InFocus X10 vs Epson 1080ub - my upsetting results. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 11-30-2013, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I have owned a refurbished InFocus X10 I bought off eBay for $400 shipped for 10 months now. I have put 2000 hours on it and it has gone from an apartment living room to a dedicated cave in a house.

I always knew that its supposed weakness was black level - being that it has a DarkChip1 and its more expensive siblings have a DarkChip3. The colors are always perfect, however, with very little fiddling required. It is also extremely sharp thanks to its huge glass lens.

Based on reviews and testimonials, I assumed the Epson 1080ub would blow it out of the water on black levels - and I thought the colors would be worse, but easily fixable in the end. From screenshots on review sites, I also thought sharpness wouldn't be any different.

To my disappointment, attaining a 1080ub just recently to try and upgrade was a complete waste of time.

The colors weren't just a little different, they were atrocious compared to the InFocus. Everybody had different recommended settings because every one is different, and no settings made it look natural. It was dim, very dim, compared to the InFocus in Theater modes - and getting acceptable lumens out of it made the black levels no darker than the InFocus. The contrast ratio spec'd of 50,000:1 (vs 7,500:1 tops for InFocus) is complete bullsh--. The native contrast of 4,000:1 is much more realistic. It never once looked like it had more pop or inkier blacks unless it was dimmed down to CRT projector levels, or was crushing blacks and killing shadow details.

Not to mention on a solid color, there was a red hue present across the top half of the screen, and it got worse in the right corner. It also had dust blobs, and wasn't even close to the same sharpness.






How did this projector get such rave reviews? It "turned the world upside down" as far as black levels go on a projector of its cost, but the similarly aged, cheaper InFocus was merely "entry level" black levels that would disappoint anyone looking for inky blacks. I expect no replies since these projectors are both 5 years old, but the difference was unbelievable for all the reviews I read.

BTW here is a picture of the InFocus at home.

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post #2 of 11 Old 11-30-2013, 09:33 AM
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How many hours were on the epson?
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post #3 of 11 Old 11-30-2013, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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1100. I know it will be dimmer than new, but the InFocus has over 2000 hours on it, with 4000 total on the unit itself.

I am now trying to sell the Epson for $500 to get rid of it (paid $750 sadly).
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post #4 of 11 Old 11-30-2013, 02:24 PM
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Hello ,this maybe a crazy thought--- are you sure it is the 1080UB and not the Home Cinema 1080? They have very different contrast ratios. I have the UB and in my opinion it throws a fantastic picture with great blacks.
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post #5 of 11 Old 11-30-2013, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I checked the model number on it - and it is the TW2000 according to the sticker, which aligns with the 1080ub as a US model number.

Epson Super White or "Normal" HDMI range did give impressive blacks - but crushed them as well. To attain shadow detail and enough lumens to display a convincingly bright white left it with no discernible difference in black level. I shined the same image from both projectors on the screen overlaying them, and switching between the two, and I saw no real difference. I did, however, see a huge difference in color accuracy and sharpness.
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post #6 of 11 Old 11-30-2013, 10:34 PM
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By any chance do you use a matte white screen in a room with light colored walls or ceiling? I had an x10 until a month ago, and blacks are certainly not a strong suit... Even so, without a bat cave, you'd be hard pressed to see a significant difference between it and higher contrast PJs except in very dark scenes. If you like the DLP look and aren't averse to used, why not step up the DLP food chain?

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #7 of 11 Old 11-30-2013, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

By any chance do you use a matte white screen in a room with light colored walls or ceiling? I had an x10 until a month ago, and blacks are certainly not a strong suit... Even so, without a bat cave, you'd be hard pressed to see a significant difference between it and higher contrast PJs except in very dark scenes. If you like the DLP look and aren't averse to used, why not step up the DLP food chain?

