LG PF80G First world mini-projector full led 1080p - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 683 Old 11-29-2013, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

The JVC bulbs are now $299, still not cheap. Something else you could have considered is the Mitsubishi HC8000. It comes with a spare bulb and the bulb life is rated at 5000hrs for just $1600. I got one to go along with my DPI LED projector. But the JVC you got is great, I just had one, you won't be disappointed

Looks like I have a dilemma. Just purchased the Vivitek LED on WOOT. Good deal with the price dropped from $15000 to $2200, but now I own two high end projectors. We'll see which one stays.
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post #452 of 683 Old 11-29-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HTCrazy View Post

Looks like I have a dilemma. Just purchased the Vivitek LED on WOOT. Good deal with the price dropped from $15000 to $2200, but now I own two high end projectors. We'll see which one stays.

Projectors are easy to sell
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post #453 of 683 Old 11-30-2013, 12:08 AM
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As far as I can tell from searching on the internet that Ma & Pop shop up in NY is the only place that we can get it here in the USA and that won't be avalible until late Feb.
So then ? might as well sit this one out and wait and see what crop of more capable projectors come out or I might even be tempted to look more into the 2nd Dev Kit with higher resolution Oculus Rift.
I already have a LED projector for football games.
Sorry LG ? you crewed up on this one.
Good luch on trying to get a market share with this one when more capable projectors will be coming out next year at or even lower price.
LG ? you should have brought this one out last spring and you would have sold a lot of them.
Looking for a new sales and marketing director LG ? tongue.gif
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post #454 of 683 Old 11-30-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Projectors are easy to sell

Especially when you discount them 80% on Woot.
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post #455 of 683 Old 11-30-2013, 06:08 PM
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Any recommendations a small 1080p (preferably 1080p) projector small enough to put in a carry-on on a plane? I was looking at the LG-PF80G but comments sound dismal.
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post #456 of 683 Old 12-02-2013, 02:54 AM
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For a very transportable 1080p home theater projector, I think this will be the best solution. No bulbs to break in transportation and excellent video quality even if not reference by home theater standards. The LED unit I ended up with is more reference quality but also a 35 lb beast and not as bright.
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post #457 of 683 Old 12-04-2013, 12:52 AM
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post #458 of 683 Old 12-04-2013, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTCrazy View Post

For a very transportable 1080p home theater projector, I think this will be the best solution. No bulbs to break in transportation and excellent video quality even if not reference by home theater standards. The LED unit I ended up with is more reference quality but also a 35 lb beast and not as bright.

Not as bright as what? The Vivitek sounded kinda neat, looks to have a great lens. I'm just not ready to spend that much on a projector.
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post #459 of 683 Old 12-05-2013, 07:55 AM
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Not as bright as the LG 85U at 800 lumens vs 1000. I'm not too concerned tho since my 700 lumen PA70G is lighting up a 300+ image now on middle bulb setting. The Vivitek does have a great lens and great processing - hopefully it adds up to a great picture.. We'll see when it comes in Monday.
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post #460 of 683 Old 12-06-2013, 03:39 PM
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Definitely post up your impressions vs. the PA70G.

I'm also fine with the PA70G's brightness in medium setting on my 110" 1.2 gain screen for 2D. And it seems my remote died, so I cannot try to force it into 3D as far as I can tell (requires remote), so I haven't even tried that out on it... frown.gif The PA70G would be better if it was a larger size and you could max the brightness out without the tiny fans screaming away.


I still have to wonder why there are no ~$1000 1080P LED projectors with a decent zoom lens, a reasonably sized chassis with larger cooling fans, and somewhere in the ~1000-1200 lumen range. 1200 advertised lumens would give roughly 700-800 ish lumens calibrated, which should be enough for moderately sized 3D, and should be a great 2D picture.

If you can make money selling a $750ish 1080P bulb DLP projector, I just can't see how you can't make money with roughly the same chassis and maybe a maximum of $50-100 more for an LED light source. Unless bulbs really do costs OEMs a few bucks, and they see them as a future revenue stream to subsidize the low purchase price... I would think a BenQ W1070 or Optoma HD113XE or whatever it is with an LED light source and reasonable brightness for a $200-300 premium would sell like hot cakes.
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post #461 of 683 Old 12-06-2013, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RPS13 View Post


If you can make money selling a $750ish 1080P bulb DLP projector, I just can't see how you can't make money with roughly the same chassis and maybe a maximum of $50-100 more for an LED light source. Unless bulbs really do costs OEMs a few bucks, and they see them as a future revenue stream to subsidize the low purchase price... I would think a BenQ W1070 or Optoma HD113XE or whatever it is with an LED light source and reasonable brightness for a $200-300 premium would sell like hot cakes.

