If you're a big gamer, then you pretty much have to go DLP right ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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So, the way I understand it, there are several different projection technologies. You have DLP, LCD and LCOS (or SXRD) or whatever it's called. If you really want that film look, and you're a HUGE movie buff, then you want LCOS or SXRD right ? ( Sony and JVC ). If you want good general purpose, you go LCD. If you're a big time gamer, then you have to go DLP right ?

I mean obviously these are generalizations, but it seems that DLP provides extreme sharpness and clarity, that crispness that makes video games look so much better. LCOS has that great black level and shadow detail, that's so important for good movie watching. Not really sure the big benefits of LCD, other than usually have lots of lens shift and ease of bouncing back and forth from 16:9 to 2.35:1 .


I know there are some very, very, very good projectors that aren't DLP, and video games would still look great on those projectors, but if you really want that super crisp, that super well defined gaming image, you have to go DLP right ?
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post #2 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 09:25 AM
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DLP has the fastest response time of any technology. Low lag times, and fast chip response times are the big callings of DLP. The use of a single chip means that you can get a really sharp image without there being a ton of expense, so you get added sharpness for similar, or less money. But, it's the response time of DLP that is what sells it. Several LCD projectors have gaming modes which decrease lag time considerably, but it does give up some sharpness to the image in doing so. So, if you aren't a big time gamer, and you suffer from RBE, then the LCD models offer some very good gaming. But, the Rainbow Effect (RBE) caused by DLP for some people is a very serious issue that DLP manufacturers still haven't addressed in any serious manner. This is a huge reason not to use DLP at all for quite a few people. I think far more than what Texas Instruments would lead most to believe. With bigger screens and brighter projectors and higher contrast ratios, RBE seems to be exacerbated. I consider myself only somewhat RBE sensitive, but I see it regularly on my W1070. I live with it, but it still is distracting when I'm watching a movie.

There is a lot of love for the W1070, and for good reason. The gaming is good, the colors are good, the movie watching is good. But, Epson has the 2030 which also has a good image. It's just not quite as sharp and doesn't have the response time. On the other hand, it's a 3-chip design for similar price and has $99 factory original replacement lamps. Certainly nothing wrong with that. As well, the gaming mode offers a reasonably fast lag time with a slight drop in image resolution. Not ideal, but better for many that RBE.

LCoS is for movie watchers IMO. You can do the rest on it, but for just the best movie experience, it's the way to go. Well, except for 3-chip DLP which is still stupid expensive. biggrin.gif


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post #3 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 11:45 AM
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Anthony1 - you and I appear to be on the same quest to find a projector that performs well with gaming (low lag), PC and movies (black levels). I'm willing to spend up to $4-5k on such a beast...

I have a completely light controlled room that's about to get drywall soon, so I'm following these threads with interest...

Anyone have a recommendation on a solid movie projector with low lag under $4K?

...just my $.02 - GST included.
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 11:57 AM
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I'm probably more sensitive to rainbows than most, but I rarely find them a distraction when gaming on a dlp, even with slower 4x color-wheel speeds. I suspect it's because playing a game is a much more active viewing experience; you're not laid back analyzing/scrutinizing the PQ as much, you're focused on the game. Cutscenes are about the only time I notice them with PS3 gaming.

I gamed using a Sony SXRD FP for years. I put thousands of hours on the machine with multiple PS3s (first gen experienced the YLOD after a few years). I don't know about PS4 games yet - waiting for more games or a better deal than full SRP, probably get a package bundle this fall - but PS3 games have a rather finite resolution, much more so than CG animated movies, so you're not going to see much difference in terms of detail between DLP and SXRD, unless one machine does a better job of deinterlacing/scaling than another, as most games PS3 games are 720p, rather poorly converted, and overcompressed. I'd say the only material you're likely to see more of a resolution difference from will be 1080p BDs of live-action films. Though, I wouldn't call the difference with movies any kind of profound, at least not with SXRD. SXRD may be softer, but it's not "soft" by my definition, unless the panels are severely misalligned. Basic LCD might be different, but I can't remember spending enough time with any LCD FP to qualify any kind of comparison there.

