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Old 10-08-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm new to the forum, but not entirely to projectors. I had an extreme budget system that went out completely earlier this year. It was an off the shelf pull down screen(which I still have, but limited my 16:9 size to ~76" and is creased permanently in a corner) and an Epson EX70. Having never had a projector before and also being my first HD setup I was happy with the results at the price point I paid for it (~$800 with screen from Best Buy). That model was a 720P budget projector(1280x800 actually). That said I plan to take the plunge and upgrade to 1080P 3D and a larger better quality screen. The room has decent light control but not perfect(Living room with blackout curtains, but some light gets through Read: As enough to read a book during the day).  The room itself is large enough to accommodate even a 140"+ screen(25' across with plenty of wall space and an in-ceiling outlet). and I have fairly high ceilings. As far as mounting goes, I plan to ceiling mount.

Next is budget. My budget for my new system is planned to be around the $4,000 mark total and needs to include the screen screen as well.

My first question is would you recommend going with a sub-$1500 projector and buying a high end screen such as a FireHawk G4(liking what I see of the new G4 material, but going to wait for reviews) or would it be better to going with a higher end projector(~$3000) and a lower-end screen(<$1,000)?

(Note: If I go with the higher projector, I'll have to wait a few months for budget reasons, but if I go with the higher screen, I use my old one until I hit the budget I need and pull the trigger on the projector sooner)

I plan on using it for 3D gaming a good amount(PS3 & 360) along with mostly HD TV(via cable), and a limited amount of Blu-ray(2D & 3D via PS3).

Currently, I'm thinking of going for an Optoma 25-LV(due to planned screen size) and using the remain budget on as large of a FireHawk G4 as I can get within my wall space/budget(Should be approx 135" and just over $3,000).

Thanks in advance for your advice,
Chuck

Edit: Also it should also be noted the walls and ceiling are white, but the floor is carpeted and a dark blue.

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Old 10-09-2013, 02:12 AM
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If you plan on doing a lot of 3d gaming I would be looking at the Benq w7000 which can be had new for around $2000 or refurbished for around $1500. I have not come across a sub $10,000 projector that can touch this projector in terms of its 3d performance. The sacrifice is the black levels whilst not terrible are weaker then other non dlp projectors in its price range. However if you go with a dlp projector like the benq w7000 you will essentially have zero crosstalk, whereas lcd projectors etc have a lot in comparison. My point is if 3d is important to you go with a DLP projector.

With your room and a Benq w7000 (or similar projector) I would recommend going with a white screen with a lowish gain (probably around 1.3, though you should contact the screen manufactorers and have them send you out some samples once you get your projector so you can see which one you would like for yourself), if you screen size was a little smaller and you where not worrying about the future I would go with a grey screen to get some deeper blacks and better contrast.

How far away from the screen will your seats be? I ask this as 130" is massive and unless you have a really big room it is probably to big (especially for console fps games that more often then not have a very narrow fov). For example with a 130" screen THX guidelines recommends you sit 14.5 feet (around 4.4 meters) away from it.

Is your budget just for the screen and projector or does it also for buying a sound system? If it is not for both you could easily get a nice screen and a nice projector without limiting yourself to one or the other.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Large room, ~25' x 30'. The center area is left open(for "body controller" type gaming such as Kinect) and seating is practically on the opposite wall from where the screen will be (Read: Primary Seating @ 20' with gaming area for Kinect type games @ 15' Range). So the screen size vs seating distance will be just about right with the layout of the room with a 140" screen.

As the BenQ  W7000 is listed as the same lumens as my old projector I feel it won't be bright enough for much 3D once I'm up to 135"+. Second is Lag time, due to the type of gaming I do for me anything over 1.5 frames is noticeable, anything over 3 frames is unacceptable and the W7000 is right at that limit(even my wife starts to notice at that point as we are both gamers, but she doesn't like 3D gaming where I do). Also, I'm not as concerned with black levels due to lack of full light control(some also sneeks in from the dining/kitchen area as I have an open floor plan) and why I believe a Grey screen is going to be best(to improve ambient light rejection and improve black levels as this was an issue with my old setup). Another issue is lamp life(even my EX70 had better life the the W7000). I don't believe the W7000 will be a good fit for my set-up.

