SONY VPL-HW40ES : New SONY SXRD 1080P home theater projector - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 918 Old 05-13-2014, 06:55 PM
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I've been pondering between the Epson 5030 and the Panasonic 8000.  But now I'm planning to get one of these instead.  (I also pondered the new JVC, but it's not bright enough and doesn't have any analog inputs.  Which won't work for me.)

 

The lack of dynamic iris isn't an issue for me, because I'd turn it off anyway.  On my current projector as well as my my TV I have the dynamic contrast turned off, because it ruins the immersion for me.  I notice it visually, and then start thinking about the display instead of the movie.

 

My main concern for this is whether it's bright enough for my living room.  I have a "cave" in my basement where I used to have a screen set up, but found that I wasn't using it much anymore.  I also didn't want my TV as the focus of my living room upstairs.  I want an "invisible when off" vibe.  So I moved the TV down to the cave, and had a wall upstairs painted a super smooth white (ProClassic Extra White as recommended on Projector Central).  My projector is now upstairs.  I find I'm using it more now, and I like the decor better this way.

 

Geoffrey, can you post your calibration settings that you used for this projector?  It seems that you got almost perfect calibration even though you said the CMS is "wonky".

 

Also, can you expand on your feelings of whether this is a good living room projector, as in moderate ambient light before 9 PM?

 

Thanks,

 

Harley.

 

P.S. I swear I used to have an account here, but it seems to have vanished.  This upgrade will be my 6th projector since 1996.

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post #92 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post

I've been pondering between the Epson 5030 and the Panasonic 8000.  But now I'm planning to get one of these instead.  (I also pondered the new JVC, but it's not bright enough and doesn't have any analog inputs.  Which won't work for me.)
The JVC really is more of a home theater model for a solid room, so I agree it's probably not the right choice for your room.

But, a correction is that the RS46 has analog inputs. It has a DB15 connection for a PC source as well as an analog component video input on the back of it. I'm expecting that the VGA input can possibly be set to composite, s-video, component video, or VGA as necessary. But, it certainly has analog inputs. You made me double check though! smile.gif
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My main concern for this is whether it's bright enough for my living room.
What projector are you using now? Considering that the review indicated the Sony to be the same brightness as the 5030, I would expect this to be a solidly bright model for a 100" or so screen in a room with some ambient light in it. It remains the case the controlling light is the best thing you can do for front projection, but if you are currently using a projection setup, then this model certainly seems a no-brainer compared to the Epson or Panny models.

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post #93 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 07:41 AM
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...what about lens quality? Everyone talk about contrast ratio etc.., but what about lenses used in benq w 7500, hw40es or x35 in comparision?
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post #94 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 11:33 AM
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The JVC really is more of a home theater model for a solid room, so I agree it's probably not the right choice for your room.

But, a correction is that the RS46 has analog inputs. It has a DB15 connection for a PC source as well as an analog component video input on the back of it. I'm expecting that the VGA input can possibly be set to composite, s-video, component video, or VGA as necessary. But, it certainly has analog inputs. You made me double check though! smile.gif
What projector are you using now? Considering that the review indicated the Sony to be the same brightness as the 5030, I would expect this to be a solidly bright model for a 100" or so screen in a room with some ambient light in it. It remains the case the controlling light is the best thing you can do for front projection, but if you are currently using a projection setup, then this model certainly seems a no-brainer compared to the Epson or Panny models.

My current projector is a Mitsubishi HC4900 (which I partially chose for low fan noise).  It works OK in the evening, but is completely washed out during the day.  I have fairly dark front curtains in the living room, but the kitchen across the house is open.  So the light is indirect but is definitely brighter during the day.

 

The LCOS, Sony electronics, and low fan noise do make this an appealing choice, as long as it's bright enough.

 

Thanks.

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post #95 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post

I've been pondering between the Epson 5030 and the Panasonic 8000.  But now I'm planning to get one of these instead.  (I also pondered the new JVC, but it's not bright enough and doesn't have any analog inputs.  Which won't work for me.)

The lack of dynamic iris isn't an issue for me, because I'd turn it off anyway.  On my current projector as well as my my TV I have the dynamic contrast turned off, because it ruins the immersion for me.  I notice it visually, and then start thinking about the display instead of the movie.

