SONY VPL-HW40ES : New SONY SXRD 1080P home theater projector - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1185 Old 08-03-2014, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC View Post
This is just my second projector and I was a little worried about the no iris thing but the fact of the matter is, this projector at the price it is available for is an incredible value. I don't know if others feel the same way as I but I think it throws a spectacular image. The price is such that If one decides to upgrade in the next couple of years or so, when the next big thing becomes affordable , he wont be out huge dollars. He can replace it with the next great value device that comes along. Its a lot more reasonable to live in the 90% world than the 100% one, and it doesn't break the bank or trigger buyers remorse.
Just a thought, for what its worth,
For someone who is a beginner and is just starting out in the HT/PJ arena... this is a great buy. Granted there are better products out there for more but the point Sony is trying to make is that this tech is AFFORDABLE and ANYONE can upgrade their home with a Home Theater.
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post #722 of 1185 Old 08-03-2014, 05:40 AM
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Can any one recommend a ND filter ? I'd like the options of less brightness but better blacks.
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post #723 of 1185 Old 08-03-2014, 09:15 AM
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I'm new to projectors as this is my first one but I am totally blown away by the picture! One ques, what am I looking for when doing the Panel Alignment? I know how to get to the screen to adjust it but I have no idea what it should look like,thanks for any help.
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post #724 of 1185 Old 08-03-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by skypop View Post
I'm new to projectors as this is my first one but I am totally blown away by the picture! One ques, what am I looking for when doing the Panel Alignment? I know how to get to the screen to adjust it but I have no idea what it should look like,thanks for any help.
You want to converge/overlay Red and Blue over Green.
So that in your Cross and Hatch pattern,
all the lines look white and you don't see any blue or red fringing out of the white lines.

Something to keep in mind when doing convergence.
Beware that if you wear glasses.
Your glasses may introduce chromatic aberrations that may cause you to see blue and red fringing even though the pj is properly converged.

Not sure but I think Contacts don't have this problem.
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post #725 of 1185 Old 08-03-2014, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bachiano View Post
You want to converge/overlay Red and Blue over Green.
So that in your Cross and Hatch pattern,
all the lines look white and you don't see any blue or red fringing out of the white lines.

Something to keep in mind when doing convergence.
Beware that if you wear glasses.
Your glasses may introduce chromatic aberrations that may cause you to see blue and red fringing even though the pj is properly converged.

Not sure but I think Contacts don't have this problem.
Oh ok thanks, all the lines are white so I guess i'm ok than.
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post #726 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC View Post
This is just my second projector and I was a little worried about the no iris thing but the fact of the matter is, this projector at the price it is available for is an incredible value.
...
The lack of an automatic iris is actually one of the reasons I chose this projector. I personally consider no automatic iris as a positive. On my previous projector (Mitsubishi HC4900) I had the iris turned off, because if I notice during viewing it pulls me out of the movie.
A manual iris, on the other hand, I consider a feature, but the same thing can be accomplished with an ND filter.
Overall I love this projector. The color accuracy is especially nice, as is the brightness, as well as the lack of screen door. The low latency is a feature too, both for audio sync and gaming.
Personally I think this is an obvious front runner for best $2000 projector.
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post #727 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Syllogistic View Post
I wonder if anyone has been able to compare the contrast performance between the 40ES and the older 30ES. I know the 40ES probably has a higher native contrast (similar to the 55ES) but I wonder whether the dynamic iris on the 30ES might compensate for that in practice.

