New Set-Up - Need Mounting Advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 12-09-2013, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone,

I just purchased my first projector set-up and wanted to get advice on an optimal mounting solution for image quality. I previously was using a pioneer 151 FD display (the 60 inch Elite Kuro) with matching elite SC-37 receiver, blu-ray play and definitive technology super towers. I'll be using the same sound system and now a new Epson 5020 UBE projector and Elite 125 inch 16:9 acoustically transparent electric screen. What mount should i use, I'm thinking a ceiling mount but based on my limited amount of research something with a drop down arm to make the projector closer to the center of the screen might help out with image quality? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
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post #2 of 26 Old 12-09-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDLOP View Post

Hi Everyone,

I just purchased my first projector set-up and wanted to get advice on an optimal mounting solution for image quality. I previously was using a pioneer 151 FD display (the 60 inch Elite Kuro) with matching elite SC-37 receiver, blu-ray play and definitive technology super towers. I'll be using the same sound system and now a new Epson 5020 UBE projector and Elite 125 inch 16:9 acoustically transparent electric screen. What mount should i use, I'm thinking a ceiling mount but based on my limited amount of research something with a drop down arm to make the projector closer to the center of the screen might help out with image quality? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

For quality mounts the consensus is either Chief or Peerless. There are many cheaper mounts on the market that others may suggest.

Chief:

http://www.chiefmfg.com/Series/RPMx

Peerless:

https://www.peerless-av.com/en-us/professional/products/PRGS-UNV
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post #3 of 26 Old 12-10-2013, 07:05 AM
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There is no mount better than the Chief RPMAU and the Peerless is NOT close in quality. It's good, but not nearly as good as the RPMAU Elite mount from Chief.

This is a MOUNT only, it doesn't include the extension pipe, which is 1.5" threaded pipe available online or from your local Home Depot store.

It also doesn't include the ceiling plate, as many ceilings can be different, but you can pick up 1.5" flanges for a few bucks online, or get an 'official' ceiling plate from any manufacturer as long as it accepts 1.5" pipe.

For what it's worth, I regularly get Chief Elite mounts on eBay for well under $100, though at the moment, this is the cheapest one I see on there:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chief-Rpmau-Elite-Inverted-Universal-Mnt-/231109063964?pt=US_Projector_Mounts_Stands&hash=item35cf2c751c

If you can wait, you can price shop the mount.
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post #4 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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i picked up the chief mini - thanks for the rec!

For mounting my screen, what type and size bolts/screw and anchors would you recommend? Its a 125 inch elite electric 16:9 acoustically transparent screen that weighs about 35 lbs. I plan on mounting the screen to the ceiling, away from the wall, using only the holes that are on the housing rather than using brackets.
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post #5 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DDLOP View Post

i picked up the chief mini - thanks for the rec!

For mounting my screen, what type and size bolts/screw and anchors would you recommend? Its a 125 inch elite electric 16:9 acoustically transparent screen that weighs about 35 lbs. I plan on mounting the screen to the ceiling, away from the wall, using only the holes that are on the housing rather than using brackets.
That's a lot more difficult.

I insist that anything which is ceiling mounted be mounted to joists. If there are no joists, then I will get trim panels from the hardware store and mount the trim panel to the joists, then mount to the trim panel using 1/4" Togglers.

Togglers are awesome and you can use a 1/4" screw eye into it directly to hang the screen from if you want. But, despite their weight rating, I would not go exclusively into a drywall ceiling with them. I would go into joists, or into a trim piece connected to joists.

If you can go directly into joists, then a screw eye right into the joist will be fine.
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post #6 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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DDLOP,
Is this one you purchased?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680075-REG/Chief_RSAUW_RSMD000_Mini_RPA_Projector.html

I need a low profile bracket. I appears that this can screw directly into the ceiling without a mounting bracket and it is universal and fits my pj (w1080st).
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post #7 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post

DDLOP,
Is this one you purchased?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680075-REG/Chief_RSAUW_RSMD000_Mini_RPA_Projector.html

I need a low profile bracket. I appears that this can screw directly into the ceiling without a mounting bracket and it is universal and fits my pj (w1080st).

Yes, that is the one - and good price!
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post #8 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DDLOP View Post

Yes, that is the one - and good price!

Am I correct in assuming that you do not need anything else unless you want/need a ceiling plate to install a drop down tube?
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post #9 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know what size screws/bolts i would need to mount an Elite 125 inch 16:9 acoustically transparent electric screen directly to the joists using the holes on the housing rather than using brackets? I asked elite and they said they didn't have that information....
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post #10 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 02:42 PM
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I suppose it depends on the diameter of the holes in the housing. However if you are talking about the length of the screws I would say a couple of inches to clear the sheet rock and anchor into the joist would be plenty.
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post #11 of 26 Old 12-11-2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post

DDLOP,
Is this one you purchased?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680075-REG/Chief_RSAUW_RSMD000_Mini_RPA_Projector.html

I need a low profile bracket. I appears that this can screw directly into the ceiling without a mounting bracket and it is universal and fits my pj (w1080st).
I'm not sure if he got that one or the RSMAU which is the mini-Elite mount.