My main concern for this is whether it's bright enough for my living room.  I have a "cave" in my basement where I used to have a screen set up, but found that I wasn't using it much anymore.  I also didn't want my TV as the focus of my living room upstairs.  I want an "invisible when off" vibe.  So I moved the TV down to the cave, and had a wall upstairs painted a super smooth white (ProClassic Extra White as recommended on Projector Central).  My projector is now upstairs.  I find I'm using it more now, and I like the decor better this way.

Geoffrey, can you post your calibration settings that you used for this projector?  It seems that you got almost perfect calibration even though you said the CMS is "wonky".

Also, can you expand on your feelings of whether this is a good living room projector, as in moderate ambient light before 9 PM?

Thanks,

Harley.

P.S. I swear I used to have an account here, but it seems to have vanished.  This upgrade will be my 6th projector since 1996.

I got 39 fL from the VPL-HW40ES on my 102-inch 1.0 gain screen. That's pretty bright, and I've only measured a few that were brighter (last year's Epson 5020 was one). There are some DLP PJs that are brighter as well, but have a much lower contrast ratio. Or to put it better, if you don't have reasonable light control in your room, no projector is going to work.

I don't post calibration settings as I feel they do more harm than good. Your projector and screen are going to be different from mine, and there's enough variation there to make it impossible to say if my settings will be better or worse than the stock settings on your projector.
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post #96 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post

My current projector is a Mitsubishi HC4900 (which I partially chose for low fan noise).  It works OK in the evening, but is completely washed out during the day.  I have fairly dark front curtains in the living room, but the kitchen across the house is open.  So the light is indirect but is definitely brighter during the day.

The LCOS, Sony electronics, and low fan noise do make this an appealing choice, as long as it's bright enough.

Thanks.

I haven't measured that Mits, but Al did at S&V. It seems he got 10 fL from the low lamp mode, but didn't mention what the high lamp mode was. I doubt it was over 15. So the Sony is more than twice that.

But again, I didn't measure it, it's on a different screen, and he didn't list high lamp setting.
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post #97 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 12:29 PM
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I haven't measured that Mits, but Al did at S&V. It seems he got 10 fL from the low lamp mode, but didn't mention what the high lamp mode was. I doubt it was over 15. So the Sony is more than twice that.

But again, I didn't measure it, it's on a different screen, and he didn't list high lamp setting.


That's really good info.  If I'm optimistically getting 15 now and get 39 from the Sony, it should work great for my application.

 

My screen is around 1.1 gain, and less than 100", maybe 95 or so.  It's paint, so it's not exactly on an inch.

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post #98 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 01:38 PM
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That's really good info.  If I'm optimistically getting 15 now and get 39 from the Sony, it should work great for my application.

My screen is around 1.1 gain, and less than 100", maybe 95 or so.  It's paint, so it's not exactly on an inch.

If your screen is 1.1, and if it's 95-inches, and if the Sony you get has the same light output as mine, that could be 50 fL, which is as bright as many plasmas.

Keep in mind though, any room light is going to wash that out. You're still going to lose the dark parts of the image to ambient light.
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post #99 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 02:51 PM
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The blackness of the JVC X35 is a waste in a bright room, right? I might as well go for the brighter HW40ES, right?
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post #100 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 02:53 PM
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That's really good info.  If I'm optimistically getting 15 now and get 39 from the Sony, it should work great for my application.

My screen is around 1.1 gain, and less than 100", maybe 95 or so.  It's paint, so it's not exactly on an inch.
Your room sounds ideal for a light rejecting screen.

I'm not in love with the black screens, but if you do get the Sony, and you aren't happy with it, then a black screen may be ideal for you and worth looking into.

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post #101 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 02:53 PM
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The blackness of the JVC X35 is a waste in a bright room, right? I might as well go for the brighter HW40ES, right?
Yes, that's completely correct. Even the Sony may be a waste, and you may be happier with the BenQ W1070 which is less than half the price and looks very good.

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post #102 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 03:16 PM
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if anyone is interested, i just posted my vpl40es in the classifieds section  :) 

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post #103 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 03:53 PM
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Yes, that's completely correct. Even the Sony may be a waste, and you may be happier with the BenQ W1070 which is less than half the price and looks very good.

Good point. It's also about 10% brighter (though half the CR)
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post #104 of 918 Old 05-14-2014, 07:06 PM
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By the numbers Geoffrey - It looks like you were getting about 1205 lumens out of the projector on your 102" screen and were happy with the results.

