Projector Life (not the lamp) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 87 Old 11-07-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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How many hours is a projector supposed to work ?

 

i bought a LCD projector -> used it for a while -> changed the lamp -> used it for some more polarizer got in such a bad state that was unusable -> i bought another LCD projector -> used it for a while -> lamp changed again -> now polarizer is on it's way out again.

 

already went through 2 projectors in last 4-5 years and now and because it's time for a 3rd i would prefer something that will last more than 2 years (4k-5K hours)

 

i use the lamp on normal (not low)

the fan speed on max

the filter is cleaned

i'm located in SoCal so the temps during summer get quite high

projector stays on even 8-10 hours at a time (during weekends)

 

 

So now in 2013 brink of 2014 is there any projector that has a better life expectancy ?

 

 

 

PS: i found this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/518263/projector-life-question but is very old 2005 and closed

about DLP http://www.avsforum.com/t/1235880/dlp-projector-life-span

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post #2 of 87 Old 11-07-2013, 05:38 PM
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That's what worries me about LCD projectors.

I bought a DLP projector -> used it for several years, even putting several hundred extra hours on the lamp beyond when it recommend I should change it -> looked so good several years later with a used up lamp that someone bought it on the spot after watching it for 30 minutes.

I don't think that story could be said about non-DLP projectors,which drives me nuts because I really want the Epson 5030.
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post #3 of 87 Old 11-07-2013, 07:01 PM
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over 4 years ago I bought a used Mitsubishi HC3000 DLP with 4000 hours on it, installed a new lamp, and put over 3000 hours on it. Just upgraded to 1080p with a used Planar DLP built 2008-2010 with unknown hours (has not total time clock I have found) but I expect it has seen a good bit of use.. I expect to put a another 4000 hours on it if all goes well. Neither of these were entry level projectors when they were new on the market.. The Mitsubishi is in a drawer as backup or maybe I will find a use for it sometime in the future as it will still be just as good in 4 years sitting still as it is now .. apparently that can not be said for LCD..
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post #4 of 87 Old 11-07-2013, 10:41 PM
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LCD often starts having issues after a few thousand hours, this is the result of the kind of panels they use. If you want a projector to last longer dlp is the way to go (though like anything it can also have issues, but it is less common). There is a reason most cinemas use dlp.

As for LCOS I cannot say as I don't have the knowledge to comment.
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post #5 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 05:29 AM
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I'm a DLP guy too but lets not forget the color wheel issues that supposedly are so common.... and the fact that if your a member here someone will point out the rainbow effect which can drive some people nuts... others it doesnt bother until someone tells them about it . I read somewhere that somewhere around 7% of people were bothered by rainbow s but there are other factors like screen size and viewing distance but I'm getting off topic so back to reliability...

Theres also dead pixels but thats not a common problem with dlp chips in most projectors and those that do experience it often have a poorly engineered heat sink setup for the chip or a very dirty enviroment and the heat sink gets plugged up.

BTW,I I've had 5 dlps in my 11-12 years of projector use and 4 of them are still going today as either a bedroom setup,backup or my uncles home theater...
my original x1 got a noisy color wheel motor and the ballast finally died for the bulb while a friend had it as his primary tv.
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post #6 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

I'm a DLP guy too but lets not forget the color wheel issues that supposedly are so common.... and the fact that if your a member here someone will point out the rainbow effect which can drive some people nuts... others it doesnt bother until someone tells them about it .
my original x1 got a noisy color wheel motor and the ballast finally died for the bulb while a friend had it as his primary tv.

I think if you look at the units that commonly had failures you will see they were not mid or high end units.. There is a price to be payed for low MSRP..
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post #7 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

I think if you look at the units that commonly had failures you will see they were not mid or high end units.. There is a price to be payed for low MSRP..
Good point but We are in the >$3,000 forum section right? do the high end lcd sets still have as many polarizer failures? I only speak about what I'm familiar with and all of my very reliable DLP units have been under $1,200...mostly optoma units.
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post #8 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

Good point but We are in the >$3,000 forum section right? do the high end lcd sets still have as many polarizer failures? I only speak about what I'm familiar with and all of my very reliable DLP units have been under $1,200...mostly optoma units.

