were different wouldn't they have to have a different model number? Neither the hd131xe or the hd25s have any reference to those model names on them anywhere in the menus or on the unit... their official model number for both is the same " VDHDNUE" and according g to optomas website my serial number is good for either an hd25e or a hd131xe... when I try to use it for firmware for any other model it tells me the serial number is for the wrong model but those two..
And the same calibration settings are being used for both models as well as out of the box... (same firmware as well) so if the color wheel was different this wouldn't be the case... I can't believe no one has compared these units side by side yet.
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post #647 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 11:25 AM
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I went to the store today and asked a few questions, basically in my room I could have a 128 inch projector screen if I wanted. What I am going to do however, is something that has been recommended to me as well here, first buy the projector. Project it onto the wall, see how I like it from my viewing distance and then I go measure it and buy a screen that is approx. those meassurements. I have a question, I am trying to find out how much inch a certain projector screen would be. I want to know how much it is inch, so that I know how much bigger than my 60 inch plasma it's going to be. How do inches get measured? Let's just say for now that my TV's screen height is 114cm and the length is around 132. How do I find how much inch that is?

Also....next to the HD 131xe, what other projectors are there that are the same price and specs wise just as good/better?
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post #648 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 11:30 AM
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I believe, despite whatever the difference other than the case may be, that the firmware can detect the difference between the two models and that the "model" is actually the "model family" for which the firmware was written and so apply to multiple models. This is also common among other electronics as well. Many CD-R drives back in the day were either +R or -R, but had the exact same hardware and the only difference was which modes were unlocked in the firmware and what was printed on the hardware cover. I suspect one would likely have to not only compare side-by-side, but also open both and look at the chipset and individual components inside. It could be something as simple as one uses a newer slightly cheap version of the same chipset as the other. I'd also be interested in looking at operating temps for the two units as that might give us more info as well. It could also be "same hardware", but "slightly different light path".

Overall, at this point I'm at a loss. I personally went with the HD25-LV for the extra bump in brightness so I could use a lower gain screen with a wider viewing angle. I know just about the only difference between the HD25 vs HD25-LV is the color wheel(with the LV having worse blacks, but allow more light overall to pass through).

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post #649 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post


Also....next to the HD 131xe, what other projectors are there that are the same price and specs wise just as good/better?

I don't think there is a projector close in specs and price to the HD131Xe, least from my research before I purchased one.

Seems like it's the BenQ 1070, or one of the closely related optoma's are the bang for the buck budget choices.

I was able to pick this up and receive a partial refund of $153 and $50 gift card.

I can't find a deal like the one I received.
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post #650 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 12:18 PM
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Acer h6510bd and Viewsonic pjd7820hd are really the only direct competitors price-wise, but the VS definitely has a white segment, but I cannot recall if the Acer also had a white segment. A white segment in the color wheel isn't the end of the world, but if you don't the need extra lumens, best to avoid it to play it safe.

I would generally choose the Benq or Optoma over these two, but I do like the Viewsonic if you have a giant screen.


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post #651 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 12:27 PM
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I don't want to spend more than 200 on a projector screen, and I don't know if I can find motorized one for 200, but if not...a manual one will do fine. Do I need to clean the screen regularly? Or just like a HDTV once in a while?

And are Celexon and Optoma good brands for projector screens?
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post #652 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvana_av View Post

I tried contacting the seller about he Mitsubishi warranty, but haven't heard anything. This outfit seems to be a gray market reseller. Not sure this is worth almost $900 more than the Optoma considering the risk of no warranty.