I can currently get the 30ES on runout for about 2/3 of the price of the 40ES and half the price of the 55ES and am wondering if the newer models are really worth the extra. This would be my first projector coming from a defective F8500 plasma so I don't really know what to expect in terms of black performance. I'm happy with the performance of the F8500 if that helps.
The biggest benefit IMO to the 40/55ES models is the addition of Reality Creation which makes for a notable sharper picture vs. the 30ES. I would consider spending a little more to get a unit with RC and consider the better black levels a bonus. Best of luck with whatever you choose, they are all great projectors.
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post #728 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 02:53 PM
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All - pulled the trigger and ordered one of these HW40ES projectors from AVScience. Its installed in my multipurpose room (play room, ironing room, guest room, exercise room for my 17 yr old, and finally my home theater room). I have a 110" Firehawk screen and the projector is about 14' back, ceiling mounted. LOVE how quiet this PJ is! And it really has good brightness even on low bulb setting. Good black levels (but they could always be better!). But I have a couple of issues I need to run by those with this PJ to see if I have a defective one (or, it could just be me :-) ).
- Detail issues: at first anything but BluRay disc just had a lot of noise and loss of detail. Looked a lot like mosquito noise. Looking at the NetFlix home page and all the movie/TV show thumbnails just looked like VHS crap! Source is Sony BD-S590 Bluray player/media server going thru a Denon receiver and HDMI to the HW40ES (Note - this is replacing an older JVC RS10 with exact same setup/configuration). I found that disabling Reality Creation made a significant improvement.. This is contrary to a few of you who say RC actually improves the detail.
- Biggest issue: Color Banding!! When fed any streaming video like Netflix or Vudu, I get color banding that looks like the old plasma 1st gen TVs that only had 6 or 7-bit color processing!? I don't recall seeing it on the couple of blurays I've watched, but I did not have this banding issue with the older JVC RS10.

So maybe I'm just missing some setting?? Here's what I'm using/done:
- Mode = Reference
- Reality Creation = off
- Motion flow = off
- RCP = off
- Gamma = 2.4
- Sharpness = min
- NR and MPEG NR = off
- Film Mode = Auto 2
- Contrast Enhancer = off
- Color Space = BR.709
- x.y.Colour = off
- Panel Alignment - needed to adjust both Red (up) and Blue (to the left)

So there you have it - what have I missed? If nothing, did I get a lemon and need to send to Sony for repair??

Thanks in advance,
dagger
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post #729 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by daggerNC View Post
All - pulled the trigger and ordered one of these HW40ES projectors from AVScience. Its installed in my multipurpose room (play room, ironing room, guest room, exercise room for my 17 yr old, and finally my home theater room). I have a 110" Firehawk screen and the projector is about 14' back, ceiling mounted. LOVE how quiet this PJ is! And it really has good brightness even on low bulb setting. Good black levels (but they could always be better!). But I have a couple of issues I need to run by those with this PJ to see if I have a defective one (or, it could just be me :-) ).
- Detail issues: at first anything but BluRay disc just had a lot of noise and loss of detail. Looked a lot like mosquito noise. Looking at the NetFlix home page and all the movie/TV show thumbnails just looked like VHS crap! Source is Sony BD-S590 Bluray player/media server going thru a Denon receiver and HDMI to the HW40ES (Note - this is replacing an older JVC RS10 with exact same setup/configuration). I found that disabling Reality Creation made a significant improvement.. This is contrary to a few of you who say RC actually improves the detail.
- Biggest issue: Color Banding!! When fed any streaming video like Netflix or Vudu, I get color banding that looks like the old plasma 1st gen TVs that only had 6 or 7-bit color processing!? I don't recall seeing it on the couple of blurays I've watched, but I did not have this banding issue with the older JVC RS10.

So maybe I'm just missing some setting?? Here's what I'm using/done:
- Mode = Reference
- Reality Creation = off
- Motion flow = off
- RCP = off
- Gamma = 2.4
- Sharpness = min
- NR and MPEG NR = off
- Film Mode = Auto 2
- Contrast Enhancer = off
- Color Space = BR.709
- x.y.Colour = off
- Panel Alignment - needed to adjust both Red (up) and Blue (to the left)

So there you have it - what have I missed? If nothing, did I get a lemon and need to send to Sony for repair??

