Possible upgrade path for old school projector (a HD25e?) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey All,

I have a old school crt style projector (nex xg 1100) which has served me well over the years, but I'm thinking it's time to embrace newer technology.
The Nec is certainly bright enough, and the media pc it is connected as a secondary display to does a good job converting 4:3 and 16:9 std def and hi def content to 1600x1200,
The projector can go higher but it's painful with focus is going soft. Displaying any PC based window type applications ie a text editor/spread sheet is not worth the bother. Besides, that is what the primary computer monitor is for...

The Nec has rich blacks, excellent color and bright whites. But it is past retirement age. Between no 3d support, and disappointing 1080P performance it's time is near.

I was wondering if the Optoma HD25e would be a disappointment?

My biggest concerns are the low 20,000: 1 contrast ratio, and possible rainbow artifacts and screen door effects.

Would this unit be a good purchase or do I need to save up for a higher priced unit?
ideally, I'd like to upgrade to a smart 4K display with 3d but $$$$ is a problem.

This is a DLP based unit, should I consider d-ila or lcd instead?

Note the primary use is display of a/v material.
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post

Hey All,

I have a old school crt style projector (nex xg 1100) which has served me well over the years, but I'm thinking it's time to embrace newer technology.
The Nec is certainly bright enough, and the media pc it is connected as a secondary display to does a good job converting 4:3 and 16:9 std def and hi def content to 1600x1200,
The projector can go higher but it's painful with focus is going soft. Displaying any PC based window type applications ie a text editor/spread sheet is not worth the bother. Besides, that is what the primary computer monitor is for...

The Nec has rich blacks, excellent color and bright whites. But it is past retirement age. Between no 3d support, and disappointing 1080P performance it's time is near.

I was wondering if the Optoma HD25e would be a disappointment?

My biggest concerns are the low 20,000: 1 contrast ratio, and possible rainbow artifacts and screen door effects.

Would this unit be a good purchase or do I need to save up for a higher priced unit?
ideally, I'd like to upgrade to a smart 4K display with 3d but $$$$ is a problem.

This is a DLP based unit, should I consider d-ila or lcd instead?

Note the primary use is display of a/v material.

How large is your screen?
What are your projector placement requirements (how far back is the projector placed from the screen)?
Do you have ambient light when you use the projector or is the room fairly dark?
What is your budget?
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Currently my screen is 108 inches diag, but can and should be smaller, a 90" diag image would fit the room a bit better.
I would even consider a 72 in flat panel but the large screen monitors are a bit on the spendy side.
The current projector is ceiling mounted and approx. 12ft from the screen, but the new unit could be closer.
The room is fairly dark, and during daylight hours both a small window and door near the back of the room and be closed / covered for complete light control.
The room is also painted a flat medium dark grey.
Cost wise, I'd like to be not a lot more than the current cost of the hd-25e, but being new to "new" products I'm not sure if what I want can be had for the price range I am looking at.
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post

Currently my screen is 108 inches diag, but can and should be smaller, a 90" diag image would fit the room a bit better.
I would even consider a 72 in flat panel but the large screen monitors are a bit on the spendy side.
The current projector is ceiling mounted and approx. 12ft from the screen, but the new unit could be closer.
The room is fairly dark, and during daylight hours both a small window and door near the back of the room and be closed / covered for complete light control.
The room is also painted a flat medium dark grey.
Cost wise, I'd like to be not a lot more than the current cost of the hd-25e, but being new to "new" products I'm not sure if what I want can be had for the price range I am looking at.

The Optoma HD25E is a light cannon. It is probably too bright for your needs. Based on what you describe I would look into:
- The BenQ W1070 should work well for you for a 100-108" diag screen.
- It has plenty of lumens, and would work from your current projector placement.
- It is a DC3 chip DLP and is super sharp for text based useage.
This is another one that would work well for you:
- Misubishi 7900DW
- Same as above, it is a single chip DLP projector and is nice and sharp for text/AV
- Both have minimal lag

Both are under $1K at reputable dealers like ProjectorPeople.