With my 161" Draper screen with 1.3 gain, that would equate out to about 20 lumen sq/ft of screen, which should be excellent on the large format screen correct?

This is really exciting for me as I really want to go LCoS but the RS46 just isn't ideal for my 77 square foot screen size. The rest I expect to hold true with Sony as being an excellent all around projector.

Still would love your opinion on whether or not the Epson 5030 even makes sense for almost anyone anymore considering the price. (sorry if I missed it in another reply)

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post #105 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 02:02 AM
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How would this Sony HW40 stacks up against Benq 1070 apart from obvious excessive noise., heat and rainbow effect?

Is Sony has a better picture quality: contrast/colors?

As for now Benq 1070 sells for $750
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post #106 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 06:35 AM
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I am going to go with a 2.35:1 133" diagonal screen in a dedicated light controlled room. Projector to screen distance will be about 15 feet and my seating to screen distance would be the same. I am only interested in 2D. I will be going with either Black Diamond (which may be overkill) or a Carada Brilliant White screen. Most viewing will be Blu Ray movies at night with occasional HDTV viewing. I also plan on using a Lumagen Radiance Mini for aspect ratio control. With those factors in mind, am I correct in thinking that my best bet would be the JVC X35 over either the 55ES or 40ES? For reference, I had a JVC HD950 paired with a 144" 2.35 BD in my old theater which was also a dedicated space and it was a stunning combo.

Thanks
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post #107 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 06:58 AM
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This probably isn't the perfect thread for this question but here goes.

I've got a 13 x 11.5 room that I'm finishing. Its a dedicated and light controlled room. I'm still learning about setting up projectors and this will be my first one. This projector sounds perfect for my needs. Thank you Geoffrey Morrison for your review.

I'm a little confused about the brightness though. I'll be using a 84 inch screen from about a 11+ft throw distance. It sounds like that will be extremely bright. Can't you just turn down the brightness and retain the picture quality from something compared to a 100+ inch screen? Or purchase a screen with a low gain to compensate?
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post #108 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by EugF View Post

How would this Sony HW40 stacks up against Benq 1070 apart from obvious excessive noise., heat and rainbow effect?
The W1070 is about 10% brighter (according to Geoffrey), but would have worst contrast. Similar color saturation, and the W1070 is has RBE potential. The Sony will have much better black levels (much better!), and because it is a 3-chip system, it can't have RBE issues for anyone. LCoS, LCD, and 3-chip DLP don't have RBE issues for anyone. It is the spinning color wheel of a single-chip DLP projector which causes RBE issues.
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Is Sony has a better picture quality: contrast/colors?
I'm not betting on the colors, but black levels and contrast will be significantly better on the Sony.
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As for now Benq 1070 sells for $750
Yes, the W1070 is still about the best value in a projector, ever. Great image for the money. But, if you have a need for the zoom range, lens shift, want better contrast and black levels, and a quieter projector and especially if you have a better home theater space, then the Sony is a better choice. If you have a really good theater, then the JVC may still be a better choice than the Sony.

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post #109 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by drjay71 View Post

I am going to go with a 2.35:1 133" diagonal screen in a dedicated light controlled room. Projector to screen distance will be about 15 feet and my seating to screen distance would be the same. I am only interested in 2D. I will be going with either Black Diamond (which may be overkill) or a Carada Brilliant White screen. Most viewing will be Blu Ray movies at night with occasional HDTV viewing. I also plan on using a Lumagen Radiance Mini for aspect ratio control. With those factors in mind, am I correct in thinking that my best bet would be the JVC X35 over either the 55ES or 40ES? For reference, I had a JVC HD950 paired with a 144" 2.35 BD in my old theater which was also a dedicated space and it was a stunning combo.

Thanks
In a good theater, the JVC has the best 2D image delivery of pretty much anyone. It's not as bright, so if you aren't using an anamorphic lens, that screen size is very large for a JVC to contend with.

The Black Diamond screens suck. They are terrible. Completely horrendous... For home theater. They are designed for board rooms, not home theaters, and they devastate the projected image. Do not ever buy or consider them unless you plan to put a projector into your family room, then pair it with a bright projector, and accept the sparkling effect that you will see from the projected image. What they do is amazing in a terrible room, but it's a large nasty band-aid that leaves a terrible scar on the image. This is acceptable when the room is nasty, but beyond worthless in a good, or even halfway decent, home theater/rec room space.

I'm thinking at the screen size you are at, the Sony may be a better choice.

