Do 9 out of 10 people really prefer LCD? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 56 Old 11-17-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I keep seeing this banner ad on websites with the incredible claim that (paraphrasing) "9 out of 10 people prefer LCD over other projector technologies".

Having had both an LCD and DLP, I find this claim beyond absurd, there's simply no comparison between the image of my LCD and DLP projectors I had, not only was the LCD's image much worst (especially the contrast ratio), but after about 2 years a permanent yellow stain was burnt into my LCD projector, while my DLP projector's image looks exactly the same after 7 years of daily use.

I have to admit I haven't seen any recent LCD, but I doubt either that the contrast ratio has improved over DLP or that the yellowing of the LCD panels after only 1-2 years no longer occurs. The yellowing issue alone is enough to make me avoid LCD as I tend to keep my projectors for as long as possible which is why I still use the same DLP after 7 years. I'd like to see what an LCD looks like after 7 years of daily use, but I doubt it would be enjoyable by how bad the yellow stain would get in that time.

Is that claim in the ad completely fabricated or was the poll done when only 1x DLP projectors existed? Even if they said 50% prefer LCD I'd be skeptical, but 9 out of 10 seems like a complete fabrication.

Thanks
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post #2 of 56 Old 11-17-2013, 11:52 AM
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Until someone goes to jail for a false claim most of the claims made by the marketing folks at any company are subjective. I agree with you ,,,,, the claim is absurd I believe that 12 out of 10 people prefer The LCD technology- :Bohanna biggrin.gif
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post #3 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 04:46 AM
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Since we are still on our first and only projector, Yamaha LPX-510, purchased November 2005, I can only comment on DLP's I've seen at HT stores.

So far our LCD Yamaha has the same picture as when we first purchased it. It has been set up in 6 houses in 2 states over the 8 years we've had it. The only issue we have had is new lamps at about every 2,800 hours; we are on lamp 4.

We have been to several HT stores over the years when we get the urge to upgrade. While there is a difference between LCD and DLP, we've not been able to perceive enough difference to justify the expense of an upgrade.

As to the claim of "9 out of 10 people prefer LCD over other projector technologies", it very well may be true pertaining to the group (if any) surveyed. But statistics can and are manipulated in many ways to achieve the desired outcome.

I think it's an idiotic claim to make and would cause me to be extremely leery of whatever they are pushing.

Jerry

ÂExperience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. Thomas Jefferson
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post #4 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 06:54 AM
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90% of all statistics are made up.
I guess it would depend on who you surveyed. If you were talking business/presentation PJs, that might be true. Since Epson sells more PJs than anybody else and all they sell are LCDs and probably 90% of conference rooms have an Epson in them…. Well.
If you were talking Home Theater/Cinema, it’s probably closer to 50/50.
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post #5 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 07:21 AM
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DLP makers could say the same statistic about themselves and use this video as proof.

http://youtu.be/sfGrWZwiRFU
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post #6 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

DLP makers could say the same statistic about themselves and use this video as proof.

http://youtu.be/sfGrWZwiRFU

Let your eyes decide. BTW notice the waves on the right projector . This is the trouble MANY people have with the DLP technology! Bohanna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2uVjxxwqWk
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post #7 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Let your eyes decide. BTW notice the waves on the right projector . This is the trouble MANY people have with the DLP technology! Bohanna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2uVjxxwqWk

Actually if you watch the video, there are waves on both sides. That's something a camcorder will pick up, but the eye would not. This video actually covers that issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAsDxWssddo
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post #8 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Actually if you watch the video, there are waves on both sides. That's something a camcorder will pick up, but the eye would not. This video actually covers that issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAsDxWssddo

Agreed but The eyes do pick it up and there is evidence of this ALL over the place. ALso there is a huge difference between a wave and Tsunami. Many people become sensitive to RBE over time.
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post #9 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 02:43 PM
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Well the vast majority of movie theaters are DLP now and I think they would use what people prefer most. Also I know I prefer DLP FWIW.
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post #10 of 56 Old 11-18-2013, 09:24 PM
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But movie theater DLP is 3-chip.
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post #11 of 56 Old 11-19-2013, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

But movie theater DLP is 3-chip.

