Whites too bright after Disney WOW calibration - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 12-08-2013, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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This is my first projector and could use a little help. I have Mitsubishi 7900 projector and elite maxwhite screen. I used the Disney WOW calibration disk to calibrate contrast and brightness. When done the picture looks great except when a bright scene comes on or one with lots of white. It pretty much burns your eyes. The only setting that makes a huge difference on the brightness is when I back the contrast down from say 20 to 5 but then the calibration is not valid anymore and then the less bright images don't pop as much.
I was wondering if this is an interaction with the cheaper elite screen or if something is maybe not happy on the projector.

Any help would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 27 Old 12-08-2013, 10:56 PM
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Instead of adjusting the contrast from 20 to 5, why don't you try one of the 14 numbers inbetween those and see if you can find a happy medium.
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post #3 of 27 Old 12-09-2013, 05:33 AM
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First you did not say if you have the lamp on low or not, start with that, then does the projector have a manual iris is close it down, if an auto iris, does it have a high contrast setting?. Also you need the auto iris off when doing the contrast and brightness so if you did not have it off, turn it off and redo the adjustments.
Lastly there are 3 rules of setting contrast
No Clipping Color
No Discolorations
NO EYE STRAIN.

Turning down the contrast so your eyes do not hurt is not a bad thing if the other above mentioned means of reducing light output have already been done.
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post #4 of 27 Old 12-09-2013, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies. Lamp is in low power mode. I just tried turning iris off and it made no difference to brightness or contrast settings. I still end up with the same setting numbers that are too bright. The iris did not seem to be making any changes on the test pattern bu does on any other image. I do not have a manual setting for the iris.
To get the image so I am not getting any eye strain I have to be around 5 for contrast but the calibrated setting ends up being around 20.
So if I run contrast at 5 why should I have ever used the calibration disk if I was just going to change it anyways? Does this mean I am losing some video clarity if I turn it down?

Thanks again for everyone's time.
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post #5 of 27 Old 12-09-2013, 08:46 PM
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Your projector is to bright for your screen size. You may be losing contrast ratio, but I have the wow disk and don't think it is all that great and never us it for contrast and brightness. The AVS 709 disk is much simpler to use and the one I use for all calibrations I do.
You may want to look into getting an ND (Neutral Density) filter for the projector to reduce the light output (like sunglasses over the lens) then as the lamp ages and looses output you can remove the filter. This will let you keep contrast at the higher setting and not hurt your eyes.
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post #6 of 27 Old 12-09-2013, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. If the projector is too bright for the screen size why does it seem that just the whites are what is overpowering? And do you think at the lower setting I am using now is actually giving up some quality that I can actually notice?

I have been comparing the projector to my calibrated Panasonic plasma and everything seems to be in the ball park except the bright whites.
I will look into the other calibration disk and the filter. Would a gray screen help tone down the whites a little? I need to get a different screen anyways since the one I got to get me going has is not motorized and has a lot of wrinkles that are not going away.

Thanks for your time.
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post #7 of 27 Old 12-10-2013, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Thanks for the reply. If the projector is too bright for the screen size why does it seem that just the whites are what is overpowering? And do you think at the lower setting I am using now is actually giving up some quality that I can actually notice?

I have been comparing the projector to my calibrated Panasonic plasma and everything seems to be in the ball park except the bright whites.
I will look into the other calibration disk and the filter. Would a gray screen help tone down the whites a little? I need to get a different screen anyways since the one I got to get me going has is not motorized and has a lot of wrinkles that are not going away.

Thanks for your time.

White is bright! Also make sure there is o setting called dynamic contrast, if so turn it off. If you have the iris on, try watching content with it off. Typically the iris will make darker scenes darker which would make the bright ones brighter.. After you are done with those, if it is still and issue, turn down the contrast and watch it for a week. If the projector is new, the light output will be reduced as the lamp ages 200-400 hours. You are not losing any quality just the pain in your eyes
No a gray screen is not for this purpose and would be a bad idea. How big is the screen you are using and what fabric?
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post #8 of 27 Old 12-10-2013, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for your help. It is a 92" elite screen with their max white. I only have 3 settings for the iris and off means it is wide open. I tried watching some video with it off and it does make a very small difference.
Going to look for an ND2 filter today. I got my measurements and will hope the camera shop with have something that is close in size.

