Any decent budget LED projectors in the pipeline? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-28-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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So far, the only LED projectors I've seen, that I could afford at least, have been too weak to use in anything other than a completely blacked out room and have been crammed into tiny casings, with the result that tiny noisy fans have to be used. So I'm wondering if there's any information or rumours about a budget (i.e under £500) device that fixes these two problems?

If not, I'll probably have to settle for a 1024x768 50" Panasonic Plasma, which are on sale for £299 at the moment. It's a good deal and at 7-8ft away I don't think I'd be able to see the difference from a 1080p set, I was more interested in a projector due to it being small, easily moved by myself, not having a slab on the wall that people can bump into and break, using less power than a Plasma but giving a better picture than a LCD and as a bonus, being able to have a much bigger picture but I'd settle for a 720p projector and keep the image small enough (i.e 50-60") so that the difference between 720/1080 isn't noticeable if necessary.

I should ask though, would a projector be as sharp as a Plasma for console/PC gaming? I'm thinking of text in particular, which is more of an issue with PC gaming where they tend to have more of it or use smaller fonts than console games. Obviously to some extent, this is countered by having a bigger screen though.
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-28-2013, 10:01 PM
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I would hold off and making a decission on buying anything at this moment since CES 2014 is just around the corner in about 1 week and a half.
If you do have a display that is functional that could hold you over until at least another few months that would help.
1024x768 ? are you sure that plasma is 1024x768 50 ? and not 1280×720 ?
1024x768 is not even high definition.
I know the fiirst generation of plasmas were extended defintion in the ball parks of 1024x768.
I don't know the prices for 720P LED projectors are in the UK but you can get the Acer K335 for around $ 1,000 USDs.
The Acer K335 is 720P at 1000 lumens, that's Acer's claim.
The LGPF80G is 1080P and LG claims it's 1000 Lumens and it will be priced here we hope around $ 1,200 to $1,000.
However as for me I am going to wait it out and see what projectors that will be coming out next year.
Perhaps we might see them raising the Lumens a bit perhaps up to 1200 Lumens, we hope.
I saw a LG Plasma here in the US at Mircro Center a few months ago for $ 599 for a 60 inch TV and 1080P.
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-29-2013, 03:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep, it's definitely 1024x768 http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+Flat+Screen+TV/Plasma+TV/TX-P50X60B/Specification/12231891/index.html?trackInfo=true

Even 1000 Lumens is a rather low compared to bulb projectors, at around 2500 Lumens, so I'm not sure 1000-1200 Lumens would be sufficient to use in a non-blacked out room either.

I could get a 1080P Plasma for more money but I'm reluctant to spend a lot when what I really want is a projector, so when I saw the Panasonic was on sale for £299 I thought it might keep me going for a year or two until there's a decent LED projector that I can afford. I'm still using my old Sony XBR800 36" CRT, so even the 1024x768 Panasonic would probably resolve better and have sharper focus than that. I also kinda need to lose the CRT so that I can get on with reflooring my living room!

I've started using a 22" Dell LCD monitor to watch TV (connected to a Raspberry Pi running XBMC) when I'm on my own, only using the Sony to play console/PC games or when I have company, as I found that the Sony uses 300W more than the LCD. So I suppose I could continue doing that if I got a bulb projector to make it last longer, except I really need to use the LCD as a secondary monitor on my PC for my flight sims, so I'd have to buy another LCD to use as a TV which would be extra cost.

You're probably right that I should wait and see what comes out with CES 2014 though. Worst comes to worst and that doesn't offer up anything and I miss the chance to get a cheap Plasma, I'll probably have to settle for a 40" LCD, which are around £300-350.
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-29-2013, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, I just had a quick look and I could get the 2500 Lumens 720p OPTOMA HD600XLV for £270, so maybe it would be more sensible to buy that rather than the Pansonic Plasma to tide me over whilst I'm waiting for a decent LED projector.

I don't know if it's much good and the fan seems a bit noisy at 28/30db but I might be able to find another projector that's better for around that price.