Mine was a Mitsubishi DLP HD1000U, under $1000 and without issue for ~5 years.
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post #9 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

I'm a DLP guy too but lets not forget the color wheel issues that supposedly are so common.... and the fact that if your a member here someone will point out the rainbow effect which can drive some people nuts... others it doesnt bother until someone tells them about it . I read somewhere that somewhere around 7% of people were bothered by rainbow s but there are other factors like screen size and viewing distance but I'm getting off topic so back to reliability...

Theres also dead pixels but thats not a common problem with dlp chips in most projectors and those that do experience it often have a poorly engineered heat sink setup for the chip or a very dirty enviroment and the heat sink gets plugged up.

BTW,I I've had 5 dlps in my 11-12 years of projector use and 4 of them are still going today as either a bedroom setup,backup or my uncles home theater...
my original x1 got a noisy color wheel motor and the ballast finally died for the bulb while a friend had it as his primary tv.

I do think the RBE is greatly exaggerated. I have had probably one hundred people watch a dlp in my house over the years and not one has ever mentioned anything about it. The color wheel of course can die, just like any hardware there can be faults. It just seems to be noticeably less of an issue with dlp's.
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post #10 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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looks like i need to look into those DLP projectors, bought my LCD projector because there was a big hype around it being a grate gaming projector, i'll have to see one under 3K usd to see if i notice the rainbows and see how much lag they have (if any) maybe those will be a lucky one for me to hold at least 6K-10K hours not just 4K 

 

now about the LCD block + lamp if it comes to price of replacement  = 800 to 1000 usd = better buy a new projector

if i replace just the polarizer the blue one (although kind of all of them start degrading more or less in time) = 120 usd per polarizer

now for DLP if the color wheel fails is <200 usd to replace i think

how about a DLP chip and how prone are those to failure ?

 

now how would you rate the complexity of replacing a polarizer in a LCD versus a wheel in a DLP projector ( i know it varies from model to model but maybe there is a general vibe around this)

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post #11 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 02:45 PM
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^ I can't say, I have owned one lcd and it failed on myself three times before I sold it on (and never again will I pay for an lcd unless the deal is ludicrously good). I have used various dlp's for over 10 years and never once had a failure beyond the bulb needing to be replaced (so obviously I can't comment on how hard it is to repair one). Remember this is just my experience and what I have seen which may be a misnomer (though I doubt it is).

But yes whilst I think the RBE is greatly exaggerated in case you do see it it is best to check out some dlp's to make sure you don't before considering a purchase. I also want to stress I have no idea how lcos is over the long run and that would be well worth looking into as well.
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post #12 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 03:06 PM
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I believe lcos is only for a dedicated dark theater if it matters.... I believe they are lower lumens but could be wrong as I am in the dark about them too other than the fact that they are supposed to have great picture qualities.
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post #13 of 87 Old 11-08-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post

I believe lcos is only for a dedicated dark theater if it matters.... I believe they are lower lumens but could be wrong as I am in the dark about them too other than the fact that they are supposed to have great picture qualities.

They actually work just fine outside of dark dedicated theaters. It is just the advantage of their biggest draw is reduced when you do so (the black levels).
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post #14 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

I do think the RBE is greatly exaggerated. I have had probably one hundred people watch a dlp in my house over the years and not one has ever mentioned anything about it. The color wheel of course can die, just like any hardware there can be faults. It just seems to be noticeably less of an issue with dlp's.
That's because most people who see RBE doesn't know what it is when they see it.
It can easily be seen on a black and white movie like Sin City buy scanning your eyes left to right/left to right.
Once you see RBE, you can't deny it's not there or what it is.

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post #15 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

LCD often starts having issues after a few thousand hours, this is the result of the kind of panels they use. If you want a projector to last longer dlp is the way to go (though like anything it can also have issues, but it is less common). There is a reason most cinemas use dlp.