LcoS is a great projector technology and has more contrast than the above, but may not really be much better for text/av and are considerably more expensive. A new one will start around the $3.5K range.
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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According to the reviews the Optoma HD25e I'm looking at and the Ben Q are nearly identical and product a max output of 2000 lumens.
Optoma does have a similar model HD-25lx ? that pumps out 2800 lumens that is obviously going to be too bright.
But don't these units have user adjustments for bright and contrast?
I'm thinking just turn down the levels is necessary. I'm thinking I'd need to use the econo mode in any case to reduce brightness/improve black levels
The Mitsubishi seems to have a of fair number of complaints include being pretty dim and a replacement lamp cost.

Btw: My Nec produces a max of 1100 lumens, but there are times however where a bit more light would be welcome.

It still sounds like the 25e is the best item for the price range
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post #6 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post

According to the reviews the Optoma HD25e I'm looking at and the Ben Q are nearly identical and product a max output of 2000 lumens.
Optoma does have a similar model HD-25lx ? that pumps out 2800 lumens that is obviously going to be too bright.
But don't these units have user adjustments for bright and contrast?
I'm thinking just turn down the levels is necessary. I'm thinking I'd need to use the econo mode in any case to reduce brightness/improve black levels
The Mitsubishi seems to have a of fair number of complaints include being pretty dim and a replacement lamp cost.

Btw: My Nec produces a max of 1100 lumens, but there are times however where a bit more light would be welcome.

It still sounds like the 25e is the best item for the price range

http://www.optomausa.com/products/detail/HD25e

Accroding to Optoma the HD25e is 2800 lumens. The HD25-LV is 3200 lumens.

I would probably go with the BenQ or look into the Optoma 131Xe that is 2500 lumens but there have been lots of reports of lens softness issues that could affect your needs as an AV device.
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post #7 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting, maybe I was reading the spec wrong, or amazon or newegg or some other site posted the wrong specs. I forget where I read lumens ratings from but I was under the impression 2000 was the value.
2800 does sound a bit more that I would need, even if the room is fully lit. But like I implied the Nec is bright enough (but only when the room is very dark) and a few hundred more lumens would be welcome.

But doubling might be a bit too much.

BTW: What is the downside to having more lumens than needed, eg: wouldn't running in eco mode and turning down the contrast/bright controls fix any issues ?

I'll take a look at the 131xe reviews later tonight...

ok, I'm sold, the 131 does every thing the hd-25 dfoes but for about 100 or more less.

according to Kurt Palmer's site the nec is rated for 15 to 20 K cr so either projector will replace it quite nicely.

Now I just have to wait till after the holidays to do the order...
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post #8 of 15 Old 12-16-2013, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post

Interesting, maybe I was reading the spec wrong, or amazon or newegg or some other site posted the wrong specs. I forget where I read lumens ratings from but I was under the impression 2000 was the value.
2800 does sound a bit more that I would need, even if the room is fully lit. But like I implied the Nec is bright enough (but only when the room is very dark) and a few hundred more lumens would be welcome.

But doubling might be a bit too much.

BTW: What is the downside to having more lumens than needed, eg: wouldn't running in eco mode and turning down the contrast/bright controls fix any issues ?

I'll take a look at the 131xe reviews later tonight...

ok, I'm sold, the 131 does every thing the hd-25 dfoes but for about 100 or more less.

according to Kurt Palmer's site the nec is rated for 15 to 20 K cr so either projector will replace it quite nicely.

Now I just have to wait till after the holidays to do the order...

Too many lumens can affect blacks and shadow detail. Also makes it harder to dial in colors. That said, yes, you can do things to lower the lumens. Turn brilliant color to 0-2 setting, run the lamp in Eco mode and also keep in mind that lamps start dimming as soon as you start using the projector. In other words, if you measured the lumens on your PJ on day 1 and then measured them a year later, you will notice some dimming. And if you plan on doing lots of 3D, lumens are important, as you lose anywhere from 50-70% of your light through the glasses. It just depends on the type of 3D glasses you are using and the technology.

