Optoma HD131Xe, HD (1080p), 2500 ANSI Lumens, 3D-Home Theater Projector - Sub $800 New Budget King? - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 2894 Old 11-06-2013, 07:37 AM
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How can a Red Mere cable possibly help? It's simple. When you have degradation of digital signal, you have to retransmit the lost packets(AKA the missing ones and zero's). If you don't retransmit them(and video doesn't generally get retransmitted, but don't know the error handling of HDMI), it's up to the device on the other end to fill in the blanks(this is done via macro-blocking, etc...). If your getting white "speckles" that is interference(static or other sources) being picked up as extra 1's, if you lose signal then that shows as a lost picture or macro-blocking(similar to satellite during heavy rain). Shielding prevents the speckles(just as a dark room helps black levels) and a signal booster helps with signal degradation(just as a high gain screen boosts brightness).

In other words, for a short run(less than 25'), it does nothing except possibly better shielding. For a long run(25'+), it can possibly help picture quality.

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post #992 of 2894 Old 11-06-2013, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreationz View Post

How can a Red Mere cable possibly help? It's simple. When you have degradation of digital signal, you have to retransmit the lost packets(AKA the missing ones and zero's). If you don't retransmit them(and video doesn't generally get retransmitted, but don't know the error handling of HDMI), it's up to the device on the other end to fill in the blanks(this is done via macro-blocking, etc...). If your getting white "speckles" that is interference(static or other sources) being picked up as extra 1's, if you lose signal then that shows as a lost picture or macro-blocking(similar to satellite during heavy rain). Shielding prevents the speckles(just as a dark room helps black levels) and a signal booster helps with signal degradation(just as a high gain screen boosts brightness).


In other words, for a short run(less than 25'), it does nothing except possibly better shielding. For a long run(25'+), it can possibly help picture quality.
Macroblocking is compression/stream related, not cable related. HDMI video is uncompressed video, and if macroblocking occurs, it is typically from the source itself, or a video processor, it will not be due to the HDMI cable, under any circumstances that I'm aware of. Sparklies really aren't positive interference, but dropouts in the data stream which manifest themselves as light and dark 'sparkles' on the screen. This typically occurs when a transmission is right at the edge of the data limits of the cable, and may include complete dropouts in the video if the data limit is exceeded at any point. It is not quite correct to say 1's and 0's are added, it is truly a drop of data in tiny sections which don't make it to the display.

Redmere won't help with color or quality in comparison to any other cable which is delivering the digital signal over HDMI. It doesn't change, boost, or accentuate colors. It is an active cable element which solidifies the transmission of digital video over HDMI to ensure a clean signal from point to point. Basically, it helps to eliminate sparklies and dropouts, but won't change one other thing.

This isn't analog, these cables tend to work, or not work, but won't do what analog cables did when they were used all the time.

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post #993 of 2894 Old 11-06-2013, 02:29 PM
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It was partially an assumption on my part the video processor in the projector my be asking(HDMI is two way) for less data and the source might respond by limiting the color bandwidth. Without seeing both a visual comparison and looking at the actual data, there is no way to know for sure. Thanks for the info.

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post #994 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonyad View Post

Where did you read Monster? Monoprice however is a reputable company for cables. Just do a search for redmere on site and you'll find plenty of info. However redmere is more important for long runs of cable. I don't know about the quality of that other brand of cable listed, but comparing a 25 foot cable to a 40 foot cable isn't quite equitable.
Wikipedia
"RM1689 IC — a semiconductor device which runs on very little power, so it can draw the current it needs through the HDMI signal itself. It allows HDMI cables to be manufactured at lower cost with the same results as regular HDMI cables. By using a lot less copper, it allows for thinner and more flexible cables.[1] This was demonstrated in the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.[citation needed]

VerifEye— a cable test platform.

