Which projector would work out the best? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 11-28-2013, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I am trying to decide which projector would be best for me. I am planning on a 150 in screen in a room with very good light control. Also how much does contrast ratio really matter?

3D is not a necessity

1080 native is a necessity

This will be used for gaming and movie/tv viewing

If you have any other projectors that would work better feel free to toss it in the mix. I am somewhat new to this, so any information would be beneficial.

 

 

Mitsubishi HC7900DW Full HD Home Theater 3D Projector

This one has 3D so that is a plus but 3D is not a necessity for me. The contrast ratio is also much higher than the epson 8350 (or any of the others listed), but I am unsure of how much that matters. I think this one may be the best?

 

Acer H6510BD FHD

This one seems to be a good value.

 

InFocus - 1080p HD DLP Home Theater Projector

This one is cheapish& 3D.

 

Epson 2030

This one is 3D and cheaper than the 8350

 

Optoma HD25-LV

3D & cheaper than the 8350

 

Epson 8350

Why is this one substantially more expensive than the other ones? Am I missing something here?

 

BenQW1080ST

3D & Cheaper than the 8350

 

 

There are just so many projector options it is quite bewildering as to which may suit me best.

 

I know that nearly all of these are 3D, but that is not too important for me. It would probably go unused due to a lack of 3D movies and the glasses. I would like the most bang for my buck, so if i can get a comparable projector that does 3D as well and isn't too much more, why not?

If you have any better suggestions or additions to my list feel free to open my eyes to them.

Which one do you think is the best value and will serve my purposes?

I want a 150 in screen, 1080 native is a necessity, the light is very controlled. The walls are painted a light brown and the ceiling is white but there is little to no ambient light.

Please list them in the order you believe would be best.

Thank you guys so much for your help!

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post #2 of 27 Old 11-28-2013, 11:45 PM
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You mentioned gaming which also means looking at lag times. If you play faced paced actions games(FPS, etc..), lag can be a significant performance factor. Second your talking 150" with good light control. At that size, you'll still need at least 19fl+ to have a decent picture(under light controlled conditions). You don't mention what type of screen you'll be using. Depending of gain, the PJ's brightness can be more or less of a factor. The 8350 seems to be what you looked at as the "high end" of your budget range(~$1300). While it's less bright than the others, what you are likely to get from it versus a lower cost model is deeper black levels(which are a big plus for picture quality in a light controlled environment). Also, move expensive models tend to have better placement flexibility(more zoom range, lens shift) which might be a consideration.

Others have looked at similar models and comparisons. This thread should also help you out some: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488755/epson-8350-vs-the-newest-sub-1000-like-benq-w1070-acer-h6510-epson-2030-etc

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post #3 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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what is fl+?

Should i try to get a screen with more or less gain?

I'm still trying to determine a screen as well.

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post #4 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTShadow View Post

what is fl+?
Should i try to get a screen with more or less gain?
I'm still trying to determine a screen as well.

foot-Lamberts (fL).

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home_theater_projector_buyers_guide.htm?page=Brightness

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post #5 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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The calculator says I can get 15 FL (which is in the range the article determines as good) with a 150 in screen at 15 feet away. 

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post #6 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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That is with a 1.0 gain screen.

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post #7 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTShadow View Post

The calculator says I can get 15 FL (which is in the range the article determines as good) with a 150 in screen at 15 feet away. 

Which projector are using for your calculations?

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post #8 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been doing a bit of research and it seems that the Epson 8350 really isn't worth its $1300 price tag. All of the other projectors listed have 1080 and are substantially cheaper. 

How does the Acer H6510BD stack up to the rest?

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post #9 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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the epson 8350

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post #10 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The Optoma HD131Xe also looks to be a good deal. 

is there any particular reason as to why the Optoma HD25-LV is $300 more?

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post #11 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 08:23 AM
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The HD25-LV uses a different lamp altogether and is extremely brighter than the HD131Xe or HD25e...

The HD25-LV is not suitable for a dark room, it's more designed for a living room where ambient light can't be tamed too well.

HD25-LV provides 3200 lumens of light output, supposedly, where as the HD131Xe provides 2500 lumens of light output, supposedly.

However, Projector Central measured the HD25e (which is essentially the HD131Xe) at around 1185 lumens in it's bright mode (not sure of the screen size they used to take the measurement) and the HD25-LV at 2420 of lumens on it's bright mode.

So, yeah, HD25-LV is more than twice as bright.

Since your room is light controlled, I'd go with the HD131Xe.

Link to Projector Central review of HD25-LV: http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd25-lv_home_theater_projector_review.htm

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #12 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, i see how the HD131Xe would the best option out of those optoma ones. How is it compared to the BenQw1070, Epson 2030, Acer H6510BD?

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post #13 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTShadow View Post

the epson 8350

The Projector Central calculator shows the Epson 8350 yielding 9 fL for a 150" screen. A screen that large requires a light cannon which the 8350 isn't.