When you are trying to push that much light out of a projector for a large size room The DLP's have the advantage of not having the Blue panel breakdown problem. A commercial three gun DLP is like the Diesel of DLP's . - Much more practical for Large venues but not the best quality image and a very poor rationalization. Bohanna
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post #12 of 56 Old 11-19-2013, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Let your eyes decide. BTW notice the waves on the right projector . This is the trouble MANY people have with the DLP technology! Bohanna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2uVjxxwqWk

There is no waves whatsoever on my DLP, I suspect those waves are due to the camera's framerate VS the projector's refresh rate, much like the old CRT TVs do when recorded on camera, you don't see that in "real life", it's added by the camera. I also suspect it must be a 1-3x projector for the camera to be adding that.

I'll try to record a video of mine right now and see... There isn't any waving whatsoever, but I have a 5x DLP and a 60 fps full HD camera.
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post #13 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

There is no waves whatsoever on my DLP, I suspect those waves are due to the camera's framerate VS the projector's refresh rate, much like the old CRT TVs do when recorded on camera, you don't see that in "real life", it's added by the camera. I also suspect it must be a 1-3x projector for the camera to be adding that.

I'll try to record a video of mine right now and see... There isn't any waving whatsoever, but I have a 5x DLP and a 60 fps full HD camera.

A - the waves are there no getting around it. side by side you can see the difference in the technology.
B- The issue that is one of the main concerns for people using DLP's is THEIR ability to see the Rainbows!! Just because YOU are not sensitive to them or can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist!!
C- Another issue is that many people who don't see the RBE still comment that DLP is harder on the eyes. Not a comment thats usually heard regarding LCD technology.
D- The three panel LCD technology is similar to the original three gun RGB projectors that have been around for years. MANY people prefer this type of an image since they believe its more film than video like.. - Bohanna
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post #14 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

A - the waves are there no getting around it. side by side you can see the difference in the technology.
B- The issue that is one of the main concerns for people using DLP's is THEIR ability to see the Rainbows!! Just because YOU are not sensitive to them or can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist!!
C- Another issue is that many people who don't see the RBE still comment that DLP is harder on the eyes. Not a comment thats usually heard regarding LCD technology.
D- The three panel LCD technology is similar to the original three gun RGB projectors that have been around for years. MANY people prefer this type of an image since they believe its more film than video like.. - Bohanna

A - the waves are a product of the camcorder
B - just because you are one of the minority that sees rainbows, doesn't mean others have to be. Just because you hear voices in your head doesn't mean I have to.
C - I've never heard anyone say DLP is hard on the eyes, in fact it's usually the opposite.
D - is that why most theaters use DLP?

- nickoakdl
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post #15 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

A - the waves are a product of the camcorder
B - just because you are one of the minority that sees rainbows, doesn't mean others have to be. Just because you hear voices in your head doesn't mean I have to.
C - I've never heard anyone say DLP is hard on the eyes, in fact it's usually the opposite.
D - is that why most theaters use DLP?

- nickoakdl

A- They are side by side and the camera shows the difference. NO getting around it ! You have a spinning disc that bounces light VRS a filtered light.
B- Minority or not THE FACT is people have been complaining and commenting about The RBE for years. They have also been talking about the screen door effect on LCD projectors. ALSO The voices in my head are VERY upset that you are talking about them!!! They are also upset that you are ignoring them,,,,,, AGAIN!!!!
C- Sorry dude but the RBE is just one of the hard on the eyes issues that people deal with with DLP tech.
D- MUCH easier to get high lumens out of a DLP than an LCD. The more light you pump though a Blue LCD screen the faster it fails! No Big secret there. Its also much cheaper to Field replace a colorwheel than it is to replace and align an LCD Panel.