On 27 March 2009, RedMere teamed up with Monster, another manufacturer of audio/video cables to create ultra-thin HDMI cable that would transfer data at up to 10.2 Gb/s.[2][3]"
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post #995 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Macroblocking is compression/stream related, not cable related. HDMI video is uncompressed video, and if macroblocking occurs, it is typically from the source itself, or a video processor, it will not be due to the HDMI cable, under any circumstances that I'm aware of. Sparklies really aren't positive interference, but dropouts in the data stream which manifest themselves as light and dark 'sparkles' on the screen. This typically occurs when a transmission is right at the edge of the data limits of the cable, and may include complete dropouts in the video if the data limit is exceeded at any point. It is not quite correct to say 1's and 0's are added, it is truly a drop of data in tiny sections which don't make it to the display.

Redmere won't help with color or quality in comparison to any other cable which is delivering the digital signal over HDMI. It doesn't change, boost, or accentuate colors. It is an active cable element which solidifies the transmission of digital video over HDMI to ensure a clean signal from point to point. Basically, it helps to eliminate sparklies and dropouts, but won't change one other thing.

This isn't analog, these cables tend to work, or not work, but won't do what analog cables did when they were used all the time.
that was my understanding of it too.... and also makes sense if you go by the Wikipedia quote I posted above... actually by that quote above a better shielded proper gauge hdmi cable is still the better and more reliable way to go over a cheaper cable with a booster chip in it that could fail... Right?

I paid like $22 for my very heavy 35ft 24awg hdmi 1.4 cable but so far it works great with no issues... my 11 year old dvi to hdmi cable just couldnt handle 1080p well the new one works great for everything including 3d and the darbee which is fussy about such things.
I know OTA digital transmissions will give the macroblock effect when they are weak but I didnt think HDMI was the same.

One thing I'll share that I did learn in the darbee section. A 6ft cable works more reliably than a 3 ft hdmi cable with less transmission issues.... It sounds backwards but its not.
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post #996 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 06:09 AM
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For an overall look at "active" cables(one with a chip in them):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_cable

The Red Mere chip does "adaptive equalization" and  "de-skew".

Adaptive equalization is a form of error correction via equalization(signal cleaning) that is "adaptive"(works with multiple signal rates). When transmitting any digital data both sides have to operate at the same speed exactly or parts of the signal can be lost. This is caused by bits interfering with other bits in the transmission. The closer together the bits are(IE the faster the data rate) the more powerful a signal needs to be to compensate. Adapative equalization overcomes this by "cleaning" the signal. This ensures all the 1's and 0's are properly evenly spaced so they all get read properly(This all helps with sparklies, and dropped pixels).

Note: A symbol is one baud or one signal change.

This is the type of equalization used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_equalizer

This is what it does:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalizer_%28communications%29

This is what it fixes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersymbol_interference

This is for reference to understand the above:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_%28data%29

De-skew in an active cable ensures that the signals after being "equalized" have the start and stop of each wave(each symbol change/baud or bit) at the same timing.

The summary: The Red Mere chip cleans and aligns the signals coming across the HDMI cable. This helps reduce sparklies, jitter, ensures full bandwidth, etc... the difference over a long cable run CAN be noticeable.

It can affect the color bandwidth as a cable may not get reported as "high speed" if a high speed signal is sent and not read properly(AKA a bad handshake due to signal loss similar to a poor modem connection in the old days not giving the full baud rate). If a lower speed is detected, a reduced bit rate may be used resulting in color loss(AKA 14bit deep color vs 16 bit, etc...). This however shouldn't be an issue with a quality passive "high speed" cable on a short run(as it SHOULD meet the full 10.2Gbps standard).

P.S. Just like analog digital uses waves, but the shape of the waveform is different looking "squared" vs a sine wave(Digital signals operate similar to AM radio, but this signal amplitude can vary multiple times per wave to pack in more data and achieve higher data rates over longer distances and with less power).

P.P.S. Red Mere could also be indicated if using a passive HDMI switching device as that can cause signal loss as well.

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post #997 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 07:49 AM
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I bought this 40ft cable and I don't have a problem so far. I have ps3, xbox, dvr cable box and wdtv live.
I am now looking for 3d glasses and need some advices.
Should I use dpl-link or a transmitter?
Thanks.

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post #998 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 07:50 AM
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Forgot link for cable
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069SP62E/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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post #999 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngvuanh View Post

Forgot link for cable
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069SP62E/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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Just a heads up, You can just hit the pencil and edit or add to your post without double posting.