Could always get a squaretrade warranty, but the delta would increase to >$1k... given the mixed reviews on lens sharpness of the hc8000d and the general lack of availability of the xv-z30000, the Optoma and the Benqs seem to be the best bets for you.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #653 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

I don't want to spend more than 200 on a projector screen, and I don't know if I can find motorized one for 200, but if not...a manual one will do fine. Do I need to clean the screen regularly? Or just like a HDTV once in a while?
The way I got started (and the way some others have as well I think) is to buy the projector and find your perfect size of screen by viewing it on a wall. Some people stay with the wall and use white (or a special DIY concocted paint color). You will definitely know what size is best once you watch the image for a while. And you might never need to clean the screen. Perhaps a light dusting, but the only thing you need to start is the projector and a bluray player. (Or dvd or htpc player).
My first screen was a solid screen of melamine painted with a white paint others in my avsforum group suggested. I still use that screen in my basement theater. Upstairs I have a manual pulldown screen. Both are 100' diagonal. They both work great. The projector will be the biggest help for you in deciding what to do next. And perhaps your room will be best served by a certain sized screen anyway. I went with the biggest that fit well in the room.

Good luck
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post #654 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

The way I got started (and the way some others have as well I think) is to buy the projector and find your perfect size of screen by viewing it on a wall. Some people stay with the wall and use white (or a special DIY concocted paint color). You will definitely know what size is best once you watch the image for a while. And you might never need to clean the screen. Perhaps a light dusting, but the only thing you need to start is the projector and a bluray player. (Or dvd or htpc player).
My first screen was a solid screen of melamine painted with a white paint others in my avsforum group suggested. I still use that screen in my basement theater. Upstairs I have a manual pulldown screen. Both are 100' diagonal. They both work great. The projector will be the biggest help for you in deciding what to do next. And perhaps your room will be best served by a certain sized screen anyway. I went with the biggest that fit well in the room.

Good luck
i too did this.... only I made screen from blackout cloth bought on ebay which led to me making about 6 of this for myself and freinds.... they were great cheap fixed screens stretched over a wood frame like a canvas painting.... then I went motorized...
you measure screen size diagonally btw if I understood the question correctly Moon walker....

Cyrano...
I believe I remember you from the old x1 or hd70 threads years ago.... funny how time flies..
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post #655 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

The way I got started (and the way some others have as well I think) is to buy the projector and find your perfect size of screen by viewing it on a wall. Some people stay with the wall and use white (or a special DIY concocted paint color). You will definitely know what size is best once you watch the image for a while. And you might never need to clean the screen. Perhaps a light dusting, but the only thing you need to start is the projector and a bluray player. (Or dvd or htpc player).
My first screen was a solid screen of melamine painted with a white paint others in my avsforum group suggested. I still use that screen in my basement theater. Upstairs I have a manual pulldown screen. Both are 100' diagonal. They both work great. The projector will be the biggest help for you in deciding what to do next. And perhaps your room will be best served by a certain sized screen anyway. I went with the biggest that fit well in the room.

Good luck

I got a lot of small holes on both walls of mine, so I think I will definitely be seeing those holes if I project onto it, but we'll see. But you are right, I really shouldn't rush in buying a screen. I do mostly gaming and some movie/show watching , so I'm gonna spend a full evening or more doing that while projecting on the wall, and then I can decide what kind of screen would be good. By the way, a friend of mine who also just mostly plays games and watches movies on his plasma and soon to have projector, has bought an 16:10 screen, but shouldn't he be going for 16:9? I know very little what it all means, but ever since the 360 and PS3 came out, I was told to always use 16:9 on the hdtv. Or can we go for 16:10 just as well?

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Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

i too did this.... only I made screen from blackout cloth bought on ebay which led to me making about 6 of this for myself and freinds.... they were great cheap fixed screens stretched over a wood frame like a canvas painting.... then I went motorized...
you measure screen size diagonally btw if I understood the question correctly Moon walker....

Cyrano...
I believe I remember you from the old x1 or hd70 threads years ago.... funny how time flies..

Sounds like a good idea. But I am far from a handy person when it comes to these things. Years ago with my Epson projector I made a screen of my own, but this time I rather just by a good one.

