BenQ W1070 vs. Epson 2030 direct comparison (yes, I have both) - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 09:12 AM
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From the reviews I've read it seems the Optoma HD131xe is better than both of these especially gaming and the black levels. What am I missing?

I had both in my basement, the optoma and benq, and found the benq to be a better projector. There were less rainbow artifacts, it had a superior picture, and there was no contest in terms of color, at least viewing them from my own eyes. The Optoma, too, I would imagine would be a harder setup for many people who don't have high ceilings. It has around a 7" offset and is a longer throw compared to the Benq (the 1080 of course, but also the 1070). They both have good response time so for gaming I don't think there will be any real noticeable difference. I'm getting the Benq 1080ST once I save more money.
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post #122 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 09:18 AM
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Gotta agree with lard canoe. Have both projectors now and found the Epson to be superior in every aspect (resolution, color naturalness, saturation, and brightness). The only kind of mysterious thing where the BenQ seems to have an edge is streaming content through Chromecast -- for some reason when I play action things like HD GoPro ads the Epson generates those "blotches" (pixelated areas) that look like the streaming is too slow, then the BenQ doesn't. It could have been because the Epson hangs on the ceiling while the BenQ was sitting on a coffee table, i.e., maybe the BenQ had better wifi reception, but I find it hard to imagine since the Airport Extreme router is only 5 feet away from either with no wall in between. 

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post #123 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 10:45 AM
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I had both in my basement, the optoma and benq, and found the benq to be a better projector. There were less rainbow artifacts, it had a superior picture, and there was no contest in terms of color, at least viewing them from my own eyes. The Optoma, too, I would imagine would be a harder setup for many people who don't have high ceilings. It has around a 7" offset and is a longer throw compared to the Benq (the 1080 of course, but also the 1070). They both have good response time so for gaming I don't think there will be any real noticeable difference. I'm getting the Benq 1080ST once I save more money.

 



I excluded the Optomas because I've read that the Benq is much clearer with a better picture (Butie seems to feel the same way) and the Epson is significantly brighter and more vibrant despite the lumen ratings. Based on my research, the 2030 and w1070/w1080 are the best two projectors in this price range.
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post #124 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 12:38 PM
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Gotta agree with lard canoe. Have both projectors now and found the Epson to be superior in every aspect (resolution, color naturalness, saturation, and brightness). The only kind of mysterious thing where the BenQ seems to have an edge is streaming content through Chromecast -- for some reason when I play action things like HD GoPro ads the Epson generates those "blotches" (pixelated areas) that look like the streaming is too slow, then the BenQ doesn't. It could have been because the Epson hangs on the ceiling while the BenQ was sitting on a coffee table, i.e., maybe the BenQ had better wifi reception, but I find it hard to imagine since the Airport Extreme router is only 5 feet away from either with no wall in between. 


 



I have not tried the wifi, so I'm not sure about that aspect. Also, I'm just curious if you adjusted the sharpness of your Epson unit and how that affected the picture quality for you? I'm wondering this had a similar dramatic effect for you as it did for me (and if it explains some of the varying experiences in this forum).

Thanks in advance.
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post #125 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 12:41 PM
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I have not tried the wifi, so I'm not sure about that aspect. Also, I'm just curious if you adjusted the sharpness of your Epson unit and how that affected the picture quality for you? I'm wondering this had a similar dramatic effect for you as it did for me (and if it explains some of the varying experiences in this forum).

Thanks in advance.

 

Just to clarify, by wifi I just mean Chromecast, which is a wifi dongle (I don't think the projector has wifi built in, does it?). One thing I wonder about is whether the lower input lag of the BenQ that allegedly gives it an edge in gaming might also give it an edge in fast moving action HD scenes, such as the GoPro ones I was using to compare the two projectors. Could this be? 

 

As to the sharpness slider, I honestly just played around with it this morning after reading your post, but it was too bright in the room to judge carefully. What is your preferred level for it? 

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post #126 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 12:56 PM
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Just to clarify, by wifi I just mean Chromecast, which is a wifi dongle (I don't think the projector has wifi built in, does it?). One thing I wonder about is whether the same "lower lag" property that gives the BenQ an edge in gaming might also give it an edge in fast moving action HD scenes, such as the ones I was using to compare the two projectors. Could this be? 