As for LCOS I cannot say as I don't have the knowledge to comment.
This may be true for organic panel LCD but I have not heard this to be an issue with modern inorganic LCD panels.

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post #16 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

That's because most people who see RBE doesn't know what it is when they see it.
It can easily be seen on a black and white movie like Sin City buy scanning your eyes left to right/left to right.
Once you see RBE, you can't deny it's not there or what it is.

I am not denying it is there and that some people see it. I am saying that I fell the number of people effected is greatly exaggerated, I have seen people on this forum claim they even see it with three chip dlp's which is amusing for obvious reasons.

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This may be true for organic panel LCD but I have not heard this to be an issue with modern inorganic LCD panels.

As I said i'm going from my experience and I even stated my experience may be a misnomer.
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post #17 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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This may be true for organic panel LCD but I have not heard this to be an issue with modern inorganic LCD panels.

I see way more complaints about failed polorizers then panels..
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post #18 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 03:40 PM
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I see way more complaints about failed polorizers then panels..
Replace polarizers with color wheel and it's the same argument. smile.gif

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post #19 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Replace polarizers with color wheel and it's the same argument. smile.gif

I've heard about many people having DLP projectors for many years without having issues with the color wheel. The same is rarely said about LCD panels or polarizers.
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post #20 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

I've heard about many people having DLP projectors for many years without having issues with the color wheel. The same is rarely said about LCD panels or polarizers.
Just search "dlp color wheel problems" or "dlp color wheel replacement"
YouTube also has a lot of How to replace DLP color wheel. People aren't replacing DLP color wheels for a hobby. smile.gif

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post #21 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Just search "dlp color wheel problems" or "dlp color wheel replacement"
YouTube also has a lot of How to replace DLP color wheel. People aren't replacing DLP color wheels for a hobby. smile.gif

All I know is I have personally owned a DLP for 5 years, and have read about people owning DLPs for much longer, without color wheel issues. If you own a LCD for several years you WILL have LCD panel or polarizer issues.
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post #22 of 87 Old 11-09-2013, 09:01 PM
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I've used a Mitsu HC5000 for over 6 years (on my second lamp) and it is working as good as day one.

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post #23 of 87 Old 11-10-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

All I know is I have personally owned a DLP for 5 years, and have read about people owning DLPs for much longer, without color wheel issues. If you own a LCD for several years you WILL have LCD panel or polarizer issues.
If you own a a DLP for several years, you will likely have a color wheel failure or timing issue with the color wheel that causes abnormal color projection.
DLP also is plagued with lens distortion issues where the outer portion of the picture is not in focus.
Let's also not forget the louder fan noise of a DLP projector required for the hotter lamp, which also consumes more power.
The black level/contrast is also subpar compared to an LCD/LCOS in the same price range.
Also, the lamp WILL fail. biggrin.gif

Btw, the theaters use 3 panel DLP, which has no high pitch/whining color wheel and is in a class of its own, not even comparable with single chip DLP.

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post #24 of 87 Old 11-10-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

If you own a a DLP for several years, you will likely have a color wheel failure or timing issue with the color wheel that causes abnormal color projection.
DLP also is plagued with lens distortion issues where the outer portion of the picture is not in focus.
Let's also not forget the louder fan noise of a DLP projector required for the hotter lamp, which also consumes more power.
The black level/contrast is also subpar compared to an LCD/LCOS in the same price range.
Also, the lamp WILL fail. biggrin.gif

Btw, the theaters use 3 panel DLP, which has no high pitch/whining color wheel and is in a class of its own, not even comparable with single chip DLP.

It's funny you try to make it sound like you know what you're talking about, yet everyone else's experience in this thread would contradict your claims.
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post #25 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

It's funny you try to make it sound like you know what you're talking about, yet everyone else's experience in this thread would contradict your claims.
You make it appear that DLP is the superior technology and has no drawbacks or serious issues.
Both technologies have their own set of issues so lets not try to provide information lacking objective evidence of your claims of polarizer issues are widespread and are indeed fact on modern LCD projectors.