None of the projectors you mention are suitable for a screen that large. Will you see an image? Yes. Will it be acceptable? No.

And if you're thinking 3D - fuggedaboutit.

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post #14 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

None of the projectors you mention are suitable for a screen that large. Will you see an image? Yes. Will it be acceptable? No.

And if you're thinking 3D - fuggedaboutit.

The HD131Xe, according to the calculator, will put out between 15-19fL for a 150" screen depending on the throw range.

Since he's got a good light controlled room, that should be OK.

Actually, though, with an image that big MAYBE YOU DO want to go with the HD25-LV. If it's too bright, you could always throw it on "Eco" mode. Projector Central says 19-24fL for the HD25-LV @ 150".

(Those fL numbers were taken using the Video/Games setting on that calculator with a 1.0 gain screen. Numbers could change depending on projector mode and screen gain.)

But yeah, I'd go with the HD25-LV to be safe with that screen size.

Cheers

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #15 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll look into the HD25-LV then. 

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post #16 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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How many Fl's would be considered acceptable? The calculator says a BenQ 1070 would give out 15FL with a 150 in screen...

How many Fl's are required for good picture quality?

3D?

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post #17 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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If I were to get the epson 5030UB would i be able to get a 150 inch screen that's bright enough to give a great image for 2D and 3D alike?

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post #18 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTShadow View Post

If I were to get the epson 5030UB would i be able to get a 150 inch screen that's bright enough to give a great image for 2D and 3D alike?

At that size you would probably be ok for 2D, but not for 3D. Many people who go that large get a Da-lite High Power screen.

Something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DA-LITE-MODEL-C-PROJECTION-SCREEN-78x139-159-DIAG-HIGH-POWER-2-4-GAIN-79047-/360460437798?pt=US_Projection_Screens_Material&hash=item53ed1dc926#ht_4837wt_896

But then that adds another variable to the equation because in order to benefit from the gain you would need the projector to be as close to eye level as possible (either a ceiling mount with a drop extension or on a table). That would also likely make the Optomas unsuitable due to their lack of lens shift and offset.
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post #19 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 04:25 PM
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For 3D+Gaming, I'd recommend the LV. I currently use one on a 135" screen with poor light control and it works great for me. At 150", it would be a bit to dim in Eco mode for my situation, but under light control would give an excellent picture. Lag wise it's better or equal than any of the other options listed. Target has the HD131Xe on sale and a good return policy(If you want to try it out on a test run). Higher gain = brighter picture where the screen is concerned. However, the trade off is usually a narrower viewing cone. That means brightness falls off quicker at the edges. My screen is a 135" Elite Screens CineWhite w/Sable Fixed Frame(~$400). The biggest downside to the Optoma models is the recent ones(the LV included) have some minor focus uniformity issues, but Optoma is RMAing those and when users get their PJ back focus is uniform. Some don't even notice the issue. For the extra $300 on the LV, your paying for brightness. It's almost always better to have too much brightness than too little. With eco mode, your brightness will drop some and the PJ will be quieter. I'll be posting some pics of my completed set-up soon and a 3D RF calibration guide(for the BitCauldron based glasses).

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post #20 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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how many FL's are required for 2D and 3D viewing?

I would be able to calculate distance and appropriate screen gain then.

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post #21 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:18 PM
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The "required fl" is actually personal preference, but if you you go by the industry standards. For a dark room,the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) is 16fl(+ or - 4fl). For 2D in a dark room, with darkened walls, this is the movie industry standard. For 3D, you lose a little over half of your brightness and so the fl needs to be measured through the glasses.

The standard: You want 16fl calibrated for a dark room for 2D and 16fl calibrated through the glasses in 3D for an equivalent 3D picture(21fl is the IMAX standard and the upper end of "bright" for a 2D picture and below 14fl is not recommended for most viewers).

At 150" and a 1.0 gain, your looking at 19fl-24fl, based on your throw distance. In ECO mode, you looking ~12.3fl-16fl(Eco loses ~1/3 of the brightness). If you go with the shortest throw possible, you'll be fine in 2D in ECO mode(16fl). However, in 3D, you'll likely want to switch to Normal mode and even then will likely be a touch on the dim side @ 12fl(your brightness drops in half at a minimum in 3D). Personally, at 150" I'd go with a gain slightly over 1.0(1.1 to 1.3) to give 3D that extra "pop" and for 2D you'll be closer to the IMAX standard of 21fl and have more room for correct color calibration.

Conclusion: Long story short, at 150" your likely to need every bit of brightness the HD25-LV puts out in 3D mode and can use Eco for 2D for brightness switching(and likely want to bump your brightness a bit with a 1.1-1.3 gain screen). I'd also recommend darkening the ceiling if possible.