I still need advice on how projectors compare to Plasma in terms of sharpness/focus for gaming though.
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-30-2013, 07:27 AM
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That's one good reason to drop the CRT the electric costs alone.
300 watts imagion all those watts as dollars or £ going out the door.
That's why if I ever buy another computer for simple tasks to buy a tablet and perhaps by a solar panel to charge it instead of using the home electrical outlet.
So to with the LGPA75U I have it uses less watts than the old CRT HD TV I have.
My dream or plan ? is to have lower power consumption electronics so I can buy a deep cycle battery and use a solar panel.
Yes you could buy the 2500 Lumens 720p OPTOMA HD600XLV for £270 but ?
It's a bulb projector right ?
I know, if it dies in 3 or 5 years trow it in the trash, but think about all the electrical power it consumed, and ? not just the new bulb costs but if it's not covered under some protection plan then think about the color wheel costs.
Yes, some have said the cost of bulbs are coming down for the bulb projectors but they don't often think of all the other associated costs like the color wheel, and power consumption.
Yes, those bulbs in those bulb projectors use up a lot of watts not counting the other electronics in the projector that needs power.
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post #6 of 15 Old 12-30-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doveman View Post

Yep, it's definitely 1024x768 http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+Flat+Screen+TV/Plasma+TV/TX-P50X60B/Specification/12231891/index.html?trackInfo=true

Even 1000 Lumens is a rather low compared to bulb projectors, at around 2500 Lumens, so I'm not sure 1000-1200 Lumens would be sufficient to use in a non-blacked out room either.


Sorry for the double posts.


The LGPA75U I have LG says it's 700 lumens, but some reviews say it's about 1/3 less of that.
Still ? I can have a LED 12 watts lamp light that is simulated of a 40 watt regular light bulb in the back of the room and still can see the screen fine.
Now if we turn on the over head flurescent 4 tubes each at 40 watts the picture get's washed out.
So ? even if the have 1 or 2 LED light bulbs in 2 lamps at the back of the room would be fine.
Yes, it would effect the picture a little bit but the picture is still watchable.
Now figure the LGPF80G at their claimed 1000 lumens ?
Or we get something new introduced at CES next week ?
Maybe a 1200 Lumen ? or even a 1500 Lumen LED projector ? we shall see maybe.
Now those would be what those manufactures claim what the Lumens is.
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post #7 of 15 Old 12-30-2013, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

That's one good reason to drop the CRT the electric costs alone.
300 watts imagion all those watts as dollars or £ going out the door.
That's why if I ever buy another computer for simple tasks to buy a tablet and perhaps by a solar panel to charge it instead of using the home electrical outlet.
So to with the LGPA75U I have it uses less watts than the old CRT HD TV I have.
My dream or plan ? is to have lower power consumption electronics so I can buy a deep cycle battery and use a solar panel.
Yes you could buy the 2500 Lumens 720p OPTOMA HD600XLV for £270 but ?
It's a bulb projector right ?
I know, if it dies in 3 or 5 years trow it in the trash, but think about all the electrical power it consumed, and ? not just the new bulb costs but if it's not covered under some protection plan then think about the color wheel costs.
Yes, some have said the cost of bulbs are coming down for the bulb projectors but they don't often think of all the other associated costs like the color wheel, and power consumption.
Yes, those bulbs in those bulb projectors use up a lot of watts not counting the other electronics in the projector that needs power.

Yep, power consumption's one reason to replace the CRT. It's about 3kWh every 10 hours, which is about 38p @12.64p/kWh, so about £11 every 30 days if I had it running for 10 hours/day (£138/yr), which I perhaps did until recently when I realised and switched to using the LCD monitor when I'm on my own and sometimes I don't even have that on but just my mini-amp and speakers for some background noise (it's not like I can see the screen whilst I'm on the PC anyway).

The 50" Panasonic is rated at around 130W, so that would reduce the running costs by about 1/3rd, whilst the bulb projector is rated around 233W. I'm not sure what a decently bright LED projector would run at.

Anyway, now I'm not having the CRT on so much, the cost savings would not be so much per year whatever I replaced it with, so that's less of a reason to replace it. Most days I might not have it on at all now, or maybe 2-3 hours in the evening for gaming, so if we say 1kWh/day=12.64p that's £46/year). If I replaced it with a Plasma and stopped using the LCD monitor, I might have it on 6hrs/day@130W=9.85p/day or £35/year). A bulb projector I'd be mindful of the life of the bulb so probably would only have that on 2-3 hours/day@233W=8.8p/day or £32/year but I'd need to buy another LCD monitor to use to avoid using the projector too much, so that would probably be about £80-100).

Anyway, that's a lot of numbers but it's still hard to calculate accurately what I might save using different devices. I hadn't even considered the cost of the color wheel (is that not an issue with LED projectors?). So I'm hoping that a decently bright LED projector becomes available for under £500 (preferably a lot less) quite soon but if that's very unlikely, I should probably consider getting a Plasma, even a 1024x768 one, whilst I can or I'll just have to accept that all I'll be able to afford is a 42-50" LCD, which at least will only use about 70W but it'll frustrate me having to spend a lot of money on what I know is an inferior technology and which I'm sure will annoy me somewhat as I'll notice it doesn't look as good as my CRT.
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post #8 of 15 Old 12-30-2013, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

Sorry for the double posts.


