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post #1 of 13 Old 12-03-2013, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been having issues with various lcd flat panel tvs that I have tried out, in particular this images suffer from light bleed and flashing due to the fact they are all have edge back lighting. Anyway I got to thinking about a projector, something I have never had and know very little about. My concerns are (1) How does it stack up against a flat panel lcd and (2) how much ambient light can be tolerated. I do not have a dedicated HT room so this has to be in our living room. We rarely watch tv during the day except for some football on Sunday and we do have blinds but they still let in some light. I posted a pic of the room the sensor in the phone picks up a little more light than what is actually present. I would also appreciate any advice about what projector to purchase. I would likely ceiling mount and the throw can be anywhere from 7' to 16'. My screen size cannot exceed 40"x72" and still fit the space. Thanks for any advice[IMG


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post #2 of 13 Old 12-03-2013, 11:37 AM
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I just recently ditched a 60" LCD for a 92" Projector setup...

I'll tell you, a projector, at least to my wife and I, is an experience on a whole different level than a flat panel. It's just a much more immersive experience, plus it's much easier on the eyes (PJ isn't as harsh on the eyes as LCD... even though you can turn an LCD backlight down, I still find the projector is more comfortable to watch). In other words, it's much better... Ambient light does become a problem which depends on three factors, really:

1) The lumen output of the projector. (Not just white lumens, but color lumens too.)
2) The amount of ambient lighting in the room.
3) The screen material you're projecting on.

We currently have an Optoma HD131Xe (claims 2500 lumens, but I don't believe this at all) with blinds to the left and overhead lighting to the right. Our screen is a 92" cheap Amazon Silver Ticket 16:9 1.1 gain screen...

Overall, performance is O.K. in ambient lighting. There's definitely a bit of washout present and shadow detail takes a severe hit with ambient lighting. (Bright movies and TV shows are fine any time...) However, we are planning to combat this by either purchasing a high gain and reflective screen OR we're going to build our own screen.

I've been speaking to MississippiMan from these forums about putting together a screen made out of Sintra and Black Velvet Trim, plus painting it with Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 paint. Supposedly this can be done for under $300 and will be quite the ambient light kick ass machine.

Definitely going to let people know how it is once we've got a new screen in place...

Looking at your screen size space, looks like you could only fit a 82" screen at the max. You may have to build your own screen because I don't know many screen manufacturers who produce screens smaller than 84".

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #3 of 13 Old 12-03-2013, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. The actual size of the area above the fireplace is 98"x43" but I think to maintain a 16:9 aspect ratio the max screen size is 43"x76.5", assuming I did the calculation correctly. I have no problem diy, in fact l like it. I especially like to save $$. Like I mentioned the sensor in the camera picks up more light than is actually present, but it is by no means a totally dark room during the day. Fortunately, we watch mostly movies at night with all of the lights off which is the reason I could see issues with the black levels and the light bleed from the lcd sets that I tried. The tv I am using now is my 3 year old 55" plasma and except for the size it is great. I got used to the 70". If anyone else has suggestions or comments please offer them. I don't want to do this if it doesn't make sense, I wish the space was larger but it is what it is.
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post #4 of 13 Old 12-03-2013, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorta thinking out loud here but I suppose I could extend the size of the screen area by using a retractable one that extended out beyond the fireplace mantle. We were kind of wondering how a permanent screen would look anyway. Thoughts?
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post #5 of 13 Old 12-04-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I know from personal experience it is a pain to answer a bunch of newbie questions but I figure it is all in the interest of helping each other so here goes. I am down to wondering if a projector is going to work given my environment.

1. I have some ambient light but most viewing is done at night with the lights off.

2. I watch mostly movies, BD, Netflix, and occasionally football on sunday.

3. I am not a gamer.

4. 3D would be nice, I had it before and while the content is limited it is kind of fun on occasion.

5. The screen can either be above the fireplace mantle where the total area is 93"x43" but believe to use that space I am limited to a fixed screen size of 43x76.5 in order maintain a 16:9 aspect ratio or I could purchase a drop down screen that could be mounted to clear the mantle in which case size is flexible.

6. The projector can be ceiling mounted anywhere up to 16' away (ceiling is 8'2") or it can be mounted on the back wall which is 15' away if I use a drop down screen or 16' if I use a fixed screen. I have a wall that is closer but the projector would not be centered.

I am hoping to get some suggestions on how to set this up assuming it is even practical. If it is what projector and screen would be good? The pics show the view from where we sit and the back wall.