 

As to the sharpness slider, I honestly just played around with it this morning after reading your post, but it was too bright in the room to judge carefully. What is your preferred level for it? 

 



Ok, I see about the wifi. No, I don't know about any wifi capabilities for either unit.

I didn't notice a difference in motion, they both looked decent enough (neither has the super smooth motion of a more expensive projector).

I turn the sharpness up to +5 for most content. For some games, the Epson almost looks too sharp to the point of being pixellated, so I'll change it to about a +3 (I've noticed this more on 720p content such as PS3 games, which makes sense as the pixels are larger). For some content, I'll turn the brightness to -10 and to me it gives a similar look and feel to the w1070 at that level IMHO if I want more of a theater-like look or if it's too bright (still bright but not too bright and darks look a little better to me on this setting).
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post #127 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 01:02 PM
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Interesting, thanks. 

 

As you mention games, do you have the lag setting at "Fast" or "Fine"? Do you notice a reduction in image quality if you have it in "Fast"? 

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post #128 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 01:03 PM
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[quote name=

I excluded the Optomas because I've read that the Benq is much clearer with a better picture (Butie seems to feel the same way) and the Epson is significantly brighter and more vibrant despite the lumen ratings. Based on my research, the 2030 and w1070/w1080 are the best two projectors in this price range.[/quote]

Even though in this review they specifically state the Optoma has better blacks and mentions the lack of sharpness on the Epson?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/review-optoma-hd131xe-projector/
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post #129 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 01:14 PM
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Interesting, thanks. 



 



As you mention games, do you have the lag setting at "Fast" or "Fine"? Do you notice a reduction in image quality if you have it in "Fast"? 


 



Fast does lose some fine detail, but it's not something I notice while playing a game and it makes the response time great. If you're looking at a small icon, you can notice more pixellation but in the big picture it still looks really good to me, I prefer gaming on this model personally even in fast mode because of the more vivid look, but as with anything, opinions will differ.
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post #130 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

[quote name=



I excluded the Optomas because I've read that the Benq is much clearer with a better picture (Butie seems to feel the same way) and the Epson is significantly brighter and more vibrant despite the lumen ratings. Based on my research, the 2030 and w1070/w1080 are the best two projectors in this price range.[/quote]



Even though in this review they specifically state the Optoma has better blacks and mentions the lack of sharpness on the Epson?



http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/review-optoma-hd131xe-projector/

 



Quote from the review you are referencing:

"I don’t consider this a great choice as a first projector, for someone who knows they are going to be a real hard core enthusiast. That is, if you are the kind that demands great color, and other high performance aspects, this one’s probably not for you. Typically this projector is for the people who have owned several LCDTVs and really never adjust or mess with the controls. They have a reasonably good looking picture and are satisfied! Well, the HD131Xe does put up a respectable picture, although color accuracy leaves a good bit to be desired, as will be discussed in the Image Quality pages. Think of it this way, the HD131Xe projector his is probably a good starting projector for most people, in this price range, just not all."

To answer the question, yes, I absolutely stand by my personal opinon. I sincerely hope your Optoma works out great for you.
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post #131 of 149 Old 02-18-2014, 01:41 PM
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I was more referencing this part of the review.

"The single thing that strikes me most about the HD131Xe projector is that it does some really good black level handling considering its one of the least expensive 1080p projectors on the market!

The special feature in charge of those blacks, responsible for the 18,000:1 claimed On/Off contrast ratio is Optoma’s Dynamic Black. Over the years Dynamic Black on previous Optoma’s have gone from obvious (seeing its action when watching content,) to reasonably well behaved. Dynamic Black on the HD131Xe fits into the more well behaved group.

But the key here, is that this projector offers up blacks that are easily able to beat some more expensive projectors. Certainly the lowest cost 3LCD competion such as the Epson 2030, is not even close, as this side by side comparison indicates. This image was taken with more than a modest amount of ambient light present. The Optoma is on the left, Epson’s $999 Home Cinema 2030 on the right. (Epson’s Home Cinema 2000 – a lower cost variation of the HC2030, is officially $899.)

