Affordable Home Theater LED Projector for 125" screen - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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That PJD5533 will be outputting about 550-675lumens on a fresh bulb, that'll drop to around 350lm after roughly 1500+hours and about 20% less in eco-mode. By that point the LED PJ will be the brighter unit until you fork over $150-200 for a new lamp to have the 5533 pull slightly ahead in brightness. Contrast will be similar (around 1000:1) with both.


The ViewSonic PJD5533w has 3,000 ANSI lumens. Is it not brighter than 550 lumens?

How about 15000:1 contrast ratio compared to 2000:1 from AAXA?
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post #32 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 07:22 PM
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The ViewSonic PJD5533w has 3,000 ANSI lumens. Is it not brighter than 550 lumens?

How about 15000:1 contrast ratio compared to 2000:1 from AAXA?
The viewsonic stated lumens is the inflated result of a really green looking white. The RGBCYW(or similar) colorwheel means by the time you get a roughly balanced and decent looking picture out of the 5533, it'll only be putting out around 550-675lm. Likewise the 550lm rating for the Aaxa is only stretched peak-white, and a balanced decent looking image will be around 400lm.
If the viewsonic used an RGBRGB colorwheel, it would ironically list as a lower brightness while outputting HIGHER calibrated brightness AND practically 2X the contrast.

Manufacturer contrast ratings are complete BS and can be inflated as much as 100X real measurements. They aren't policed or controlled measurements so they are literally allowed to list any number they want. Measured results show both these projectors around 1000:1 native on/off contrast once the picture has been at least roughly calibrated.
The only ways to improve those contrast numbers involve a dimmer image, higher offset, or more expensive DMD.

When I mention calibration, I'm talking about simple visual changes that anyone with eyes can make. Nothing intensive, just simple tweaks to get an image that isn't green-tinted or suffering a 2:1 white/color imbalance.

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post #33 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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The viewsonic stated lumens is the inflated result of a really green looking white. The RGBCYW(or similar) colorwheel means by the time you get a roughly balanced and decent looking picture out of the 5533, it'll only be putting out around 550-675lm. Likewise the 550lm rating for the Aaxa is only stretched peak-white, and a balanced decent looking image will be around 400lm.

Manufacturer contrast ratings are complete BS and can be inflated as much as 100X real measurements. They aren't policed or controlled measurements so they are literally allowed to list any number they want. Measured results show both these projectors around 1000:1 native on/off contrast once the picture has been at least roughly calibrated.
The only ways to improve those contrast numbers involve a dimmer image, higher offset, or more expensive DMD.

In other words every cheap LED based PJ could beat any cheap Lamp based PJ in brightness and contrast.

If so why they do not advertise with higher numbers for brightness or specially contrast ratio where these numbers aren't policed or controlled measurements?
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post #34 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 09:02 PM
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Cheap Viewsonic (SVGA) verses a Sharp 70 inch (projector is on it's lowest setting with 500 hours on the lamp and the image is on a plain off white wall)

 

 

I ceiling mounted ($24 for mount) a Viewsonic 5533 (he paid $405 new) for a co-worker with no problems, and I had my Viewsonic 5134 (SVGA) mounted until I replaced it with a 1080p projector.

 

I have no issues with the Viewsonic and actually prefer the 3d over my Epson HC2000.

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post #35 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 09:07 PM
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In other words every cheap LED based PJ could beat any cheap Lamp based PJ in brightness and contrast.

If so why they do not advertise with higher numbers for brightness or specially contrast ratio where these numbers aren't policed or controlled measurements?
Not beat, but match contrast for non-RGBRGB DLPs and roughly match brightness (lose, then beat after 1000-1500hrs). They lose to the brightness of RGBRGB DLPs and any decent LCD, they also lose to contrast of RGBRGB DLPs but beat most LCDs under $1500.

They don't advertise higher brightness because they can't squeeze out much extra brightness from green nor overlapping. As for contrast (where lies are totally allowed) some of the LG models are advertising anywhere from 15,000:1-100,000:1 while only getting 900:1-1,500:1. Aaxa just isn't quite as big a liar as most...yet..

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post #36 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 09:14 PM
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Cheap Viewsonic (SVGA) verses a Sharp 70 inch (projector is on it's lowest setting with 500 hours on the lamp and the image is on a plain off white wall)


I ceiling mounted ($24 for mount) a Viewsonic 5533 (he paid $405 new) for a co-worker with no problems, and I had my Viewsonic 5134 (SVGA) mounted until I replaced it with a 1080p projector.