If a projector is mounted to the ceiling can the picture start at the point where the wall and ceiling meet or does there need to be a space? Thank You!


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post #6 of 13 Old 12-04-2013, 12:45 PM
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I think, given your situation and the fact that only a smallish screen can fit above the fireplace, I'd get a drop down screen. Maybe one of those electrical tensioned joints...

A projector should work fine in that environment, but you will need space between the screen and the projector, even if you're using a ceiling mount.

Depending on the projector you get, the size of the screen it can output at a given distance changes. You can use the Projector Calculator at projectorcentral.com to do calculations.

I don't know how much you're willing to spend on your projector, though, as well as your screen. If you have a set budget, I might be able to give you some suggestions. Also would need to know how much space (in inches) are between the viewing area and where the actual screen would be.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #7 of 13 Old 12-04-2013, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Soda, thanks for the response. I have options for a ceiling mount from zero to 16'. I agree with the drop down screen, I just need to get some input on what works best, unfortunately there are not stores in my town so I need to purchase online. With a drop down screen my viewing distance is about 144". I am open and looking for suggestions on the screen size, given the viewing distance and the flexibility of the placement of the projector but I have electrical at 6 feet and the back wall at 16 feet. I really don't have a budget but since this is so new to me and not knowing if I will like it would like to keep it under $2500. Thanks again for helping me.
John
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post #8 of 13 Old 12-04-2013, 05:39 PM
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So, from what I'm reading:

1: You've got a little bit of ambient light at times and you'll probably want to view in the day occasionally.
2: Your viewing distance from eyes to screen will be about 144" (12').

For a viewing distance of 144" (12'), I'd recommend a 106 or 110" screen (at the minimum) based on the viewing distance calculator @ http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html That's the minimum screen size to achieve a THX viewing angle. You could go bigger, of course, but then going too big could make your wife mad or maybe tire your neck out from looking back and forth too much while watching TV or movies.

The electrical being 6 feet away from the screen isn't so bad of an issue, but I would recommend mounting the projector just above or a little behind the viewing seats so the projector is not in your vision. You could either run the electrical from 6 feet or the back wall to the projector. (Could use wall channel on the ceiling to make it cleaner looking, if running from 6 feet... but I'd just run it from the back wall to the projector. Since I'm assuming the projector will be above the seating area, 12' from the screen, and the back wall is 15' from that, it's only a 3' plus some change cord run.)

I guess, you'd want to get an electric tensioned projection screen, as well... Whether you get it in white or grey is up to you. White is better all-around, but grey usually has higher contrast and works a little bit better if you're going to have ambient light in often. If not so often, go with white, as it's a more uniform picture... you can use the projector's "Bright" mode to compensate when you're watching in the day with the blinds open.

If you got an Elite Screen CineTension 106" grey screen (TE106HC2 on Amazon), it'd run about $1.1k where as the white (TC106HW2) runs about $860.

You'd want a tensioned screen so that the screen comes out perfectly flat, without wrinkles, and doesn't sway in the wind due to air conditioning or anything else.

Being your budget is $2500 and, JUST ASSUMING, you get a grey screen, that'd leave you with $1400 for a projector. (Not including the price of your ceiling mount...)

People say DLP gives the best "film like" picture, but also better for motion and what not as well. Problem with DLP, when not using 3-chip DLP which is tens of thousands of dollars, is that some people can be sensitive to the "rainbow effect"... where you can see the color separation the color wheel does on the picture... if you're not susceptible to it, I'd go ahead and nab an Optoma HD131Xe projector. It costs around $750 and gives a decent enough picture. The throw is perfect for 106" at 12' (144").

If you don't MIND, though, I'd REALLY go for an Optoma HD25-LV. It's $1079.99 and has twice the light output of the HD131Xe... (Not that the HD131Xe is dim at all, but more lumens is always better, especially when you're dealing with ambient light, and you can tone it down using the "Eco" mode on the projector if necessary.)

If you're susceptible to the "rainbow" effect, then I'd advise a 3LCD projector. Models you should consider would be an Epson PowerLite 3020 ($1499) or an Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 ($1269.99)

3LCD can still put out an amazing picture and, actually, contrast of 3LCD projectors has now exceeded DLP as has the color accuracy. Only problem with 3LCD is probably motion. It's not as clear as DLP but still very acceptable. If you've ever used an LCD TV and turned off that "Soap Opera Effect", that's how your image would look on an 3LCD... 'cept probably much better contrast and color. There ARE 3LCD projectors that feature the "Soap Opera Effect" (Frame Interpolation), but they generally cost quite a bit more money.