I use dlp link because I had the hardware... if I would do it again it will be RF...
that cable may be fine...
kreations thanks for the info.

Whats the best way to tell if you are in fact getting the intended color bit quality from one end to the display device??
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post #1000 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 08:18 AM
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Looks like we'll be getting a review on the HD131xe soon. Projectorreviews.com shows they have it in house under the "Next Projector Reviews to Publish" section. http://www.projectorreviews.com/

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #1001 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 08:45 AM
 
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Are there any empirical facts or measurements that can be used to prove the superiority of RF over DLP link?
Or is it just a subjective judgment that has to be made. Perhaps we could have a poll by those who use both versions. (But I don't want to complicate this.)
For me it was just cheaper and simpler to go the DLP link route and I have found the results to be quite satisfactory. But if RF looks better well I want to do RF (someday - right now 3D looks great.)
The criticism that I heard about DLP-link is the brightness it adds to the screen however my Estar ESG601 glasses seem to really completely cut down the extra brightness and make the blacks be the same as the 2d picture would have been. I know this is purely subjective.
I would say if money is a consideration do DLP-Link; the transmitter is already there and the glasses are cheaper. (But ask others about which glasses to avoid. Estar seem to get good ratings. As do others. You want glasses that will darken enough to counteract the added brightness. This thread has some posts on the subject a search of RF & DLP-Link glasses should reveal info.)
I would say that the preference is for RF, but I am digging my DLP-Links so much that I can't Not recommend them. I do recommend them.
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post #1002 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 09:10 AM
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Cyrano:  Based on your posts alone I almost went for DLP-Link, but as you mentioned more people talk about how great the RF Sync are and those that did a side by side comparrison said there was no doublt the RF looked better.

 

I need 5 pairs so I was leaning towards DLP-Link due to cost, but then when it came down to it, it was the difference of $20 a pair.   The cheapest DLP-Link recommended were around the $40 mark (after the $10 price increase), I know someone mentioned another two pairs that were bought from Canada, but I had never heard their brand names mentioned before.

 

Anyway, I figured I'd buy two EStar RF pairs to start off, one with the started kit (RF transmitter) at $70 and the other without for $60 on Amazon.  I waited until this week to place my order since I had to find out exactly which ceiling mount I was going to need.   Anyway, to my surprise, both sets of glasses mentioned above on Amazon had $5 off.

 

Now I have to drive to the US to pick this stuff up.   Amazon.com doesn't ship this stuff to Canada, and says to buy from Amazon.ca, but of course these glasses aren't available on Amazon.ca.. grrrr

 

No matter, the border is only an hour away, and I have a few things to pick up on my way down there.

 

Oineh Ceiling Mount:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AAL7XA4/ref=ox_ya_os_product

 

Matt White 16:9 Screen:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150-16-9-HDTV-MOVIE-SCREEN-PROJECTION-SCREEN-PROJECTOR-SCREEN-MATERIAL-DLP-LCD-/300643412902?pt=US_Projection_Screens_Material&hash=item45ffbe6ba6#ht_4461wt_1125

 

EStar RF 3D Glasses:

http://www.amazon.com/EStar-America-ESG6100-RF-3D-Starter/dp/B00D39AUCI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383844207&sr=1-1&keywords=Estar+RF

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post #1003 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 09:22 AM
 
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stingrr:
Let us know how good it looks.
Someday I will do RF. My 3D looks so good I can't justify an "experimental" expense.
My Estar ESG601s were $30 each.(2 weeks ago - now they cost more.) There are cheaper DLP-Link glasses.
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post #1004 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 09:37 AM
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Proper calibration and looking at gradients is the only way I know of. It also depends on the display device and whether or not it is capable of supporting "Deep Color" or not(for the Optoma HD131Xe no info is given in either the specs, the brochure, or the manual AFAIK).

For more info on "Deep Color": http://www.abccables.com/info-hdmi-deep-color-.html

Side Note: As of 2010(about a 4 years after 1.3 came out), there was no Deep Color media save gaming on the PS3. It was still all 24 bit "True Color". I'm not sure where things stand currently.