Thanks again.
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post #9 of 27 Old 12-10-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Was able to get a variable ND filter today. On its lowest setting it pretty much killed the brightness of not just the whites but everything. So even though the filter took care of the extra brightness of the whites when I had contrast almost where cal disk said it should be it made the darks darker as well as everything in between. It seems like it may have affected the color some too and the image lost all of its pop. I will play around with it some more. When I put the filter up to the lens with the contrast pattern on the screen it make no difference to the pattern. Is this expected?

Thanks for your help.
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post #10 of 27 Old 12-11-2013, 09:55 PM
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OK...now the 7900 should be 0 or sometimes up to 2 for contrast according to all the calibrations online. How is this Disney wow disc getting you to move the contrast that high?. Are you sure the contrast shouldn't be 2?...are you losing detail in bright scenes when its set to 2?

Have you tried calibrating with the test pattern available from avs?..If 230-234 are visible on the white test pattern without it going pink when contrast is set to 0,1 or 2..then leave it at 2...Problem solved
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post #11 of 27 Old 12-12-2013, 12:34 AM
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You should post this in the Calibration section
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post #12 of 27 Old 12-12-2013, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

You should post this in the Calibration section

The info that would be given is download the AVS 709 free pattern disk http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration/0_100 and give that a try.
Turn off auto iris and any dynamic settings. Use movie/cinema mode, not dynamic or any other over processed mode. Set brightness so you can not see bar 16 flashing or any bars below. Set contrast so you see all the bars up to 252 flashing, recheck brightness after contrast is set.
Clipping data above 235 is no longer appropriate, especially if the display is to bright to start with.
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post #13 of 27 Old 12-12-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

The info that would be given is download the AVS 709 free pattern disk http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration/0_100 and give that a try.
Turn off auto iris and any dynamic settings. Use movie/cinema mode, not dynamic or any other over processed mode. Set brightness so you can not see bar 16 flashing or any bars below. Set contrast so you see all the bars up to 252 flashing, recheck brightness after contrast is set.
Clipping data above 235 is no longer appropriate, especially if the display is to bright to start with.

He's all set now then. smile.gif Contrast is the hardest thing to set(at least for me). With some displays, the test patterns don't work like they're supposed to. So then you need to watch for the color shift(usually turns a pinkish color).
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post #14 of 27 Old 12-12-2013, 11:29 AM
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Yes, if the display does not show WTW over 235 it can be a little rough. But normally you can change the BRP HDIM output to RGB so you can see the WTW set the contrast and switch back.. Should be within one or 2 clicks on most displays. This particular display is putting out to much light so the eye strain rule should be followed and contrast reduced to a comfortable viewing level.
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post #15 of 27 Old 12-12-2013, 11:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I downloaded the AVS709 patterns on MP4 and used my computer via HDMI cable to send them to the projector. I can not get any number over 235 so either my computer is clipping or projector is? Either way the calibration setting are similar between Disney WOW disc and AVS. All the patterns and background I look are are pinkish until I add about 10 to contrast then things start to appear whiter. My plasma they appear grey until I turn contrast almost to zero.

Is anyone staring to think something is not quite right with the projector?

Thanks for your help.
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post #16 of 27 Old 12-13-2013, 02:06 AM
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most computers / video cards by default will not show above 234 .. this is normal... (not a fault of the projector)
basically with the contrast set to 2, the bars from 230 to 234 should be visible and range from grey to very light grey.. Is this the case or not?

I think you would be better off calibrating at 0-255 levels. To do this you have to set the HDMI mode to enhanced on the projector. Then set the output on the computer and bluray player to 0-255 levels as well.
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post #17 of 27 Old 12-13-2013, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I just checked again this morning and the bars do vary in shades of a grayish pink with a pinkinsh background. It seemed as the projector was warming up it gets pinker. However I let it run for 30 minutes and came back to check it and it seems pretty much the same.
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post #18 of 27 Old 12-13-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

I just checked again this morning and the bars do vary in shades of a grayish pink with a pinkinsh background. It seemed as the projector was warming up it gets pinker. However I let it run for 30 minutes and came back to check it and it seems pretty much the same.