The prices I'm getting are from Amazon, you may find better deals elsewhere... but all of these projectors will comfortably throw up a 106" from 12' (or even closer or farther) and they're all 3D EXCLUDING the 8350... The 8350 is the only one that cannot do 3D.

Finally, you'd have to find a mount that looks good for you for the projector... There's a ton online and I think it's mostly up to aesthetics...

I suppose that's it as far as my suggestion on things.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #9 of 13 Old 12-04-2013, 09:53 PM
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Looking at your space, I would not recommend a projector. I would get the 8500 series Samsung plasma. It has a great image, can be bright, and is about the best option out there right now.

You can't use a motorized screen unless you plan to NOT use the fireplace as the heat from a fire will quickly destroy your screen. I wouldn't install that ever if you run your fireplace at all.

The ambient light is significant. People talk about how much they love their setups, but you have a lot of ambient light on screen and your complaining about things which are complete BS in relation to your LCD panels. How in the world are you going to feel about non-existent black levels?

No, your room is not appropriate, your indication of quality adds to that, and with the plasma option available, it's what I would recommend you to go with over anything else.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
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post #10 of 13 Old 12-05-2013, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Looking at your space, I would not recommend a projector. I would get the 8500 series Samsung plasma. It has a great image, can be bright, and is about the best option out there right now.

You can't use a motorized screen unless you plan to NOT use the fireplace as the heat from a fire will quickly destroy your screen. I wouldn't install that ever if you run your fireplace at all.

The ambient light is significant. People talk about how much they love their setups, but you have a lot of ambient light on screen and your complaining about things which are complete BS in relation to your LCD panels. How in the world are you going to feel about non-existent black levels?

No, your room is not appropriate, your indication of quality adds to that, and with the plasma option available, it's what I would recommend you to go with over anything else.
Since he has ambient light and what appears to be a window, the reflections from a plasma screen could be distracting unless it's a matted plasma screen.
Also keep in mind that plasma TV's still use a more power once you hit +50" and need good ventilation.

2014
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post #11 of 13 Old 12-05-2013, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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AV,
You may be right but I should at least clarify a couple of things. The fireplace is never used, I live in SW Florida and even in the winter months it is not practical most of the time. The ambient light is perhaps less of an issue than it appears because I rarely watch tv during the day. Also the camera picked up quite a bit more light than actually exists but it is certainly a negative for a projection tv. The other thing is that I could do is put in better window treatments, something we were planning to do anyway. I currently have a Samsung plasma and while it is a great tv but I probably would not get another one. It gives off a lot of heat and some manufacturers have indicated that are no longer going to make them. I may just wait until early next year and pick up one of the recently announced Visio lcd tvs that are going to have full array led back lighting. My other thought is to pick up a projector from someone with an easy return policy maybe AMZ and give it a try. I could set it up in a temporary mode and check out the picture rather than mount it. I could do the same with a cheap fixed screen. If the picture looks acceptable it can only get better.

Soda,
Thanks for spending the time on a very detailed comment.
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post #12 of 13 Old 12-05-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post

Soda,
Thanks for spending the time on a very detailed comment.
No problem, I say go ahead and give it a try. Amazon is really good with returns!

At the very worst, you may have a couple of holes to patch up, with some spackle and touch-up paint, in the wall or ceiling if you decide to take everything down.

I think the ambient light you have in your room can be defeated, but it's really not a big deal since A) You don't watch TV much during the day and B) The TV you do watch is usually regular TV or sports games or what not and not DARK MOVIES. You can easily save the dark movies for night time and be good to go.

I have overhead lights and a window in my watching area and I'm fine with it completely.

http://www.vengefulsoda.com/pj2.jpg <-- my set up.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #13 of 13 Old 12-05-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I think I am going to give it a try. Now I need to concentrate on a projector. My best location is 16' feet from the screen and mounted from the ceiling, which would put it behind me. I would really like to put in on the wall but that is 22' away and I assume the further away the more loss of light and other issues. Is that a fair assumption? I have another option but that is a wall mount location but it is 35+ degrees off center of the screen. I know there are units that have lens shift to compensate for that but I don't know much about it and I expect it adds to the cost. I also want 3D. Sodaboy gave me a few choices does anyone have any comments on them? Considering the price of screens I want to keep the price in the $1500 or less range, if possible. DLP may be better than 3LCD if only because there appears to be concerns over the life the lcd panels. Other than that I am open to suggestions. Oh, I want to purchase from Amazon and they don't sell the Epson 3020 directly from what I saw.
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