With the set-up I listed(HD25-LV + 140" Firehawk G4), I'm looking at 30fl with a 140" 1.1 gain screen in 2D at ~15' throw with max zoom. Which means it would be plenty bright enough on the Firehawk screen in 3D with all image processing turned off(reduces lag, but also lowers brightness a bit). My old set-up also calculates to 30fl(2D only EX70 + 78" Matte White screen), but I know was much lower half way through the lamp life(at about half life I always had to switch from ECO mode). Also, I do prefer DLP to LCD for both 3D reasons and lack of filiter(the EX70's filter was a joke and less than a month in there was dirt showing in the projected image I could never get rid of...)

My sound system is being kept so the budget is for screen and projector(due to screen size I'm look at likely close to $3500 for my screen if I go with the G4, but then I'll never need another screen and can likely upgrade the projector again as 4k+ comes down in price). That put my projector budget at the $1,000 range (but the wife is also going to contribute toward it giving me ~$1500 for the projector and likely pushing total cost closer to $5K). For a screen over 130" and looking at sub-$1500 projectors, the HD25-LV seems to be my best option.


Those are the models I was looking at 1080P 3D, Sub-$3000, 2500 lumen+ (due to screen size):
http://www.projectorcentral.com/parts_compare.cfm?pid_1=7476&pid_2=7705&pid_3=7723&pid_4=7423&pid_5=7456&pid_6=7655&pid_7=7726&pid_8=7548

From there, NEC was rejected due to contrast ratio. I rejected the the ViewSonic due to brightness uniformity(something I'm personally a bit sensitive to). The Acer was rejected due to 3D flicker(something I'm very sensitive to). That left me the decision of which Optoma do I get? I rejected the 501 due to lamp life and 5000 lumens is overkill. That left my final selection down to:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/parts_compare.cfm?pid_1=7476&pid_2=7705&pid_3=7723&pid_4=7655&remove_compare_list=7726

At that price range with what was left, I began looking at purchasing a high-end grey screen as I didn't see a single projector between the $1500-$3000 range that would do well at 140" in 3D with moderate ambient light. It also means I can pull the trigger immediately(else I have to wait for a bonus I'm getting in Dec) on the projector itself.


As the HD25-LV, HD25e, and HD131Xe are all very similar(haven't read much on the EH300, but likely basically black version of the HD25-LV) in terms of calibrated picture quality(with the brighter ones suffering some black level loss which is acceptable with non-dedicated and only moderately light controlled room). My old projector was black and found it distracting when there was a decent amount of ambient light(due to having a white ceiling).

So I guess my real question is, do you think the HD25e would be bright enough? Or do you think I'll need the extra kick of the HD25-LV?

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Old 10-09-2013, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Update: I've decided to go with the HD25-LV. If it turns out to be too bright, I'll get an ND filter. As someone on another thread said, it's better to have extra lumens and not need them rather than to need them and not have them.

Thanks,
Chuck (AKA Kreationz)

P.S. Has anyone checked if the only difference in the EH300 on the LV is firmware?

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Old 10-10-2013, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Update 2: Going with the HD25-LV, an Elite Screen ER135WH1(1.1 Gain), an RF 3D Transmitter and 2 pair of RF glasses (Total cost shipped: $1784.84)

With the left over budget, I've decided instead to upgrade my sound system and move my old one to the bedroom along with the fill-in Toshiba LCD I bought when the Epson went out.


