Projector Life (not the lamp) - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I see 6-7 members stating either their own single performance observation with their DLP projector.
Less than 5 expressing that DLP out lasts LCD but no substantial fact to back it up. It's like if you say enough times it must be true?
I have never said that LCD outlasts DLP. You know why? Because I have no FACTS to back up that claim so I rather not post LCD propaganda.
May be one day I'll give DLP a chance again but not until the other issues are addressed, perhaps by making 3DLP projectors cheaper.

I will say this to the OP, for what he needs, room environment and the hours required, a cheap DLP would satisfy his needs if he wants to try another projector technology.
I would get one from a vendor that offers returns.

Getting a DLP projector still doesn't mean that other issues won't arise over time.
Both technologies are not issue free.

No one claimed that getting a dlp would mean issues can't arise over time, we have stated our observations that we have found dlp's have been more reliable in the long term. In fact here is something I posted early in this thread when referring to dlp "though like anything it can also have issues". I'm not sure why your making the connection that because many have had less issues with dlp that we therefore must be claiming that no issues exist, as no such claim has been made.

There are no studies available that show which tech is better in the long run, so all the OP can get is from other peoples experience and that is what he is getting. Hence I don't see why you are seeing an issue in what has been said, there are no guarantees that dlp will always last longer and I can't see any claims saying otherwise. I would suggest there is a reason why you don't see any 3 lcd projector designs in the $10,000 range and above and it has to do with picture quality and reliability.
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post #62 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 07:36 PM
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LCD tends to cost more than DLP so those with issues may look for a solution/repair rather than say replace it?
DLP tends to be cheaper so when they fail, may be most of them replace rather than repair?

Over 6 years, I've never had an LCD projector issue/failure of a polarizer.
Am I the exception or the rule. It depends on how one would gather information to post to backup their opinion/experience instead of finding facts.

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post #63 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Over 6 years, I've never had an LCD projector issue/failure of a polarizer.

How many have you had over 6 years?
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post #64 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

LCD tends to cost more than DLP so those with issues may look for a solution/repair rather than say replace it?
DLP tends to be cheaper so when they fail, may be most of them replace rather than repair?

Over 6 years, I've never had an LCD projector issue/failure of a polarizer.
Am I the exception or the rule. It depends on how one would gather information to post to backup their opinion/experience instead of finding facts.

The point is that there are no facts for how the tech actually performs as at least publicly there is no data available. So all we can go on is from others experiences. Put simply the OP's question cannot be answered by facts hence why people are giving their experiences. As for LCD's costing more then dlp, not really, dlp's have more options at both the lower and high end. LCD's tend to be in the budget area but a bit higher then the lowest cost dlp's (though there are still many comparable dlp's at the same price point as most lcd's). Comparable priced dlp's and lcd's both have there pros and cons with no tech being clearly better at the price points they compete at.
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post #65 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post



It's like saying an Xbox is better than the PS3 but we all know they both get the job done and have their own drawbacks.
.


No, it is like saying the Xbox fails more often than the PS3. And while this can not be empirically proven easily, observational evidence would seem to show that the Xbox fails more often. (especially early models)
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post #66 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 09:05 PM
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May be the rhetorical DLP propaganda will mesmerize the novice but a little research for truth will lead them to facts.
Enjoy the hugs.
I'm out. Good day & good night.

2014
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post #67 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

May be the rhetorical DLP propaganda will mesmerize the novice but a little research for truth will lead them to facts.
Enjoy the hugs.
I'm out. Good day & good night.

lol, "the propaganda". You really need to go look up what that word actually means as trying to apply it here is tenuous at best.
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post #68 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

May be the rhetorical DLP propaganda will mesmerize the novice but a little research for truth will lead them to facts.
Enjoy the hugs.
I'm out. Good day & good night.

I asked you how many lcd projectors you've owned over the last 6 years.
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post #69 of 87 Old 11-12-2013, 03:37 AM
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Purchased a Yamaha LPX-510 in November 2005.

On fourth lamp so far and no other problems. Has been set up in 6 houses in two states.

Only 1080i, but a serious workhorse for DirecTV HD, BluRay, Xbox 360, PS3, PS2.

Would like to upgrade to a Panasonic PT-AE8000, but as long as the Yamaha is working, can't justify the expense.

Jerry

ÂExperience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. Thomas Jefferson
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post #70 of 87 Old 11-12-2013, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jbichsel View Post

Purchased a Yamaha LPX-510 in November 2005.

On fourth lamp so far and no other problems. Has been set up in 6 houses in two states.

Only 1080i, but a serious workhorse for DirecTV HD, BluRay, Xbox 360, PS3, PS2.

Would like to upgrade to a Panasonic PT-AE8000, but as long as the Yamaha is working, can't justify the expense.