Also....Is there a general 'rule' about how close you place the projector to the wall that you are projecting on? My plan is to put the projector behind and above my couch, so that's like 5 meters away from the wall it is projecting on. Would that be ok?
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post #656 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 06:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

I got a lot of small holes on both walls of mine, so I think I will definitely be seeing those holes if I project onto it, but we'll see. But you are right, I really shouldn't rush in buying a screen. I do mostly gaming and some movie/show watching , so I'm gonna spend a full evening or more doing that while projecting on the wall, and then I can decide what kind of screen would be good. By the way, a friend of mine who also just mostly plays games and watches movies on his plasma and soon to have projector, has bought an 16:10 screen, but shouldn't he be going for 16:9? I know very little what it all means, but ever since the 360 and PS3 came out, I was told to always use 16:9 on the hdtv. Or can we go for 16:10 just as well?
Sounds like a good idea. But I am far from a handy person when it comes to these things. Years ago with my Epson projector I made a screen of my own, but this time I rather just by a good one.

Also....Is there a general 'rule' about how close you place the projector to the wall that you are projecting on? My plan is to put the projector behind and above my couch, so that's like 5 meters away from the wall it is projecting on. Would that be ok?

You do want a 16:9 screen, Not a 16:10. Definitely.

Also, that link I have given you show exactly how large the image will be. From 5 meters about 138 inches diagonal. (3.5 meters) plus or minus a little because of the zoom. Check out the link. It is also a good site to check out the HD131XE specifications and manual.
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Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post


Cyrano...
I believe I remember you from the old x1 or hd70 threads years ago.... funny how time flies..

Hi augiedoggy. I remember you too. Ten years ago the great X1 started me in projection HT stuff. The HD 70 has a new lamp and looks pretty good. I am getting ready to mount the HD131XE where the X1 was. That X1 was such a huge change from big NTSC cathode ray imagery. It really made movies look like film.
I haven't fired up the HD131XE yet. I am looking forward to 1080!

Yes, time does fly.
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post #658 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

You do want a 16:9 screen, Not a 16:10. Definitely.

Also, that link I have given you show exactly how large the image will be. From 5 meters about 138 inches diagonal. (3.5 meters) plus or minus a little because of the zoom. Check out the link. It is also a good site to check out the HD131XE specifications and manual.

Thanks man. I will check it out again, it looked a little difficult because its not in my language, but that shouldn't have to be a problem. As for 16:10 and 16:9. What is the difference between the two? I'll definitely go for the latter, but I am curious what the real difference is. Unfortunetely I wont be able to project 138 inches on my wall, because my wall simply ain't that big. I did some measuring of my wall and ceiling and I can project for about 2.6 meters, which is still a damn nice size and should be a world of difference compared to how I was watching with my 60 inch plasma. This is the wall:

http://i41.tinypic.com/swbji0.jpg

As you can see it's the ceiling and wall to the right that keeps me from projecting bigger than 2.6. But it really should be more than enough, definitely from a 5 meter viewing distance, or less.
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post #659 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

I don't want to spend more than 200 on a projector screen, and I don't know if I can find motorized one for 200, but if not...a manual one will do fine. Do I need to clean the screen regularly? Or just like a HDTV once in a while?

And are Celexon and Optoma good brands for projector screens?
i paid like 140 bucks for my motorized screen a year ago on ebay...
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post #660 of 2873 Old 10-21-2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

Hi augiedoggy. I remember you too. Ten years ago the great X1 started me in projection HT stuff. The HD 70 has a new lamp and looks pretty good. I am getting ready to mount the HD131XE where the X1 was. That X1 was such a huge change from big NTSC cathode ray imagery. It really made movies look like film.
I haven't fired up the HD131XE yet. I am looking forward to 1080!

Yes, time does fly.
I started with the x1 and then the hd70..... The x1 was actually sold under many brands with many logos and spec differences.(I just found my notes on it today while cleaning along with the SP4800 firmware I flashed it with.
It took a while for people to catch on I think we will see history repeat itself with the hd131xe and 25e and 131x-hd25

My hd70 was my second setup and then hd65 and hd66....all of these are still in use but the x1... HUGE improvement for me with the hd131xe.
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