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138K views 694 replies 90 participants last post by  zaphod7501 
#1 ·
 http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/2013/09/05/lg-pf80g-dlp-full-hd-full-led-1299-euros/

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Finally it's here (in fact in a couple of days in Europe
)


The first mini-projecteur in full hd resolution with LED light sources at a reasonnable price range 1299€


The PF80G will come out mid-september in Europe and I'm dying to review it.
 
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#554 ·
Well, Oculus Rift was bought by Facebook so that turns me off from buying any VR display from them.

I guess I'll get back into the market into buying a LED projector again, maybe.

So the only availability of this projector in the USA is from B&P photo of New York on the 14th of this month.

No work of it being available anywhere else in the USA ?

So why did LG hold off on their introduction of this projector in the USA ?

A bad batch of projectors on their first production run ?

Re-engineered ? and they lurked here on AVS forums to see what people where complaining about and fixed it ?

Put in 3rd ? zoom ? better lens ?
 
#555 ·
Don't write off the Rift just because Facebook bought them. Just be cautious of any future version that can jack you into the matrix.



(A bunch of us on the Playstation subforum have been discussing that possibility, using the events of Sword Art Online as a basis for what could happen.)
 
#557 ·
Those who have this projector who are from other parts of the world ?

After a few months with this LGPF80G how do you like it ?

I went over the CINE review again and noticed in one sentence ? 3D rendering ? under projection mode.

I did read that this projector has a built in level HOOORAY ! and geometry correction , I guess to the screen ?

I wonder what improvements , corrections, or updates LG put into this projector since they held this thing up for 7 months of their introduction in the USA ?
 
#560 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan  /t/1489267/lg-pf80g-first-world-mini-projector-full-led-1080p/540#post_24558527


Those who have this projector who are from other parts of the world ?

After a few months with this LGPF80G how do you like it ?

I went over the CINE review again and noticed in one sentence ? 3D rendering ? under projection mode.

I did read that this projector has a built in level HOOORAY ! and geometry correction , I guess to the screen ?

I wonder what improvements , corrections, or updates LG put into this projector since they held this thing up for 7 months of their introduction in the USA ?

All projectors have "geometry correction" - keystone, trapezoid adjustment etc. You should never actually use them, but they're there for extreme cases where someone doesn't care about degrading image quality.


As for this projector STILL not being here - IMO LG probably realized the obvious fact that they would want to street price this thing in the $1100-1400 range, and it just gets its doors blown off and then some in that price range. No zoom, fairly low brightness, loud cooling fans thanks to small form factor, plastic cheapo lens etc.



I still have hope for LED projectors in the future, but now I'm thinking it's not anywhere in the near term. I'm personally glad I stopped waiting around for this projector to show up and reveal it's list price and moved onto a solid 1080P setup (Mitsubishi HC7900DW - amazing value IMO).
 
#561 ·
Funny that the only place committed to sell this thing is closing for 10 days starting the day this becomes available.
Quote:
Upcoming Passover Holiday Closing

Our NYC SuperStore and Offices will close in observance of the Passover Holiday from Monday, April 14 through Tuesday, April 22.

We will reopen on Wednesday, April 23 at 9:00 am EDT.

I used to live near B&H and 4 out of 5 times i'd go there, they were closed.
 
#564 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by choosymoms  /t/1489267/lg-pf80g-first-world-mini-projector-full-led-1080p/540#post_24582356


perhaps a sign I should begin looking elsewhere.
Like at a $800 projector with 2 replacement lamps and about 15,000 hours of runtime for the same price and more than twice the calibrated lumens?



I'm hoping to get a test sample and will see if that happens at some point.
 