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post #110 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ramzy View Post

This probably isn't the perfect thread for this question but here goes.

I've got a 13 x 11.5 room that I'm finishing. Its a dedicated and light controlled room. I'm still learning about setting up projectors and this will be my first one. This projector sounds perfect for my needs. Thank you Geoffrey Morrison for your review.

I'm a little confused about the brightness though. I'll be using a 84 inch screen from about a 11+ft throw distance. It sounds like that will be extremely bright. Can't you just turn down the brightness and retain the picture quality from something compared to a 100+ inch screen? Or purchase a screen with a low gain to compensate?
Why such a small screen? That's far smaller than recommended or advisable if you are sitting at about 12' away. At 12', for a typical 'center of theater' feel, your screen should be 110" diagonal. I mean, there are some LCD TVs are out there for around $2,500 which are 80" diagonal and have none of the limitations that front projection has. I would steer you away from front projection at 84" diagonal personally.

But, yes, you can be in lower power mode and calibrate light levels down a fair bit, and if you still need more, you can pick up a neutral density filter (glass) from B&H Photo and put it in front of the lens. It acts as sunglasses for bright projectors if you need it.

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post #111 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

In a good theater, the JVC has the best 2D image delivery of pretty much anyone. It's not as bright, so if you aren't using an anamorphic lens, that screen size is very large for a JVC to contend with.

The Black Diamond screens suck. They are terrible. Completely horrendous... For home theater. They are designed for board rooms, not home theaters, and they devastate the projected image. Do not ever buy or consider them unless you plan to put a projector into your family room, then pair it with a bright projector, and accept the sparkling effect that you will see from the projected image. What they do is amazing in a terrible room, but it's a large nasty band-aid that leaves a terrible scar on the image. This is acceptable when the room is nasty, but beyond worthless in a good, or even halfway decent, home theater/rec room space.

I'm thinking at the screen size you are at, the Sony may be a better choice.

Thanks for your input AVintegrated.

I too was concerned about the lumens I would get using the JVC on a 133" screen. Forgot to mention that I would be using the zoom method and not a lens. If I do go with the 40ES which screen would you suggest for a 133" diagonal in a 2.35? From what I have researched, the Carada BW seems like a good choice.

Thanks again!
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post #112 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 08:15 AM
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Why such a small screen? That's far smaller than recommended or advisable if you are sitting at about 12' away. At 12', for a typical 'center of theater' feel, your screen should be 110" diagonal. I mean, there are some LCD TVs are out there for around $2,500 which are 80" diagonal and have none of the limitations that front projection has. I would steer you away from front projection at 84" diagonal personally.

But, yes, you can be in lower power mode and calibrate light levels down a fair bit, and if you still need more, you can pick up a neutral density filter (glass) from B&H Photo and put it in front of the lens. It acts as sunglasses for bright projectors if you need it.

Thank you for the response. Screen size is limited due to space limitations. I'll be sitting about 7-8ft away. I like to have some space between myself and the rear speakers. My equipment is also behind me. I've considered a TV, however for the quality I'm looking for, I'd have to spend more much than I would for this projector/screen, and that would likely only be for a 70''. Ultimately, I want to increase screen size and get equal or better pq quality than what I currently have.
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post #113 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 08:23 AM
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So, I guess the question would be: Why get the Epson? The 5030, at this point, seems a bit overpriced. Epson had the 8350 and the 8700UB models with incredible lens shift and good optics at very different price points, but then the 3020 lost the lens shift of the 8350. The 5030 kept it, along with the higher price tag. But, now, the 5030 seems to be getting bested by the Sony at $2,500 MSRP, which should mean a bit less in the real world. So with the Epson available at $2,600 (Visual Apex) right now, it's not exactly a deal. In fact, considering the free spare lamp, the Sony may be a better deal right now and may be available for less. Though, Sony tends to be tight with street pricing.

Worth mentioning that street pricing for JVC tends to be well under MSRP and the RS46 is easily available from around $2,800 with the X35 not far off.

My personal concern is my 161" screen which I would love a RS46 for, but know the light output just won't cut it, but really thinking of a Sony model when I finish the space. 3D is secondary to my concerns or a non-issue. But, filling a screen that size is a challenge for most projectors. I was floored by how well the W1070 has been doing, but that projector is meant as a holdover until I finish my space.