As for lag, the only lag I've every been bothered by while gaming was with online multiplayer and the rather unreliable DSL internet service from windstream. For a couple years we had a severe problem with losing packets and infrequently non-existent speeds. They finally upgraded their equipment, and fixed most of that, but they've still oversold the service in our area, so our connection still randomly drops out for a few minutes, almost daily. With single-player, lipsync issues have never been a problem with either of my last two Sony SXRDs or my current Mitsubishi DLP - which I don't even use the game mode for to decrease latency - so I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about regarding display lag.

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post #5 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post

Anthony1 - you and I appear to be on the same quest to find a projector that performs well with gaming (low lag), PC and movies (black levels). I'm willing to spend up to $4-5k on such a beast...

I have a completely light controlled room that's about to get drywall soon, so I'm following these threads with interest...

Anyone have a recommendation on a solid movie projector with low lag under $4K?

DLP makes for very capable movie projectors. It's the same techology you're likely seeing in any modern cinema that isn't still using film. Every technology and every make projector is going to do some things worse and some things better than others. Just because one DLP model or one SXRD model is better at this or that doesn't necessarily mean they all are. With a well designed machine, it's not going to feel like much of a compromise in terms of PQ, regardless of which tech you choose. My previous two SXRDs were far more pricey and overally better built than my current DLP. They were much more flexible to install, though much heavier to hang too. But the DLP I'm using now definitely produces the overall superior image. And so far nobody who's been over had noticed rainbows or any other adverst DLP effects, other than me. I had a surprisingly severe reaction adapting to DLP again - had to take a Goodies powder almost every night I used it - but it only took me about a month for my brain to acclimate.

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post #6 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post

Anthony1 - you and I appear to be on the same quest to find a projector that performs well with gaming (low lag), PC and movies (black levels). I'm willing to spend up to $4-5k on such a beast...

I have a completely light controlled room that's about to get drywall soon, so I'm following these threads with interest...

The only way that I would go into the 4 or 5 grand range, would be if there was a 4K projector at that price. ( I know Sony has one thats about 7K) I'm starting to think going with a low cost leader like the BenQ W1070 is the right idea. It might not do everything I need it to do, but it appears to be the best bang for the buck projector on the market, and a strong choice for gamers. I can probably use it for a few years and then get a 4K unit in the 5 grand range that is really, really good.
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post

Anthony1 - you and I appear to be on the same quest to find a projector that performs well with gaming (low lag), PC and movies (black levels). I'm willing to spend up to $4-5k on such a beast...

I have a completely light controlled room that's about to get drywall soon, so I'm following these threads with interest...

Anyone have a recommendation on a solid movie projector with low lag under $4K?

Sony HW55ES. I don't think there is a another in your price range. Maybe the Panasonic AE8000.


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post #8 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

The only way that I would go into the 4 or 5 grand range, would be if there was a 4K projector at that price. ( I know Sony has one thats about 7K) I'm starting to think going with a low cost leader like the BenQ W1070 is the right idea. It might not do everything I need it to do, but it appears to be the best bang for the buck projector on the market, and a strong choice for gamers. I can probably use it for a few years and then get a 4K unit in the 5 grand range that is really, really good.

I'd prefer the $2500 range or less as well...just saying I'm willing to pay for the right low-lag awesome PQ projector...

...Unfortunately the W1070 doesn't have the throw distance or lens shift flexibility I need (projector 8" above top of 138" diag. 16:9 screen @ 16')...