#565 ·
Looks like LG has no competition in this 1080p LED projector space. Therefore, these delays look eminent. This is unfortunate because I was hoping manufactures would compete for market share especially now that it is 2014. After doing some research, there doesn't seem to be any full HD LED projectors in this price point which LG is offering from competitors. I thought that I could look forward to 2014 finally being the year for LEDs rise. Now I can't seem to pick a year when this will happen. I have had bad experiences with LG products in the past and was hoping for LG to be a leader in this race and LG can redeem themselves. However, I now understand that reasonable priced full LED projectors are not involved in a race to market at all. Are there any manufacturers monitoring these forums willing to be innovators? If so, listen up


My 2 cents and then some
 
#566 ·
They do have competition - from traditional bulb projectors. They probably just didn't want to bring it to the US since it'd street at so high of a price it'd be going against projectors that are 1-2 steps above entry level 1080P, and wouldn't really measure up well at all. I'm betting at the price range they want the street price to settle into, most competitors will have frame interpolation, dynamic iris, way way more lumens, way more positioning flexibility, much less noise, better focus uniformity etc.


Basically the bulb projectors would dominate it, and there's only so much value you can assign to no bulb replacements since the cost of those is steadily inching down.



Trust me, I loved having my LED PA70G to fire up at a moments notice and not worry one bit about. But I don't really worry about my HC7900 running that much either since the image it throws up is absolutely amazing compared to the PA70G.
 
#568 ·
I'm all for big screen size... but really, I'd start thinking about a 70" LCD for about the same cost as the PF85U.


I also think they downplayed the pretty obnoxious noise from running in min energy saving mode. My PA70G was pretty useless in this mode, and I very very rarely used it because the fans were easily audible over almost all material.



IMO, that review didn't even expand on how much of a negative it is to not have any zoom or a small form factor that causes high amounts of fan noise - especially as it relates to other $1300 projectors out today. I put up with those shortcomings on a project that was 1/3 as much (PA70G), but at $1300 you can buy a really nice 1080P projector and a shelf full of bulbs to watch it to your heart's content.
 
#569 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiminheimer  /t/1489267/lg-pf80g-first-world-mini-projector-full-led-1080p/540#post_24601128


Full review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/lg_pf85u_projector_review.htm
The review from Projector Central really paints a pretty picture for this model, but makes absolutely no comparison of this model to the venerable W1070 or HD25/HD131x models which is what the real comparison is. People on the 'cheap' aren't buying a $1,300 projector, they are buying $500 models. At the $1,300 price point the HD131/W1070 offers a 1080p model with zoom and perhaps even a couple of replacement lamps for the 'same' price.


But, points about input lag were real and stood on their own. This isn't exactly a gamers projector, and may even be so laggy as to need audio delay compensation in an A/V receiver.


The brightness discussion seemed to be equally off-point.
Quote:
While brightness tops out around 700 lumens, the projector looks great on a 60" to 80" diagonal screen even with some ambient light present.

That's a completely worthless size for most viewers who can go out an buy a 70" LED for not a lot more cash and a 60" TV for a fair bit less cash. So, when talking front projection we should be at least in the 100" range, more often the 110" to 120" range. If all this projector can manage is a decent 80" image, then it should go in the 'Do not buy!' pile right now.


I don't think that's the case, but Bill didn't touch on it during the review, and it was one thing he really should have. He certainly should not have mentioned the terrible Black Diamond screen which sparkles it's way to a lousy on screen image as an option for larger sizes. No.


The features certainly seem appropriately rated with 5 stars as this model certainly does offer more internal features than most others. But, no lens shift and no zoom, make me question a 4-star ease of use rating. I always think that features and ease of use somewhat cross, and need to be separated. This projector is not easy to setup compared to most others, it is extremely limited in fact and the one adjustment it has (focus) tends to bump the projector. Only models like the 5030 from Epson or JVC RS46 with extensive zoom range and lens shift should be 5-star ease of use products. The limited zoom lens shift of the W1070 may make it 4 stars. The average models like the HD131 or 3020 should be closer to 3 stars, and this model doesn't even offer that level of setup ease. So, 2-stars? But, it gets 4 stars. Inappropriate IMO.