Side Note: My old screen was a 4:3 Pull down Elite Screen Manual model #M80NWV (4:3 80" giving me 73" at 16:9) and giving me 42fl in Eco mode/53fl in Normal(Always used Eco until the bulb got dim and even then turned brightness down further which degraded shadow detail). The new setup should give me 32fl @ 135" which will be plenty bright(Especially considering the Optoma has 10X the contrast ratio).

Side-by-side Comparison:
Projector Epson EX70 Optoma HD25-LV
Screen Surface Elite MaxWhite Elite CineWhite
Size 73" 135"
Brightness 42fl(Eco) 32fl(Normal, no Eco on Calc)
Resolution 720P 1080P
Contrast 2,000:1 20,000:1
Bulb Life 3,000/4,000 3,500/6,000
http://www.projectorcentral.com/parts_compare.cfm?pid_1=4553&pid_2=7476


With my old setup any decent amount of light completely washed out the screen due to the low CR, but that should be improved(Or at least close due to the improved CR @ lower brightness). Also of note, the screen door effect of the 3 LCD Epson was noticeable by me and should largely be eliminated due to the higher resolution and the switch to DLP. Finally, 3D will likely mean I have to watch at night or improve my light control or get a higher gain screen when using that feature.

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Old 10-11-2013, 11:25 AM
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You want to watch 3d in a light controlled room anyway.... with light in the room it takes away from the experience and is distracting...
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

You want to watch 3d in a light controlled room anyway.... with light in the room it takes away from the experience and is distracting...


That's what I figured. I'm also picking up an Onkyo HT-S9400THX next Friday. By my birthday at the end of the month I should have a very nice budget theater system.

Note: My final total system cost after shipping and shopping around was $2546.95. Not bad for a 135" 1080P 3D system with nice 7.1 surround and all needed 3D hardware included(w/2 Pair of glasses) considering I couldn't even get a 75" flat panel at that price point.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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My new PJ came in on Fri, but I didn't get a chance to open it and check it out until Sat. Immediately upon turning it on I noticed it had the issue with the thin vertical lines that seems to be a common failure point for DLP projectors. I tried giving it a little squeeze, but it did not seem to help and I boxed it back up. Sunday, I talked with customer service for where I bought from and got an RMA number and a new one ordered. As soon as the new one arrives, I'll be shipping this one back.

Then later that evening my brother-in-law came over and I decided to show him the problem. I got out the PJ, turned it on and the lines had mysteriously vanished and after a bit of adjusting I had a nice picture on my wall where I plan the screen to go. Since everything seemed to be working, I wanted to try out the 3D. I started looking at my games only to discover, none of my PS3 or 360 games had the feature. Next, I turned to Netflix as I saw they recently began offering 3D content to everyone. On my 360, even with 3D enabled, Netflix didn't seem to offer any 3D movies in 3D. I swapped out my HDMI cable over to my PS3. After a bit of set-up on the PS3, it detected the 3D capabilities of the projector. :) Next, I started up Netflix and some programs were showing the ability to launch in 3D. Upon launching one of them however, all is get is a picture that freezes, jumps and stutters. I expected without glasses on I'd likely see two superimposed images(or SBS or T&B, etc...), but I don't even get that. It seems like it's trying to output in "Frame sequential" mode" but I don't think the PJ is detecting the PS3's output correctly. Next on my list is trying a 3D Blu-ray to ensure that it's not a streaming/networking issue, but that will be waiting until Thurs when the new one gets here. If Blu-ray 3D works and streaming 3D doesn't, I'll likely look at the firmware of the PJ next.

Note: I should have pics by this weekend, but this pic here on the forum displays a similar line issue to my PJ: http://cdn.avsforum.com/5/5f/5f27a49e_vbattach92127.jpeg

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Old 10-21-2013, 03:04 PM
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I would get it replaced for piece of mind. Which projector did you go with?
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreationz View Post

My new PJ came in on Fri, but I didn't get a chance to open it and check it out until Sat. Immediately upon turning it on I noticed it had the issue with the thin vertical lines that seems to be a common failure point for DLP projectors. I tried giving it a little squeeze, but it did not seem to help and I boxed it back up. Sunday, I talked with customer service for where I bought from and got an RMA number and a new one ordered. As soon as the new one arrives, I'll be shipping this one back.