Dont forget Epson, JVC and Samsung. I would love to see a 3LCD 1080p FULL LED Projector with deep blacks by a fast dimming process of the LEDs. And even if you put Euro behind your numbers it would still sell like hot cakes. Problem is your first assumption is correct about the bulb phenomen. It makes no sense for the companys to make the few projector fans happy and lose the ability of having an aftermarket.

LED projectors are the future anyway why should they push it before pressing the last bit of bulb cash out of the customers?
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post #462 of 683 Old 12-06-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomask1979 View Post

Dont forget Epson, JVC and Samsung. I would love to see a 3LCD 1080p FULL LED Projector with deep blacks by a fast dimming process of the LEDs. And even if you put Euro behind your numbers it would still sell like hot cakes. Problem is your first assumption is correct about the bulb phenomen. It makes no sense for the companys to make the few projector fans happy and lose the ability of having an aftermarket.

LED projectors are the future anyway why should they push it before pressing the last bit of bulb cash out of the customers?
Don't sell traditional lamps short just yet. LED projectors have been shown to have, at least, a several hundred dollar premium and no fairly priced units are out there that compete with the W1070 or HD131x. The reason is that you have a huge dropoff in light output between traditional lamps and LED lamps.

Now, Epson has a projector out there with a $99 (MSRP) factory replacement lamp rated to 5,000 hours. Rumors of a 10,000 hour traditional lamp in the same price range have also been brought to me. So, you could pay a few hundred bucks more for a full size projector with LED lamp and get less light, or you could spend less, then replace lamps every 10,000 hours at $100 a pop and get 30,000+ hours for a similar price point.

I think that's the future... one in which LED still has a lot of ground to make up.


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post #463 of 683 Old 12-07-2013, 03:51 AM
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For me, the main advantage of the LED DLP projectors is not the grate lifetime of the light source. It is the "not existence" of the Rainbow effect.

I've tried both the SXRD and the 3LCD technologies and they both has disadvantages (like motion blur) that do not exists in DLP technology. The only issue I have with DLPs is the RBE, that can ruin the whole experience.

Regarding the low brightness of current LED DLP projectors, with current price of 50€ for each LED module, why they do not put a couple of them for each color? Of course, the final price of the projector will be increase by more than 150€, because they should design a different light path and the power supple unit should supply more power and the LED drive circuitry should be different.

But for sure, I will buy such a projector, if I would have to pay 500-1000€ more and finally get a DLP with no RBE.
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post #464 of 683 Old 12-07-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pstas View Post

For me, the main advantage of the LED DLP projectors is not the grate lifetime of the light source. It is the "not existence" of the Rainbow effect.

I've tried both the SXRD and the 3LCD technologies and they both has disadvantages (like motion blur) that do not exists in DLP technology. The only issue I have with DLPs is the RBE, that can ruin the whole experience.

Regarding the low brightness of current LED DLP projectors, with current price of 50€ for each LED module, why they do not put a couple of them for each color? Of course, the final price of the projector will be increase by more than 150€, because they should design a different light path and the power supple unit should supply more power and the LED drive circuitry should be different.

But for sure, I will buy such a projector, if I would have to pay 500-1000€ more and finally get a DLP with no RBE.

Sorry to say but LED doesnt mean RBE free its only less RBE. The only way for me to get rid of the RBE on my PA70G was to mod the inf file so it could project at 120hz even in 2D mode. At any lower hz there was enough RBE to wish i had a LCD LED projector like my good old SP-F10M i still miss for sharpness and brightness compared to the PA70G.
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post #465 of 683 Old 12-08-2013, 04:54 AM
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Now, Epson has a projector out there with a $99 (MSRP) factory replacement lamp rated to 5,000 hours. Rumors of a 10,000 hour traditional lamp in the same price range have also been brought to me.

what model is it?
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post #466 of 683 Old 12-08-2013, 07:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Any recommendations a small 1080p (preferably 1080p) projector small enough to put in a carry-on on a plane? I was looking at the LG-PF80G but comments sound dismal.


I am having the same issue here and started a thread on that. Considering at the moment the LG PB62G and the Dell M115 (got a slightly smaller budget than all of you guys ;)).

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post #467 of 683 Old 12-08-2013, 09:31 AM
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what model is it?