If you have made it this long and the bulb will likely last another year if your looking to spend several thousand I would be waiting out for next years models as well, if you are looking/considering a budget upgrade and your current bulb is dimming I wouldn't be waiting. It is nice to hear from someone who has had an lcd that has lasted so long. smile.gif
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post #71 of 87 Old 11-12-2013, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

If you have made it this long and the bulb will likely last another year if your looking to spend several thousand I would be waiting out for next years models as well, if you are looking/considering a budget upgrade and your current bulb is dimming I wouldn't be waiting. It is nice to hear from someone who has had an lcd that has lasted so long. smile.gif

I agree. So far the latest lamp is working fine, haven't checked the hours in a while but I think it should only be about 1,000. Average life on these lamps has been right around 2,800. Will have to play some Skyrim tonight and check the hours. Yes, even at age 51 (52 in a couple of weeks) I love video games.

Jerry

ÂExperience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. Thomas Jefferson
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post #72 of 87 Old 11-12-2013, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jbichsel View Post

I agree. So far the latest lamp is working fine, haven't checked the hours in a while but I think it should only be about 1,000. Average life on these lamps has been right around 2,800. Will have to play some Skyrim tonight and check the hours. Yes, even at age 51 (52 in a couple of weeks) I love video games.

Skyrim is not gaming, it is a way of life. cool.gif
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post #73 of 87 Old 11-12-2013, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Skyrim is not gaming, it is a way of life. cool.gif

Ha ha. I know what you mean, but at 51, I know the difference between gaming and real life. smile.gif

Have to have time for wife, archery, reloading, etc.

But now that the kids are in college this year, a bit more free time in between honey-do's.

Jerry

ÂExperience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. Thomas Jefferson
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post #74 of 87 Old 11-12-2013, 12:04 PM
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I had a Hitachi PJ-TX100 for maybe four years that developed a problem that caused the warning light to go red. Can't remember what was replaced, it cost about $300 CAD. Sold it a year after being fixed to a co-worker. After 1 year, they sold to to another co-worker who as far as I know still has it. We're both at different companies now, but I should check with him.
I replaced the Hitachi with an Epson HC-720 that I had for two years. It was in a demo room & had a lot of hours on it when I bought it. It came with a spare lamp so I replaced that after a year or so. I sold that almost 2 years ago to a neighbour & it's still going strong in his basement.
When I sold that one, I bought an Epson 8345. I'm guessing it's got about 600 hours on it & other than the occasional flickering on eco mode, I haven't had a problem with it.
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post #75 of 87 Old 11-13-2013, 01:53 PM
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We have hundreds of DLP projectors in our classrooms and the failure rate is reasonably high. They are on 6+ hours a day and some last less than one year and others for more than 6. Many have bad color wheels or DLP chip failures. We always keep spares around and buy extended warranties when the warranty is justified and not more than simply buying a new projector after two years.

There is no magic bullet. Anything that has moving parts or degrades with heat is not going to last forever. Pick your poison!

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post #76 of 87 Old 11-13-2013, 04:18 PM
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"DLP chip failures" within six years of use at six hours per day equals approximately 13.000 hours of use. Texas Instruments long ago tested its DMD chips and found its MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) to be about 100.000 hours, so i would imagine that the failures you have experienced are not related to the chips but to something else; DMD chips are known for their longevity and robustness.
As for color wheels used in DLP projectors, Texas Instruments also ran tests on them and found MTBF of 25.000 hours of use, on average.
As you pointed out, the main problem is extreme internal temperature generated by the use of UHP/xenon lamps and that fact is the main reason for organic LCD chip failure and LCD polarizer block failure.
Insofar as failure rate for inorganic LCD chips i haven't read much about it but if i remember correctly some members here at AVS have reported some instances.
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post #77 of 87 Old 11-13-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

We have hundreds of DLP projectors in our classrooms and the failure rate is reasonably high. They are on 6+ hours a day and some last less than one year and others for more than 6. Many have bad color wheels or DLP chip failures. We always keep spares around and buy extended warranties when the warranty is justified and not more than simply buying a new projector after two years.

There is no magic bullet. Anything that has moving parts or degrades with heat is not going to last forever. Pick your poison!

We also need to differentiate between home theater use and class room use as the projectors are usually different and more to the point not many have there home theater projector on for 6 hours every day which of course means the wear is different. I'm not disagreeing with any of your points btw, just thought the distinction should also be present. smile.gif
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post #78 of 87 Old 11-14-2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

We also need to differentiate between home theater use and class room use as the projectors are usually different and more to the point not many have there home theater projector on for 6 hours every day which of course means the wear is different. I'm not disagreeing with any of your points btw, just thought the distinction should also be present. smile.gif

Well, the earlier poster said he uses his for 8 hours a day on weekends and puts thousands of hours on his LCD and the panels degrade badly requiring a new pj.

Our school usage is only for 5 days a week for 9 months. So, it is probably averages around 3.5 -4 hours a day when taken over the course of a year. That is not really what I would call overuse.

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post #79 of 87 Old 11-14-2013, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Well, the earlier poster said he uses his for 8 hours a day on weekends and puts thousands of hours on his LCD and the panels degrade badly requiring a new pj.

