new budget or second hand expensive projector? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dovercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
How do the current budget projectors compare to the old more expensive projectors from around 2005? At what point does the technology get so dated it is simply out classed by modern units.

I have just bought a second hand ProjectionDesign F3 SXGA+ for £200 about $300 and after cleaning the colorwheels and adjusting source correction color RGB gain/bias controls am very impressed by it, but wandering if the current crop of budget projectors are even better which their specs would seem to imply, but seems difficult to believe given the relative new cost the ProjectionDesign F3 SXGA+ when first sold Dec 2004 - Apr 2007 MSRP $19,000 + lens.

ProjectionDesign F3 SXGA+
(looks to be the same or very similar to Digital Projection dVision sx+, Christie DS+65. ProjectionDesign was the OEM for these)

Dual 250 watt lamps for claimed 5,500 Lumens to less than 1,000 Lumens depending on lamp and iris settings. Lamps adjustable to enable brightness matching with other projectors.
2,000 hrs dual 100% to 8,000 hrs single relay 80% lamp option
Fan noise unsure some specs say 30dB others state 35-45dB it is suprisingly not annoying even at a very short distance due to lowish pitch of the sound.

DualArch design. Dual lamps, dual color wheels, dual light formatters. Patented design claiming about 70% higher light efficiency than other similar systems.

3 different color wheel options
RGBW 2xspeed, my projector has this option. I do not however see rainbows with this projector but I am not very DLP rainbow sensitive.
RGB+small white 2xspeed,
RGB 3xspeed.

0.95" SXGA+ DarkChip3 with motorized adjustable but fixed iris. F number 2.10 – 6.5 for claimed 1,000 to 7,500:1 native contrast depending on iris setting.
SXGA+ native resolution for 1400x1050 4:3 1400x788 16:9 or 1280x720 16:9
Can accept up to 720p 1080i claims to be HDCP compliant over DVI but do not currently have a blu-ray player.
DCDi by Faroudja de-interlacing and video processing.
It has slots to accept x-port boards for geometry/shading/edge blending at up to 30bit color. Am unsure if that means it has 30bit color processing.

6 lens options from 0.8:1 to 7.0:1 throw and has motorized lens shift, horizontal shift +/-90% Vertical shift +/-105% along with motorized zoom, focus, iris.

The lens option I have is the EN15 wide angle lens throw ratio 1.2:1 no zoom.
Focal length 23.98mm (distance DMD chip to focus point in lens)
MTF 38 lp/mm (center 60%, corner 50%)
Optical distortion <1.04% at 8.2ft (amount of pillow or barrel distortion)
Diameter of lens 148mm
dovercat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 06:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr.G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,347
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 104
I don't think there is any question that's it is a well engineered projector and seems to be intended more for an auditorium. At $300 it's quite a deal, others can be found on eBay for much more. It's only dated by its inputs, max resolution and 4:3 aspect ratio.

Enjoy!

All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Movies

Mr.G is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 07:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
airscapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 99
I to just bought a used Older High end HT projector and feel it is much better in many ways than some of the new entry level or even mid range units. The new stuff is cheaper, but that price point comes at the expense of Lens, build and electronic quality. They manufacture no longer need to design their own electronics, they use generic stuff that is "Good enough" for consumers. As was stated, the ProjectionDesign F3 SXGA looks like a medium/ large venue machine for a church or lecture hall and may not be suitable for use in HT do to higher noise level 4 segment 2x color wheel speed, and 4:3 native aspect ratio. You seem to be very happy so enjoy!
airscapes is online now  
post #4 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 08:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AV_Integrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
Posts: 2,798
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 252
Projection Design typically has different color wheels available which can be changed in the field. So, it is typical to be able to get/use a RGB/RGB color wheel in the same projector which has a 4 segment color wheel in it. Depends on the make model.