I have no issues with the Viewsonic and actually prefer the 3d over my Epson HC2000.
I'm not calling the 5533 a bad projector in any way. I'm just saying that anyone enjoying its picture will most likely be equally impressed with the picture of any decent LED DLP measuring around 400lumens. That level of brightness and contrast, while lower than any RGBRGB DLP, is still plenty for a good looking image and enough to fill most screens in suitably darkened rooms.

DLP 3D is pretty impossible to beat too.

Mid/high APL stuff is able to combat a surprising amount of light, even using an LED or dimmer lamp-DLP.

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post #37 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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- Is there any other lamp based projector with RGBRGB in this price range?

- I was wondering why AAXA for the new Android with more brightness (550 lumens) says "capable of projecting a 140" screen" while the old version of Showtime 3D with less brightness (450 lumens) is capable of projecting a 160" screen".

Why is that?
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post #38 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by thxbest View Post

- Is there any other lamp based projector with RGBRGB in this price range?

- I was wondering why AAXA for the new Android with more brightness (550 lumens) says "capable of projecting a 140" screen" while the old version of Showtime 3D with less brightness (450 lumens) is capable of projecting a 160" screen".

Why is that?
Cheapest RGBRGB models are around $750+ during bargains and for certain parts of the world that get some extra models that aren't widely available. Otherwise, used models are an option. Sadly, many use 250-300watt lamps and charge around $300 for replacements. The brightness isn't much of an issue as nothing beats the sun and dim PJs work really well in darker rooms, but higher real/measured native on/off contrast is always nice to have.

The largest projected image listed is usually a rough estimate that the manufacturer believes will still be bright enough to look good. In real-life that maximum size mostly depends on the viewers' preferences, the room, and gamma options.

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post #39 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 09:59 PM
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Can't believe I missed it, but that 5533 will probably be the cheapest option with good 3D support.

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post #40 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 11:15 PM
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Which one do you have?
I have a P300 that I bought about a year ago. I did some research and found that Aaxa was one of the few brands that was available (at that time) selling LED PJs that had native 720p, 1080downconverting HDMI and every model had a standard audio-output. They were also available through a store with a free return policy. It's fairly plain, it's fan isn't really quiet and it's built-in speaker is terrible, but that's all very common and I knew it going in. Later as I bought and tried more models out I slowly realized how good the p300 actually was. Its contrast beats anything non-RGB or LCD under $1500 and it's low brightness is still amazingly capable in a dark room. It's video is very smooth and it doesn't suffer the image artifact and noise issues that I've witnessed on models (both lamp and LED) costing twice as much.

The LG PA75u was one of the few projectors (especially LED) offering a coaxial TV tuner, and I wanted to try a brighter model and see what the ridiculous contrast claim was about. Found out that it and other bright models actually had slightly worse contrast than the p300, but was happily surprised by how quiet the fans were and how good the built-in speaker was. I discovered it's 3D is very friendly and the overall software features were pretty nice. I continued (continue?) to try other models as well as some serious binge reading, but I've mostly been disappointed. The Optoma hd131xe has been the least disappointing so far, but it still fell pretty short..even in the areas that should've been its strengths.

The bright LCDs have really lousy contrast and visible pixel gaps, the cheapest DLPs can have big pixel gaps too and aren't particularly bright, the better (but still not RGB) DLPs still aren't especially bright and still don't offer noticeably better contrast, the other LED models aren't any brighter and don't improve contrast enough but cost more while some have noise and artifacts in their video. The cheapest RGB DLP is no longer sold anywhere near me with a good return, and it appears to have dust problems from bad light-path sealing. The next cheapest RGB DLP is $1800. The LED model with measured improved contrast is $1200 and the improvement is small-ish (though enough to compete decently with the RGBRGB w1070).
The only markedly better projectors cost 2X-3X as much, or are used, or aren't available in the w1070's case.

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post #41 of 56 Old 04-30-2014, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you seen the Optoma ML 500 or 550 as well?
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post #42 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 03:50 AM
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I've read enough about them to know what parts they are using, but I think they don't have an audio-out of any kind so I never bought one.
Brushed up a bit; the 500 has no audio-out, but the 550 has everything. The 3D support is very limited just like the old 3D Showtime..so I'd skip them if you need 3D, otherwise very competitive at its price.