The RPM mount is nothing like the Elite mounts and you would be better off with a Peerless PRG over the Chief RPM mount.

The mini Elite mount is far better...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680078-REG/Chief_RSMAU_RSMAU_Mini_RPA_Elite.html

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post #12 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

I'm not sure if he got that one or the RSMAU which is the mini-Elite mount.

The RPM mount is nothing like the Elite mounts and you would be better off with a Peerless PRG over the Chief RPM mount.

The mini Elite mount is far better...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680078-REG/Chief_RSMAU_RSMAU_Mini_RPA_Elite.html

Thanks for the clarification on the mount.

Perhaps you could help me with a couple of other things. Do you have any suggestions for a reasonably priced AV receiver? I don't need anything real high end just the basics and it needs to interface with my sound bar. I figured I would just use a hdmi splitter to give me two hdmi outs. Not sure what to get there either and finally my hdmi out cables will need to be 20' so do I need to consider anything special?
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post #13 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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So after examining my room closely, I have some interesting news to report! (Keep in mind this is a long term rental when making recommendations, but i have no hesitation when it comes to drilling holes and then putting in some putty later). It appears that whatever jackass built my apt building almost completely ignored the building code in NYC. There are almost no joists/studs in the ceiling, i checked with a stud finder and then also used a drill bit to verify my findings at it appears that there are 2 small joists near the middle of the ceiling, so of no help for mounting the screen or the projector. I throw myself on the mercy of the court....anyone have any creative/bright ideas?

For the screen i was thinking that i should attach L brackets into the molding and ceiling using some anchors and then maybe hang a chain across to hook the screen to?

For the projector my friend suggested that he could build a sturdy shelf in the back of the room and attach it to the wall for extra stability and the we could mount the projector on the underside of one of the shelves for added security using a normal projector mount.

What does everyone think?

Thanks!

P.S. - just found these - based on the load ratings it looks like this should easily be able to hold the 35 lbs screen with the brackets in either the drywall ceiling or wall even without any joist connection - anyone have experience with this product?

http://www.toggler.com/pdf/toggle.pdf

Thanks.
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post #14 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 11:17 AM
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DDLOP

Hanging anything from the ceiling using sheet rock as a substrate is very iffy at best. I would never hang a pj and its accompanying bracket from the ceiling. Here is the way I look at it. Your are making 4 holes to mount the bracket in a relatively small pattern. Each of those holes has compromised the sheet rock now take all four of them together and you could very well pull down the entire section in between the 4 holes. The screen is perhaps less of a problem but an issue none the less. I really think there are ceiling/floor joists in the ceiling because if there weren't or if they are more than 16" on center the sheet rock would bow and you would know it. What you don't know until you find two of them is which way they are running. I have never had much luck using my stud finder. What I do is take a small nail and search for a stud moving the nail is 1/2" increments. If you just missed one is could be that it will take a lot of holes, think 30 of them before you find another one. Once you find a stud find each side of it, since it is 1.5" wide that will not be too difficult. Make sure you are exactly on one of the edges, measure to the center which is 3/4". The center of the next stud should be 16", or maybe even 12" depending on the building code. Maybe you already knew all of this.
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post #15 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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makes sense. I was only planning on trying the screen with the drywall/sheet rock mounts. For the projector I'm having a custom housing installed attached to the floor and the wall, so no worries on that front. I'll search further for joists for the screen tonight. Thanks for all of the advice and guidance!
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post #16 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 11:33 AM
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Snaptoggles certainly are the product to use, but you must be very cautious of how you use them and use your best judgment. I believe most of their tests are related to them being used in walls, not ceilings, with a force perpendicular to the Toggler, not straight out. Thought 30 pounds isn't much, and it likely WILL hold without issue, the concern would be someone tugging on it.

You can always use a board and Snaptoggle it to the drywall in 8 or 10 different locations before hanging the screen from that board. Weird what is going on with the ceiling, but not surprising really.

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post #17 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDLOP View Post

makes sense. I was only planning on trying the screen with the drywall/sheet rock mounts. For the projector I'm having a custom housing installed attached to the floor and the wall, so no worries on that front. I'll search further for joists for the screen tonight. Thanks for all of the advice and guidance!