I do believe that it certainly is a tradeoff with older vs. newer. A top shelf projector brand like Projection Design or Digital Projection, have many attributes to overall design and build quality that put them several steps ahead of other manufacturers, and the phenomenally slow pace at which DLP has managed to get any new technology to the market has really made the older models more limited by other technologies rather than the chips in use.

So here are the plusses:
1. You get much higher build quality.
2. You get far superior optics (all glass, top grade glass, etc.)
3. You (may) get a projector with better brightness capability.
4. Lens shift functionality not typically found on new, cheap projectors

Here at the negatives:
1. No warranty
2. Phenomenally expensive replacement lamps
3. Very high cost of repair if anything fails
4. Doesn't handle 1080p
5. No 3D (not that this matters to many)
6. May not be fully compatible with current DHCP standards
7. Not actually a 1080p, or even a 16:9 native projector

Tie (potentially)
1. Image processing - While Faroudja used to be the bomb, it no longer is. The chip sets have just gotten so much better on all projectors that decent to good image processing is standard, and many times better processing is available.
2. Noise
3. Color accuracy



My big issue is that a proper replacement lamp likely costs twice what you paid for that projector and that projector needs two of those lamps, not one, so it almost is a throwaway of $300 if a lamp fails.
My next biggest issue is the fact that it isn't actually a 1080p projector. I'm sorry, but this isn't 2005 anymore and not having a 1080p projector on a 100"+ screen is just a bad call. That's a huge negative.
Finally, the lack of warranty and cost of work really strikes me as a negative. I mean, this is like buying a 8 year old Porsche... It may work well, but even a basic oil change is gonna run you over $100 a pop... the bigger repairs will beat you down hard!

At $300 it was quite the deal, but since it has no HDMI and isn't 1080p, I wouldn't have touched it personally.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
AV_Integrated is online now  
post #5 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dovercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Thanks for the reply airscapes


I am using it short throw 1.2:1 on to a 120" 4:3 glass bead screen, although I will upgrade to a 135" or slightly larger at some point. The lens shift enables me to ideally position the projector for the glass bead screen. I have the projector about 1ft behind and 1ft above my head and surprisingly don't find the fan noise loud at all I think due to the projector's bulk and I assume a very large internal fan so low pitch, the sound drops off very rapidly with distance, and it vents heat out the back. It is less noisy than my Mitsubishi XD460U.

I knew I would be OK with 2x DLP rainbows as my Mitsubishi XD460U is 2x and I don't have a problem with it except on test screens of white lines on black. The F3 XGA version had the option of RGBRGB 2xspeed for 4xspeed, I think the F3 SXGA+ was limited to 2x RGBW 2x RGBw 3xRGB by the available SXGA+ DMD chip driver at the time. I assume since I don't have a problem with rainbows 2x speed is better than faster as slower speed gives more time for the mirror so less dithering noise and greater color lumens due to less spoke off time.

The room is width 9ft6in limited so 4x3 gives me the biggest image possible and it can do wide-screen at 1400x788 which I guess should get most of the horizontal resolution of 1080i TV channels and it can do 1280x720 with 1:1 pixel mapping and claims to be HDCP compliant. I like to watch old films, TV shows and pop videos so 4:3 to me still has some use. At some point I will get blu-ray.

I am most happy. The color looks extremely life like and with the high lumens/high contrast it also plenty of image depth and pop. It is a substantial improvement over my Mitsubhish XD460U, particularly in life like color rendition. I particularly like being able to set it up for the best lumens/contrast compromise with the lamp and iris options.
dovercat is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dovercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Thanks for the reply Mr. G.


It does indeed appear well engineered. Very solid construction and designed for 24/7 operation. I don't think it was just designed for auditorium use as it has the option of short throw lenses and has can be run at less than 1,000 lumens, single lamp at 80% power and iris reduced for higher native contrast.