Gotta go the voices are BACK!!!!!!!!--- Bohanna
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post #16 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 09:56 AM
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Ummm..... Having owned all 3 technologies I have to admit I (now) prefer LCD as well.

Reason being: I do see rainbows, and I also use my projector with a HTPC to surf the web, etc. The LCD just has the "pop" and greater sharpness, especially to the edges that the CRT could not do. For film, I preferred the CRT, yes.
If DLP didn't rainbow which kills my eyes, I'd prefer it instead for the even sharper image.

But for a daily driver, LCD has come a LOOONG way in image quality and contrast, especially in the last few years.

But statistics could also say that 9 out of 10 women prefer Bose wave radios..... because they are so nice and small. rolleyes.gif Never mind sound quality.

Welcome to the darkside.....
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post #17 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 11:03 AM
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I was a staunch LCD guy before, ( Sanyo Z3, Epson 1080, 6500UB and Mits HC6800) but I LOVE my Benq W1200 DLP pj. Yes, not the best blacks, but it has a super sharp, clean, smooth image. Have yet to see a rainbow with it - but almost every pro review commented on the almost complete lack of rainbows with this model so I took the chance. Was well worth it. Can't see me going back to LCD and dealing with the convergence thing - that always bugged me. Just my 2cents
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post #18 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

A - the waves are a product of the camcorder
B - just because you are one of the minority that sees rainbows, doesn't mean others have to be. Just because you hear voices in your head doesn't mean I have to.
C - I've never heard anyone say DLP is hard on the eyes, in fact it's usually the opposite.
D - is that why most theaters use DLP?

- nickoakdl

B - If you watch romantic drama or dialog driven drama, you may not notice RBE.
It's fast action scenes and panning when RBE is easily seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYBurcnYx2g

D - Theaters use 3 chip DLP, which has no color wheel.

2014
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post #19 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

B - If you watch romantic drama or dialog driven drama, you may not notice RBE.
It's fast action scenes and panning when RBE is easily seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYBurcnYx2g

D - Theaters use 3 chip DLP, which has no color wheel.
Once again, that's a product of the camcorder.

Are you saying I've never seen rbe because I only watch "Love Actually" on repeat?
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post #20 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 12:43 PM
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Captian Noah could sing a rainbow but be damned if I have ever seen a rain bow other than the ones in the sky! I have see double rainbows out my back window and once I even saw a Leprechaun with a pot of gold, but NEVER have I seen a RBE from any DLP display. In-fact no one I know personally has ever seen one.. only people here on AVS.. Next time I see the Leprechaun I will ask if he has seen one!

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post #21 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

B - If you watch romantic drama or dialog driven drama, you may not notice RBE.
It's fast action scenes and panning when RBE is easily seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYBurcnYx2g

D - Theaters use 3 chip DLP, which has no color wheel.

Theaters use BOTH !! BTW I haven't even mentioned the DLP chips that fry. I have had three of them replaced by Samsung in the past. I have seen MANY MoRe.

Here's a little about the field replaceable color wheels.
""A unique, user-changeable, twin-color-wheel system gives you the flexibility to tailor your presentations to maximize high-brightness images and achieve superior-color reproduction. Ideal for 24/7 operation, the Christie DHD800 includes a lamp-interval feature that enables you to select the usage times between the dual-lamps for balanced lamp life. Its sealed optical engine prevents dust and dirt from affecting the system, ensuring that image quality is maintained and maintenance costs are lower. ""

Sorry dude read em and weep! - Bohanna

http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/business/products/projectors/1-chip-dlp/pages/christie-dhd800.aspx
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post #22 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

A - the waves are there no getting around it. side by side you can see the difference in the technology.
B- The issue that is one of the main concerns for people using DLP's is THEIR ability to see the Rainbows!! Just because YOU are not sensitive to them or can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist!!
C- Another issue is that many people who don't see the RBE still comment that DLP is harder on the eyes. Not a comment thats usually heard regarding LCD technology.
D- The three panel LCD technology is similar to the original three gun RGB projectors that have been around for years. MANY people prefer this type of an image since they believe its more film than video like.. - Bohanna