Our school usage is only for 5 days a week for 9 months. So, it is probably averages around 3.5 -4 hours a day when taken over the course of a year. That is not really what I would call overuse.

Honestly I assumed the OP's usage of 5000 hours in two years was an error as that would equal 7 hours a day. Whilst one could of course use a projector this much at home I would say it is a misnomer and not the norm which as this thread seemed to have drifted to simply discussing which techs we have found most reliable I felt was a relevant consideration.

Also averaging the hours also is no doubt problematic as using a projector for one hour every day will no doubt have different effect then using it once a week for seven hours in the long run. Can anyone confirm if this is correct or incorrect?
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post #80 of 87 Old 11-18-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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my math goes to 5.5 hours a day and for the one and only screen in the house i think is pretty ok i think it's a realistic number based on my family usage patterns.

 

another problem i can think of is the ambient temperature, since i'm located in California this may have also an effect on the life of LCD panels.

 

 

i was looking at the JVC and Sony LCoS projectors and they can fit if you can get a good deal under 3K usd (MSRP is over but street price is sometimes under) 

 

i was also looking at the upcoming laser projectors (DLP mostly) i see a few under or close to 3K (street price) but i think we may need to wait 1-2 more years before technology gets mature enough, but promising 20K+ hours on the lamp sounds nice and also having like 3-4K lumens is also nice for living room usage.

 

if prices come down LCoS + laser may be a technology that will keep the projectors going for longer with less parts failure. (i see something in 8K range from Sony VPL-FHZ55)

 

 

off topic price vs reliability now looking more i see:

Sony VPL-HW55ES  = a bit under 3K (will this hold for at least 9K hours)

Panasonic PT-AR100U = 1.3K (if this holds for 4-5K hours for same money -3K- i get ~9K hours)

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post #81 of 87 Old 11-18-2013, 05:40 PM
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my math goes to 5.5 hours a day and for the one and only screen in the house i think is pretty ok i think it's a realistic number based on my family usage patterns.

i was looking at the JVC and Sony LCoS projectors and they can fit if you can get a good deal under 3K usd (MSRP is over but street price is sometimes under) 

i was also looking at the upcoming laser projectors (DLP mostly) i see a few under or close to 3K (street price) but i think we may need to wait 1-2 more years before technology gets mature enough, but promising 20K+ hours on the lamp sounds nice and also having like 3-4K lumens is also nice for living room usage

and a dream for 3d. I would love that (as long as I could clamp the iris for 2d).
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post #82 of 87 Old 11-18-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hotjt133 View Post

I do not see many people claim their LCD last long. Well, there are some, but judging by the number of posters here the good DLP far exceeds good LCD.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1253064/who-has-the-oldest-projector-me

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post #83 of 87 Old 11-20-2013, 01:40 AM
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I've not read through the whole thread but it seems like the op hammers his PJ so I'm not surprised by the life expectancy. I mean normal mode, daily use, 9 hr's at weekends, hot climate etc.
It's like anything, run it at the max all the time and you are going to experience shorter life.
How long would your car engine last if you hammered that daily and revved the balls off it all the time?
In my mind HT PJ's are not replacements for normal T.V's, they are for occasional use. I had my NEC for over 10 years ( still got it) and the picture is still crisp and the original bulb still bright and this got used regularly over it's lifetime. Only in the last year or so has it showed signs of deterioration to the panels due to image retention on the blue panel.
I would expect a decent modern PJ to last even longer with 'Normal' use.
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post #84 of 87 Old 11-20-2013, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post

I've not read through the whole thread but it seems like the op hammers his PJ so I'm not surprised by the life expectancy. I mean normal mode, daily use, 9 hr's at weekends, hot climate etc.
It's like anything, run it at the max all the time and you are going to experience shorter life.
How long would your car engine last if you hammered that daily and revved the balls off it all the time?
In my mind HT PJ's are not replacements for normal T.V's, they are for occasional use. I had my NEC for over 10 years ( still got it) and the picture is still crisp and the original bulb still bright and this got used regularly over it's lifetime. Only in the last year or so has it showed signs of deterioration to the panels due to image retention on the blue panel.
I would expect a decent modern PJ to last even longer with 'Normal' use.

Well buses are frequently used for 8+ hours a day for over a decade. But I do agree with your general sentiment, HT projectors are probably not designed with such heavy and frequent use.
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post #85 of 87 Old 11-20-2013, 04:31 AM
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Well yes, but buses are also designed for the job and also are regularly maintained. Who knows what the wear and tear is like and which parts need often changing?
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post #86 of 87 Old 11-20-2013, 04:45 AM
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Well yes, but buses are also designed for the job and also are regularly maintained. Who knows what the wear and tear is like and which parts need often changing?

I have some idea, but that was the point of the second half of the sentence. smile.gif Even 2 to 3 hours a day on average would be fine for most projectors I would venture a guess. But 6+ every day, I would want to be looking at something closer to a commercial level projector or simply accept that they will not last for all that long.
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post #87 of 87 Old 01-15-2014, 09:22 PM
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What is wrong with my projector??
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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