In the UK ebay they had several put up for sale at the same time at £200 ($300) each, plus a few that had faults at £50 ($77) each. At least one of the working ones needed to be relisted as no one bid on it the first time round. I was suprised how a DLP projector with such a high spec could be so unpopular. I guess modern projectors are according to their specs superior. Higher resolution 1080x1920. Higher dynamic contrast using dynamic lamp dimming or dynamic iris. Faster color wheel or no color wheel. More vibrant color with RGBYMC color wheels, or using laser and LEDs for purer color.
dovercat is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dovercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Projection Design typically has different color wheels available which can be changed in the field. So, it is typical to be able to get/use a RGB/RGB color wheel in the same projector which has a 4 segment color wheel in it. Depends on the make model.
I will not be trying that anytime soon as the projector needs a pass code to access the service menu, and for a different color wheel I think needs different software installed. I think the F3 SXGA+ is not compatible with a 2xRGBRGB for 4x, but going from 2xRGBW to 3xRGB so faster color wheel and with white peaking off higher lumens, would be nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

I do believe that it certainly is a tradeoff with older vs. newer. A top shelf projector brand like Projection Design or Digital Projection, have many attributes to overall design and build quality that put them several steps ahead of other manufacturers, and the phenomenally slow pace at which DLP has managed to get any new technology to the market has really made the older models more limited by other technologies rather than the chips in use.

So here are the plusses:
1. You get much higher build quality.
It makes my previous projector a Mitsubishi XD460U look like a toy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

2. You get far superior optics (all glass, top grade glass, etc.)
As I am using it very short-throw, wide-angle I assume lens optics are even more crucial to picture quality.
The lens was originally extra and quite expensive in its own right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

3. You (may) get a projector with better brightness capability.
After the colorwheel clean it is plenty bright enough for me I am using it single lamp eco mode with the iris reduced some what from the default position to increase contrast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

4. Lens shift functionality not typically found on new, cheap projectors
Since I am using a glass bead screen having lens shift is advantagous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Here at the negatives:
1. No warranty
I was covered if it turned out to not work. At £200 for the projector, I will just replace it if it brakes, but it seems built to last.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

2. Phenomenally expensive replacement lamps
The lamp housings have micro-chips in them which keep track of usage hours. The current lamps have each done just over 1,200 hrs in eco mode. So in single lamp eco mode I have 5,600hrs before in theory I should replace the lamps. I also have a few 250watt lamps for a different projector and expect I could just replacethe bulbs in the housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

3. Very high cost of repair if anything fails
If it brakes I will just replace it.
It is designed to survive professional use running 24/7 for years, with only lamps being changed every 2,000 to 8,000hrs depending on mode and a fan check/maintance every 7,500hrs.
It is overspeced for mechanical wear and cooling. The dualarch design also gives it some built in redundancy.
It is filter free with a completed sealed against dust light path, with the exception of the front of the colorwheels facing the lamps.
The London Trasport Museum has F3 SXGA+ projectors in continual usage, for over 5 years, and is one of many museums, gallaries, etc. That use projectiondesign professional projectors. It is also designed to be used as a buisness rental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

4. Doesn't handle 1080p
I will eventually buy a blu-ray player. Is 1080p substantially better than 1080i displayed at 1400x788 or 720p displayed with 1:1 pixel mapping?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

5. No 3D (not that this matters to many)
I have no imediate plans to go 3D but if I did two of them can be stacked for passive 3D at up to 11,000 Lumens. I think in theory even four can be stacked for 3D at up to 22,000 Lumens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

6. May not be fully compatible with current DHCP standards
What is DHCP?
The projector claims to be HDCP compliant over DVI, I assume if it turns out to have a problem I could use an offboard device to strip the HDCP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

7. Not actually a 1080p, or even a 16:9 native projector
You said the optics were vastly superior. What difference would that make to perceived picture quality vs higher resolution DMD.
It can do 720p with 1:1 pixel mapping, and can scale 720p or 1080i to 788x1400.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Tie (potentially)
1. Image processing - While Faroudja used to be the bomb, it no longer is. The chip sets have just gotten so much better on all projectors that decent to good image processing is standard, and many times better processing is available.
Would there be much improved image qualilty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