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post #1005 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingrr View Post

Cyrano:  Based on your posts alone I almost went for DLP-Link, but as you mentioned more people talk about how great the RF Sync are and those that did a side by side comparrison said there was no doublt the RF looked better.

I need 5 pairs so I was leaning towards DLP-Link due to cost, but then when it came down to it, it was the difference of $20 a pair.   The cheapest DLP-Link recommended were around the $40 mark (after the $10 price increase), I know someone mentioned another two pairs that were bought from Canada, but I had never heard their brand names mentioned before.

Anyway, I figured I'd buy two EStar RF pairs to start off, one with the started kit (RF transmitter) at $70 and the other without for $60 on Amazon.  I waited until this week to place my order since I had to find out exactly which ceiling mount I was going to need.   Anyway, to my surprise, both sets of glasses mentioned above on Amazon had $5 off.

Now I have to drive to the US to pick this stuff up.   Amazon.com doesn't ship this stuff to Canada, and says to buy from Amazon.ca, but of course these glasses aren't available on Amazon.ca.. grrrr

No matter, the border is only an hour away, and I have a few things to pick up on my way down there.

Oineh Ceiling Mount:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AAL7XA4/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Matt White 16:9 Screen:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150-16-9-HDTV-MOVIE-SCREEN-PROJECTION-SCREEN-PROJECTOR-SCREEN-MATERIAL-DLP-LCD-/300643412902?pt=US_Projection_Screens_Material&hash=item45ffbe6ba6#ht_4461wt_1125

EStar RF 3D Glasses:
http://www.amazon.com/EStar-America-ESG6100-RF-3D-Starter/dp/B00D39AUCI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383844207&sr=1-1&keywords=Estar+RF
I'm ten minutes from the border in new york by the falls... smile.gif I think the reason the estar glasses arent avaliable in canada is they are marketed under a Canadian brand name there.... but all three brands (optoma, estar and whatever the canadian version is) are all made by Bit cauldren so I've been told....
personally I'm enjoying not knowing what I'm missing....the price on the 5 pair of glasses I have range from 11 to 20 dollars a pair and they all have about the same picture quality.... blacks look good with the glasses on but the contrast does seem crushed I'm not sure how much if any better is would be with RF though.
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post #1006 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy 
Just a heads up, You can just hit the pencil and edit or add to your post without double posting.
I used this app for several forums and I can edit my post on other forums, but I couldn't find the pencil for edit in this forum.
Anyway, thanks for reply.

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post #1007 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 02:12 PM
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I just picked this from CBIusa and paid the $110 duty......... and still cheaper than buying in Canada.

Seems sharper/clearer than my hd20. I used the grid pattern to see if there was any out of focus issue but I didn't notice any.

At first I though it did but it was just the reflection of the boarder of my screen due to improper zoom on my end.

I will keep default settings for the next coyote of days than will try calibrating further.
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post #1008 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 02:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

I just picked this from CBIusa and paid the $110 duty......... and still cheaper than buying in Canada.

Seems sharper/clearer than my hd20. I used the grid pattern to see if there was any out of focus issue but I didn't notice any.

At first I though it did but it was just the reflection of the boarder of my screen due to improper zoom on my end.

I will keep default settings for the next coyote of days than will try calibrating further.
(something that helped me) The menu can be placed at all four corners of the image; it is a better way to find out the focus.
And it is better to zoom out the image all the way making the image as large as possible so that you use all of the lens.
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post #1009 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 03:13 PM
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Watched another movie on Netflix today, ít's definitely something else to just lay down on the couch, bulldog next to me, put my feet up, and watch some nice movies on 100+ inch. And even with very average black levels at the moment, still highly enjoyable and such a better experience than a 60 inch plasma. I bought dark purple paint today and i will paint my walls and ceiling tomorrow. This should definitely bring a nice improvement. Even more for pq and other things when i eventually buy a screen as well. Will post impressions and photos tomorrow or in the weekend.
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post #1010 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

I just picked this from CBIusa and paid the $110 duty......... and still cheaper than buying in Canada.

Seems sharper/clearer than my hd20. I used the grid pattern to see if there was any out of focus issue but I didn't notice any.

At first I though it did but it was just the reflection of the boarder of my screen due to improper zoom on my end.