Although I haven’t had a BenQ W1070 here since early in 2013, after looking at images, etc., that other popular projector, will also come up short of the HD131Xe projector, although closer than the Epson.
- See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/optoma-hd131xe-projector-special-features/#sthash.0P6UXybN.dpuf "
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Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

I was more referencing this part of the review.



"The single thing that strikes me most about the HD131Xe projector is that it does some really good black level handling considering its one of the least expensive 1080p projectors on the market!



The special feature in charge of those blacks, responsible for the 18,000:1 claimed On/Off contrast ratio is Optoma’s Dynamic Black. Over the years Dynamic Black on previous Optoma’s have gone from obvious (seeing its action when watching content,) to reasonably well behaved. Dynamic Black on the HD131Xe fits into the more well behaved group.



But the key here, is that this projector offers up blacks that are easily able to beat some more expensive projectors. Certainly the lowest cost 3LCD competion such as the Epson 2030, is not even close, as this side by side comparison indicates. This image was taken with more than a modest amount of ambient light present. The Optoma is on the left, Epson’s $999 Home Cinema 2030 on the right. (Epson’s Home Cinema 2000 – a lower cost variation of the HC2030, is officially $899.)



Although I haven’t had a BenQ W1070 here since early in 2013, after looking at images, etc., that other popular projector, will also come up short of the HD131Xe projector, although closer than the Epson.

- See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/optoma-hd131xe-projector-special-features/#sthash.0P6UXybN.dpuf "

 



I've done a ton of research and also strongly considered Optomas at one time due to the gaming lag and black levels. However, they also have some weaknesses such as significant image noise, uneven focus issues, rainbows, and a lack of quality realistic color that IMHO hold them back from being as strong of an all-around option as the two on this thread. Brightness is also a concern for the unit you reference but Optoma did address this concern significantly with other models (HD-25LV and HD-25e).
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I'm going to do some more research and see if I can find one to see in person to compare but based off what I've read so far it seems they rank out 1. Optoma HD131xe 2. BenQ W1070 3. Epson 2030
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I'm going to do some more research and see if I can find one to see in person to compare but based off what I've read so far it seems they rank out 1. Optoma HD131xe 2. BenQ W1070 3. Epson 2030

 



Talking blacks specifically, I agree. When ranking all around projectors, I would reverse that order. Others may legitimately disagree, that's what makes forums like this great. I wish you luck and hope you find the best projector for you. I'm confident that I found the best one for me.
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post #135 of 149 Old 02-24-2014, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

I was more referencing this part of the review.

"The single thing that strikes me most about the HD131Xe projector is that it does some really good black level handling considering its one of the least expensive 1080p projectors on the market!

The special feature in charge of those blacks, responsible for the 18,000:1 claimed On/Off contrast ratio is Optoma’s Dynamic Black. Over the years Dynamic Black on previous Optoma’s have gone from obvious (seeing its action when watching content,) to reasonably well behaved. Dynamic Black on the HD131Xe fits into the more well behaved group.

But the key here, is that this projector offers up blacks that are easily able to beat some more expensive projectors. Certainly the lowest cost 3LCD competion such as the Epson 2030, is not even close, as this side by side comparison indicates. This image was taken with more than a modest amount of ambient light present. The Optoma is on the left, Epson’s $999 Home Cinema 2030 on the right. (Epson’s Home Cinema 2000 – a lower cost variation of the HC2030, is officially $899.)

Although I haven’t had a BenQ W1070 here since early in 2013, after looking at images, etc., that other popular projector, will also come up short of the HD131Xe projector, although closer than the Epson.
- See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/optoma-hd131xe-projector-special-features/#sthash.0P6UXybN.dpuf "

 

Looking at the images seems that the Epson has a lighter spotlittle bit left and down.. attached are the images from the review and a jpeg i did to illustrate what im seeing. Lard Canoe, does your Epson do this?