2. Noise
The claims of being 30dB or 35dB/45dB depending on the documentation had me worried and I was pleasantly suprised. I don't find the fan noise problem with the projector 1ft behind and 1ft abover my head. DigitalProjection's dVision SX+ which appears to be a rebadged ProjectionDesign F3 SXGA+ claims 28dB. It sounds quieter and lower pitch on dual lamp high mode than my Mitsubishi XD460U on eco-mode that claims 30dB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

3. Color accuracy
I find the image impressively life-like.
Does the new technology of alternate light sources like lasers or LEDs and more color wheel segments like RGBYMC make a substantial difference to picture quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

My big issue is that a proper replacement lamp likely costs twice what you paid for that projector and that projector needs two of those lamps, not one, so it almost is a throwaway of $300 if a lamp fails.
It can run in dual or single lamp mode and came with two lamps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

My next biggest issue is the fact that it isn't actually a 1080p projector. I'm sorry, but this isn't 2005 anymore and not having a 1080p projector on a 100"+ screen is just a bad call. That's a huge negative.
How noticeable would the difference between 788x1400 or 720x1280 and 1080x1920 be? Do sources have details that small and that are visible in moving colour images and if they do does seeing them make that much difference to perceived picture quality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Finally, the lack of warranty and cost of work really strikes me as a negative. I mean, this is like buying a 8 year old Porsche... It may work well, but even a basic oil change is gonna run you over $100 a pop... the bigger repairs will beat you down hard!
This projector is built for reliability, and at £200 I will replace it if it brakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

$300 it was quite the deal, but since it has no HDMI and isn't 1080p, I wouldn't have touched it personally.
It has DVI so HDMI to DVI cable gives HDMI.
It can do 1:1 pixel mapping of 720p or scale a 720p or 1080i image up to 788x1400.
Is 1080p resolution that big of a deal as far as picture quality?
Would 1080p vs SXGA+ more than offset any advantages
dovercat is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 08:59 PM
Senior Member
 
hotjt133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 334
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 30
I would say a 720p high end PJ with very good lens, should be on-par with a newer, average quality 1080p, in movie viewing. It might be less sharp in fine details but also has less distortion and uneven brightness or focus issue.

But if it also needs to be a HTPC monitor, 1080p is significantly better than 720p in desktop resolution and fonts. I would never consider anything less than 1080p.
hotjt133 is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 10:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AV_Integrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
Posts: 2,798
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 252
You kinda just picked all my stuff apart to justify why you are happy... There is no reason to. I am not terribly picky about my video, but I noticed a big jump in quality when I went to 1080p, and going from an older 1080p projector to a new one which cost far less didn't really diminish the experience. I just think that there are a lot of values out there which only run about $800 right now and include a new lamp, new warranty, etc. etc. Which is why I would not buy something like that if I were buying right now.

Since you also are not currently buying, but have already bought, then you should enjoy what you have, but if it breaks, then it is a throwaway of money and, unfortunately, they don't warranty lamps to 6,000 hours generally, so it's just a risk that you've decided you are okay with taking - so enjoy it. For that matter, I hope you get years of use out of it and it does make you very happy while you own it, because it is certainly a very high class level of projector.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
AV_Integrated is online now  
post #10 of 14 Old 09-01-2013, 10:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 139
It's hard to say in such general terms as that person wanted a light cannon for 3D stacking, different application.
However, I agree with AV_Integrated, I think most people (maybe not the OP), but most people would be better off buying a new or "almost new" refurb from a couple years back.