A. As others ave mentioned the waves are added by the camera, it is not something you see in real life.
B. Rainbows are largely dependent on the color wheel speed, I do see them on friend's 2-3x projectors, but never on my 5x projector even on very fast scenes. The DLP rainbow demo video linked a few posts above was most definitely a 1 to 3 x color wheel, if mine looked anything near that bad I would have resold it in no time, that's absurd how the colors separate with such a slow color wheel and that's the reason I went with a 5x projector for my first DLP.
C. I don't find my DLP hard on the eyes whatsoever, in fact the poor contrast ratio of my previous LCD was hard on the eyes especially in dark scenes
D. Out of my previous LCD and current DLP projector, there's absolutely no doubt my DLP is WAY more film like, as 9 out of 10 in one of the videos above said in the LCD vs DLP comparison

Someone else mentioned convergence, that's another problem I forgot about with my LCD, all 3 colors where slightly out of alignment causing every pixel to have a "rainbow" of colors around it. With single chip DLP you're guaranteed 100% perfect convergence.
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post #23 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 02:05 PM
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I'd love to give an epson a shot, but the more I read the epson threads in hopes of convincing myself to by one, the more I don't want one. Even the pro epson users in those threads have to go through several units until they get an acceptable one, then several months later they have to send it in for one issue or another, only to go through shoddy refurbs until they get an acceptable one again. Thankfully epson's cs is good, but once that warranty is up you might as well start shopping for a new projector.
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post #24 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aab1 View Post

A. As others ave mentioned the waves are added by the camera, it is not something you see in real life.
B. Rainbows are largely dependent on the color wheel speed, I do see them on friend's 2-3x projectors, but never on my 5x projector even on very fast scenes. The DLP rainbow demo video linked a few posts above was most definitely a 1 to 3 x color wheel, if mine looked anything near that bad I would have resold it in no time, that's absurd how the colors separate with such a slow color wheel and that's the reason I went with a 5x projector for my first DLP.
C. I don't find my DLP hard on the eyes whatsoever, in fact the poor contrast ratio of my previous LCD was hard on the eyes especially in dark scenes
D. Out of my previous LCD and current DLP projector, there's absolutely no doubt my DLP is WAY more film like, as 9 out of 10 in one of the videos above said in the LCD vs DLP comparison

Someone else mentioned convergence, that's another problem I forgot about with my LCD, all 3 colors where slightly out of alignment causing every pixel to have a "rainbow" of colors around it. With single chip DLP you're guaranteed 100% perfect convergence.

A - There are TWO projectors side by side The camera is picking up waves and ripples on Both. The LCD looks like a beach on a calm day The DLP looks like the same beach in a storm. It AIN't Trick photography. MANY people see the difference when watching the image the two technologies produce.
B - and C - I know you want this to be all about you and your opinions but it is about the publics preference for LCD over DLP. Given the Choice of a DLP or the more expensive LCD projector I believe the public will choose the LCD. Now that they are making inorganic LCD panels that last MUCH longer I believe that this will increase the likely hood of people buying them. The fact is DLP are MUCH cheaper to make and LCD's are STILL around. The fact that people STILL buy the higher cost projectors should speak volumes for the difference. I prefer the softness of the old CRT projectors but they were a pain in the ass and were not that bright but he picture was great!
D - I guess that's why they make vanilla and Chocolate! - Bohanna
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post #25 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

I'd love to give an epson a shot, but the more I read the epson threads in hopes of convincing myself to by one, the more I don't want one. Even the pro epson users in those threads have to go through several units until they get an acceptable one, then several months later they have to send it in for one issue or another, only to go through shoddy refurbs until they get an acceptable one again. Thankfully epson's cs is good, but once that warranty is up you might as well start shopping for a new projector.

Good points!!- Bohanna
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post #26 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Theaters use BOTH !! BTW I haven't even mentioned the DLP chips that fry. I have had three of them replaced by Samsung in the past. I have seen MANY MoRe.