 

 

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post #136 of 149 Old 02-24-2014, 09:24 AM
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Looking at the images seems that the Epson has a lighter spotlittle bit left and down.. attached are the images from the review and a jpeg i did to illustrate what im seeing. Lard Canoe, does your Epson do this?

 

 

 



Hi Mufiko,

The picture looks very good and uniform across the entire screen.

I think that Art's (the reviewer that has been quoted each time in the comparison of the Optoma vs. Epson debate) direct comparison of the Optoma HD25-LV (note that this model is about twice the price retail and considered an upgrade over the Optoma referenced here, it is also $300+ more expensive than the two projectors that meant to be compared in this thread) and the Epson 2030 sums up the differences and trade-offs (yes, for a $1000 projector, there will be tradeoffs). Notice that I don't cherry pick and leave out the bits that don't favor my opinion, I think it's important to have the big picture so you and everyone else can pick out the best solution for you/them:

"Whereas the Epson seems to exceptional friendly – Good color right out of the box, great warranty, the Optoma is, at least based on black levels, more performance oriented. While both are bright, one would consider the Optoma HD25-LV, the better choice for the dedicated home theater, especially if you plan to get the color right (try our settings to start). For you who like to play, the Optoma doesn’t allow you to save user settings. Make a change in another mode and you lose previous settings, and that drove me a bit crazy, as I suspect it will other enthusiasts.

But the HD25-LV has one image quality flaw and that is the high noise levels we noted. Even turning off Brilliant Color didn’t really help. While I’m a fan of better blacks, I have to still favor the Epson, due primarily to the image noise issue, which is more than I can really handle.

That’s not to say that the average consumer (non-enthusiast) would have a problem with the image noise, but the average consumer is the one that the Epson Home Cinema 2030 serves best, with overall feature set, warranty, no rainbows to deal with etc.

I think Optoma got close to having a great projector, but didn’t quite get there. Too bad.

Were it not for the image noise issue (and my rainbow sensitivity), however, the HD25-LV would be my choice of the two for a dedicated home theater. But as I am, and since the HD25-LV doesn’t have the fastest color wheel, I’d still have to take a pass. The image noise and the rainbows are too much for me. But the Optoma still has those noticeably better blacks. You make the call."

As I've mentioned previously, the Optomas and Benq for that matter have better blacks, no question about it (though the Epson's are fine). So if that is your primary concern or if you are looking for a dedicated theater for movies and like the look, perhaps the Optoma is a better fit for you. IMHO (and I've been very clear about this from the start that it's an opinion for my particular needs), the Epson is better all-around for me as the image noise, rainbows, and lack of quality color overshadow the advantage as a dark theater projector that the Optoma has. I have no dog in the fight with any of these projectors and suspect that in a vacuum, anyone would be thrilled with any of them. However, the fact that a self-described black junkie and home theater enthusiast like Art still prefers the Epson over the "step up" version of the Optoma reinforces the fact that the Epson is a great choice as a $1000 home projector.

I hope this helps....again, there is no right answer, go for whatever meets your needs the best and enjoy!
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post #137 of 149 Old 02-24-2014, 10:19 AM
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Looking at the images seems that the Epson has a lighter spotlittle bit left and down.. attached are the images from the review and a jpeg i did to illustrate what im seeing. Lard Canoe, does your Epson do this?

 

 

 



Hi Mufiko,

The picture looks very good and uniform across the entire screen.

I think that Art's (the reviewer that has been quoted each time in the comparison of the Optoma vs. Epson debate) direct comparison of the Optoma HD25-LV (note that this model is about twice the price retail and considered an upgrade over the Optoma referenced here, it is also $300+ more expensive than the two projectors that meant to be compared in this thread) and the Epson 2030 sums up the differences and trade-offs (yes, for a $1000 projector, there will be tradeoffs). Notice that I don't cherry pick and leave out the bits that don't favor my opinion, I think it's important to have the big picture so you and everyone else can pick out the best solution for you/them:

"Whereas the Epson seems to exceptional friendly – Good color right out of the box, great warranty, the Optoma is, at least based on black levels, more performance oriented. While both are bright, one would consider the Optoma HD25-LV, the better choice for the dedicated home theater, especially if you plan to get the color right (try our settings to start). For you who like to play, the Optoma doesn’t allow you to save user settings. Make a change in another mode and you lose previous settings, and that drove me a bit crazy, as I suspect it will other enthusiasts.