The sharpest projector under $1500 is probably the Benq w1070 and it is on sale for $799, but I can't imagine finding a really good projector for $350. I picked up a refurb Viewsonic Pro8200 for $450 a couple years back mostly as a novelty (because it was so low-priced), that was a steal considering that projector retails for $700 to $800 still today. The funny thing about the Pro8200 is the lens is VERY uniform just like the Benq w7000 (which I also own), but the Pro8200 (at least on my firmware version) does not do proper pixel mapping, so it takes a major hit to sharpness for that alone.

On some of these projectors, the lens isn't really the problem, it seems to be more commonly either pixel or scaling bugs, or something in the assembly process of the lens assembly elements causing non-uniform focus. It seems the MFR's love to pick one or the other problem, it's like they give you a perfectly uniform lens and then a crappy bugged out pixel mapping error scaling system.

For instance, on the cheapo Viewsonic, the Lens is actually pretty superb as far as uniformity, but the darn software has the pixel mapping bug completely negating the uniformity of the lens. However, the Benq w7000 and JVC RS-45 have low-end lenses (well not CHEAP-O), but I mean definitely not nearly top-of-the-line, yet these are 2 of the sharpest projectors in their class under $5000, and they do that from the lens assembly reflecting light uniformly onto the screen. Something many / most projector models seem to have trouble with, especially on the lower-end. It's upsetting to still see projectors with pixel mapping bugs, I wish they'd be done with that already, no excuse for that crud in this day and age.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 09-02-2013, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dovercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

You kinda just picked all my stuff apart to justify why you are happy... There is no reason to.
Sorry I had insomina.
dovercat is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 09-02-2013, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dovercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It's hard to say in such general terms as that person wanted a light cannon for 3D stacking, different application.
I am not using it for 3D.
What made it desirable to me was the specs in comparison to the Mitsubishi XD460U. So maybe I am starting from a position of low expectations in comparsion to people who have current 1080p home cinema projectors.

Being a light cannon with lens shift gives me the ability due to lots more lumens than needed and glass bead screen in a black room to use its iris to increase native contrast.

With a user adjustable lamp power 200watt to 500watt with a high efficiency light path and a user adjustable iris F2.1 to F6.5. This projector enables the user to choose the trade off between lumens and contrast.

For ANSI checkerboard contrast the limitation I believe is lens quality, it has as you said vastly superior optics which I think is even more important for very short-throw wide-angle projection. The wide-angle lens also has no zoom whiche means less lens elements so less lens internal light scatter and more ANSI checkerboard contrast.

I think to achieve high MTF perceived image sharpness and depth from a DLP DMD chip projector is also highly reliant on lens quality and size of DMD chip. This projector has large DMD chip size and high quality lens. So I expect it has high image MTF.

Then there is the quality of the the color the ability to produce highly saturated colors and accurate colors. Color saturation is I think dependent on color wheel color segments. While, color wheel the color and greyscale procesing I think determines color accuracy. Once source correction color adjusted I have found it very impressive with its color saturation, colorfulness and naturalness and depth producing extremely life-like images. ProjectionDesign have good pedigree they make projectors for use by film studios in post production colourisation and grading work and the F3 SXGA+ was in its day the world’s most powerful single chip DLP projector and was designed to meet the ever increasing requirements in professional imaging solutions.

I am unsure how it compares to modern budget home cinema projectors. As they are built for home cinmea so presumably should have good image quality and they do boast higher specs, but i don't know how or if they manage better performance. I would of thought the way to achieve such things are cost limited, unless technology has advanced significantly with new DMD chips and DMD chip controllers, light sources including dynamic ligth sources, colorwheels with secondary colors and NDG or alternate ligth sources like LED or laser, video processing and the advantage of 1:1 pixel mapping at 1080p, dynamic irises, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

However, I agree with AV_Integrated, I think most people (maybe not the OP), but most people would be better off buying a new or "almost new" refurb from a couple years back.