Then later that evening my brother-in-law came over and I decided to show him the problem. I got out the PJ, turned it on and the lines had mysteriously vanished and after a bit of adjusting I had a nice picture on my wall where I plan the screen to go. Since everything seemed to be working, I wanted to try out the 3D. I started looking at my games only to discover, none of my PS3 or 360 games had the feature. Next, I turned to Netflix as I saw they recently began offering 3D content to everyone. On my 360, even with 3D enabled, Netflix didn't seem to offer any 3D movies in 3D. I swapped out my HDMI cable over to my PS3. After a bit of set-up on the PS3, it detected the 3D capabilities of the projector. smile.gif Next, I started up Netflix and some programs were showing the ability to launch in 3D. Upon launching one of them however, all is get is a picture that freezes, jumps and stutters. I expected without glasses on I'd likely see two superimposed images(or SBS or T&B, etc...), but I don't even get that. It seems like it's trying to output in "Frame sequential" mode" but I don't think the PJ is detecting the PS3's output correctly. Next on my list is trying a 3D Blu-ray to ensure that it's not a streaming/networking issue, but that will be waiting until Thurs when the new one gets here. If Blu-ray 3D works and streaming 3D doesn't, I'll likely look at the firmware of the PJ next.


Note: I should have pics by this weekend, but this pic here on the forum displays a similar line issue to my PJ: http://cdn.avsforum.com/5/5f/5f27a49e_vbattach92127.jpeg
what resolution and frequency do you have you ps3 set to output? if its sbs content your watching you want 720p @60hz if its full frame packed 1080p at 24hz . and are you using hdmi version 1.4 cables?
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
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I would get it replaced for piece of mind. Which projector did you go with?
yes on the hd 131xe thread there was talk of this being an issue from salt corrosion coming over seas causing poor contact with an electrical component and apparently these lines are often the result... sometimes the component will make good contact on powerup and sometimes they wont hence lines vs no lines.... thats the way I understand it anyway.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

I would get it replaced for piece of mind. Which projector did you go with?


That's exactly what I'm doing. It seems the issue is intermittent, but I don't want it to become a permanent issue just after the warranty expires. I went with the Optoma HD25-LV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post


what resolution and frequency do you have you ps3 set to output? if its sbs content your watching you want 720p @60hz if its full frame packed 1080p at 24hz . and are you using hdmi version 1.4 cables?


The PS3 automatically detects the output. It detects the 3D modes properly and is likely an issue with the Netflix software on the PS3 or was a connection or title specific issue(I only tried the one title via streaming). I did get to try a 3D Blu-ray(Pacific Rim 3D) last night and that worked fine, but seemed a little choppy. Good news is that the 3D was plenty bright in a darkened room without a screen and just displaying on a white wall.

Side note: My boss has told me I should get the weekend off and with the new PJ coming in Thurs I'll be able to finish everything this weekend and show off a few pics. As another side note, I am also a hobby programmer who works on a N64 emulator and knowing what I know now... I think I'm going to try to implement SBS in the emulator I work on. Zelda: Ocarina of Time in HD SBS-3D anyone?
 :cool:

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a picture of the screen on the wall displaying a 1280x720 picture of this thread. The room is actually brighter than it looks in this picture. My wife has a better camera, so I'll try to get more using hers. This photo was taken from about viewing distance.

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is one with the flash enabled. It washes out the screen, but you get a good perspective of size.

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Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Optoma Hd25 Lv 3d Home Theater Projector , Stewart , Optoma Hd131xe Dlp Projector 3d , Elite Screens Er135wh1 Sable Fixed Frame
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