Sub 2000€ FullHD LED/Laser/Hybrid Projector - Which to pick? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-08-2014, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello, I am looking forward to buy my first projector.


As I do not want to spend money on lamps over the next few years, I am eying those lovely LED/Laser/Hybrid projectors with a minimum native resolution of 1920x1080.
Unfortunately, there aren't many sub-2000€ projectors out there yet. Actually, there are only 3 out right now (unless I missed something?):
ViewSonic Pro9000 for ~1500€
LG PF80G for ~1300€
Acer K750 for ~950€

 

To be released soon is a more portable version of the PF80G, the PF85U for roughly the same price and probably same picture quality.

 

Neither are truly fantastic or have an overwhelming advantage over the other, so I am not entirely sure what to get. That is where you come in:
I will merely use this for movies and TV series and the occasional video game. 3D is lowest priority (if any priority at all).
I do not need perfect color representation, however a more neutral/even, not too vibrant color range, would be favorable while still achieving good brightness.
My main concern however is noise and brightness while maintaining good contrast and black levels. While I intend to use it at a rather small screen (40-60"), I'd really like to have a great picture without too much fan noise.

 

Which of these 3 do you think will do it for me? Should I skip these entirely and just wait longer? Have there been other announcements of new sub-2k projectors for 2014 Q1/Q2?

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post #2 of 15 Old 02-14-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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So nobody has an opinion on either of these projectors? Please help me out, im entirely new to projectors and dont want to regret it...

 

nvm, just bought a barely used PRO9000 for 500€, thats 1/3 of the current factory new price :)

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post #3 of 15 Old 02-17-2014, 02:28 AM
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I'm in the same position, I have an Optoma HD80 which has a couple of intermittent faults and desperately needs yet another new bulb. At least they are loads cheaper than a year or two ago.

I would have already bought either a PF80 or the Viewsonic Pro9000 already if they had 3D capability or at least 720p120 ability. So I'm waiting to see if LG release an update to the PF80 with 3D like they did with their 720p LED projectors or trying to see an Optoma HD91 to decide if it's worth stretching to £2999.

I may well end up fixing the HD80 and trying to get another year out of it or buy a HD30 and look at LED again in a few years.

What do you think about the Viewsonic?

Are you in a position to try it with 720p120 or 1080p120? Need a decent home theatre pc or gaming pc, guide here:

http://www.blurbusters.com/overclock/120hz-pc-to-tv/

Thanks
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post #4 of 15 Old 02-17-2014, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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the maximum framerate the PRO9000 seems to be 85Hz, no dice with 720p and 120Hz. I'll try forcing that frequency once It arrives though. Ill post a few pics and a short review at that time as well

 

LG PF80G has an upgradeable firmware, so there is a chance of getting 120Hz sometime in the future, but for now i think its limited to 100Hz for that model, which could still work for 3D? dunno though, as I never used shutter glasses.

PF85U seems to be a smaller PF80G, so I doubt it has any new features or other advantages aside from size and weight!

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post #5 of 15 Old 02-17-2014, 11:04 AM
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Considering that most LED projectors cost more than their equivalent entry level traditional lamp based counterparts, and that the typical lamp-based units will run about 3 or more years on the first lamp (2 hours use a day/365 days a year) it just astounds me that people want to go with the lower brightness and typically weak optics and color from the current crop of LED projectors on the market.

I'm sure there will be improvements to the tech, but unless you are on 6+ hours a day, then I just don't get it.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
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post #6 of 15 Old 02-19-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post

the maximum framerate the PRO9000 seems to be 85Hz, no dice with 720p and 120Hz. I'll try forcing that frequency once It arrives though. Ill post a few pics and a short review at that time as well

LG PF80G has an upgradeable firmware, so there is a chance of getting 120Hz sometime in the future, but for now i think its limited to 100Hz for that model, which could still work for 3D? dunno though, as I never used shutter glasses.
PF85U seems to be a smaller PF80G, so I doubt it has any new features or other advantages aside from size and weight!


I heard that the 720p LED LG's can be forced to 120hz so I guess there's a hope with the PF80 or through a firmware update.

Thanks (in advance) for trying the Viewsonic, I'll probably end up buying a HD91 or wait another couple of years for an affordable LED projector!
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-19-2014, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post


I heard that the 720p LED LG's can be forced to 120hz so I guess there's a hope with the PF80 or through a firmware update.