I'd be curious to check the size and weight of the ml550 against the p450 because the larger/heavier one is more likely to have less fan noise.

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post #43 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 04:34 AM
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With your 3D situation, it might be worth your while to make a new thread asking specifically if there's a good program/emitter combo that can make any DLP create a 3D image from PC. It would likely run $100-200 for the setup, but you could then use any DLP PJ that you wanted. Then again for the extra price you could probably just pick up the LG PA75u/PA77u instead and save some money being able to use cheaper DLPlink glasses. But there might be a very inexpensive program/emitter combo too.
That PJD5533 might be a good option too, its a lamp-based, but should last several years before you'll need to replace the bulb and it has solid 3D I believe.

Was the 3D a strong want or more a passing curiosity?

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post #44 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 06:50 AM
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I really wanted an LED projector after getting "hooked" with a cheap Viewsonic (DLP) last September, but some of the reviews (LG focus issues; others - heat/quality issues) were not that good, so I went with the Epson LCD ($99 replacement lamp).  My thoughts on the two: DLP is "sharper" but colors are "off" and I can't get it "perfect".  LCD (the Epson)is an okay image and the colors are good...black levels "not very good" and 3D is just okay.

 

I use mine like a tv with 500 hours on the Viewsonic (usually a 92 inch image) since September and 1000 on the Epson (169 inch image) since late November, so an LED with a 20,000 hour "lamp" life and a 200 inch (possible) image would be perfect for me...but, I tend to go with Amazon reviews on products when I can't find enough "bing" sample videos.  (Of course, this backfired on my sound system and I wound up "unhappy".)  On brightness/light output for both projectors, it is almost too much even dialed all the way down.

 

With the Viewsonic, dust in the lens seems to be the biggest issue (along with light tunnel "flaking" paint on the 7820). I have dust in my lens that does not impact the image (so far).  If the lamp dies, I will just throw the projector ($349) away (get something new) rather than get a new bulb ($200 or more).

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post #45 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 07:17 AM
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The Optoma ML550 at bestbuy is $450. If you don't need a bunch of smart/wireless features or 3D, it's the one to check out right now as bestbuy has a painless/free return policy. I haven't seen anything cheaper than that for the bright LED units besides an AcerK132 that doesn't have an audio-out for around $400.

I bought my LG from bestbuy so I'd have a couple weeks to return it if I didn't like it or if it had issues. I haven't had problems with uneven focus, but I have noticed it runs out of focus distance much faster than any other. The wheel stops around 110-120" and anything bigger than that will have a softer look to it, not bad/blurry but definitely soft.

I also noticed Walmart has just started selling the w1070/1080, so I CAN get one now. Unfortunately they're charging around $100 more for them than Benq. Still a return ship+restocking to Benq would cost that much or more and Walmart's return period is longer which may help if it gets dust issues.

I've used the p300 and LG outside on the lawn in the dew, in the dusty garage, and at places with a lot of pet hair. I haven't had any heat, dust, or any other problems yet. I did have an all-metal USB stick short-out and fry itself inside the LG at a friend's place. The stick was too hot to touch for a solid 10minutes and I had to pull it by the lanyard. I exchanged the faulty USB with a different one and it's never gotten more than a little warm (can hold the metal end to my lip) after hours of playing, so I'm sure it was something wrong with the stick. Or the PJ doesn't like you leaving a USB plugged in when you use the HDMI port that's right above it. It gave me a warning message right when it stopped working right, but I ignored it thinking it was something else and left it in for at least an hour. The thing works fine after having a shorted USB cook its port AND it later took a good 5ft fall onto a China bowl which only give it a tiny scratch and broke a little plastic tab that I removed to make sure it wouldn't someday get sucked through a fan. I have a few hundred hours on the LG and over 1000 on the p300 which I've fallen asleep with it on a few times.

I don't need LED for the kids..I need it for my own apparent sense of projector adventure, stupidity and bad luck.

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post #46 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Was the 3D a strong want or more a passing curiosity?

Yes. I think using a PC for 3D is a good option. I have a PC with AMD Radeon HD6450 Video card and PowerDVD 14, so 3D is not a problem with a 3D ready projector.

Acer K132 and Optoma ML550 look good for my need. They are from spec. similar. Acer has better price I think. Which one is the better choice?