Here's a little about the field replaceable color wheels.
""A unique, user-changeable, twin-color-wheel system gives you the flexibility to tailor your presentations to maximize high-brightness images and achieve superior-color reproduction. Ideal for 24/7 operation, the Christie DHD800 includes a lamp-interval feature that enables you to select the usage times between the dual-lamps for balanced lamp life. Its sealed optical engine prevents dust and dirt from affecting the system, ensuring that image quality is maintained and maintenance costs are lower. ""

Sorry dude read em and weep! - Bohanna

http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/business/products/projectors/1-chip-dlp/pages/christie-dhd800.aspx
That's a 1080p projector, not 4K, which is what most if not all modern theaters use these days.

None of the modern theaters or Imax theaters I've been to in the last 5 years use single chip DLP projectors.
It's easy to tell when they are using 3 chip DLP just by going up to the screen before previews start and they are showing static images/quizs.
You can see convergence of the DLP panel alignment not being perfect.

2014
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post #27 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

I'd love to give an epson a shot, but the more I read the epson threads in hopes of convincing myself to by one, the more I don't want one. Even the pro epson users in those threads have to go through several units until they get an acceptable one, then several months later they have to send it in for one issue or another, only to go through shoddy refurbs until they get an acceptable one again. Thankfully epson's cs is good, but once that warranty is up you might as well start shopping for a new projector.
Are you saying DLP projectors have less issues and are perfect right out the box every time?

2014
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post #28 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
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Are you saying DLP projectors have less issues and are perfect right out the box every time?

Less issues, yep! That's exactly what I'm saying....GOOD JOB!

Look at threads revolving around DLPs over a year old and compare them to threads revolving around LCDs over a year old. The LCD threads get traffic from people complaining about issues they're having, much much more so then DLP threads.

And I know what your retort is gonna be: "But...but...RBE! Failed chips. Color wheels!"
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post #29 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

A - There are TWO projectors side by side The camera is picking up waves and ripples on Both. The LCD looks like a beach on a calm day The DLP looks like the same beach in a storm. It AIN't Trick photography. MANY people see the difference when watching the image the two technologies produce.
B - and C - I know you want this to be all about you and your opinions but it is about the publics preference for LCD over DLP. Given the Choice of a DLP or the more expensive LCD projector I believe the public will choose the LCD. Now that they are making inorganic LCD panels that last MUCH longer I believe that this will increase the likely hood of people buying them. The fact is DLP are MUCH cheaper to make and LCD's are STILL around. The fact that people STILL buy the higher cost projectors should speak volumes for the difference. I prefer the softness of the old CRT projectors but they were a pain in the ass and were not that bright but he picture was great!
D - I guess that's why they make vanilla and Chocolate! - Bohanna

What are the two projector models, what we seem to be seeing in terms of ripples is entirely dependent on the frame rate of the unit and the sync between the projector frame rate and the camera frame rate. Relaly you can't make any basis for discussion in this regard based on that video.

That video is useless though and means nothing, and I am a dlp fan. The RBE is something I fell few will see or notice but if you do single chip dlp's are probably not for you and lcd would as a result be better. I however cannot see the RBE at all and have tried many times to do so, so single chip dls are fine for myself.

I would say as a general rule: 3chip dlps > lcos which equals single chip dlp > LCD.
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post #30 of 56 Old 11-20-2013, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Less issues, yep! That's exactly what I'm saying....GOOD JOB!

Look at threads revolving around DLPs over a year old and compare them to threads revolving around LCDs over a year old. The LCD threads get traffic from people complaining about issues they're having, much much more so then DLP threads.

And I know what your retort is gonna be: "But...but...RBE! Failed chips. Color wheels!"
Sort of sad that you must praise your own reply. frown.gif
Personal opinion does not mean fact.
Back up your opinions with facts.

Shall I search for DLP stuck mirrors, color wheel failure, color wheel whine, focus uniformity issues on outter edges, loud fan & color uniformity issues for you.
I want to get a DLP but all those issues on top of RBE steers me away.

2014
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