But, for recommendations to others, it seems silly to go with the Epson 5030 over the Sony. LCoS looks better, it always has from what I've seen. I don't know why I would spend the same on a LCD projector. The big advantage LCD has had for years has been price, but DLP comes out way ahead (W1070) with great models and LCoS is closing in on pricing from the other end. Why buy the Epson 5030?
I see it the opposite way... You can get a brighter image from the Epson, higher native contrast, and a DI for the same price. Why would you buy the Sony?
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post #114 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 11:46 AM
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I see it the opposite way... You can get a brighter image from the Epson, higher native contrast, and a DI for the same price. Why would you buy the Sony?
Because in Geoffrey's testing, he found that the Epson wasn't actually brighter, and that the Sony actually has higher native contrast. The specifications on paper for Epson don't match up to the quality of what they give you.

Sony has a reputation of delivering projectors with bright images with excellent contrast and they have low lag times for gamers. This model hits that criteria, so while you may feel what you're saying is accurate, it turns out that it's just not the case.

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post #115 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 11:48 AM
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Thanks for your input AVintegrated.

I too was concerned about the lumens I would get using the JVC on a 133" screen. Forgot to mention that I would be using the zoom method and not a lens. If I do go with the 40ES which screen would you suggest for a 133" diagonal in a 2.35? From what I have researched, the Carada BW seems like a good choice.

Thanks again!
The Carada Criterion in BW is my first screen of choice in the vast majority of my installations. In any proper theater space, it's a no brainer unless you need acoustically transparent.

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post #116 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 11:58 AM
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The Carada Criterion in BW is my first screen of choice in the vast majority of my installations. In any proper theater space, it's a no brainer unless you need acoustically transparent.

I do like better the Classic Cinema White. Agree with you on the Black Diamond, it's the most horrible and annoying material I ever seen. I had the opportunity to get the Black Diamond half the price and even if is it for free I won't get it. Thanks God I got a sample before pull the trigger on that screen.

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post #117 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 12:38 PM
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Because in Geoffrey's testing, he found that the Epson wasn't actually brighter, and that the Sony actually has higher native contrast. The specifications on paper for Epson don't match up to the quality of what they give you.

Sony has a reputation of delivering projectors with bright images with excellent contrast and they have low lag times for gamers. This model hits that criteria, so while you may feel what you're saying is accurate, it turns out that it's just not the case.

I want to hedge by saying other review samples were brighter. Mine was the same as the Sony, but CNET, HTR, and S&V's samples were brighter than mine (but all were different brightness, even taking the different screens into account). Epson projectors are usually the brightest in the category. The native contrast ratio is roughly the same as the HW40, but the latter is a LOT quieter.
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post #118 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 01:11 PM
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Yes, that's completely correct. Even the Sony may be a waste, and you may be happier with the BenQ W1070 which is less than half the price and looks very good.
The main reason I want a Sony rather than then BenQ W1070 is the fan noise. Though I never listened to the Sony, I had a BenQ for a week before I got fed up and sold it(almost full price though so there were no major loss for me)
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post #119 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 05:54 PM
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so W1070 has is brighter, sharper, better motion and 3D. Sony has better contrast and RBE-free
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post #120 of 918 Old 05-15-2014, 06:16 PM
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so W1070 has is brighter, sharper, better motion and 3D. Sony has better contrast and RBE-free

Haha, you make a good case for the W1070. I was actually a bit disappointed about the sharpness on the Sony (convergence probably?).

But remember the calibrated contrast ratio of the Sony is much, much higher than the W1070 - around 2-3x better.
That's nothing to sneeze at and certainly will yield a better projected image under many scenarios. Films with a lot of darker content will benefit the most.
And of course on the subject there's the Sony's way better black level. That matters, too - it's probably the biggest PQ-related limitation of the W1070.

Still, in a less-than-ideal room, neither of those really matter so there's a solid case for the W1070 (and the extra brightness is useful in this scenario too).

But for a dedicated theatre room with dark coloring and proper light control, the Sony is definitely shaping up to be a fantastic choice.

So the only real question: Is it worth over 3x the price? Under the right circumstances, I'd reckon so.

BenQ W1070 Projector; Xtreamer Ultra 2 (running XBMC on OpenELEC) via Sony STR-DH540 AVR with Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS SE 5.1 Audio. MediaBrowser3 for Mobile Streaming.

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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP
Gear in this thread - VPL-HW40ES by PriceGrabber.com

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