Thanks in advance,
dagger
You know, I must say I almost feel the same way. I've heard nothing but how great and sharp this projector is. I see exactly what you mention about the detail issues and RC may sharpen it a bit, but even on a low setting it introduces a grain that bothers me. I watched the hall of fame game last night and was not impressed at all - like you said it almost seemed like VHS. I watched Noah over the weekend which is one of the better Blu-rays and while ok, I still wasn't overly impressed. The color does seem quite good, but I've gone through extensive tweaking and am still disappointed by dark scenes too.

For reference, mine is about 12' away and currently displaying at 106" with a seating position of 11' - 12'. The room is completely light controlled when I'm critically viewing.

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post #730 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 04:29 PM
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Is it possible for you guys post some pics of what you are seeing ?
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post #731 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bachiano View Post
Is it possible for you guys post some pics of what you are seeing ?
I'll see what I can do, although I'm not sure I have a camera in the house that can capture it.

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post #732 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 07:43 PM
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I'll see what I can do, although I'm not sure I have a camera in the house that can capture it.
Same here - I'll try but not sure how well my camera can capture.
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post #733 of 1185 Old 08-04-2014, 08:06 PM
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Here are a couple pictures. Take these with a grain of salt given they are with my phone camera, but you get the idea. I took these from about 5 feet away but that's about how it looks from my MPL too, except maybe a bit noisier.

The thing that gets me is if you look at say the NFL pictures for this projector on the projectorreviews.com review they look amazingly clear and sharp. These pictures were from NBC, which typically has the best NFL HD coverage. Even if stand back 20 feet they don't look that good.
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Last edited by tcramer; 08-04-2014 at 08:09 PM.
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post #734 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 06:48 AM
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I can’t tell much from those pics.

They don’t look very good but maybe it is the camera phone.

The pics do look like there is too much brightness and some smearing.
Maybe there is some white clipping going on?

Things to try:

1 - On the BD player set all video settings to default.
2 - On receiver, if there is any video processing, turn it off.
If that does not improve the image:
3 - connect BD player directly to the PJ.

There are so many things that can affect an image - finding out the culprit, is a process of elimination.
Hopefully it is not the PJ.

Hope that helps.
Let us know what you find out.

For fun try these settings from: ‎http://www.chromapure.co.uk/files/VP...est%20(V2).pdf and see if they improve things:

Picture mode: Reference

Reality Creation – Personal preference
Lamp power – Low

Motionflow – Personal preference
Contrast – 80
Brightness – 53
Color – 50

Hue – 50

Colour temp – Custom 5 - D65 - see gain and bias below.
Sharpness – Min

NR – Off

MPEG NR – Off

Film mode – Auto 1
Contrast enhancer – Off
Gamma Correction – 2.4
XV Color – Off
Color space – BT.709

Colour Temp (custom 5):
Gains: R29, G-30, B-26
Bias: R-5, G0, B-2

Last edited by Bachiano; 08-05-2014 at 06:52 AM.
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post #735 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 07:02 AM
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I didn't notice it myself when I demoed HW40 but I've seen a lot of grain/noise on some screenshots. Even if the football shots on projectorreviews.com looks good, have a look at the Star Trek shot and there is A LOT of grain/noise. Sure the movie itself probably contains movie-grain but it seems HW40 often makes it worse (probably with RC on).
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post #736 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TMA1 View Post
I didn't notice it myself when I demoed HW40 but I've seen a lot of grain/noise on some screenshots. Even if the football shots on projectorreviews.com looks good, have a look at the Star Trek shot and there is A LOT of grain/noise. Sure the movie itself probably contains movie-grain but it seems HW40 often makes it worse (probably with RC on).
Lets separate Grain from Digital noise.
They are not the same thing although they are both a type of distortion.

I still prefer grain. In fact, I love the "natural" grainy look of film.
What I don’t like is when video processing exaggerates it making it look digital.

As for RC: User preference here: RC works well with some content and not with others.

Too high a sharpness setting can also be a problem with exaggerating grain and is probably the # one culprit for most displays.