Features, such as wi-fi DLNA, Smart support, and internal tuner frankly put it ahead of almost everyone else in terms of features. In fact, it seems to redefine what features a projector can, and perhaps should, have. But, other manufacturers will only be able to go down that road if they include Roku or a similar produce embedded. In fact, I would likely trust Roku embedded more than I would trust features delivered by LG. But, that's just me. 5-stars? Sure! But still, a lack of 3D is kind of weird to not have these days.


Performance of 4.5 stars? Based on what? Brightness? Color quality? Motion handling? Black levels? Shadow detail? Sharpness? Image uniformity? Noise level? Some of these items aren't even discussed, and some are known to be bad. I don't see this as anywhere near a 4.5 star projector in terms of overall performance. But it's not that way for other projectors as well IMO. There are very few 4.5+ star projectors out there in terms of actual image performance.


Value - 5 stars? Yeah, I'll go down that road. I won't argue it. The use of a LED engine with a projector bright enough to handle a 110" diagonal (it better!) for $1,300 with a lifetime light engine? Maybe 4.5 stars, but I will give it 5 stars. I think value always relates to the overall quality, features, and performance that you get for the money spent, and this one does seem to exceed in many areas. But, dollars for lumens to video quality, which seem to be the big comparisons, it doesn't match up to the HD131x or the W1070. Not even close. Add in total cost of ownership, and it gets a lot closer because there are no lamps to replace. But, expecting a LG product to actually last 20,000+ hours is not what I would consider a realistic basis. Instead, I would expect about 10,000 hours of use. Perhaps 2 replacement lamps on a traditional lamp projector. Suddenly things get much closer in terms of price and TCO and... value. Still, it's a lot less than Optoma's HD81 projector, and is a unique model for sure.


I was hoping that Evan could have gotten me a sample to put up head-to-head with my W1070 and on a 1.3 gain screen in a more typical 'lights out, but not properly light controlled' basement situation. A 'after dark' family room setup would be similar. It would have been fun to see what an actual acceptable size was, how it really compared to the venerable W1070, and what noise levels and image quality, and the rest was like. I may reach out to him again to see if that may be possible.
 
#570 ·
Wait, the 85 doesn't do dlp-link 3D? I thought it was the 80 that lacked 3D (and coaxial) and the 85 added those two features for a few hundred more.
 
#572 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast  /t/1489267/lg-pf80g-first-world-mini-projector-full-led-1080p/540#post_24610268


Wait, the 85 doesn't do dlp-link 3D? I thought it was the 80 that lacked 3D (and coaxial) and the 85 added those two features for a few hundred more.
It isn't mentioned at all on the specifications sheet.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_8157.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsims2719  /t/1489267/lg-pf80g-first-world-mini-projector-full-led-1080p/570#post_24611257


To me the better comparison would be to the HD91. I mean come on they just did a review of the HD91. I would be interested to know how close the LG is to the Optoma.
Why? Because it is also LED? The HD91 is expected to be several thousand dollars. The problem is that LED should NOT be compared with LED - it should be compared to projectors that are in the same price class on somewhat equal footing. If you are looking at the HD91, then you should be looking at the Sony & JVC LCoS projectors, or the Epson 5030. Those are the models to compare to the HD91.


But, at the price point of the PF85, you won't be dishing out $2,000 more for the HD91, but you may consider the lamp based models in the same price class and the pros and cons. The writeup doesn't list any of those pros or cons in relation to other models, and frankly it bugs me a bit because those are the real competitors.


I think LG hit a home run with what they are doing, but for consumers, they may just jump because it says LED and 1080p, instead of looking at the huge jump in brightness that goes with the others, the zoom, a bit of lens shift with the W1070, and other features that may, or may not, be there with traditional models. Someone set on LED is going to buy LED. But, it seems the vast majority are looking for the best value for their money, and this one leaves a lot of room for comparison.
 