But the HD25-LV has one image quality flaw and that is the high noise levels we noted. Even turning off Brilliant Color didn’t really help. While I’m a fan of better blacks, I have to still favor the Epson, due primarily to the image noise issue, which is more than I can really handle.

That’s not to say that the average consumer (non-enthusiast) would have a problem with the image noise, but the average consumer is the one that the Epson Home Cinema 2030 serves best, with overall feature set, warranty, no rainbows to deal with etc.

I think Optoma got close to having a great projector, but didn’t quite get there. Too bad.

Were it not for the image noise issue (and my rainbow sensitivity), however, the HD25-LV would be my choice of the two for a dedicated home theater. But as I am, and since the HD25-LV doesn’t have the fastest color wheel, I’d still have to take a pass. The image noise and the rainbows are too much for me. But the Optoma still has those noticeably better blacks. You make the call."

As I've mentioned previously, the Optomas and Benq for that matter have better blacks, no question about it (though the Epson's are fine). So if that is your primary concern or if you are looking for a dedicated theater for movies and like the look, perhaps the Optoma is a better fit for you. IMHO (and I've been very clear about this from the start that it's an opinion for my particular needs), the Epson is better all-around for me as the image noise, rainbows, and lack of quality color overshadow the advantage as a dark theater projector that the Optoma has. I have no dog in the fight with any of these projectors and suspect that in a vacuum, anyone would be thrilled with any of them. However, the fact that a self-described black junkie and home theater enthusiast like Art still prefers the Epson over the "step up" version of the Optoma reinforces the fact that the Epson is a great choice as a $1000 home projector.

I hope this helps....again, there is no right answer, go for whatever meets your needs the best and enjoy!

Thanks again for your answer. I understand your point and know none of these projectors are perfects. My point was more to ask people look closely to the images in the review. It looks like the Epson side of the screen is light up or something. Think these pictures shown in the review are not valid for making conclusions about the image quality of the Epson or someone should clear up whats happening in the photos cos I'm confused. Sorry if you feel I'm going off topic..

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Thanks again for your answer. I understand your point and know none of these projectors are perfects. My point was more to ask people look closely to the images in the review. It looks like the Epson side of the screen is light up or something. Think these pictures shown in the review are not valid for making conclusions about the image quality of the Epson or someone should clear up whats happening in the photos cos I'm confused. Sorry if you feel I'm going off topic..

 



Did I answer your question? It sounds like I'm the one that may have gone off topic for you smile.gif Sorry about that, I assumed that you were comparing the two based on the pictures. Bad assumption on my part from what it sounds like.
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post #139 of 149 Old 02-24-2014, 11:04 AM
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1) BenQ definitely has the edge in picture quality. If you arent susceptible to rainbows, its the clear winner in my book. Out-the-box better picture, quieter fan noise, $100 bucks cheaper. About the only nagging drawback is how slow it is switching sources. You will be sitting in the dark for up to 30 seconds while its "seeking source". There's even been a few times when its not found the HDMI source. So lets say I'm switcing from Fios cable to Xbox360. The signal from the Xbox never picks up, I have to switch it to another source first.. then switch it back to the Xbox. Or restart the Xbox to get the signal to show up. Happens pretty regularly. Epson doesnt have those issues.

2) Havent tried 3D on W1070 yet. Needs special IR based 3D glasses. I think 144hz or something like that. They are not expensive, just special.. I believe they are $30 on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/SainSonic-reg-SSZ-200DLB-Rechargeable-ViewSonic/dp/B0085JBI6S/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1378743117&sr=8-14&keywords=3D+glasses). If I start leaning more towards to the 1070.. I'll definitely order them to give them a try.

3) Forgot to add the Epson 2030 just feels a year newer and more up to date on little features. It has HDMI control of other devices, so the remote for the Epson will control BR playback. I also like that when the remote turns off the projector it also turns off the AVR. There are absolutely no HDMI handshake issues with the Epson.