The X10 and the 1080ub when tested both were in a cave. Black velvet-ish curtains 12 feet out from the screen, flat black ceiling, dark grey rug. Sound proofing all over rear walls, and more curtains. The screen wall is also all black fleece.

I used to own a Mitsubishi HC1500 DLP (2500:1 contrast IIRC) and between it and the X10 is an obvious difference and it has been 5 years gap to compare.

The 50,000:1 numbers and those like them are rated on dynamic iris numbers, I always knew that, but I thought regardless of that it will still have deeper blacks.

It seems without it the native 4000:1 number is more accurate, and thus, no better than the X10.

Maybe it is in the settings, but I tried many things, none were better overall.
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post #8 of 11 Old 12-01-2013, 06:20 AM
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1. Why are you trsting ancient projectors?

2. I guess every reviewer out there is blind?


It shouldn't be hard to setup you 1080ub to destroy an old dlp in black levels. You are doing it wrong. Also you say it's bad in color accuracy, what calibration gear were you using specifically to attain such results?
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post #9 of 11 Old 12-01-2013, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

1. Why are you trsting ancient projectors?

2. I guess every reviewer out there is blind?


It shouldn't be hard to setup you 1080ub to destroy an old dlp in black levels. You are doing it wrong. Also you say it's bad in color accuracy, what calibration gear were you using specifically to attain such results?

Well back in the day, 2006-7, I had a budget dedicated room. I sold it when I moved out, and then 6-7 years later (now) I bought a cheap XGA on a whim and immediately got the X10 to upgrade.

I assumed the 1080ub would be another step in the right direction, ancient or not.

(The 1080ub is 6 months older than the X10, I found out)

I wouldn't say every reviewer is blind but maybe you can't be the same kind of objective all the time, it seems. I used no calibration equipment of any kind, however, as I've never needed it with the X10. I tried out reviewers and forum members different settings, none impressed.
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post #10 of 11 Old 12-01-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMCreider View Post

Well back in the day, 2006-7, I had a budget dedicated room. I sold it when I moved out, and then 6-7 years later (now) I bought a cheap XGA on a whim and immediately got the X10 to upgrade.

I assumed the 1080ub would be another step in the right direction, ancient or not.

(The 1080ub is 6 months older than the X10, I found out)

I wouldn't say every reviewer is blind but maybe you can't be the same kind of objective all the time, it seems. I used no calibration equipment of any kind, however, as I've never needed it with the X10. I tried out reviewers and forum members different settings, none impressed.

You cannot say the colors are inaccurate when you cannot measure them. It's an illogical statement. Your infocus colors could be completely off and the epson correct, you can't tell unless you measure them.


You say the epson has 1100 hours on it, is that on the bulb or is that on the unit? Sounds like one of your polarizers is going out, which doesn't sound like an 1100 hour projector, and its probably not helping the contrast out one bit.

Also keep in mind, this is with the dynamic iris, you have to let the iris work or you will not be impressed. Your speakers are also reflecting light right back on your screen, need to move those.
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post #11 of 11 Old 12-01-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

You cannot say the colors are inaccurate when you cannot measure them. It's an illogical statement. Your infocus colors could be completely off and the epson correct, you can't tell unless you measure them.


You say the epson has 1100 hours on it, is that on the bulb or is that on the unit? Sounds like one of your polarizers is going out, which doesn't sound like an 1100 hour projector, and its probably not helping the contrast out one bit.

Also keep in mind, this is with the dynamic iris, you have to let the iris work or you will not be impressed. Your speakers are also reflecting light right back on your screen, need to move those.

The colors are always lauded in reviews when it comes to InFocus, and that rings true. Flesh tones are perfect, that is the easiest way to tell. On the Epson, they have a green / yellow tint.

That is 1100 hours on the bulb and unit. I know the Dynamic Iris helps, and dark scenes do look a little better as far as black levels, but overall contrast isn't anything special.

edit: and I doubt my speakers are going to reflect so much they wash out any difference between the two.
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