#573 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated  /t/1489267/lg-pf80g-first-world-mini-projector-full-led-1080p/540#post_24608956


The review from Projector Central really paints a pretty picture for this model, but makes absolutely no comparison of this model to the venerable W1070 or HD25/HD131x models which is what the real comparison is. People on the 'cheap' aren't buying a $1,300 projector, they are buying $500 models. At the $1,300 price point the HD131/W1070 offers a 1080p model with zoom and perhaps even a couple of replacement lamps for the 'same' price.


But, points about input lag were real and stood on their own. This isn't exactly a gamers projector, and may even be so laggy as to need audio delay compensation in an A/V receiver.


The brightness discussion seemed to be equally off-point.

That's a completely worthless size for most viewers who can go out an buy a 70" LED for not a lot more cash and a 60" TV for a fair bit less cash. So, when talking front projection we should be at least in the 100" range, more often the 110" to 120" range. If all this projector can manage is a decent 80" image, then it should go in the 'Do not buy!' pile right now.


I don't think that's the case, but Bill didn't touch on it during the review, and it was one thing he really should have. He certainly should not have mentioned the terrible Black Diamond screen which sparkles it's way to a lousy on screen image as an option for larger sizes. No.


The features certainly seem appropriately rated with 5 stars as this model certainly does offer more internal features than most others. But, no lens shift and no zoom, make me question a 4-star ease of use rating. I always think that features and ease of use somewhat cross, and need to be separated. This projector is not easy to setup compared to most others, it is extremely limited in fact and the one adjustment it has (focus) tends to bump the projector. Only models like the 5030 from Epson or JVC RS46 with extensive zoom range and lens shift should be 5-star ease of use products. The limited zoom lens shift of the W1070 may make it 4 stars. The average models like the HD131 or 3020 should be closer to 3 stars, and this model doesn't even offer that level of setup ease. So, 2-stars? But, it gets 4 stars. Inappropriate IMO.


Features, such as wi-fi DLNA, Smart support, and internal tuner frankly put it ahead of almost everyone else in terms of features. In fact, it seems to redefine what features a projector can, and perhaps should, have. But, other manufacturers will only be able to go down that road if they include Roku or a similar produce embedded. In fact, I would likely trust Roku embedded more than I would trust features delivered by LG. But, that's just me. 5-stars? Sure! But still, a lack of 3D is kind of weird to not have these days.


Performance of 4.5 stars? Based on what? Brightness? Color quality? Motion handling? Black levels? Shadow detail? Sharpness? Image uniformity? Noise level? Some of these items aren't even discussed, and some are known to be bad. I don't see this as anywhere near a 4.5 star projector in terms of overall performance. But it's not that way for other projectors as well IMO. There are very few 4.5+ star projectors out there in terms of actual image performance.


Value - 5 stars? Yeah, I'll go down that road. I won't argue it. The use of a LED engine with a projector bright enough to handle a 110" diagonal (it better!) for $1,300 with a lifetime light engine? Maybe 4.5 stars, but I will give it 5 stars. I think value always relates to the overall quality, features, and performance that you get for the money spent, and this one does seem to exceed in many areas. But, dollars for lumens to video quality, which seem to be the big comparisons, it doesn't match up to the HD131x or the W1070. Not even close. Add in total cost of ownership, and it gets a lot closer because there are no lamps to replace. But, expecting a LG product to actually last 20,000+ hours is not what I would consider a realistic basis. Instead, I would expect about 10,000 hours of use. Perhaps 2 replacement lamps on a traditional lamp projector. Suddenly things get much closer in terms of price and TCO and... value. Still, it's a lot less than Optoma's HD81 projector, and is a unique model for sure.


I was hoping that Evan could have gotten me a sample to put up head-to-head with my W1070 and on a 1.3 gain screen in a more typical 'lights out, but not properly light controlled' basement situation. A 'after dark' family room setup would be similar. It would have been fun to see what an actual acceptable size was, how it really compared to the venerable W1070, and what noise levels and image quality, and the rest was like. I may reach out to him again to see if that may be possible.

Your writing gave me a go to place in the future when comparing features...