4) Will get around to posting some screen shots sometime this week/weekend.


Hey man...i am also trying to make a decision between these 2 projectors and my big concern is with handshake. I have owned Optoma before and it had significant handshake issues. Can you give an update on the Epson? If you were to pick between the 2, which one would you opt for and why? Asking you because you owned both these units. Thanks in advance.
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post #140 of 149 Old 02-25-2014, 11:37 AM
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Hey man...i am also trying to make a decision between these 2 projectors and my big concern is with handshake. I have owned Optoma before and it had significant handshake issues. Can you give an update on the Epson? If you were to pick between the 2, which one would you opt for and why? Asking you because you owned both these units. Thanks in advance.

I'll add another .02 to the discussion. One of the biggest factors why I stepped away from the Epson was it's inability to clearly display the attached calibration patterns I have been using with digital devices for over 10 years; specifically the 2x2, 3x3 or 4x4 patterns in the attached calibration files I've attached. These are displayed from a Windows 7 / AMD video card over HDMI as a tiled desktop pattern.

With the 2030 unit I received from Amazon, the images appeared as a blurry and distorted and full of digital noise. Especially in the "FAST" mode, which appears to be sending a downscaled image to the LCD's. Due to my theatre's ceiling inclusion of a heating soffit, I was limited to the 2030 or a 1080ST.

While I was a bit apprehensive of having the projector closer to the screen, I'm much happier with this configuration than the mid-back of the room placement where the noise was more evident. If anyone has a 2030, give the calibration patterns I mentioned a try, I would be interested to see if the 2030 I had was issue prone.

I should note, when running the tests, I pushed the Epson 2030 and the BenW 1080ST simultaneously with a mirrored image from the HTP, enabling a direct comparison of the images, side by side.

mappingTestPatterns.zip 53k .zip file
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post #141 of 149 Old 02-25-2014, 12:41 PM
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Hi vidkidd,

Is there any way to post these as a picture? Is like to test them but was unable to download them previously. Thanks in advance!
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post #142 of 149 Old 03-12-2014, 03:31 AM
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Guys, I have found this a highly interesting and informative thread - thank you.


I am steering towards the 2030 due to my sensitivity to RBE - at present i am languishing with my first and only PJ, the Optoma HD65

What I would ideally like is LCD with a little better contrast (and maybe black levels) than the HD65, so can anyone who has owned both tell me how the two compare in these regards.

Any help is most appreciated, as i have little money, so if i can score gold on the 2030 i would be over the moon, i just need a little better blacks and contrast.

Many thanks smile.gif

Best,

Dan
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post #143 of 149 Old 03-12-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DanHorse View Post

Guys, I have found this a highly interesting and informative thread - thank you.


I am steering towards the 2030 due to my sensitivity to RBE - at present i am languishing with my first and only PJ, the Optoma HD65

What I would ideally like is LCD with a little better contrast (and maybe black levels) than the HD65, so can anyone who has owned both tell me how the two compare in these regards.

Any help is most appreciated, as i have little money, so if i can score gold on the 2030 i would be over the moon, i just need a little better blacks and contrast.

Many thanks smile.gif

The HD65 was pretty good when released - but at this point, it's rather old and had a fairly dated color wheel (according to here, with 4 segments and only 4-speed). It also was known to be particularly prone to rainbows. Most newer DLP projectors (Optomas or otherwise) will fair better.

I'm very rainbow sensitive and with my W1070 (which has a much more modern 6-speed, 6-segment RGBRGB wheel), I see almost no rainbows whatsoever when running at a 50hz refresh rate; which is what I now use for everything. At 60Hz, it's a tad worse (but still excellent). But at 24hz (the default output of most blu-ray players), I see them everywhere. If your output device runs at (or gives you the option to run at) 50hz/60hz, its definitely still worth considering for the RBE sensitive (I recommend it all the time and would consider another one for the lounge!). But if not, move along. Regardless, you can be sure that no matter the framerate, rainbows - even at 24hz - would still be significantly less of an issue here than with your HD65. (We've had a bit more discussion about this, here).

