Mitsubishi HC4000 VS HC5 VS HC8000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-05-2013, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I have owned an HC4000 for 2.5+ years now that we use in our dedicated HT on a 105" wide scope screen. Great budget projector! Now that Mits is no longer going to manufacture projectors, I've been thing about picking up a new one while they're still available. The HC5 would barely fill my screen if I mount it all the way to my back wall. Also, I use the HC4000's vertical position feature that allows me to move the bottom letterbox bar above the picture along with the upper letterbox bar, where they completely disappear on my Seymour Center Stage retractable screen's black top drop and velvet covered housing. Without this feature on the HC5 plus no lens memory, I think that pretty much knocks it off my list. To bad as I would really love to have the motorized zoom and focus. Will the HC8000 be enough of an improvement over the HC4000 to justify the expense, or will I pretty much be just picking up 3D which is not that much of an attraction for us? Not sure if this thread would have fit better in the $3000+ forum?
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-08-2013, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-08-2013, 08:32 PM
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DCx dlp vs. DCx dlp.

Is there much of a difference? Not sure how.
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post #4 of 22 Old 11-08-2013, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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That's what I'm wondering. Is the 8000 just a 4000 with 3D capability? If that's the case, I should just wait or buy a backup 4000.
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post #5 of 22 Old 11-12-2013, 01:06 AM
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Sharp XV-Z30000 has motorized zoom and lens shift and has lens memory. Also it has a nice dynamic iris to give better blacks than HC4000 (or HC8000 for that matter). But still 2D picture of HC5 is on another level.

See this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1456528/mitsubishi-hc5-vs-sharp-xv-z30000-as-a-single-pj-solution
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post #6 of 22 Old 11-12-2013, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Sharp XV-Z30000 has motorized zoom and lens shift and has lens memory. Also it has a nice dynamic iris to give better blacks than HC4000 (or HC8000 for that matter). But still 2D picture of HC5 is on another level.

See this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1456528/mitsubishi-hc5-vs-sharp-xv-z30000-as-a-single-pj-solution

Thought about the Sharp, however there's none left at a decent price.
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post #7 of 22 Old 11-12-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

Thought about the Sharp, however there's none left at a decent price.
"Best things to those who wait". smile.gif Are you sure HC5 won't fit your screen? And why are you considering only Mitsubishi projectors?

Also, answering your question: HC8000 won't be an improvement over HC4000. In fact, HC4000 has higher contrast (on/off and ANSI). In fact, HC4000 is an ANSI contrast champion (measured here). However, you will get a substantial improvement in 2D with an LCoS projector: either JVC, or Mitsubishi HC5, or Sony HW50/55.
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post #8 of 22 Old 11-13-2013, 01:46 AM
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The hc4000 is a good projector for 2D movies if you are not sensitive to rainbows. Out of all projectors claimed to have 4x or faster color wheels, the hc4000 has so much more RBE, and I suppose some of it was the high contrast. I have no issues with a Benq w7000's RBE in 4x color wheel mode, it has very little, but the hc4000 was like rainbow city.

That said the hc4000's image was quite underrated, it absolutely creams others in this price class at black levels (not counting Irises of course), and it did have ridiculously high ANSI, way higher than any other budget projector. The problem is Mitsubishi designed it for max contrast and didn't get the focus uniformity perfect, so for HTPC usage it isn't as good as some are.

Also, it is only 2D of course. I used to own it, but now own a Viewsonic and the Benq. Mits was better at movies if you could live with the rainbows. The hc8000 will be similar to the hc4000, but not quite as good of contrast unless you count the IRIS, but I heard the dynamic Iris on the hc8000 is not very good.

I would instead look at a JVC RS-46 as a general thing, or maybe one of the new Sony's.



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post #9 of 22 Old 11-13-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

"Best things to those who wait". smile.gif Are you sure HC5 won't fit your screen? And why are you considering only Mitsubishi projectors?

Also, answering your question: HC8000 won't be an improvement over HC4000. In fact, HC4000 has higher contrast (on/off and ANSI). In fact, HC4000 is an ANSI contrast champion (measured here). However, you will get a substantial improvement in 2D with an LCoS projector: either JVC, or Mitsubishi HC5, or Sony HW50/55.