The Epson 2000 and 2030 I think it is projectors use a $99 Epson lamp. Their contrast and black levels seem pretty poor though, but good brightness.


The other issue with LCD projectors, or at least Epsons, is they have a good chance of a polarizer failure after a couple of bulb changes. It doesn't happen to all, but it can definitely strike. So it's not like you can rack up hours on the projector forever and toss it a $99 lamp when it needs it. Eventually the projector itself just won't keep going.



The $99 lamp does mix things up, as that's about the level where I feel the average projector owner would reasonably only spend a few hundred bucks on lamps over the usable life of a projector. But the budget bulb DLP's seem to offer a much more compelling picture than the very budget Epsons at this time...
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post #468 of 683 Old 12-10-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by RPS13 View Post

The Epson 2000 and 2030 I think it is projectors use a $99 Epson lamp. Their contrast and black levels seem pretty poor though, but good brightness.


The other issue with LCD projectors, or at least Epsons, is they have a good chance of a polarizer failure after a couple of bulb changes. It doesn't happen to all, but it can definitely strike. So it's not like you can rack up hours on the projector forever and toss it a $99 lamp when it needs it. Eventually the projector itself just won't keep going.



The $99 lamp does mix things up, as that's about the level where I feel the average projector owner would reasonably only spend a few hundred bucks on lamps over the usable life of a projector. But the budget bulb DLP's seem to offer a much more compelling picture than the very budget Epsons at this time...

You are correct with everything you have said. The cheap Epson is using the new lamp at this time, but I think it is a gateway to potentially becoming an industry standard within the upcoming years. DLP and LCD projectors can certainly all use the same type of lamp, and the cheap DLP and LCD projectors utilizing a sub $100 lamp with a 5,000+ hour rated lifespan, with good brightness, would really set things on edge for LED projector manufacturers. Suddenly, the added price, with a loss of light output would make a lot less sense overall.

I love the idea of the LED projector, I've just never experienced the reality of what it has to offer yet.


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post #469 of 683 Old 12-10-2013, 07:52 AM
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Well, LED brightness should keep going up at a pretty good clip due to it being a semiconductor based process and ongoing research, but like you're saying, it might temporary shut the door on LED expansion if conventional bulbs drop to a pretty low price to where it's a "minor" expense to use a projector at a moderate level.

I think eventually LEDs will become the go-to light source for front projection, but it might take another 5-10 years at this pace.


I think we're seeing the last ditch grasp of some PJ manufacturers to keep their "bulb revenue stream" alive, but eventually once the industry moves to cheaper bulbs, it will cause a fairly quick shift when people factor that into their buying decision.


I do wish the entry level Epsons offered a better picture, but they seem very underwhelming from what I've seen. The only people that seem to really love them are the professional reviewers who seem to be "Epson fanboys."
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post #470 of 683 Old 12-10-2013, 08:46 PM
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I think there are two things in play here. First, most of the traditional projector makers are fine riding out their current tech. Too much risk for them to go in big-time for LED, when they can continue to milk their current products and revenue streams. Second, the companies that are offering LED projectors, in some cases non-traditional makers, apparently feel they can’t market LED on its own. They feel they must include the small form factor/portability aspect as well, to sell the projectors. This kind of bites for people who don’t need portability, because we pay the price in terms of compromises of small form factor, such as smaller hi-rpm fans, smaller lens, etc.

Unfortunately, this situation will drag out for a while longer. I am glad I got my PA70G when it first came out, because I have been able to enjoy it as a family projector, and see what it is like to have a projector that essentially functions like a large TV with no bulb hassles. Maybe someday we will have a real 1080p regular sized LED projector at a decent price – maybe before humans land on Mars, lol.
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post #471 of 683 Old 12-10-2013, 11:20 PM
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where did you get the Vivitek H9080FD for $2,200? I want one!

I just checked and they said there sold out so if any body finds one for sale at around the same price let me know please. "I'm also looking for a NuVision ProVu P2 for sale refurbished or other wise!"
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post #472 of 683 Old 12-11-2013, 07:07 PM
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where did you get the Vivitek H9080FD for $2,200? I want one!

I just checked and they said there sold out so if any body finds one for sale at around the same price let me know please. "I'm also looking for a NuVision ProVu P2 for sale refurbished or other wise!"

Someone posted about the Vivitek being on Woot around Black Friday so I snapped it up. But yes you DO want one. The picture is astounding - proof LED projectors give up nothing to other technologies. Ok maybe brightness.. But the. Vivitek has all the brightness I'd want and won't dim a bit for the next 15 years. Cancelled my JVC in a hurry when I found out about the H9080 Woot deal.
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post #473 of 683 Old 12-12-2013, 09:57 AM
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where did you get the Vivitek H9080FD for $2,200? I want one!