The sharpest projector under $1500 is probably the Benq w1070 and it is on sale for $799, but I can't imagine finding a really good projector for $350. I picked up a refurb Viewsonic Pro8200 for $450 a couple years back mostly as a novelty (because it was so low-priced), that was a steal considering that projector retails for $700 to $800 still today. The funny thing about the Pro8200 is the lens is VERY uniform just like the Benq w7000 (which I also own), but the Pro8200 (at least on my firmware version) does not do proper pixel mapping, so it takes a major hit to sharpness for that alone.

On some of these projectors, the lens isn't really the problem, it seems to be more commonly either pixel or scaling bugs, or something in the assembly process of the lens assembly elements causing non-uniform focus. It seems the MFR's love to pick one or the other problem, it's like they give you a perfectly uniform lens and then a crappy bugged out pixel mapping error scaling system.

For instance, on the cheapo Viewsonic, the Lens is actually pretty superb as far as uniformity, but the darn software has the pixel mapping bug completely negating the uniformity of the lens. However, the Benq w7000 and JVC RS-45 have low-end lenses (well not CHEAP-O), but I mean definitely not nearly top-of-the-line, yet these are 2 of the sharpest projectors in their class under $5000, and they do that from the lens assembly reflecting light uniformly onto the screen. Something many / most projector models seem to have trouble with, especially on the lower-end. It's upsetting to still see projectors with pixel mapping bugs, I wish they'd be done with that already, no excuse for that crud in this day and age.
It seems the ability to display blu-ray 1080p using 1:1 pixel mapping would be the major advantage of a current budget projector. Are such tiny image details present and visible in moving color images at normal viewing distance and if they are does that substantially improve perceived image quality of fims, TV, etc?
Would a current budget home cinema projector be otherwise on a par or superior to an more expensive old projector for colourfulness and naturalness and contrast brightness depth/pop of the image?
dovercat is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 09-02-2013, 03:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 139
The details of 1080p are of course present, but it depends how close you sit and what you are viewing. A lot of people are sitting too far back to see that much difference, though you can still tell in an A/B test, but it's not really as profound as some people think. Again, totally depends on the source and the movie you are watching, with IMAX camera or the RED 4k type filmed stuff being the most noticeable when differentiating between 1080p and 720p.

I haven't seen this projector so hard to say, but from the sound of it, it sounds like it would easily beat away these sub-$1000 projectors on contrast, and I think I'd rather have a very high contrast 720p projector over a lower contrast 1080p, well for movies anyhow.
720p projectors sometimes look better for streaming and/or cable signals depending on the quality of the stream, because the lower resolution hides noise and compression artifacts better. Whereas 1080p generally looks better for Blurays or a fiber-like cable signal.

One thing is for sure, you cannot go wrong at $350, but my point was I rarely see such good deals on Ebay, and I think it's just a lot easier for most people to buy a well-known brand. However, for anyone that can spot a deal like this, all the more power to them. There are so many people always hunting projector deals on Ebay, that a casual browser like myself rarely sees a good deal. Too many flippers and serious AVS folks always ready to jump on them.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 09-02-2013, 03:40 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
dovercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

One thing is for sure, you cannot go wrong at $350, but my point was I rarely see such good deals on Ebay, and I think it's just a lot easier for most people to buy a well-known brand. However, for anyone that can spot a deal like this, all the more power to them. There are so many people always hunting projector deals on Ebay, that a casual browser like myself rarely sees a good deal. Too many flippers and serious AVS folks always ready to jump on them.
I expect projectors are more popular in the USA as even at £200 $300 dollars with wide angle lens and two lamps at least one of these projectors failed to get any bids while others like the one I won only got one bid. A PT-D770E 3 chip dlp SXGA+ 7,000 Lumen 4,000:1 contrast with dynamic iris went for less than £300 $460 recently, I did not bid on that because it was being sold without lens and lamps. Most bidders in the UK seem to have a shoping list of features that includes 1080p, native 16:9, etc. Video processors also seem to sell often for peanuts a themescene HD3000 video processor went for £12.50 $20.
dovercat is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off