The screen is much less of a concern vs the pj. I don't know what size screen you are going to use but a 110" elite is only 29 pounds which is less than 15 pounds per anchor. The issue is the constant vibration of the screen motor (assuming it is electric) so finding the ceiling member to mount is much much better. Good luck!
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post #18 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

There is no mount better than the Chief RPMAU and the Peerless is NOT close in quality. It's good, but not nearly as good as the RPMAU Elite mount from Chief.

This is a MOUNT only, it doesn't include the extension pipe, which is 1.5" threaded pipe available online or from your local Home Depot store.

It also doesn't include the ceiling plate, as many ceilings can be different, but you can pick up 1.5" flanges for a few bucks online, or get an 'official' ceiling plate from any manufacturer as long as it accepts 1.5" pipe.

For what it's worth, I regularly get Chief Elite mounts on eBay for well under $100, though at the moment, this is the cheapest one I see on there:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chief-Rpmau-Elite-Inverted-Universal-Mnt-/231109063964?pt=US_Projector_Mounts_Stands&hash=item35cf2c751c

If you can wait, you can price shop the mount.

The Peerless mount being discussed is really nicely engineered, with the major caveat that if you directly ceiling mount it, or opposed to using an extension pipe, you have no yaw adjustment, unless you either 1) loosen the anchor screws and then re-tighten them, which is what Peerless wants you to do, or 2) loosen and adjust the universal mounting bracket, which in theory you can do while the projector is hanging off it, but it's very fiddly. The fine-grained tilt and roll controls on the Peerless are great, but I'm not sure what the point is when the engineers apparently forgot that we live in a three-dimensional world, and as a result of this oversight yaw control is extraordinarily crude.

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post #19 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Snaptoggles certainly are the product to use, but you must be very cautious of how you use them and use your best judgment. I believe most of their tests are related to them being used in walls, not ceilings, with a force perpendicular to the Toggler, not straight out. Thought 30 pounds isn't much, and it likely WILL hold without issue, the concern would be someone tugging on it.

You can always use a board and Snaptoggle it to the drywall in 8 or 10 different locations before hanging the screen from that board. Weird what is going on with the ceiling, but not surprising really.

Totally agree. I have built a few homes and remodeled at couple of older ones. Sheetrock gets a lot of damage during installation and once everything is finished it is not obvious. An area that was messed up is no longer stable to hold anything close to a projector. The screen is probably a safe bet if you have to. I really think there are floor joists in the ceiling if there is another floor and if there is not a second floor there has to be something to span the roof trusses.

Ok, I think I know something about construction and remodeling but admittedly I know nothing about projectors. I am trying to finish my purchase decisions and move the to easy part, assuming I have bought the correct items. So AV or anyone else please give me some input.

1. I sorta chose the Benz w1080st because I had electrical pretty close, however it is not huge deal to move the projector back further and eliminate the short throw selection. Is there really any reason to not have a st projector? Also I want to keep the pj as close to the ceiling as possible. I could not even figure out how far the w1070 would have to be from the ceiling at a throw distance of say 10'5" or 9'6. Brightness on the Optima is a little better and I have some ambient light.

2. I will get either a 100"D or a 110"D screen from elite and this is perhaps my most difficult decision because of conflicting info. My ceilings are 8'3" and I sit 12' away from the screen. I looked on the screen thread and it looked like 110D was too big. I really need a real world comment on this before I but a screen that is not easy to return.

3. Need some 3D glasses and was thinking about the Sansonic Rainbow on AMZ for $22 per pair. Any thoughts?

4. Will need to run HDMI cables for at least 20 feet are there limitations on how far without losing pic quality? On the same topic I will likely need to get a splitter for the HDMI OUT to go to my TV and the PJ and suggestions?

That pretty much sums it up. Please comment on any or all of my concerns and thank you. I really want to get my orders in asap but I hate returns so I want to try and get it right the first time.
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post #20 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post

Totally agree. I have built a few homes and remodeled at couple of older ones. Sheetrock gets a lot of damage during installation and once everything is finished it is not obvious. An area that was messed up is no longer stable to hold anything close to a projector. The screen is probably a safe bet if you have to. I really think there are floor joists in the ceiling if there is another floor and if there is not a second floor there has to be something to span the roof trusses.

Ok, I think I know something about construction and remodeling but admittedly I know nothing about projectors. I am trying to finish my purchase decisions and move the to easy part, assuming I have bought the correct items. So AV or anyone else please give me some input.

1. I sorta chose the Benz w1080st because I had electrical pretty close, however it is not huge deal to move the projector back further and eliminate the short throw selection. Is there really any reason to not have a st projector? Also I want to keep the pj as close to the ceiling as possible. I could not even figure out how far the w1070 would have to be from the ceiling at a throw distance of say 10'5" or 9'6. Brightness on the Optima is a little better and I have some ambient light.

2. I will get either a 100"D or a 110"D screen from elite and this is perhaps my most difficult decision because of conflicting info. My ceilings are 8'3" and I sit 12' away from the screen. I looked on the screen thread and it looked like 110D was too big. I really need a real world comment on this before I but a screen that is not easy to return.