2200$.... i hate you all...^^
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post #474 of 683 Old 12-12-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HTCrazy View Post

Someone posted about the Vivitek being on Woot around Black Friday so I snapped it up. But yes you DO want one. The picture is astounding - proof LED projectors give up nothing to other technologies. Ok maybe brightness.. But the. Vivitek has all the brightness I'd want and won't dim a bit for the next 15 years. Cancelled my JVC in a hurry when I found out about the H9080 Woot deal.

LED bulbs can lose considerable brightness in their first year. It all depends on their quality and how cool you can keep them. Heat can make them lose 80% of their brightness during that first year. It was really bad on the second run of LED LCDs when demand outstripped supply of high quality bulbs and the ultra thin cases basically cooked them.

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post #475 of 683 Old 12-14-2013, 12:18 PM
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LED bulbs can lose considerable brightness in their first year. It all depends on their quality and how cool you can keep them. Heat can make them lose 80% of their brightness during that first year. It was really bad on the second run of LED LCDs when demand outstripped supply of high quality bulbs and the ultra thin cases basically cooked them.

Maybe, but my PA70G hasn't shown ANY signs of dimming over the last year. And I'm pretty sure the Vivitek 9080 that retailed for $15K used the highest quality LED's as they did lenses, processing, housing, and everything else.

Now that it's been for sale on WOOT for $2200 it will probably be hard for anyone to sell these for that much more. Dealers may be getting rid of remaining stock at that price level now or after the new year.
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post #476 of 683 Old 12-14-2013, 01:32 PM
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My 70" Sharp hasn't either, but I have kept it pretty dialed back. (It is super bright anyway, so I never felt the need to raise it too much) The possibility is there, and it is worth knowing what can cause it.

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post #477 of 683 Old 12-18-2013, 09:33 PM
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Hey guys, I recently bought the PA 75U projector and returned it, possibly prematurely. I found the Audio/Video to be constantly out of sync. I was using this with movies on a USB stick and there was no way to sync the Audio/Video in this mode. I was VERY dissapointed to say the least. I figured out how to sync it in the TV mode or HDMI mode but not in USB mode. WTF. I'm willing to buy it again if anyone can explain and show how to sync the audio in this mode because honestly this is the only way I will play movies on the projector. Otherwise I'll just wait for the PF80G
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post #478 of 683 Old 12-20-2013, 06:35 PM
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It looks like CES or bust with this projector since it won't be avalible even at the ma and pop store in New York city at the end of Feb.
Might as well see what goodies are going to come out next year as in a 1080P LED projector.
I would hope to expect more lumins ? and perhaps some projector comapanies taking the lead from Vivitek putting in a real glass lens and some kind of zoom ?
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post #479 of 683 Old 12-21-2013, 02:02 PM
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It looks like CES or bust with this projector since it won't be avalible even at the ma and pop store in New York city at the end of Feb.
Might as well see what goodies are going to come out next year as in a 1080P LED projector.
I would hope to expect more lumins ? and perhaps some projector comapanies taking the lead from Vivitek putting in a real glass lens and some kind of zoom ?

Vivitek has proven they can do an exception job with LED projectors. Now that the H9080FD is discontinued hopefully their next mission is to build a more affordable version. Don't get you hopes up about a high quality glass lens in a budget projector. The only time you usually see those is after a model has been discontinued. But plastic lenses are getting better and better judging by the Sony 55ES. Not sure it will happen though since a competitive midrange LED projector could sell too well and be the beginning of the end for bulb sales the way digital cameras killed the consumer film market.

Once I got my lowly PA70G I knew I never wanted a bulb projector again. Thanks to WOOT I got a great deal on the Vivitek H9080FD and I'm ABSOLUTELY sure I never want another bulb projector. Lets hope LG is upgrading the lens a bit before releasing the 85U in the US since it's taking them until Feb/March 14 to get it here with the PF80G already available for months.
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post #480 of 683 Old 12-21-2013, 09:13 PM
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" Thanks to WOOT I got a great deal on the Vivitek H9080FD " and realitively cheap to.
That's a tank of a projector you got there and most of us wish that was on our wish list.
To bad it's out of production and just under $ 2000.
You can be sure they put in higher quality parts in that tank then the lower priced LED projectors.
That projector should serve you well for many years and a decade or more to come.
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