Are there any other brands that are similar from spec. and price to AcerK132 and ML550?
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post #47 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 10:38 AM
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There are several with similar specs, but those two are the cheapest by $50-200, so they are the best bargains. The Acer doesn't have a sound output which will be a problem if your computer doesn't separate sound from HDMI (many don't) so try plugging your PC into an HDMI TV and using the 1/8" (or any other available) sound output on your PC to see if they still work. If your computer only puts sound through HDMI (not anything else) when HDMI is being used and you can't separate the sound, I'd very strongly suggest going with the ML550 instead.

You don't want to have to rely on the built-in PJ speakers. Even good ones aren't nearly as good as a simple $25-40 external set (or headphones), and neither the Acer nor the ML550 have good ones.

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post #48 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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The Acer K132 brightness is rated @ 600 lumens

http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/MR.JGN11.00J

Some websites say 500 lumens. How much lumens does it have actually? 500 or 600?
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post #49 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 01:47 PM
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It won't actually be putting out even 500 (closer to 400), but it should be as bright as anything out right now in the under $2000 LED crowd.

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post #50 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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How about ViewSonic PLED-W500?
It's LED with 500 lumens and 6000:1 contrast.

Do you know this one?
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post #51 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 09:12 PM
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How about ViewSonic PLED-W500?
It's LED with 500 lumens and 6000:1 contrast.

Do you know this one?


It's more of the same, puts out around 400 measured lumens and around 1000:1 measured contrast, BUT it also is reported to suffer from occasional motion artifacts and particularly soft focus. It also has a very slow strobe speed for its LEDs which causes it to show RBE for those sensitive, something the ML550 does NOT suffer from. It was also a bit more expensive, though I'm not sure what it costs presently.


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post #52 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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It's more of the same, puts out around 400 measured lumens and around 1000:1 measured contrast, BUT it also is reported to suffer from occasional motion artifacts and particularly soft focus. It also has a very slow strobe speed for its LEDs which causes it to show RBE for those sensitive, something the ML550 does NOT suffer from. It was also a bit more expensive, though I'm not sure what it costs presently.

There is one used in ebay for $285 without remote. Is it a good deal?
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post #53 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 09:25 PM
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I'm not sure if these will scare or attract, but I took some pictures of an LED projector on the garage-front. The garage is not really white, nor is it clean, but it's close enough to have some fun with. Perhaps one day I will paint the garage for higher gain. :D

 

The first is about a 220" diagonal and the second is maybe 130". I can't imagine home screens getting much bigger than 220".

 

Now I'd like you to guess how many lumens this is.

Is it the 400-ish lumen output of something along the lines of the AcerK132, ML550, or PA75u?

Nope.

Is it the roughly 130lumens of the P300?

Getting closer.

 

This IS the P300, not plugged in, but using a built-in rechargeable battery about the size of a typical 9volt that's good for 60minutes of play. That is 90-ish lumens on an off-white/low-gain 220" diagonal.


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post #54 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 09:32 PM
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There is one used in ebay for $285 without remote. Is it a good deal?


I wouldn't get it. They'll probably charge you a ridiculous amount to get a new remote (which you might need to change certain settings..yep they do that sometimes). And the video quality of it sounded like it was oddly bad. I don't think it's worth it.

 

Do you have a BestBuy near you? or a Walmart?


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post #55 of 56 Old 05-01-2014, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have a BestBuy near you? or a Walmart?

Yes, we have Walmart super center but they do not sell any projectors.

How much is the remote for PLED-W500? Does it work with universal remote too?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ViewSonic-PLED-W500-Portable-LED-Projector-WXGA-HDMI-VGA-3D-SD-/310943956447?pt=US_Video_Projectors&hash=item4865b43ddf
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post #56 of 56 Old 05-02-2014, 03:11 AM
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I've only heard of universal remote attempts ending in failure with the little LED PJs. I'm guessing they'll charge $20-40 plus shipping..if you can even order one. What's the return policy on used EBay items if it turns out that the video quality is bad?

The walmart near you DOES sell projectors; it sells them online only, with free shipping to store (and usually to home, if you prefer) and a free 30-90day return policy to the store. BestBuy does the same except with a 15day return to store and they'll often price-match Amazon if you ask.

A used PJ missing the remote might also be missing its lens-cap, PC and RCA adapter, wall-plug, carrying case..BUT that may not be a big problem to you, I'd just make sure you won't be stuck with it in case you don't like it. I've never heard of a DLP having motion artifacts before, so I'm a bit worried.

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