The LGPA75U I have LG says it's 700 lumens, but some reviews say it's about 1/3 less of that.
Still ? I can have a LED 12 watts lamp light that is simulated of a 40 watt regular light bulb in the back of the room and still can see the screen fine.
Now if we turn on the over head flurescent 4 tubes each at 40 watts the picture get's washed out.
So ? even if the have 1 or 2 LED light bulbs in 2 lamps at the back of the room would be fine.
Yes, it would effect the picture a little bit but the picture is still watchable.
Now figure the LGPF80G at their claimed 1000 lumens ?
Or we get something new introduced at CES next week ?
Maybe a 1200 Lumen ? or even a 1500 Lumen LED projector ? we shall see maybe.
Now those would be what those manufactures claim what the Lumens is.

Yeah, I just wonder if even 1500 Lumens will be sufficient, considering that bulb projectors pump out around 2500 Lumens.

My room's tricky as I have a window at one end (on my right), which I can get a black-out blind for but I obviously don't want to have that down all day, then in the corner at right-angles to the window (so behind me and to my right) there's a patio door with two glass panels, which again could be blacked out. Then there's a small window in the front (display) wall, left corner, which I could just board up completely and then to the left is my kitchen, which has a glass panel in the door and a larger glass panel next to that and as there's a window in the kitchen, that'll let in a fair bit of light unless I cover them up. There's also a door to my hall but there's no windows in that, so there only light that comes in there is through the front door, which currently has glass panels but is due to be replaced soon with a solid wooden door.

Obviously I'm going to get the best picture at night with all the outside light blocked out but I need something that's watchable during the daytime as well, without having to draw all the curtains and sit in the dark!
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post #9 of 15 Old 01-01-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the deal with these cheap LED projectors on ebay like this? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251382510659&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

How can they be selling 3000 Lumens LED projectors when the major manufacturer's don't even have 1500 models out yet?

Looking around at proper stores, it seems the only projectors that are as bright as bulb-based ones are LED/Laser hybrids which sell for around $1000, way out of my price range. This suggests to me that LED projectors are just not capable of getting much brighter than 1500 Lumens, which will be insufficient for daytime viewing, so it's probably pointless waiting for CES 2014 as I haven't seen any rumours of some magically bright LEDs, so I guess I'd better grab me one of those 1024x768 Panasonics in 42" or 50" whilst I still can.
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post #10 of 15 Old 01-01-2014, 10:42 AM
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Wow that's a lot of light leaking on during the daytime.
That projector on Ebay is a LCD LED projector, I don't like the LCD tech, I like DLP better.
It looks like it's one of those cheap chinses junk projectors but I could be wrong.
Yeah it looks like you might have to go with that Panasonic TV for the time being.
Unless you keep shopping around and find a better deal on a TV and perhaps afford a LED projector to watch at night.
Is there any other room in your house that you could make into a theator room with less windows ?
I was even thinking of dumping TVs and projectors all together and get the Oculus Rift when they come out with their newer HD DK2.
I know, googles on the face isn't to cool looking or comfortable but that would give you a decent device to play video games and the price range will be around $ 400 USD.
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-01-2014, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

Wow that's a lot of light leaking on during the daytime.
That projector on Ebay is a LCD LED projector, I don't like the LCD tech, I like DLP better.
It looks like it's one of those cheap chinses junk projectors but I could be wrong.
Yeah it looks like you might have to go with that Panasonic TV for the time being.
Unless you keep shopping around and find a better deal on a TV and perhaps afford a LED projector to watch at night.
Is there any other room in your house that you could make into a theator room with less windows ?
I was even thinking of dumping TVs and projectors all together and get the Oculus Rift when they come out with their newer HD DK2.
I know, googles on the face isn't to cool looking or comfortable but that would give you a decent device to play video games and the price range will be around $ 400 USD.

Yeah, the Rift might be cool eventually but at the moment apparently the resolution is quite low and they might need to go to 4k to make it look as good as a 1080p TV and that might not be until at least the end of 2014. Might give me nausea as well, so it's not something I'd buy without trying it for at least an hour first.