And a well written critiqued response
 
#574 ·

I can see one specific application where the dimmer LED projector with no zoom or lens shift might work pretty well.  Pair it up with a high-gain retroreflective screen like Da-Lite High Power or Draper Radiant and put it on a table that's easily adjusted for the correct height and distance from the screen.  I currently use a table-mounted projector with both zoom and lens shift that I could easily get along without, and am already looking at adding a retroreflective screen.  So I could see something like the PF80G working for me and others with similar setups. 
 
#575 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green  /t/1489267/lg-pf80g-first-world-mini-projector-full-led-1080p/570#post_24613074


I can see one specific application where the dimmer LED projector with no zoom or lens shift might work pretty well.  Pair it up with a high-gain retroreflective screen like Da-Lite High Power or Draper Radiant and put it on a table that's easily adjusted for the correct height and distance from the screen.  I currently use a table-mounted projector with both zoom and lens shift that I could easily get along without, and am already looking at adding a retroreflective screen.  So I could see something like the PF80G working for me and others with similar setups. 
I would never recommend a high gain retroreflective screen if quality viewing is desired. Black screens also do horrendous things to what is being projected.


In a 'white room' with lights out, 420 real lumens will deliver a stunning 100"-110" diagonal image on a typical 1.3-1.4 gain screen. It won't be 'lights on' quality, but lights out will be no problem.


Consider though that a standard white screen with the HD131x or W1070 will deliver a better image, for less money on the same screen, and you get more quality for the money.


It remains the fact that there are limited reasons to get a projector like this, but they are valid reasons:

1. The LED engine won't need to be replaced. No service, no worry, when it comes to the light source other than major critical issues typical of all electronics.

2. The size is highly portable with a projector that is true 1080p.

3. The light output is decent enough for a lights out viewing experience at any point

4. The built in features could be excellent for any number of viewing situations.

5. There should be some significant energy savings overall with this model compared to traditional models which really is important to some people.


I don't see this replacing my W1070, but a model like this which the kids can hook up to their game systems (tough with the input lag issue), or to take on travel to watch movies wherever, or to a friends home to do some quick viewing... It's highly portable and the built in features are stronger than other models.


But, the goal for a lot of people in these forums in the W1070/HD131x comparison. The value vs. quality of this model vs. those guys. I think for some people, it is there, but the comparison needs to be made. There needs to be that head-to-head duel and once the line is drawn in the sand, the results really need to be laid out so that consumers understand what choice they are making, what they are gaining, and what they are giving up.


LG has, IMO, hit a home run with this product because if someone is considering a low-profile 92" setup, and they don't care about 3D, and have installation flexibility, then they can do something really cool with it.


I have some thoughts about a multiple display gaming setup in my home, and this may be the type of option I'm looking for.


But, that input lag was really a huge mistake on this model considering a target audience that should include gaming for certain. Ah well.
 
#576 ·
I have the LG PA75U and other than that it's 720P resolution and stated at 700 lumens I play games with it and don't even noticed the imput or output lag.

To be honest ? those diehards who play games and spend thousands of thousands of dollars on gaming systems or computers have to much time on their hands.

I am at the point where I am starting to lose my interest in games.

To me ? all first person shooter games are all basically the same, same goal.

Yeah, 3D would be great but it's not the be all end all the whole world priory of life.

Perhaps ? I have not really experience a good 3D experience.

Those who are sticklers on imput lag or out put lag obsessed over to much and are not really putting their true priories in life in order.

It's the same with those who spend $ 10,000 $ 20,000 for just a high priced audio system.

I am happy with just a good sounding $ 500 audio system.

There are more important things in life, take a look and look around.

I rather take $ 10,000, $ 20,000 $ 30,000 and buy a piece of property somewhere.

For most people ? it's all about keeping up with the Joneses.

People are not happy or satisfied with what they have.

Then again ? that's part of marketing, they do have to make their money and make a living.

However ? there comes a point where other things in life take priority.

I can understand that there is no happiness and honor of being in poverty either.

I don't think no one loves living in a hell hole of a house.
 
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