If you are talking about a contrast pattern looking pink, you need to turn down the contrast
3 rules
No color clipping (different pattern but on the AVS disk)
No discoloration (your pink color)
No eye strain
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post #19 of 27 Old 12-13-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I understand the basic rules now but seem to have a conflict with them. The pink is displaying at contrast setting of zero. To get the pink hue to go away I have to increase the contrast to at least 10 (then eye strain kicks in) which makes the whites much brighter. The more I turn down the contrast the pinker it gets.
Thanks again for the help.
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post #20 of 27 Old 12-13-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

I understand the basic rules now but seem to have a conflict with them. The pink is displaying at contrast setting of zero. To get the pink hue to go away I have to increase the contrast to at least 10 (then eye strain kicks in) which makes the whites much brighter. The more I turn down the contrast the pinker it gets.
Thanks again for the help.

Normally discoloration happens when contrast is pushed to high. You gray scale may be way off. It may be helpful to find the factory reset in the menu, do the reset and start over doing brightness first then contrast..
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post #21 of 27 Old 12-13-2013, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I did already happen to do a reset a couple of days ago. It didn't seem to make any difference. If the gray scale is potentially off that far will it be something that will be able to be overcome by professional calibration or an issue with the projector. I have read several reviews on this unit and no one mentions anything obviously off.

Thanks again for your help.
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post #22 of 27 Old 12-13-2013, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Instead of adjusting the contrast from 20 to 5, why don't you try one of the 14 numbers inbetween those and see if you can find a happy medium.
Greatest post ever
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post #23 of 27 Old 12-14-2013, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Latest update:
I burned a copy of the AVS709 disk and was using the white clipping test pattern. With a contrast setting of zero in cinema mode with Iris off I am now getting flashing bars all the way up to 253 so I know my receiver and blu-ray player are passing the whole signal. The issue still is that the bars all appear pinkish as well as the white in the background . To make sure the blu-ray player or the receiver were not introducing some of the pinkish tint I was seeing I hooked up the blu-ray player directly to the projector and was still seeing the pinkish lines. When hooked up to my plasma with the same signal the lines appear grayish as the pictures in the patterns manual show. I have adjusted just about every user setting to try to get rid of the pinkish tone and increasing the contrast up to around 20 seems to be the only way to get a decent white out of it and still be able to see the 235 line but then I am back to the whites being too bright which were giving us eye strain. The bars never really turn grayish they kind of go from a pinkish to a yellowish.

It does not appear the 2 other calibration articles I saw with this projector are having this pinkish issue.
Is this normal for a projector?
Am I going to be able to get rid of the issue or it there something fundamentally wrong with it?
Is it going to even be worth trying to work around it or just see about having the projector replaced?

Thanks again for the help.
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post #24 of 27 Old 12-14-2013, 04:54 PM
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Without seeing it in person no way to tell.
The assumption is you set brightness first.
Leave contrast at 0 and display the gray scale gradient and ramp patterns located in the misc pattern menu of AVS. Do all steps look pink or just the top one? With the ramp on the screen try the other color temp choices. If it clears up then a 2 point gray scale calibration will be able to fix it but you need the equipment and knowledge or hire someone to do tath.
Where are you located you have no city/state in your profile
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post #25 of 27 Old 12-14-2013, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I put the gray scale ramp up as you instructed and pretty much all of the bars have a pinkish color except the farthest left and farthest right which is a true white. AS I adjusted the color temp the pinkish tint stayed. I was able to adjust the color temp manually and remove some red contrast which seemed to get rid of the pinkish hue and gave me actual gray bars but not sure yet how that has affected everything else.
I am located just outside of Portland Oregon.

Thanks for your help.
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post #26 of 27 Old 12-15-2013, 04:36 AM
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sounds like a professional calibrations is in order. If you lowered the red gains and cuts and the pink went away I don't think anything is wrong with the unit.
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post #27 of 27 Old 12-15-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I was able to find out more about the user color adjustment in the manual. I does say that it more or less is a recommended normal adjustment. If you want a warmer image increase the red and decrease the blue. If you want a cooler image increase the blue and decrease the red. Or a combination. I am sure you get the point. Either way the image looks the best it has since I got it a couple of weeks ago.
Thanks for steering me to the AVS709 information. Way better than the Disney disk. Disney dumbs everything down so far that you are almost guaranteed to make a mistake trying to set something up especially with the contrast adjustment.
The AVS709 test patterns made more sense showing how the signal is basically broken up and helping you visualize at the exact point you would be getting clipping or crushing your blacks. I feel I got a really good grasp of the basic adjustments now. I am going to start looking into some beginner calibration equipment. I do have a geek squad guy I was happy with that did my plasma. He seemed to know what he was doing and said I should wait about 200 hours before doing cal. We are at about 60 now.

Thanks again for the help.
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