Personal note: In a darkened living room(black out curtains at night without any light on) with white walls and ceiling on a 135"+1.1 gain(AKA Elite Screens CineWhite)+14' 10" throw, I find the 3D is very watchable in normal mode and 2D is also very watchable in eco mode(predicted 32fl in 2D normal). However, due to light control issues during the day, I plan to switch screen material to an HC grey material with at least the same gain as my current and likely a bit higher(looking at options there).

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post #22 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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what projector are you using here? NVM

Would the 5030UB be a good pick here for 2D?

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post #23 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
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what projector are you using here? NVM

Would the 5030UB be a good pick here for 2D?


The 5030UB would be good choice at 150" for 2D in a fully light controlled room(max 19fl at 150" at 1.0 gain). 3D will be dim and you'll definitely need to run it in normal mode for even 2D. For your planned screen size, I wouldn't recommend it.

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post #24 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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What would be a good projector for 150? Do you think it would be wise to downsize the screen?

The screen will probably be 1.1 gain now. Also i thought the 5030UB was made for a great large viewing experience. Is there a reason why it wouldn't be the best option for 150?

On the epson website it says it can project up to a 300 inch screen.

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post #25 of 27 Old 11-29-2013, 10:52 PM
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Q:What would be a good projector for 150?
A:That depends on both budget and the room itself(light control and throw distance).

Q:Do you think it would be wise to downsize the screen?
A:That depends on the seating distance from the screen.

Q:The screen will probably be 1.1 gain now. Also i thought the 5030UB was made for a great large viewing experience. Is there a reason why it wouldn't be the best option for 150? On the Epson website it says it can project up to a 300 inch screen.
A:Epson doesn't make projectors for "a great large viewing experience" given the are not relatively bright compared to other brands. Up to 300" is largely a gimmick. Almost any PJ, except high lumen professional models, won't due 300" with any level of usable brightness without a very high gain screen. 300" is likely the largest size that it can still focus at and unless going with something like a 2.5+ gain screen which will introduce hot spotting. Then just about no HT projector(under $3000 and possibly none) will do that.

Ex: Even the Optoma HD25-LV which is rated at 3200 lumen(and ~33% brighter the the 5030UB) would need 2.7 gain at a minimum at 300"(The 5030UB would need 3.5 gain for a decent 300" picture). Remember gain increases brightness at the cost of viewing angle. It also introduces possible artifacts in the picture quality(sparkles, hot spotting).

At 150" using the 5030UB, you'll need at least 1.3 gain if you want to use ECO mode to extend bulb life or want a quality 3D picture. 1.1 with the UB and your good for 2D in normal mode and may find ECO acceptable for 2D, but overall 3D will suffer some and be unusable in ECO mode.

The Epson WILL blow away lower end models for contrast ratio(especially black levels) which is a good thing since you have light control, but that will be largely negated if you leave the walls the light color they are(due to light reflected back at the screen).

It all comes down to screen, budget, and throw distance(I don't think you've mentioned the room size yet or seating distance) as to whether the expense of getting the 5030UB will provide any benefit vs the Optoma HD25-LV for your situation. One is higher quality(the UB), the other is a mid-quality budget light cannon(the LV). The difference is dedicated HT vs Living Room and your set-up is somewhere in between.

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post #26 of 27 Old 11-30-2013, 03:43 AM - Thread Starter
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The throw distance can be anywhere up to 20 feet. I haven't really figured out the seating as of yet. 

Right now I am leaning towards a 135 inch screen now as well.

 

I think I may also go with a 1.8 gain screen as I can get it for the same price as a 1.1. If I had a 135 inch screen, that would leave a little more than 2ft 9in on either side of the screen so there wouldn't be much of an angle to view the screen from. If I had a 150 inch screen there would be little less than 2 feet 4in on either side. Either way there wouldn't bemuch of an angle to view the screen at so having a screen with some gain shouldn't be a problem. 

So here are my questions.

Is there a downside to getting a 1.8 gain screen over a 1.1? I know it would cut down on the viewing angle, but as I said before, there isn't much of an angle to begin with.

 

If I have a 150 inch screen, what would be my best bet for a projector? (let's keep it under 3k)

 

If I shifted down to 135 inches, what then would be my best bet? (also preferably under 3k) (if the price gets into the +1.6k range could you also provide a budget one below 1.6k)

 

I'm thinking that the mitsubishi HC7900DW at 135inches with a 1.8 gain may be a good option? It could also work at 150. (I'm inclined to this one at the moment)

If I end up getting the HD25-LV I will leave off the 1.8 screen as it will be way too bright.

The epson 5030UB would also work with a 1.8 gain screen at 135 inches and at 150 inches.

Thanks, you are being extremely helpful! (3D isn't a priority or a necessity)

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post #27 of 27 Old 11-30-2013, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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After much deliberation, I think I will get the HD25e with a 150in 1.8 gain screen.

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