Film grain is the random texture on film due to small metallic silver grains after exposure.
Digital noise is the speckling of incorrectly-tinted pixels throughout an image.
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post #737 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachiano View Post
Lets separate Grain from Digital noise.
They are not the same thing although they are both a type of distortion.

I still prefer grain. In fact, I love the "natural" grainy look of film.
What I don’t like is when video processing exaggerates it making it look digital.

As for RC: User preference here: RC works well with some content and not with others.

Too high a sharpness setting can also be a problem with exaggerating grain and is probably the # one culprit for most displays.

Film grain is the random texture on film due to small metallic silver grains after exposure.
Digital noise is the speckling of incorrectly-tinted pixels throughout an image.
Yes, I know there is a natural grain from film and I also like it when it comes in natural amounts. I belive though that in some screnshots Ive seen it looks like it has been enhanced by the Hw40, like in the Star Trek shot I mentioned. What do you think?
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post #738 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bachiano View Post
I can’t tell much from those pics.

They don’t look very good but maybe it is the camera phone.

The pics do look like there is too much brightness and some smearing.
Maybe there is some white clipping going on?

Things to try:

1 - On the BD player set all video settings to default.
2 - On receiver, if there is any video processing, turn it off.
If that does not improve the image:
3 - connect BD player directly to the PJ.

There are so many things that can affect an image - finding out the culprit, is a process of elimination.
Hopefully it is not the PJ.

Hope that helps.
Let us know what you find out.

For fun try these settings from: ‎http://www.chromapure.co.uk/files/VP...est%20(V2).pdf and see if they improve things:

Picture mode: Reference

Reality Creation – Personal preference
Lamp power – Low

Motionflow – Personal preference
Contrast – 80
Brightness – 53
Color – 50

Hue – 50

Colour temp – Custom 5 - D65 - see gain and bias below.
Sharpness – Min

NR – Off

MPEG NR – Off

Film mode – Auto 1
Contrast enhancer – Off
Gamma Correction – 2.4
XV Color – Off
Color space – BT.709

Colour Temp (custom 5):
Gains: R29, G-30, B-26
Bias: R-5, G0, B-2
I will give those settings a try but at quick glance, they look pretty close to how I have Reference now, minus the custom grayscale. I'd been going between D55 and D65 for that, depending on the material. I always turn the NR off and do not add any sharpness (why they still even have that setting is beyond me).

I had tweaked the settings using patterns for brightness, contrast and color. I think any smearing or clipping you see is due to the camera. That is one area I am good with. The images do represent the softness I see well though.

As for your other suggestions, my video settings are at default and I always turn off any extra processing in the chain. I have tried the Tivo and PS3 directly to the projector and it looks identical, so the receiver is not the cause. I thought source, but that same football game I took pictures from on my Tivo I did on my 65VT50 and it looks so much better on there, much more crisp.

I don't know, maybe I was just expecting too much for my first projector. If I decide not to keep it, I have until the weekend to return it. Maybe I should just do that and wait and see what the fall has to offer from Epson and maybe JVC.


Last edited by tcramer; 08-05-2014 at 09:47 AM.
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post #739 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 10:00 AM
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TMA1

It’s really hard to tell what is happening in the first page as the pics don’t have enough resolution.

However in the Sharpness and Image noise section with the secretary doing her nails.

The comparisons clearly show that the best image is with RC off,
and even a small amount of RC does not do her / the image any good.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/sony...performance-2/
The reviewer points out this noise problem with even a small amount of RC on.
He also stated all pics in review are set to 20 RC except for the one RC off with the secretary.
Sony should have given us a finer scale RC adjustment.

That being said, room conditions and sitting distances have a big influence on IQ perception.

So every ones mmv.

Last edited by Bachiano; 08-05-2014 at 10:15 AM.
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post #740 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 10:08 AM
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tcramer

That softness does not look like anything I saw when I demoed the PJ.
The one I saw was super sharp even with CR off.
You might be right and have a defective unit.