I thought I found a winner with the BenQ then I read " W7500 does not have any lag-reducing features such as Game mode or Fast processing, so the stock image modes are as fast as it gets. These measured 61.7 milliseconds, or 3.7 frames at 60 frames per second. This is snappy enough that an audio delay circuit isn't strictly necessary (though still recommended), but sluggish enough that hardcore gamers will want to find a different projector to fill their needs." I'm not hardcore....but close enough that it would kill me to dislike gaming in the theater because of lag....

The search continues....

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post #9 of 19 Old 05-01-2014, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Sony HW55ES. I don't think there is a another in your price range. Maybe the Panasonic AE8000.

Interesting--thanks!....I notice the Panny AE8000 first shipped 18 months ago...is there an update expected?

...just my $.02 - GST included.
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post #10 of 19 Old 05-02-2014, 07:12 AM
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Interesting--thanks!....I notice the Panny AE8000 first shipped 18 months ago...is there an update expected?

I would expect an update later on this year...

Also in your $2500 range you might want to check with AVS on B-Stock HW50ES. I persnoally use that one and I game on mine and it's excellent. It is one of the better all around projectors, so if you enjoy movies, sports, and gaming, there honestly isn't a better choice IMO at this price range... I am not sure what the warranty is on B Stock but new they come with 3 years warranty and a free bulb.


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post #11 of 19 Old 05-02-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

I would expect an update later on this year...

Also in your $2500 range you might want to check with AVS on B-Stock HW50ES. I persnoally use that one and I game on mine and it's excellent. It is one of the better all around projectors, so if you enjoy movies, sports, and gaming, there honestly isn't a better choice IMO at this price range... I am not sure what the warranty is on B Stock but new they come with 3 years warranty and a free bulb.

Hmmm...that Sony may be the winner. Gaming mode is fast enough, and reviews look quite good on PQ...Has enough install flexibility to suit..... Is it also due for an update? (I'm still in construction, install planned in August). As I said, I don't mind paying more for the right unit, so the new price on that projector is no problem.... *begins reading official HW50ES thread*....

Thanks!

...just my $.02 - GST included.
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-02-2014, 10:32 AM
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Hmmm...that Sony may be the winner. Gaming mode is fast enough, and reviews look quite good on PQ...Has enough install flexibility to suit..... Is it also due for an update? (I'm still in construction, install planned in August). As I said, I don't mind paying more for the right unit, so the new price on that projector is no problem.... *begins reading official HW50ES thread*....

Thanks!

You are likely to have refreshes on most projectors yearly..So you would likely be able to get the new models late this year/early next year.


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post #13 of 19 Old 05-02-2014, 11:33 AM
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I love my w1070 for xbox, no issues at all.


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post #14 of 19 Old 05-03-2014, 03:53 AM
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I'm currently gaming on a sony 55es (cod ghosts) and am not having any issues. (1.83 kd). I was on an epson 1080ub before that with no problems either. I would say both of them are excellent for gaming and movies.


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post #15 of 19 Old 05-03-2014, 01:27 PM
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I'm currently gaming on a sony 55es (cod ghosts) and am not having any issues. (1.83 kd). I was on an epson 1080ub before that with no problems either. I would say both of them are excellent for gaming and movies.

Kd has nothing to do with lag or how good you are. Every person plays differently.


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post #16 of 19 Old 05-03-2014, 06:03 PM
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Kd has nothing to do with lag or how good you are. Every person plays differently.

Wasn't trying to say I was good, just that I was experiencing no lag in an fps game. If I had bad lag my kd would suck even more lol.


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post #17 of 19 Old 05-04-2014, 06:20 PM
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Wasn't trying to say I was good, just that I was experiencing no lag in an fps game. If I had bad lag my kd would suck even more lol.

Ok, lol.


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post #18 of 19 Old 05-05-2014, 04:26 AM
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Ok, lol.

By the way, I'm a camping b!tch! lol


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post #19 of 19 Old 05-05-2014, 04:44 AM
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By the way, I'm a camping b!tch! lol


You made my day, lol. That's to funny.


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