I don't have a lot of rooms in my flat but have occasionally thought about swapping the bedroom and living room, as the bedroom only has the one window at the end. It's probably too much hassle though and would be easier to black out the extra windows in the living room wink.gif

Ah yes, I don't know much about it yet but I think that DLP is better for colour reproduction or something. I'm sure you're right about the ebay projectors being cheap chinese junk, not being branded or anything it's impossible to read reviews or find out about any issues until it's too late, so I wouldn't risk it personally, I was just curious how they could provide such high Lumens.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-02-2014, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by doveman View Post

What's the deal with these cheap LED projectors on ebay like this? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251382510659&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

How can they be selling 3000 Lumens LED projectors when the major manufacturer's don't even have 1500 models out yet?

Looking around at proper stores, it seems the only projectors that are as bright as bulb-based ones are LED/Laser hybrids which sell for around $1000, way out of my price range. This suggests to me that LED projectors are just not capable of getting much brighter than 1500 Lumens, which will be insufficient for daytime viewing, so it's probably pointless waiting for CES 2014 as I haven't seen any rumours of some magically bright LEDs, so I guess I'd better grab me one of those 1024x768 Panasonics in 42" or 50" whilst I still can.

Those are cheap Chinese off-brand projectors. Their actual performance has absolutely no bearing with their rated specs. Their general performance is going to range from dismal to horrendous from the few screenshots I've seen of them.

They're also sold out of the back of white vans by unscrupulous characters, not by any reputable retailers.
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-02-2014, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Those are cheap Chinese off-brand projectors. Their actual performance has absolutely no bearing with their rated specs. Their general performance is going to range from dismal to horrendous from the few screenshots I've seen of them.

They're also sold out of the back of white vans by unscrupulous characters, not by any reputable retailers.

lol, makes sense. It seemed rather unbelievable that they'd found some way to make them so much brighter than the reputable brands.
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-02-2014, 11:05 PM
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That's what I was thinking too if you had another room in your flat to make into a man cave.
Swap the bed room with the living room so all you have to do is block the light from just that one window.
I guess having your bed room where you living room is would not be a problem unless you got some neighbours that are noisy at the front of your flat ?
Remember DLP never loses it's color and convergence problems.
I know some have said that they fixed the problems with LCD projector's fading colors mostly the blue but LCD has lag, jutter, and in action seens the motion get's blurred.
Also LCD has more screen door effect.
Love plasma for TVs.
I wonder if they can ever make OLEDS for projectors ?
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-03-2014, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, sounds like LCD projector's have a lot of issues, so I'll avoid those for sure.

My living room would probably make a quieter bedroom for me than the current bedrom as it doesn't have an adjoining flat next to it, which the bedroom does so I hear some noise through the walls. Below me the flat is the same layout, so if I made my bedroom the living room it might be a problem for the person below as well as the adjoining flat if they're trying to sleep though. Above me, the flat is a split-level with the first floor the living-room/kitchen/bathroom and the floor above the bedrooms, so it wouldn't make much difference to them. Another problem would be that if I swapped the rooms over, guests would have to go through the bedroom to get to the kitchen and it's obviously nicer to have the kitchen off the living room so you can check on cooking or make drinks and still talk to people in the living room. So I think all things considered, it's just easier to block the extra windows if necessary than swap rooms.

I think if there was likely to be a 1500 Lumens LED projector available soon for under £500 and that would give a great picture with the curtains drawn but not necessarily having to totally black out the room, just make it fairly dark, then I'd wait for that. It would be best if it would also be watchable, although obviously not great, for daytime viewing without having to close all the curtains but I could just keep using a small LCD monitor for that, although that would add an extra £80 to the setup cost. My concerns are that even if a 1500 Lumens projector does become available soon, it's likely to be nearer £1000 than £500 and that it may still be too dim to be used in other than a almost totally dark room, which can be a bit impractical when guests are round and have to be able to see their food and drinks to avoid knocking things over, keep moving around and getting up to get stuff from the kitchen, etc. I note what you said about "I can have a LED 12 watts lamp light that is simulated of a 40 watt regular light bulb in the back of the room" with your 700 Lumens rated LGPA75U, so it may be OK if I setup some lighting above the seating positions with a 1500 Lumens projector but probably still wouldn't be watchable with the curtains open during the daytime.

I probably could afford a LG Full HD Plasma but I've seen enough people warn me off LG I'm afraid, although just because their TVs have issues doesn't mean that their projectors do.

I'm going to take some screenshots of PC games at 1920x1080 and 1280x720 and check how they look in store on the 42" and 50" Panasonic plasmas with their 1024x768 resolution. The 50" will be about £120 more (including the 5-year warranty which is only 10%) so I want to check it will look OK from 7-8ft away, otherwise I'll probably get the 42", which will seem smaller than my 36" CRT as it will be 2-3ft further away towards the back wall but there's no point getting the 50" if I'm going to see the pixels from my seating position.
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