The Epson 2030 is a good device too. The brightness non-uniformity discussed above with regards to the 2030 is actually an issue with the W1070 as well in some units (and to be expected at the price-point, I guess); but it shouldn't be perceivable when watching videos in either case; so it should be a non-issue. The only real concern is convergence (which was discussed earlier in the thread); so you might want to ensure there's a decent returns policy just in case: coming from a DLP, you'll definitely be expecting sharpness.

Otherwise, most of the pro's and con's of each are covered pretty thoroughly in this thread: I don't think you'd feel like you made a mistake going either way.

If you can't decide then revert to rule number one: pick the one that suits your setup best in terms of throw distance!
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Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post


The HD65 was pretty good when released - but at this point, it's rather old and had a fairly dated color wheel (according to here, with 4 segments and only 4-speed). It also was known to be particularly prone to rainbows. Most newer DLP projectors (Optomas or otherwise) will fair better.

I'm very rainbow sensitive and with my W1070 (which has a much more modern 6-speed, 6-segment RGBRGB wheel), I see almost no rainbows whatsoever when running at a 50hz refresh rate; which is what I now use for everything. At 60Hz, it's a tad worse (but still excellent). But at 24hz (the default output of most blu-ray players), I see them everywhere. If your output device runs at (or gives you the option to run at) 50hz/60hz, its definitely still worth considering for the RBE sensitive (I recommend it all the time and would consider another one for the lounge!). But if not, move along. Regardless, you can be sure that no matter the framerate, rainbows - even at 24hz - would still be significantly less of an issue here than with your HD65. (We've had a bit more discussion about this, here).

The Epson 2030 is a good device too. The brightness non-uniformity discussed above with regards to the 2030 is actually an issue with the W1070 as well in some units (and to be expected at the price-point, I guess); but it shouldn't be perceivable when watching videos in either case; so it should be a non-issue. The only real concern is convergence (which was discussed earlier in the thread); so you might want to ensure there's a decent returns policy just in case: coming from a DLP, you'll definitely be expecting sharpness.

Otherwise, most of the pro's and con's of each are covered pretty thoroughly in this thread: I don't think you'd feel like you made a mistake going either way.

If you can't decide then revert to rule number one: pick the one that suits your setup best in terms of throw distance!

 

Is there a way to force 50hz? Sounds like a PAL setting that we wouldn't be able to use in the US. I have definitely noticed the superiority of 60hz vs 24hz though in movies. I have everything set to only do 60hz now, but would be curious about seeing 50. 

 

I know this is kind of a stupid question, just wondering if there would be a way to force it, since I am curious to see if it's really rainbow free.

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Is there a way to force 50hz? Sounds like a PAL setting that we wouldn't be able to use in the US. I have definitely noticed the superiority of 60hz vs 24hz though in movies. I have everything set to only do 60hz now, but would be curious about seeing 50. 

I know this is kind of a stupid question, just wondering if there would be a way to force it, since I am curious to see if it's really rainbow free.

Nope; refresh rate unfortunately needs to be specified by the input device (so your bluray player/console/etc); it's not something the display device has control over.

This will explain why you get the significant improvement you noticed in 60Hz vs 24Hz:
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You are right.
Here are the results:
1080p24 - 192Hz so effective color wheel speed - 3.2x (192Hz/60Hz=3.2)!!!!
1080p50 - 300Hz so effective color wheel speed - 5x (300Hz/60Hz=5).
1080p60 - 240Hz.so effective color wheel speed - 4x (240Hz/60Hz=4)

So, if you are RBE sensitive - use 1080p50Hz

You'll see the jump in effective spin rate between inputs at 60Hz and 50Hz is as large is it is from 24Hz to 60Hz; so you'd definitely see further improvement. (As I say, I barely see any RBE at all at 50hz)

If you want to test, the most common device that supports outputting at 50Hz will be a PC (I use OpenELEC on HTPCs/RaspberryPi's throughout my house; but you can plug in any laptop and change the refresh rate to 50hz under Screen Resolution settings.) Some bluray players might let you force this as well; as well as some AVRs (if they support upscaling)...