If I move the HC5 all the way up against the curtains in the back of my HT, it might barely fill my screen. It's a 2.35 screen also, so with no lens memory that blows the deal anyway.
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post #10 of 22 Old 11-13-2013, 11:00 AM
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I thought the HC5 was supposed to have excellent blacks? The HC4000s are not so hot; how can the HC5 not be a big improvement then?
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post #11 of 22 Old 11-13-2013, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

If I move the HC5 all the way up against the curtains in the back of my HT, it might barely fill my screen. It's a 2.35 screen also, so with no lens memory that blows the deal anyway.
If that blows the deal anyway, why don't you go all-out and buy anamorphic lens? wink.gif I think you need to set your priorities straight. HC5 has motorized lens shift and zoom. It will take only 1 minute to re-calibrate the projector for 2.35:1. You have to pay for conveniences. Or alternatively, you can pick JVC RS-46 as was already suggested, it should have lens memory, it has even better blacks than HC5 (but some drawbacks as well). But also check if it will fit your screen.
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post #12 of 22 Old 11-13-2013, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Well-Maybe I should start saving for a JVC. According to Projector Central's calculator they will hit my screen size at a distance that works in my room, unlike the HC5. And lens memory as well-I really don't want to have to mess with that for a couple minutes everytime we watch a movie. What is the difference between the 2 JVC lines? Looks prettty confusing. X35 is the same as a RS-46 and so on. Why did they have to make it so complicated?confused.gif
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post #13 of 22 Old 11-15-2013, 04:44 AM
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I have owned an hc4000 and I upgraded to an hc8000. Noticeably better picture to me. I have seen the iris on the hc7800 and the hc8000 is so much better. So smooth its up there with the sony implementation. I wonder if anybody knocking the iris on the hc8000 has seen it in action?

Its not just the contrast increase I notice over the hc4000 but the picture seems to be more solid 3dimensional.

As to whether the HC5 is a better choice. Well thats a good question. I havnt seen one but I can only compare to the HC4000. I have had a Sony HW10 and a JVCHD550. To me the LCOS/SXRD has always had a feeling of looking at a pretty painting whereas the DLP look is more like looking out a window. Add to that the advantage of not having to worry about alignment issues and im sold.

Anyway the HC5 sounds interesting I would like to check it out one day. But I do like DLP and cant imagine going back to SXRD or LCOS

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/mitsubishi-hc8000d-bl-3d-dlp-projector/all-pages.html

Have you seen this review. I would have to agree with the part where he talks about brightness. For a 100inch screen no worries. But if you are going much bigger might be a good idea to check out the hc5 or something else as bright
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post #14 of 22 Old 11-15-2013, 11:47 AM
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Zombie didn't like the hc8000's IRIS, never saw it myself. The issue for me and the hc8000 would be the amount of RBE, Mits projectors in 4x mode have always had way more RBE than most others in 4x mode. It's weird, partly cause of their higher contrast.



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post #15 of 22 Old 11-15-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Zombie didn't like the hc8000's IRIS, never saw it myself. The issue for me and the hc8000 would be the amount of RBE, Mits projectors in 4x mode have always had way more RBE than most others in 4x mode. It's weird, partly cause of their higher contrast.

The hc8000 has the option to run 6x color wheel at 24hz...I don't see any RBE at 4x though. The DI on the HC8000 is pretty darn fantastic in my opinion. I think for the money the projector is a bargain at the moment. $1500 with a spare bulb
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post #16 of 22 Old 11-15-2013, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

To me the LCOS/SXRD has always had a feeling of looking at a pretty painting whereas the DLP look is more like looking out a window.
Interesting comparison. I wonder if anyone else feels the same way?
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post #17 of 22 Old 11-16-2013, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Interesting comparison. I wonder if anyone else feels the same way?

This is obviously an exaggeration on my part, and the effect is far more subtle than my crude analogy illustrates. Its hard to put a finger on it. and lens quality, calibration, etc come into play. Perhaps SXRD/LCOS are like the valve amps of the display world. A more pleasurable feeling for the eyes but not necessarily more transparent/reference.

However, having lived with multiple types of projectors this is the best way I can describe the difference in technology. LCD is definitely my least favorite technology and the pixel fill factor always gives me a digital feel to the picture.

