BenQ W1070 vs. Epson 2030 direct comparison (yes, I have both) - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-13-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post
Velconti isn't totally correct with those data above.

1080p50 can only be 50Hz (industrial standard, this is on W1070's manual too, page 59) so:

1080p50 = 300Hz, so the effective color wheel speed would be 6x (300/50 = 6x)

From http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq...e=Key-Features
"6X Speed Color Wheel. The W1070 has a six-segment color wheel in the theater-optimized RGBRGB configuration. This wheel layout maximizes color without artificially boosting white, and is preferred for its ability to render natural color. What's more, the wheel gives an effective refresh rate of six times per frame. This should eliminate color separation artifacts (rainbows) for all but the most hypersensitive of viewers."
Sort of.

Color Wheel Revolution Rate (Hz) if a fixed measure of how fast a CW spins (ie how many times per second).
Since one or more whole-number revolutions is required per input frame, the Color Wheel Revolution Rate needs to vary depending input framerate.

Color Wheel Multiplier (x) indicates how many times per input frame it spins.

So velconti's results indicate a Multiplier of 8x for 24Hz (24Hz * 8 = 192Hz rate); a Multiplier of 4x for 60Hz (60Hz * 4 = 240Hz rate); and a Multiplier of 6x for 50Hz (50Hz * 6 = 300Hz rate).


To standardize for this, velconti indicates that the industry standard for measuring Color Wheel Speed is actually against a 60Hz input signal: so while you get a 300Hz Revolution Rate against a 50Hz input signal (ie, a multiplier of 6x), technically Color Wheel Speed at 50hz is actually 300Hz / 60Hz = 5x. So the 6x Multiplier works out to be 5x speed. And at 60Hz, it's 240Hz / 60Hz = 4x.

But admittedly while it does make sense, part of the confusion stems from the fact color wheel speeds are often not published - and that the standardization is subject to a bit of... interpretation

Like ProjectorCentral says, though, 300Hz @ 50Hz input is fast enough to practically eliminate rainbows for all but the most sensitive of viewers.

BenQ W1070 Projector; Xtreamer Ultra 2 (running XBMC on OpenELEC) via Sony STR-DH540 AVR with Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS SE 5.1 Audio. MediaBrowser3 for Mobile Streaming.

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Old 10-13-2014, 04:47 PM
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That's still a bit confusing, but I think I get it...

If the input rate is 50hz, and the output rate is 50hz, and the color wheel speed is 300hz, then it IS a 6x color wheel. Still, I get that in comparison to 60hz you aren't actually gaining 50% color wheel speed from 4x to 6x, but seeing a jump from a 240hz color wheel speed to a 300hz color wheel speed. That's a 25% jump in speed (4 times 1.25 = 5). It's still a 6x color wheel. But, not really. But really.

Like most manufacturers, BenQ can claim a 6x color wheel speed... Heck, they could claim far more.

192hz color wheel speed at 24fps = 8x color wheel speed.... but not really.

The actual speed of the color wheel seems to be what matters. Keeping in mind 300hz is actually half that speed. (RGB/RGB color wheel) So, the wheel is spinning at 9000 RPM with 50hz material. 7,200 RPM with 60hz material. 5,760 with 24hz material? Okay. 3D is supposed to be 144hz. Someone explain all that to me.

Sigh - I still see some color separation (RBE) with the W1070, but it doesn't give me headaches or eye fatigue, so I'm quite happy.

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Old 10-13-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
That's still a bit confusing, but I think I get it...

The actual speed of the color wheel seems to be what matters. Keeping in mind 300hz is actually half that speed. (RGB/RGB color wheel) So, the wheel is spinning at 9000 RPM with 50hz material. 7,200 RPM with 60hz material. 5,760 with 24hz material? Okay. 3D is supposed to be 144hz. Someone explain all that to me.

Sigh - I still see some color separation (RBE) with the W1070, but it doesn't give me headaches or eye fatigue, so I'm quite happy.

Exactly.

And yeah, it is a bit confusing. The proper way for manufacturers to publish wheel speeds should actually be a table of multipliers (or even actual Revolution Rates) for each input refresh-rate (maybe an extra column on the supported input-resolution table?) - since as you say, that's what really matters.
Anyone watching Bluray will care about 24Hz. Many in, say, the US watching broadcast content will care about 60Hz; since that's common in broadcast. Likewise many watching broadcast content in the UK will care about 50Hz.

On the W1070, with an ear to the vent, you can actually hear the (very faint) whine of the wheel as its speed changes with rate; which is why I'm confident velconti's measurements are correct (or at least correct relative to each other).

It'd be nice if the 'rough' speeds were more consistent across differing rates; but in the case of the W1070, due to the the doubled-up color wheel (RGB/RGB), I can understand why the physical Revolution Rate might go down when input-refresh-rate is swapped up from 50Hz to 60Hz: but what I can't figure out is why 24Hz should be comparatively low (I ranted about this here! ).

As for 3D - I'd be guessing: but my understanding is that triple-flash (144Hz) is only active on 24Hz input (ie, most 3D Blurays). To achieve this, I suspect they'd have to use a minimum of a 6x multiplier (24Hz * 6 = 144Hz); with half of those frames going to each eye in succession (L-R-L/R-L-R) to give each eye the same frame 3 times. If I listen to the wheel, though, it sounds like it's spinning at nearly-2D/50Hz levels in 3D/24Hz (or at least certainly higher than the 192Hz used for 2D/24Hz); so is it possible that the multiplier is 12 instead? (24Hz * 12 = 288Hz - which is just below the 300Hz that 2D/50Hz produces; so the motor can presumably handle it; and if the nett result is L-L-R-R-L-L/R-R-L-L-R-R; that'd still be the same frame repeated three times per eye, just with less RBE). Heck, perhaps the wheel is spinning at even a bit faster than this; with a few of those additional revolutions going towards blanking frames for red-flash sync with the glasses... Woah, now I'm off on a tangent! Pretty intriguing, though.

But yeah, as far as RBE goes: the W1070 compares favorably. And the complexity associated with specifying wheel speeds at differing input rates is probably why '6x' - which is high compared to the competition - does the trick on a spec sheet. (On the HT1075 Spec-Sheet, they even explicitly specify '6X (50Hz)' as the 'Color Wheel Speed').

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