What a PITA.
Sorry
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post #741 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 10:50 AM
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TCRAMER
Without going through all your posts, you aren't suffering from any anomalies that might happen from having the zoom or lens shift at the very edge of it's spec, are you? (Maybe not banding, but chalky look, softness, light at edges, etc...)
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post #742 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 11:50 AM
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Without going through all your posts, you aren't suffering from any anomalies that might happen from having the zoom or lens shift at the very edge of it's spec, are you? (Maybe not banding, but chalky look, softness, light at edges, etc...)
That's a good thought, but I don't think so. I'm currently projecting at 106" from about 12', which is just below the midpoint distance in the projectorcentral.com calculator.

My lens shift is not at the edge either. The horizontal shift is neutral and the vertical shift still has over a foot of downward range to spare.

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post #743 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bachiano View Post
tcramer

That softness does not look like anything I saw when I demoed the PJ.
The one I saw was super sharp even with CR off.
You might be right and have a defective unit.

What a PITA.
Sorry
I'd be curious to hear more from daggerNC.

As I mentioned, I have through the weekend to return it. It's starting to look like that may be the best option.

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post #744 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
I'd be curious to hear more from daggerNC.

As I mentioned, I have through the weekend to return it. It's starting to look like that may be the best option.
Sorry about the trouble. It sounds like I'm not getting my projector until about the time you need to send yours back so I can only make guesses on your issues.

EDIT ADD-ON:

OK, that was weird. A co-worker just dropped by and said it's sitting in my office. I hadn't even received a tracking number yet. LOL. (Projector People was having it drop shipped directly from Sony, so Sony was supposed to provide them the shipping info. Looks like the delivery man was faster than the bureaucracy. ^_^)

Fingers crossed I have a good unit. :-)

Last edited by chirpie; 08-05-2014 at 01:16 PM.
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post #745 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 01:47 PM
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chirpie

I also have not gotten my unit yet.
Please give us a review when you get it all set up to your satisfaction.

Thanks
Bachiano
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post #746 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chirpie View Post
Sorry about the trouble. It sounds like I'm not getting my projector until about the time you need to send yours back so I can only make guesses on your issues.

EDIT ADD-ON:

OK, that was weird. A co-worker just dropped by and said it's sitting in my office. I hadn't even received a tracking number yet. LOL. (Projector People was having it drop shipped directly from Sony, so Sony was supposed to provide them the shipping info. Looks like the delivery man was faster than the bureaucracy. ^_^)

Fingers crossed I have a good unit. :-)

No excuses now - get that thing mounted and a review out here right away!

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post #747 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 03:55 PM
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I keep seeing this projector being referred to as a "$2000" projector but I only see it advertised as $2499.


Also, has anyone compared this projector to the Sony ES50 or the ES55? Thanks.
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post #748 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 04:22 PM
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I'm moving to a new place, the projector is 12 ft 10 inches away from a 100 inch screen now and looks great, the pj will be 15 ft away now, do I have to get a bigger screen or can I still use the 100 inch?
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post #749 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinlg View Post
I'm moving to a new place, the projector is 12 ft 10 inches away from a 100 inch screen now and looks great, the pj will be 15 ft away now, do I have to get a bigger screen or can I still use the 100 inch?
The ProjectorCentral Calculator indicates you should be OK with 100" from 15ft (with a potential minimum screen-size of around 96" from that distance - giving you a 4" buffer.)

BenQ W1070 Projector; Xtreamer Ultra 2 (running XBMC on OpenELEC) via Sony STR-DH540 AVR with Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS SE 5.1 Audio. MediaBrowser3 for Mobile Streaming.

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post #750 of 1185 Old 08-05-2014, 04:55 PM
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The ProjectorCentral Calculator indicates you should be OK with 100" from 15ft (with a potential minimum screen-size of around 96" from that distance - giving you a 4" buffer.)
Maybe I'll use it as an excuse to up it to a 120 inch screen hahah

Thanks for the info
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