Im patiently waiting for a New DLP Projector/ chip with
Higher than 1000:1 ANSI Contrast
Higher than 20,000:1 ON/OFF Native Contrast
FULL 1080P Motion Resolution
oh and 4k resolution .. why not
oh and maybe 2000 calibrated lumens for 3d

one day ... hehe
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post #18 of 22 Old 11-16-2013, 11:00 PM
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I agree about LCD, but how is the lens on your Mits hc8000. The one Zombie had suffered a significant focus uniformity error and had poor white level uniformity across the screen (his had a red tint on one side). Many of the Mits hc4000's suffered this same issue, are you saying your hc8000 is sharper than the hc4000?

The focus uniformity error isn't a deal-breaker in movies at all, but if you are used to Benq w7000 sharpness in HTPC usage, it does matter.

Note that the RBE is still a deal-breaker for me, you might not see RBE but you are not as sensitive as some may be. Both Zombie and I have noticed that on Mits projectors at 4x the color wheel looks more like 3x compared to others. Also the 24hz mode isn't useful as it messed up the color and contrast, more so than even the w7000 in 6x mode. The Benq w7000 is also far far brighter in 3D, so that is my third breaking point.

I do agree though at this price the Mits should make a nice projector for movies, but 3D might be tough as the bulb ages.



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post #19 of 22 Old 11-17-2013, 02:37 AM
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I agree about LCD, but how is the lens on your Mits hc8000. The one Zombie had suffered a significant focus uniformity error and had poor white level uniformity across the screen (his had a red tint on one side). Many of the Mits hc4000's suffered this same issue, are you saying your hc8000 is sharper than the hc4000?

The focus uniformity error isn't a deal-breaker in movies at all, but if you are used to Benq w7000 sharpness in HTPC usage, it does matter.

Note that the RBE is still a deal-breaker for me, you might not see RBE but you are not as sensitive as some may be. Both Zombie and I have noticed that on Mits projectors at 4x the color wheel looks more like 3x compared to others. Also the 24hz mode isn't useful as it messed up the color and contrast, more so than even the w7000 in 6x mode. The Benq w7000 is also far far brighter in 3D, so that is my third breaking point.

I do agree though at this price the Mits should make a nice projector for movies, but 3D might be tough as the bulb ages.

Yes correct.. 3D is excellent on the projector except for... Brightness. So if 3D is important then its prob not the best. As far as RBE goes. I used to see it heaps when I first saw DLP but I dont anymore so I would agree with you if you say its bad for rainbows (I probably wouldnt know even if it was)
The white level uniformity sounds like build quality issues. I havnt seen that problem. I am going to see another HC8000 next week so I will report back here as to what its like. My one was fine.

Sharpness of the HC4000 vs the HC8000. It does seem sharper to me. I know someone with an HC4000. I will see if I can take some photos of some text and compare it to a photo of the 'HC8000 and compare it here. Will be interesting.
Yes there is some focus uniformity. The W7000 sounds like one of the sharpest DLPs in this price range
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post #20 of 22 Old 11-27-2013, 06:37 AM
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Had a close look at focus uniformity on a new hc8000. This one is perfect from corner to corner. (verified with computer text) .. Maybe some of the earlier ones has this problem.
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post #21 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

Yes correct.. 3D is excellent on the projector except for... Brightness. So if 3D is important then its prob not the best. As far as RBE goes. I used to see it heaps when I first saw DLP but I dont anymore so I would agree with you if you say its bad for rainbows (I probably wouldnt know even if it was)
The white level uniformity sounds like build quality issues. I havnt seen that problem. I am going to see another HC8000 next week so I will report back here as to what its like. My one was fine.

Sharpness of the HC4000 vs the HC8000. It does seem sharper to me. I know someone with an HC4000. I will see if I can take some photos of some text and compare it to a photo of the 'HC8000 and compare it here. Will be interesting.
Yes there is some focus uniformity. The W7000 sounds like one of the sharpest DLPs in this price range

I think the Mits 8000 has a high brightness mode, which no one uses because it pushes green too much. I have an HC8000 and Sharp XV-Z30000 arriving next week and I'm going to compare the two for brightness. I have high quality filters which should correct the green push for the Mits in its high brightness mode for 3D. I'm going to give this a try. I'll be testing both projectors on three (80", 96" and 120") Day-lite HP 2.8 gain screens to see how they hold up for brightness in 3D.
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post #22 of 22 Old 11-28-2013, 06:19 PM
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I'm using a 1.0 gain screen that's 120in and brightness was suitable to me with the HC8000 and the 3D was very easy on my eyes, which is a major plus
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