3. Need some 3D glasses and was thinking about the Sansonic Rainbow on AMZ for $22 per pair. Any thoughts?

4. Will need to run HDMI cables for at least 20 feet are there limitations on how far without losing pic quality? On the same topic I will likely need to get a splitter for the HDMI OUT to go to my TV and the PJ and suggestions?

That pretty much sums it up. Please comment on any or all of my concerns and thank you. I really want to get my orders in asap but I hate returns so I want to try and get it right the first time.

Don't have good answers to all, but some:

- A short throw projector will sit in your peripheral vision, which is especially annoying when a projector has a fair bit of light leakage, as the Benqs do. Plus that light leakage will be more likely to hit the screen and impact the image.

- I sit at 13 ft and have a 120 inch screen, with which I'm very happy, but preferred size is a pretty subjective thing, some prefer to have the entire screen in their visual focus, others to have their peripheral vision engaged. (I'm more in the latter category.)

- HDMI should be binary in terms of picture quality, i.e. they either work or they don't. 20 ft doesn't sound problematic for regular cables, for longer runs redmere seems to work well.

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post #21 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post

Don't have good answers to all, but some:

- A short throw projector will sit in your peripheral vision, which is especially annoying when a projector has a fair bit of light leakage, as the Benqs do. Plus that light leakage will be more likely to hit the screen and impact the image.

- I sit at 13 ft and have a 120 inch screen, with which I'm very happy, but preferred size is a pretty subjective thing, some prefer to have the entire screen in their visual focus, others to have their peripheral vision engaged. (I'm more in the latter category.)

- HDMI should be binary in terms of picture quality, i.e. they either work or they don't. 20 ft doesn't sound problematic for regular cables, for longer runs redmere seems to work well.

Sounds like the screen size at 110D is ok.

Good point on the peripheral vision issue. Never heard that before but it certainly makes sense. What do you have?
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post #22 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 06:22 PM
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Sounds like the screen size at 110D is ok.

Good point on the peripheral vision issue. Never heard that before but it certainly makes sense. What do you have?

Re screen size, keep in mind that for widescreen content the black bars will significantly reduce the area of a 16:9 screen. But even for 16:9 content I don't find 120" diagonal overwhelming at 13 feet, to me it's just right, though with swooping aerial footage it's pretty immersive, which some might find a bit much.

I have a Benq W1070 ceiling mounted pretty close to the maximum distance from the screen. Note that a number of folks have observed that the projector cannot be focused perfectly across the full viewing field when it's at the maximum range from the screen, though with actual content, as opposed to text or focusing patterns, this isn't something I can discern.

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post #23 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 06:38 PM
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Re screen size, keep in mind that for widescreen content the black bars will significantly reduce the area of a 16:9 screen. But even for 16:9 content I don't find 120" diagonal overwhelming at 13 feet, to me it's just right, though with swooping aerial footage it's pretty immersive, which some might find a bit much.

I have a Benq W1070 ceiling mounted pretty close to the maximum distance from the screen. Note that a number of folks have observed that the projector cannot be focused perfectly across the full viewing field when it's at the maximum range from the screen, though with actual content, as opposed to text or focusing patterns, this isn't something I can discern.

Only using this for movies not text. On my 70" lcd I can zoom the picture to fill the entire screen. Is this also the case with a projector?
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post #24 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 07:12 PM
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Only using this for movies not text. On my 70" lcd I can zoom the picture to fill the entire screen. Is this also the case with a projector?

If by zoom you mean stretch the picture into an incorrect aspect ratio, sure, you can do that with the projector. If you mean crop the picture, e.g. so a widescreen picture displays without bars but you lose the extreme left and right content, then no, I don't think a projector will let you do that, though if your screen were on a black wall, you could in theory overshoot the screen to achieve this. But in both cases, I guess I'd ask why you'd possibly want to do such a thing? I suppose on a TV the answer is to make the picture bigger, but that's less needed with a big projector image, so you might as well watch the image as the director intended you to see it, i.e. neither cropped nor distorted. My two cents, anyway.

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post #25 of 26 Old 12-12-2013, 07:39 PM
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Never had a projector so I don't know, but on a tv it is not so bad to zoom the image larger. Stretch is not so good because it distorts the image. Zoom and stretch are not the same. Anyway I appreciate your comments and advice. So far you are the only one offering anything. AV, you do this for a living, how about some help.
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post #26 of 26 Old 12-13-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know a reasonably priced installer in the new york city area? I'm in a rental and I'm having trouble installing the ceiling mounted projector. I would only need him to mount the projector to the ceiling, as the wiring and everything else has been taken care of, any ideas?

Thanks
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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