Waiting until after the holidays is not a bad thing, BenQ should be releasing another model or two, and MSRP on a number of the projectors out there is already under $1K.
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post #9 of 15 Old 12-17-2013, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post

according to Kurt Palmer's site the nec is rated for 15 to 20 K cr so either projector will replace it quite nicely.

L

O

L


These entry level dlps you are talking about will do a terrible job matching the black levels of a crt. Terrible. If you like black levels, keep the crt and start saving for a sony or JVC, and even then they cannot match the crt in certain scenes. FYI
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post #10 of 15 Old 12-17-2013, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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You failed too mention several owners (reviews from Amazon) voice many complaints about focus issues for both the hd-131 and the hd25 series.
While Video/Multimedia will be the primary usage, I still want to be able to read text from email, spreadsheets, pdf files etc.

My existing unit has focus issues, I can't justify replacing one with focus issues with another that has focus issues.
I guess I need to bump up the cost for one in the $1000 to $2000 range. I'll look at the Sony and JVC models and see what owners have to say about them...

thanks for all the input so far...
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post #11 of 15 Old 12-17-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post

You failed too mention several owners (reviews from Amazon) voice many complaints about focus issues for both the hd-131 and the hd25 series.
While Video/Multimedia will be the primary usage, I still want to be able to read text from email, spreadsheets, pdf files etc.

My existing unit has focus issues, I can't justify replacing one with focus issues with another that has focus issues.
I guess I need to bump up the cost for one in the $1000 to $2000 range. I'll look at the Sony and JVC models and see what owners have to say about them...

thanks for all the input so far...

Actually I mentioned focus issues in post #6 of this thread smile.gif I would recommend the BenQ at this point. It should have everything you need for under $1K. Of course black levels will not match a CRT, but you are looking at over $3K at JVC and Sony Lcos style projectors for that.
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post #12 of 15 Old 12-17-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post

You failed too mention several owners (reviews from Amazon) voice many complaints about focus issues for both the hd-131 and the hd25 series.
While Video/Multimedia will be the primary usage, I still want to be able to read text from email, spreadsheets, pdf files etc.

My existing unit has focus issues, I can't justify replacing one with focus issues with another that has focus issues.
I guess I need to bump up the cost for one in the $1000 to $2000 range. I'll look at the Sony and JVC models and see what owners have to say about them...

thanks for all the input so far...
Lcos is much more crt like. The projectors you are looking at have pretty crap black levels when compared to other digitals. When compared to a crt it's gargantuan. Take it from a former crt person, there seem to be few of is left in <3000 forum.
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post #13 of 15 Old 12-24-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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the benq has even worse cr ratings than the optoma or the epson
lcos still cost too much, at those prices, I might as well start looking at 80" panels
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-24-2013, 01:00 PM
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the benq has even worse cr ratings than the optoma or the epson
lcos still cost too much, at those prices, I might as well start looking at 80" panels

The Epson CR ratings are overblown by the manufacturer. The BenQ and the Optoma have much better shadow detail and black levels and contrast levels.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/epson-home-cinema-3020-projector-image-quality-2/#black-levels-comparison

LCD has its advantages over DLP, but unless you step up into the $2500-5000 range you are not going to get better black levels. The upcoming BenQ W7500 should give the Epson 5030 a run for it's money in terms of black level. If you are a contrast guy, the LCOS technologies are really the only way to go.
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-26-2014, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a follow up in this, I finally settled on the Epson 3020 and the image quality is fantastic.
Nice bright and sharp image, excellent black levels, quiet, and doesn't double as a space heater.

I only wish this projector existed 5 years ago when I upgraded from a sony 1252 to the nec xg110.
I would have bought it instead. I wouldn't classify this as an entry level, based on cost alone, more like a low mid level unit.

Since the nec was in need of replacement tubes and most recently the osd board it was time to cut my losses and move into 21 cent. hardware.

The Epson is definitely singing the song "any thing you can do I can do better"


btw I still have both the sony and nec so if you need or want a cheap working spares pj im me.


did I say cheap ?
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