I will keep default settings for the next coyote of days than will try calibrating further.

Will Optoma Canada honor warranty for a unit bought in US? A lot of companies will not... I hope they will in case you have soft corner issues and you want to fix it under warranty...
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post #1011 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 03:18 PM
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They did for my hd20. The corners look fine now so I think in in the clear.

Being 10 minutes from the boarder it's not an issue anyways.
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post #1012 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 03:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

They did for my hd20. The corners look fine now so I think in in the clear.

Being 10 minutes from the boarder it's not an issue anyways.
Well I was just writing in reference to the HD131xe And I thought you were perhaps writing because you were concerned about the focusing issues with it. My hd131xe has a very sensitive focus but seems to be okay. I am using it with the zoom narrowed. When I widened it all the way open it was hard to get upper left and lower right in focus at same time. (a test in case I go with a larger screen someday.) Seems okay though. There has been concern over this with the hd131xe.
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post #1013 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingrr View Post

I need 5 pairs so I was leaning towards DLP-Link due to cost, but then when it came down to it, it was the difference of $20 a pair.   The cheapest DLP-Link recommended were around the $40 mark (after the $10 price increase), I know someone mentioned another two pairs that were bought from Canada, but I had never heard their brand names mentioned before.[/URL]

These are $29 each if you buy two:
http://www.amazon.com/DLP-LINK-3D-Glasses-Projectors-Mitsubishi/dp/B004G2VJM6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383872771&sr=8-1&keywords=DLP+link+3D+glasses

They're the same as the Monoprice ones for $35-$40 each, just different names on the side.
BTW my wife prefers the $20 Sainsonics, says they don't sit as close so her eyelashes don't hit the glass.
I prefer the 3DTVCorp, more comfortable for my face and more "enveloping".
Tron in 3D last night was AWESOME.

We've now got 6 pairs of DLP glasses: 1 Monoprice, 2 3DTVCopr from Amazon, 1 Sainsonic from Amazon and 2 more from an overseas Ebay seller. So ~$160 total, for RF link the same number would have been over $300 so you're right ~$22 more per pair for RF.
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post #1014 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 05:41 PM
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I personally don't have money pouring out of my ass, but I would be grateful for the money I saved by buying this projector and spend a little extra on the RF glasses. You might be happy with DLP link if that is all you know, but once you compare the two it's no contest. It's worth the extra bucks.
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post #1015 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark17 View Post

Will Optoma Canada honor warranty for a unit bought in US? A lot of companies will not... I hope they will in case you have soft corner issues and you want to fix it under warranty...
I have out of focus corners, especially, top left corner. I bring menu up (center) to adjust focus.
I don't know if mine has the issue you said and need a replacement.
Thanks for advices.
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post #1016 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 06:06 PM
 
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Found this post in this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397362/rf-vs-dlp-link-glasses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Interesting HD83 review with pictures from both glasses

http://www.myav.com.tw/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=20451140

2d


dlp link


rf


2d


dlp


rf
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post #1017 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

once you compare the two it's no contest. It's worth the extra bucks.
I'm with ya on that. For some strange reason I ordered an RF pair and a DLP pair. They both work individually, however, I have been unable to make them both work at the same time. The HD131xe will run VESA (RF) or DLP but not RF and DLP at the same time.

My 3D settings are as follows:

3D Mode= Vesa
2D/3D=3D
3D Format=Frame sequential
3D Sync invert=On

I ran the manual performance tuning from the joystick, then did a screencap of the Estar Performance and Upgrade Utility. The Utility reports that I have the Duty Cycle set to Max 120%, and the delay is 32600. This combination creates a frequency of 119.998. The picture looks a little blue to me without the glasses on, but the football players jump out of the screen and end up on the living room floor. (yea I am exaggerating)
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post #1018 of 2894 Old 11-07-2013, 11:38 PM
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post #1019 of 2894 Old 11-08-2013, 05:17 AM
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I do believe your right..
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post #1020 of 2894 Old 11-08-2013, 05:22 AM
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I own 2 pairs and I know someone else on these forums who is happy owner too. They look exactly the same as Optomas. The only difference is glossy frame and different logo on them.
They work excellent with optoma RF transiver.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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