Thanks (in advance) for trying the Viewsonic, I'll probably end up buying a HD91 or wait another couple of years for an affordable LED projector!


just played around with my recently arrived pro9000. I forced a higher framerate and got instead of the default 1080p60 another extra 11Hz -> 1080p71. Pretty good, but not good enough. Anything above that wont get displayed and some frequency settings will mess up the picture altogether... ill test some more, but i doubt I can get a full 120Hz out of it

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post #8 of 15 Old 02-19-2014, 07:59 PM
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Make sure to check if its skipping frames to achieve 71hz

http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping
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post #9 of 15 Old 02-19-2014, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bruce banner View Post

Make sure to check if its skipping frames to achieve 71hz

http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

will do once i get home

 

however im not happy at all yet: I get forced overscanning (1% gets cut off and the remaining picture interpolated to fill the screen...), a high pitched fan noise and a very noticeable rainbowing, despite the projector not featuring a colorwheel... WTF?!

 

I'll contact viewsonic today as well, to get their explanation, why my projector has all these issues and none of the reviews listed these behaviours, in fact, they listed "no rainbow effect" and that the overscanning issue got fixed in the retail models (pre-production units for reviews actually had such an issue, according to a single review).

 

I wonder if I got a subpar product...

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post #10 of 15 Old 02-21-2014, 10:11 AM
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however im not happy at all yet: I get forced overscanning (1% gets cut off and the remaining picture interpolated to fill the screen...), a high pitched fan noise and a very noticeable rainbowing, despite the projector not featuring a colorwheel... WTF?!

You don't need a color wheel to get RBE. If the projector uses a single DLP chip then only one color(red, green,blue) can be displayed at once.
It depends on how fast it is alternating between the red, green and blue LEDs/lasers.

I also thought that I won't see rainbows when I got the LG-PA70G.
Quote:
I'm sure there will be improvements to the tech, but unless you are on 6+ hours a day, then I just don't get it.
I average minimum 7 hours a day. More on weekends.
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonZA View Post


You don't need a color wheel to get RBE. If the projector uses a single DLP chip then only one color(red, green,blue) can be displayed at once.
It depends on how fast it is alternating between the red, green and blue LEDs/lasers.

I also thought that I won't see rainbows when I got the LG-PA70G.

Is there a way to counter or lower these effects?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce banner View Post

Make sure to check if its skipping frames to achieve 71hz

http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping


Unfortunately, it doesnt pass this test and skips roughly every 6th or 7th frame.

Here is a ~10secs high framerate video (1000fps) slowed down to 60fps (2mins 55secs):

http://storage.superconnected.org/random/pro9000-70hz-test.mkv

 

RAINBOW TIME!

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post #12 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 06:25 AM
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Is there a way to counter or lower these effects?
The only thing that helped for my LG PA70G was to put the refresh rate at the highest setting of 120Hz.
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LeonZA View Post


The only thing that helped for my LG PA70G was to put the refresh rate at the highest setting of 120Hz.


and that unfortunately doesn't work with the PRO9000.

 

I contacted tech support about the issues I've listed. If the cropping+interpolation/overscanning is unfixable, then this projector is out of the question and will be shipped back to where it came from.

Of all the reviews I've read, none list the rainbow effect becoming visible. In fact, most praise its absence. How can that be? Am I that sensitive that others dont notice? I somewhat doubt that, as its very apparent...

Last but not least is the noise is anything but 22db/28db. In fact, I can't even hear any difference between eco and normal mode...

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post #14 of 15 Old 02-24-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post


just played around with my recently arrived pro9000. I forced a higher framerate and got instead of the default 1080p60 another extra 11Hz -> 1080p71. Pretty good, but not good enough. Anything above that wont get displayed and some frequency settings will mess up the picture altogether... ill test some more, but i doubt I can get a full 120Hz out of it

Thanks for trying this, much appreciated.

I saw the Optoma HD91 yesterday, probably would have bought one if they had been able to tell me a reasonable delivery date or even an estimate with fewer um, er, maybes.

Sadly the LG PF80 wasn't at the show, I'd buy one if I wasn't worried about the lens quality and potential noisyness, lack of zoom doesn't bother me.
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post #15 of 15 Old 02-24-2014, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Holy ****... whatevers wrong with my projector is entirely the firmwares fault:

The PRO9000 has two brightness modes: ECO on and off.

According to reviews, the audible noise changes with each setting, along with its brightness.

 

Well, guess what: My model doesn't quite work that way.

 

I have to use the predefined Color Modes Theater, Game or Dark Room*, for the ECO mode to have any effect on the fans' speed.

The other modes, including the user modes that offer to calibrate the color, sharpness, etc, the fans run at full speed (not minding the high altitude setting).

 

I believe i got a highly unstable, buggy and alpha/demo firmware or whatever running on my projector with ****** fans (produce a high pitched sound along with white noise) to cool it all down.

 

Horrible, just horrible. Still awaiting ViewSonics tech reply on this mess. I want to keep it, if they can fix all these FW related issues and replace the fans with good ones. If not, this thing is trash :(

 

Oh yeah, heres a pic of the 1:1 pixel mapping/overscanning/interpolation issue: http://storage.superconnected.org/img/testshot-pro9000.jpg

I used this picture for testing: http://storage.superconnected.org/img/testpicture.png

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