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post #26 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

You make it appear that DLP is the superior technology and has no drawbacks or serious issues.
Both technologies have their own set of issues so lets not try to provide information lacking objective evidence of your claims of polarizer issues are widespread and are indeed fact on modern LCD projectors.

The adults here we're having a conversation about the LONGEVITY of DLP and LCD projectors, then you came in trolling about unrelated issues while failing to mention the shortcomings of LCD. You're trolling, we get it.
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post #27 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 10:04 AM
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Adult conversation? Do you mean DLP advocate and propaganda?
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

That's what worries me about LCD projectors.

I bought a DLP projector -> used it for several years, even putting several hundred extra hours on the lamp beyond when it recommend I should change it -> looked so good several years later with a used up lamp that someone bought it on the spot after watching it for 30 minutes.

I don't think that story could be said about non-DLP projectors....
Misinformation. eek.gif

It's when I see posts like yours providing subjective strawman information that I feel needs clarification.

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post #28 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post


It's when I see posts like yours providing subjective strawman information that I feel needs clarification.

See, I can cite sources, unlike you.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp_test.htm
Quote:
Results as reported by Texas Instruments

At the end of about 4700 hours of operation, TI summarized the results as follows:

1. Full On/Off, and ANSI contrast degraded over time on all five LCD units, but remained relatively constant on the two DLPs.
2. The optical degradation seen in the LCDs washed the picture out and raised the dark levels.

3. Color chromaticity remained stable on the DLPs, but significant changes were seen in the LCDs. There was a visible yellowing of the image on all the units, and some later developed a "blue blemish" as well.

4. The pattern of degradation was the same on all five LCD products tested. The degradation occurred first in the blue channel. TI's theory is that the organic compounds in the polarizer and LCD panel were breaking down under exposure to high frequency blue and UV light. Eventually there are signs of breakdown in the red and green channels as well.

5. The first of the LCD projectors to fail was judged by TI personnel to have reached an unacceptable condition in 1368 hours of operation. Subsequent failure of the other four units occurred at 2160, 2352, 3456, and 3456 hours.

How's that? Here is another:

http://www.projector-guide.com/projector-guide/projector-structure/lcd-disadvantages.html
Quote:
Limited lifetime of LCD panels appears to be one of the biggest disadvantages of LCD structure projectors. The colors tend to degrade and the screen tend to get yellow after intensive usage of LCD projector. Vendors do not publish the lifespan of LCD panels, but usually it takes 1-3 lamp replacements to notice picture quality reduction. Usually it is not worth replacing LCD panels as it would be too expensive, in most cases you could buy much better projector adding just 50% of LCD panel’s price.
Quote:
Dust blobs

Impurities in panels (dust blobs). Due to the construction of LCD projector dust can relatively easily and quickly settle on the panels. Optical path is usually not so well protected as in the DLP projectors. While dust on the red and blue LCD panels is not very visible, dust on green LCD panel can be a nightmare.To avoid this LCD projector needs constant maintenance. LCD structure projector should be cleaned every 300 hours of use.

Color decay

Yellow and green tint color decay in as little as 300 hours. Sadly we can confirm it from our experience while we are working mostly with education institutions. This issue makes presentations much less enjoyable.

Now please feel free to cite some credible sources that say LCDs outlast DLPs.
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post #29 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

You make it appear that DLP is the superior technology and has no drawbacks or serious issues.
Both technologies have their own set of issues so lets not try to provide information lacking objective evidence of your claims of polarizer issues are widespread and are indeed fact on modern LCD projectors.
tell me why did they stop making lcd and crt rear projection TVs long before they stopped making dlp rear projection TVs? its obvious there are a lot of biased claims going on here
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post #30 of 87 Old 11-11-2013, 11:01 AM
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I am using DLP projectors for 14+ years. Not a single failure.

The best: My old projector from 1999 lasted 10years (and was finally sold together with my house). It was technically outdated, but the picture looked as on day #1. I would like to see a LCD projector with this stability in PQ!
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