What really baffles me is why BenQ went for such an average speed for 24p. Yes, it's faster than the equivalent Optomas they're competing with and yes, most people aren't that susceptible to RBE in the first palce; but they really could've gone much, much faster and still been within their constraints.
I went into a lot of mathematical detail about this here (caution: it's a bit of a rant wink.gif )

The good news is, this is really something that could potentially be addressed in a firmware update: i.e., a setting to run at maximum color wheel speed (or 'Color Wheel Multiplier') possible for the current input framerate (just like we already have control over maximizing fan speed via High-Altitude mode) wouldn't be very tough for BenQ to do. In fact some of BenQ's other projectors have service menus that already let you do just this. The only question is whether they'd actually do it.

Again: I'm not trying to bash the W1070 here; it's truly fantastic and I've loved every one of the 1300 hours I've spent with it in the last year (and I recommend it to everyone). I'm just curious as to this engineering decision on their part.

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post #146 of 149 Old 03-13-2014, 10:04 AM
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Yeah, makes sense, and none of my input devices have 50hz settings. 60hz is so much better than 24hz for movies though based on my recent findings. Whereas I was 60% happy for movies in terms of RBE before, I am now 90% happy. I can live with it at 60, but I will definitely not be enabling 24hz outputs on any of my blu ray players from here on out. 

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The Epson will be hard to say goodbye to because: 1. The warranty that no company can beat, 2. Less fan noise, 3. Newer 3D glasses technology, 4. No Rainbows.
I bought an Epson 2000 from Amazon ($729), and I had to return it for two reasons, there was a focus issue on some parts of the image, and the worst part, the fan was driving me crazy.

But I'm confused because most people here do not mention the noise, and so I believe I might have gotten a lemon, so I-m trying a new unit, but if you see the previous quote from butie120 he mentions that the 2030 (the 2000 is basically the same projector), is LESS noisy than the W1070, so, what is the truth?

By the way, I-m currently using a GT700 (optoma), and it makes virtually no noise. Any comments?
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post #148 of 149 Old 04-13-2014, 06:22 AM
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I bought an Epson 2000 from Amazon ($729), and I had to return it for two reasons, there was a focus issue on some parts of the image, and the worst part, the fan was driving me crazy.

But I'm confused because most people here do not mention the noise, and so I believe I might have gotten a lemon, so I-m trying a new unit, but if you see the previous quote from butie120 he mentions that the 2030 (the 2000 is basically the same projector), is LESS noisy than the W1070, so, what is the truth?

By the way, I-m currently using a GT700 (optoma), and it makes virtually no noise. Any comments?

If I remember correctly on the Epson 2030 when you go from "Normal" to "Eco" there is a change in the fan noise. It came down quite noticeably if I remember correctly. I own the 1080ST so I can say with first hand experience that going from "Normal" to "Eco" does not impact the fan noise. The 1070 isn't quiet, but not overly loud either.

That being said, the 1070 put out a better looking picture. Colors were richer and it just has that film look to it that the Epson didn't seem to have (others may disagree with me on that). RBE shouldn't be an issue for most folks since it has a faster color wheel than mostly all other PJs at this price point.
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post #149 of 149 Old 04-13-2014, 08:12 AM
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If I remember correctly on the Epson 2030 when you go from "Normal" to "Eco" there is a change in the fan noise. It came down quite noticeably if I remember correctly. I own the 1080ST so I can say with first hand experience that going from "Normal" to "Eco" does not impact the fan noise. The 1070 isn't quiet, but not overly loud either.
You are correct, going from normal to eco the fan was much less noisy. But it was still very much loud, to the point where I believe it has to be a faulty unit, so I returned it to amazon, and i'm waiting for my 2nd unit.

Now, since you kept the 1080ST, I can assume that the noise is not that bad?
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That being said, the 1070 put out a better looking picture. Colors were richer and it just has that film look to it that the Epson didn't seem to have (others may disagree with me on that). RBE shouldn't be an issue for most folks since it has a faster color wheel than mostly all other PJs at this price point.
The image of the 2000 was very nice, so that was not a problem.

The main issue for me was the noise of the fan.

Maybe I'm spoiled by the GT700, which makes almost no sound at all.
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